It's about damn time. The internet - as in, the major "content machines" of the web, your Facebooks, your X née Twitters, your TikToks, and good lord your Instagrams - they're basically X-Ray...
It's about damn time.
The internet - as in, the major "content machines" of the web, your Facebooks, your X née Twitters, your TikToks, and good lord your Instagrams - they're basically X-Ray machines for your digital self. They learn. They analyse, they know you better than you know yourself if you use them for long enough - and in a most insidious twist, they use that to keep you there.
We Tildes users might be all high and mighty because we have our little island of Web 1-style forum culture, but let's not mince words. You are not immune to propaganda. Nobody is, and even if you think you're pretty balanced and open-minded when it comes to the content you consume online, if the algorithm controllers of the world suddenly decided you had to buy a product, or vote for a party, they could do it. With shocking success.
Really proud to be an EU citizen. Making machine learning driven content delivery opt-out is probably not something most people will do, but it's good to see that at least someone in some way recognises the threat these systems can pose to our society - even if they don't.
How is it the EU has politicians that seem to care about their citizens more than corporate paychecks? I sadly don't see this ever happening in the USA.
How is it the EU has politicians that seem to care about their citizens more than corporate paychecks? I sadly don't see this ever happening in the USA.
It's not that Europe is all that good, it's that the American government has been completely captured by corporations. It wasn't that long ago that the US regularly enforced anti trust laws. But...
It's not that Europe is all that good, it's that the American government has been completely captured by corporations. It wasn't that long ago that the US regularly enforced anti trust laws. But little by little, everything's been eroded.
It's also that Europe does not have much of that kind of big tech as most of it is from the States. So naturally they hold less influence on this side of the pond.
It's also that Europe does not have much of that kind of big tech as most of it is from the States. So naturally they hold less influence on this side of the pond.
We are currently in a public comment period regarding proposed new antitrust enforcement processes and guidelines that would be stricter. I would encourage US citizens to comment and spread the...
Campaign financing is heavily regulated in most european places when compared to the US. So "business" as a collective actor, but also indiviudal businesses, have less influence on the electoral...
Campaign financing is heavily regulated in most european places when compared to the US. So "business" as a collective actor, but also indiviudal businesses, have less influence on the electoral process - at least in terms of direct material support for one candidate over another.
Equally important to me seems the fact that these are not european companies. The pay taxes (albeit much too little) in Europe, but their economic power is small compared to their standing in the US where they also employ a decent amount of people.
Also, US tech companies are not automatically viable career options for european politicians after their time in office. I think Nick Clegg burnt his name in european political circles when he joined Facebook a while back... Becoming part of GAFAM means joining the other side in many different ways.
Citizens United in my humble opinion one of if not the worst supreme Court decisions in my lifetime. Essentially it allows corporations, Unions and other groups to donate unlimited funds to...
Citizens United in my humble opinion one of if not the worst piece of legislation passed supreme Court decisions in my lifetime.
Essentially it allows corporations, Unions and other groups to donate unlimited funds to elections. It is absolutely given more power to the wealthiest and injected unknown millions if not billions of dollars from dubious world actors into our elections through super PACs.
If I had three wishes for the US, overturning Citizens United would likely be on the top of the list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC Citizen's United was a Supreme Court decision. But I 100 percent agree that it should be directly overturned and also congress should pass laws...
Citizen's United was a Supreme Court decision. But I 100 percent agree that it should be directly overturned and also congress should pass laws making it harder for courts to reach the conclusion they did. If none of that works, a Constitutional amendment to overturn the decision. Something needs to change on this issue.
EU citizens don't have much of a say in these things. My guess is that this is happening because Big Tech(tm) is mostly US based and these regulations help with content control and taxing by fines.
Really proud to be an EU citizen. Making machine learning driven content delivery opt-out is probably not something most people will do, but it's good to see that at least someone in some way recognizes the threat these systems can pose to our society - even if they don't.
EU citizens don't have much of a say in these things. My guess is that this is happening because Big Tech(tm) is mostly US based and these regulations help with content control and taxing by fines.
It’s frankly incorrect if you ask me. Some people here in the EU don’t like to believe this due to the Commission and Council(s) being seemingly unelected bodies, but this is not the case. Also,...
It’s frankly incorrect if you ask me.
Some people here in the EU don’t like to believe this due to the Commission and Council(s) being seemingly unelected bodies, but this is not the case.
Also, the EU parliament has its directly voted for (!) members that form the entity representing the biggest democratic process (!) globally.
EU citizens very much have a say on these things, even if to some, it may not always feel like so.
PS. The EU being the best thing this continent has ever managed to do internationally does not mean it is perfectly untouchable and error-free. Every time I hear about new EU Commission plans to ban E2E encryption and implement chat control/monitoring basically all over the net I have to barf.
It came out rather jaded from my side. Thanks from the explanation. You are right. I also think the EU is a good thing in general and that this measure is positive. To me this looks like a measure...
It came out rather jaded from my side. Thanks from the explanation. You are right.
I also think the EU is a good thing in general and that this measure is positive. To me this looks like a measure against US companies that profit from EU citizens without properly paying for it (and also manipulating opinion), rather than a fight for privacy. As you have already mentioned, EU has a different view on privacy when they do the spying.
Max Fisher's book the Chaos Machine is one source describing harm that has already been done by these algorithms and how and why they work the way they do.
Max Fisher's book the Chaos Machine is one source describing harm that has already been done by these algorithms and how and why they work the way they do.
All of the other answers, agree ... but also, Max Shrems and NOYB have played a large role in driving the EU in this direction. Plus, I think the Snowden revelations had a more lasting impact over...
All of the other answers, agree ... but also, Max Shrems and NOYB have played a large role in driving the EU in this direction. Plus, I think the Snowden revelations had a more lasting impact over here. US spy agency spying on its own people? Meh, sounds American ... but US spy agency eavesdropping on Angela Merkel's personal cell phone? Even if it (maybe) didn't actually happen, I think the residue of it is still strong over here.
I've found some interesting discourse amongst tech journalists about how despite the moral outcry, people prefer algorithmic feeds... and I don't disagree. An aspect of the addictive nature is...
I've found some interesting discourse amongst tech journalists about how despite the moral outcry, people prefer algorithmic feeds... and I don't disagree. An aspect of the addictive nature is that it is good.
But like, that's the point. I know it's bad for me, and the best way to be rid of an addictive thing is to have be able to turn it off, especially selectively when other aspects of the service are useful (for instance, Instagram is great for keeping up with my friends, but I'd like the algorithm to away from any primary feeds).
"Algorithmic" can also mean anything. I'd like an algorithm on my Mastodon feed that boosts posts from people I personally curated or who don't post often, or with some hashtags, etc. Like you...
"Algorithmic" can also mean anything. I'd like an algorithm on my Mastodon feed that boosts posts from people I personally curated or who don't post often, or with some hashtags, etc.
Like you said, the algorithms we have now are junk food. Sure I'd eat that every day if that wasn't awful for my health.
At least now the services are motivated not to make their algorithms too shitty. Because when they fill it with too much advertsing and other unwanted rubbish, people can just opt out from that....
At least now the services are motivated not to make their algorithms too shitty. Because when they fill it with too much advertsing and other unwanted rubbish, people can just opt out from that. Previously you had to ditch the whole service and your accumulated network there, which is of course much harder.
Finally! I don't think this will be enough for me to get back on Facebook (really, the only reason I haven't deleted my account yet is that the fb groups can genuinely be useful), but it will make...
Instead, people can choose to view content only from people they follow, starting with the newest posts.
Finally! I don't think this will be enough for me to get back on Facebook (really, the only reason I haven't deleted my account yet is that the fb groups can genuinely be useful), but it will make using Instagram much less frustrating. I just want to know what my friends are up to without seeing a bunch of random stuff.
I just wish they cracked down on misinformation sharing as well. It's good that it will be easier to report misinformation and rule breaking, but if nothing is done about it in the end, it doesn't really make a difference.
Getting a regular reverse-chronological feed on Facebook would be nice, and so would being able to turn off some recommendations on YouTube and have them stay off. But these seem like minor UI...
Getting a regular reverse-chronological feed on Facebook would be nice, and so would being able to turn off some recommendations on YouTube and have them stay off.
But these seem like minor UI improvements? I expect that conversation won’t improve much. Social media will be almost as addictive as before and the discourse won’t improve, because “algorithms” were never the problem. People want to talk about UFO’s or whatever. They get into arguments. It happens here too.
It’s also possible for regulations to make websites worse, like happened with cookie disclosures. We’ll see what the result is this time.
It's about damn time.
The internet - as in, the major "content machines" of the web, your Facebooks, your X née Twitters, your TikToks, and good lord your Instagrams - they're basically X-Ray machines for your digital self. They learn. They analyse, they know you better than you know yourself if you use them for long enough - and in a most insidious twist, they use that to keep you there.
We Tildes users might be all high and mighty because we have our little island of Web 1-style forum culture, but let's not mince words. You are not immune to propaganda. Nobody is, and even if you think you're pretty balanced and open-minded when it comes to the content you consume online, if the algorithm controllers of the world suddenly decided you had to buy a product, or vote for a party, they could do it. With shocking success.
Really proud to be an EU citizen. Making machine learning driven content delivery opt-out is probably not something most people will do, but it's good to see that at least someone in some way recognises the threat these systems can pose to our society - even if they don't.
Yet.
How is it the EU has politicians that seem to care about their citizens more than corporate paychecks? I sadly don't see this ever happening in the USA.
It's not that Europe is all that good, it's that the American government has been completely captured by corporations. It wasn't that long ago that the US regularly enforced anti trust laws. But little by little, everything's been eroded.
It's also that Europe does not have much of that kind of big tech as most of it is from the States. So naturally they hold less influence on this side of the pond.
We are currently in a public comment period regarding proposed new antitrust enforcement processes and guidelines that would be stricter. I would encourage US citizens to comment and spread the word. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/07/ftc-doj-seek-comment-draft-merger-guidelines
Campaign financing is heavily regulated in most european places when compared to the US. So "business" as a collective actor, but also indiviudal businesses, have less influence on the electoral process - at least in terms of direct material support for one candidate over another.
Equally important to me seems the fact that these are not european companies. The pay taxes (albeit much too little) in Europe, but their economic power is small compared to their standing in the US where they also employ a decent amount of people.
Also, US tech companies are not automatically viable career options for european politicians after their time in office. I think Nick Clegg burnt his name in european political circles when he joined Facebook a while back... Becoming part of GAFAM means joining the other side in many different ways.
Citizens United in my humble opinion one of if not the worst
piece of legislation passedsupreme Court decisions in my lifetime.Essentially it allows corporations, Unions and other groups to donate unlimited funds to elections. It is absolutely given more power to the wealthiest and injected unknown millions if not billions of dollars from dubious world actors into our elections through super PACs.
If I had three wishes for the US, overturning Citizens United would likely be on the top of the list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC
Citizen's United was a Supreme Court decision. But I 100 percent agree that it should be directly overturned and also congress should pass laws making it harder for courts to reach the conclusion they did. If none of that works, a Constitutional amendment to overturn the decision. Something needs to change on this issue.
EU citizens don't have much of a say in these things. My guess is that this is happening because Big Tech(tm) is mostly US based and these regulations help with content control and taxing by fines.
Could you expand on this?
It’s frankly incorrect if you ask me.
Some people here in the EU don’t like to believe this due to the Commission and Council(s) being seemingly unelected bodies, but this is not the case.
Also, the EU parliament has its directly voted for (!) members that form the entity representing the biggest democratic process (!) globally.
EU citizens very much have a say on these things, even if to some, it may not always feel like so.
PS. The EU being the best thing this continent has ever managed to do internationally does not mean it is perfectly untouchable and error-free. Every time I hear about new EU Commission plans to ban E2E encryption and implement chat control/monitoring basically all over the net I have to barf.
It came out rather jaded from my side. Thanks from the explanation. You are right.
I also think the EU is a good thing in general and that this measure is positive. To me this looks like a measure against US companies that profit from EU citizens without properly paying for it (and also manipulating opinion), rather than a fight for privacy. As you have already mentioned, EU has a different view on privacy when they do the spying.
Max Fisher's book the Chaos Machine is one source describing harm that has already been done by these algorithms and how and why they work the way they do.
All of the other answers, agree ... but also, Max Shrems and NOYB have played a large role in driving the EU in this direction. Plus, I think the Snowden revelations had a more lasting impact over here. US spy agency spying on its own people? Meh, sounds American ... but US spy agency eavesdropping on Angela Merkel's personal cell phone? Even if it (maybe) didn't actually happen, I think the residue of it is still strong over here.
I've found some interesting discourse amongst tech journalists about how despite the moral outcry, people prefer algorithmic feeds... and I don't disagree. An aspect of the addictive nature is that it is good.
But like, that's the point. I know it's bad for me, and the best way to be rid of an addictive thing is to have be able to turn it off, especially selectively when other aspects of the service are useful (for instance, Instagram is great for keeping up with my friends, but I'd like the algorithm to away from any primary feeds).
"Algorithmic" can also mean anything. I'd like an algorithm on my Mastodon feed that boosts posts from people I personally curated or who don't post often, or with some hashtags, etc.
Like you said, the algorithms we have now are junk food. Sure I'd eat that every day if that wasn't awful for my health.
Her name is @lisamelton@mastodon.social ;)
I don't understand
At least now the services are motivated not to make their algorithms too shitty. Because when they fill it with too much advertsing and other unwanted rubbish, people can just opt out from that. Previously you had to ditch the whole service and your accumulated network there, which is of course much harder.
Finally! I don't think this will be enough for me to get back on Facebook (really, the only reason I haven't deleted my account yet is that the fb groups can genuinely be useful), but it will make using Instagram much less frustrating. I just want to know what my friends are up to without seeing a bunch of random stuff.
I just wish they cracked down on misinformation sharing as well. It's good that it will be easier to report misinformation and rule breaking, but if nothing is done about it in the end, it doesn't really make a difference.
If you tap the logo on Instagram you should be able to switch to viewing only who you’re following
Getting a regular reverse-chronological feed on Facebook would be nice, and so would being able to turn off some recommendations on YouTube and have them stay off.
But these seem like minor UI improvements? I expect that conversation won’t improve much. Social media will be almost as addictive as before and the discourse won’t improve, because “algorithms” were never the problem. People want to talk about UFO’s or whatever. They get into arguments. It happens here too.
It’s also possible for regulations to make websites worse, like happened with cookie disclosures. We’ll see what the result is this time.