I feel like if you really care about sustainability, the best thing to do would be to not buy a new laptop at all and just get second hand business tier stuff. There is so much tech that's fully...
I feel like if you really care about sustainability, the best thing to do would be to not buy a new laptop at all and just get second hand business tier stuff. There is so much tech that's fully functional and cheap that just gets e-wasted because it's last gen and businesses have their 3 year upgrade cycle. You would have close to zero environmental impact, and you wouldn't even have to repair anything, you could just get a new fully functional device on ebay if something breaks.
That's kind of where I'm at. I have an XPS 13 from back in the day and it's taken me all over the world and such... the battery cacked due to the wake/sleep bug killing it on an international...
That's kind of where I'm at. I have an XPS 13 from back in the day and it's taken me all over the world and such... the battery cacked due to the wake/sleep bug killing it on an international flight. For about two years it stayed no more than 30 minutes from another charging point, coincidentally my commute and such.
Finally, I got sick of it dying if I got stuck in traffic and decided I'd look into Framework. Man, I love the look of them and all that. End of the day, I couldn't find a spec that wasn't at least $1k (and that's with basically no fun or fancy options).
Well, ifixit had a battery and I've taken the battery out of this thing before. Less than $100USD later and now I can leave it unplugged for hours and not worry. Now I just need to remember to get that battery to the recycling center.
I have a Surface Pro 4 that still works fine, but the battery is starting to age. I just checked how hard it would be to replace and it looks awful:...
Yeah this is where I think Framework is really helping. Right now a Framework laptop might be a little too expensive vs repairing something you have, but if they are ever able to scale up and...
Yeah this is where I think Framework is really helping. Right now a Framework laptop might be a little too expensive vs repairing something you have, but if they are ever able to scale up and bring prices down to be competitive, and/or they get enough interest that other manufacturers start making things more easily repaired because they recognize it as something users want, then that impossible not-worth-it battery swap problem goes away. A battery swap in a Framework style laptop takes seconds.
Low Tech Magazine: How and why I stopped buying new laptops goes into the numbers on this. That said, if you're buying a new laptop (e.g. because modern apps are bloated and require the perf of...
I feel like if you really care about sustainability, the best thing to do would be to not buy a new laptop at all and just get second hand business tier stuff.
That said, if you're buying a new laptop (e.g. because modern apps are bloated and require the perf of modern laptops), then Framework is the way to go.
I've been using my business tier ThinkPad since 2016 and it still works perfectly. I'm not running Windows though. You wouldn't believe how much of a difference that makes. Much of the planned...
e.g. because modern apps are bloated and require the perf of modern laptops
I've been using my business tier ThinkPad since 2016 and it still works perfectly. I'm not running Windows though. You wouldn't believe how much of a difference that makes. Much of the planned obsolescence with Laptops comes from unnecessary operating system bloat.
I'll hijack this thread by bringing up a company who sells refurbished business laptops, wisetek market (in the US at least--not sure if they ship internationally). You can buy a nice enterprise...
I'll hijack this thread by bringing up a company who sells refurbished business laptops, wisetek market (in the US at least--not sure if they ship internationally).
I love the idea of Framework but there is just no way I'd buy a $1,000 laptop when I can get a very similar one for under $200. And if I just compare apples to apples (chromebook to chromebook), Framework's Chromebook model is great but can't beat an HP C1030 at $170.
Disappointing, Framework also doesn’t doesn’t ship to many other places.
FREE shipping and handling - Free shipping within the USA only. Your order will ship within 3 business days of payment and tracking will be provided. Please allow 3 to 5 business days for delivery time via Fed Ex Ground or similar service.
*Shipping to Canada available upon request
*Delivery times are subject to change due to weather or unforeseen circumstances
Disappointing, Framework also doesn’t doesn’t ship to many other places.
I've been holding off buying a new laptop because of Framework, but their expansion in Europe is horribly slow, so my country isn't included yet, and probably won't be for another year or two. I'm...
I've been holding off buying a new laptop because of Framework, but their expansion in Europe is horribly slow, so my country isn't included yet, and probably won't be for another year or two.
I'm considering just dropping it and buying a laptop available in my country, but nothing checks all the boxes and feels like an objectively worse choice. Also most premium laptops that are worth buying are about 20% more expensive here for some reason (import costs plus low but existent demand probably makes retailers want to stock them up but charge a premium on them).
I’ve taken it pretty much as “Well if they don’t want my money I’ll go elsewhere” kind of scenarios. Ironically went for the anti-Framework with an M1 MBA but at least the M1 Chip is pretty good...
I’ve taken it pretty much as
“Well if they don’t want my money I’ll go elsewhere” kind of scenarios.
Ironically went for the anti-Framework with an M1 MBA but at least the M1 Chip is pretty good and will stay good for a good while.
My next alternative is also a Macbook, lol. Very pricey, but as you said, it will stay good for a long time and keep its value, and it's a top tier laptop. That battery life is to die for.
My next alternative is also a Macbook, lol. Very pricey, but as you said, it will stay good for a long time and keep its value, and it's a top tier laptop. That battery life is to die for.
I’d go with old laptops more frequently if it weren’t for their tendency to have bad to mediocre battery life and to spin up their fans when opening web browsers. It’s only recently that battery...
I’d go with old laptops more frequently if it weren’t for their tendency to have bad to mediocre battery life and to spin up their fans when opening web browsers. It’s only recently that battery life in laptops has gotten good and that efficiency boost translates into fans only kicking in with heavier usage.
In fact those are the two things keeping my old C2D workstation laptop out of circulation. Its battery life is abysmal and it loves to run its fan.
It's also possible to buy slightly-cheaper nearly-new gear off Apple's certified refurbished page. Since it's used, it seems like that should count for something? The way new and used markets...
It's also possible to buy slightly-cheaper nearly-new gear off Apple's certified refurbished page. Since it's used, it seems like that should count for something?
The way new and used markets interact makes it hard to say how much, though. Higher prices for used cars make it more affordable to buy new cars. (Consider how leases work.)
There's also the argument that someone has to buy the new stuff to support companies like Framework, and if you do sell it to a second owner who makes good use of it when you upgrade, that should count for as much as if you keep using it yourself. Similarly, resellers of used gear should get credit for the work they do. They're doing their part!
The real waste is equipment that ends up not used much or at all, if it ends up in a desk drawer or landfill. Getting new stuff is more fun than making sure the old stuff gets used by someone else.
I really wish Framework came out like... 6 years ago when I was still in college looking for a laptop. Their initiatives seem really good and i really love the idea of a modular laptop. I find...
I really wish Framework came out like... 6 years ago when I was still in college looking for a laptop. Their initiatives seem really good and i really love the idea of a modular laptop. I find myself almost wishing for a reason to get a new laptop but I honestly don't, even in my solo travel I don't even bring my Steam Deck out. If I need to work I'll bring my work laptop, otherwise I'm at home with my desktop.
Framework (tap/click to know more...) Designed to last longer Module re-use Refurbished program Climate-conscious materials Carbon-conscious logistics Carbon capture and sequestration Life Cycle...
Framework
And neither is any other device maker. This industry is full of “feel good” messaging, but generates 50 million metric tons of e-waste each year. We believe the best way to reduce environmental impact is to create products that last longer, meaning fewer new ones need to be made. Instead of operating on feels, we operate on data and actions.
(tap/click to know more...)
We commissioned Fraunhofer IZM to do a detailed life cycle analysis on Framework Laptop 13 to help us understand where we are today and where we can continue to improve.
In every choice we make, we think through the impact on people and the planet. Here are some of the initiatives we’re taking:
Designed to last longer
The single best way to reduce the environmental impact of electronics is to make them last longer. We believe empowering consumers and businesses with the right to repair is key to enabling that. We design Framework products to not only be durable over time, but to be easy to repair and upgrade. All replacement parts are available on the Framework Marketplace and can be easily swapped using our step-by-step guides. Every laptop purchase includes a Framework Screwdriver, the only tool you need for repairs and upgrades.
Module re-use
In addition to designing our products to last longer, we want to ensure that modules have uses beyond the life of the laptop they started in. To prevent the creation of e-waste through upgrade behavior, we released a 3D-printable case for the Framework Laptop 13 Mainboard and partnered with Cooler Master to create the new Cooler Master Mainboard Case. Both of these are ways to extend the life of the Mainboard as a standalone computer. We’ve also released open source design documentation and CAD for additional modules on GitHub.
Refurbished program
With the Framework refurbished program, you can now purchase excellent-quality refurbished products, giving a second life to returned goods.
Climate-conscious materials
We choose our materials both for durability and environmental impact. We maximize the use of post-consumer recycled plastics and metals where we can, and select materials that have robust recycling supply chains available at end of life. Our packaging is made of 100% recycled materials and made with the least amount of materials possible.
Carbon-conscious logistics
We track our logistics-based carbon footprint and try to minimize our impact through FedEx’s International Priority Direct Distribution program, which allows us to consolidate and ship regional packages together through customs before breaking them up and distributing them individually.
We also purchase carbon offsets through Flexport and Carbonfund.org for all of our freight. You can see what initiatives the carbon offsets are going to at the Carbonfund.org website, including reforestation, more efficient stoves for the developing world, and solar and wind farms. We know buying offsets is not a perfect solution, so we’re continuing to investigate and invest in ways to reduce our carbon output altogether across manufacturing, logistics, and product lifecycle.
Carbon capture and sequestration
In addition to limiting new emissions, we believe carbon capture and sequestration is a critical element of an overall climate strategy. To help foster this, we offer carbon capture in the Framework Marketplace in quantities matching the estimated impact of manufacturing a Framework Laptop. We partner with Running Tide, a startup based in Maine that is literally sinking carbon in the ocean through floating bio-buoys that grow kelp micro forests over a period of months and then sink to the ocean floor, sequestering carbon for hundreds to thousands of years.
The carbon sequestration industry is brand new, and Running Tide is one of the first companies to deliver practical carbon capture at commercial scale, with a path to bringing down costs in the future. We’ll continue to look for opportunities to fund creative startups in this industry to collectively scale up from kilotons to megatons and eventually the gigatons that are needed to head off climate change.
We have a long road ahead of us. Follow along as we remake consumer electronics to respect people and the planet.
It appears to be Framework's marketing partner doing tracking.
I've switched it out.
I feel like if you really care about sustainability, the best thing to do would be to not buy a new laptop at all and just get second hand business tier stuff. There is so much tech that's fully functional and cheap that just gets e-wasted because it's last gen and businesses have their 3 year upgrade cycle. You would have close to zero environmental impact, and you wouldn't even have to repair anything, you could just get a new fully functional device on ebay if something breaks.
That's kind of where I'm at. I have an XPS 13 from back in the day and it's taken me all over the world and such... the battery cacked due to the wake/sleep bug killing it on an international flight. For about two years it stayed no more than 30 minutes from another charging point, coincidentally my commute and such.
Finally, I got sick of it dying if I got stuck in traffic and decided I'd look into Framework. Man, I love the look of them and all that. End of the day, I couldn't find a spec that wasn't at least $1k (and that's with basically no fun or fancy options).
Well, ifixit had a battery and I've taken the battery out of this thing before. Less than $100USD later and now I can leave it unplugged for hours and not worry. Now I just need to remember to get that battery to the recycling center.
I have a Surface Pro 4 that still works fine, but the battery is starting to age. I just checked how hard it would be to replace and it looks awful: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Microsoft+Surface+Pro+4+Battery+Replacement/60358
So I guess I'm not doing that...
Yeah this is where I think Framework is really helping. Right now a Framework laptop might be a little too expensive vs repairing something you have, but if they are ever able to scale up and bring prices down to be competitive, and/or they get enough interest that other manufacturers start making things more easily repaired because they recognize it as something users want, then that impossible not-worth-it battery swap problem goes away. A battery swap in a Framework style laptop takes seconds.
Low Tech Magazine: How and why I stopped buying new laptops goes into the numbers on this.
That said, if you're buying a new laptop (e.g. because modern apps are bloated and require the perf of modern laptops), then Framework is the way to go.
I've been using my business tier ThinkPad since 2016 and it still works perfectly. I'm not running Windows though. You wouldn't believe how much of a difference that makes. Much of the planned obsolescence with Laptops comes from unnecessary operating system bloat.
Ya I bought a t440 like 4 years ago for like $130. Dive I don't do anything intensive and run Linux it works perfectly fine.
Dell Latitude from 2015 here. Still the machine I use for fun and work every day. At the time it was a smart move to max it out to 16Gb of ram.
I'll hijack this thread by bringing up a company who sells refurbished business laptops, wisetek market (in the US at least--not sure if they ship internationally).
You can buy a nice enterprise laptop for a couple of hundred bucks! I bought a top of the line 2021 chromebook from them with a 16g ram, core i7 processor for $140.
I love the idea of Framework but there is just no way I'd buy a $1,000 laptop when I can get a very similar one for under $200. And if I just compare apples to apples (chromebook to chromebook), Framework's Chromebook model is great but can't beat an HP C1030 at $170.
Disappointing, Framework also doesn’t doesn’t ship to many other places.
I've been holding off buying a new laptop because of Framework, but their expansion in Europe is horribly slow, so my country isn't included yet, and probably won't be for another year or two.
I'm considering just dropping it and buying a laptop available in my country, but nothing checks all the boxes and feels like an objectively worse choice. Also most premium laptops that are worth buying are about 20% more expensive here for some reason (import costs plus low but existent demand probably makes retailers want to stock them up but charge a premium on them).
I’ve taken it pretty much as
“Well if they don’t want my money I’ll go elsewhere” kind of scenarios.
Ironically went for the anti-Framework with an M1 MBA but at least the M1 Chip is pretty good and will stay good for a good while.
My next alternative is also a Macbook, lol. Very pricey, but as you said, it will stay good for a long time and keep its value, and it's a top tier laptop. That battery life is to die for.
Neat site, thanks, wonder if there is something like that in eu...
What is a chromebook doing with an x86 processor? I thought all chromebooks were ARM...
I’d go with old laptops more frequently if it weren’t for their tendency to have bad to mediocre battery life and to spin up their fans when opening web browsers. It’s only recently that battery life in laptops has gotten good and that efficiency boost translates into fans only kicking in with heavier usage.
In fact those are the two things keeping my old C2D workstation laptop out of circulation. Its battery life is abysmal and it loves to run its fan.
It's also possible to buy slightly-cheaper nearly-new gear off Apple's certified refurbished page. Since it's used, it seems like that should count for something?
The way new and used markets interact makes it hard to say how much, though. Higher prices for used cars make it more affordable to buy new cars. (Consider how leases work.)
There's also the argument that someone has to buy the new stuff to support companies like Framework, and if you do sell it to a second owner who makes good use of it when you upgrade, that should count for as much as if you keep using it yourself. Similarly, resellers of used gear should get credit for the work they do. They're doing their part!
The real waste is equipment that ends up not used much or at all, if it ends up in a desk drawer or landfill. Getting new stuff is more fun than making sure the old stuff gets used by someone else.
I really wish Framework came out like... 6 years ago when I was still in college looking for a laptop. Their initiatives seem really good and i really love the idea of a modular laptop. I find myself almost wishing for a reason to get a new laptop but I honestly don't, even in my solo travel I don't even bring my Steam Deck out. If I need to work I'll bring my work laptop, otherwise I'm at home with my desktop.
Framework
(tap/click to know more...)
Life Cycle Assessment of the
Framework Laptop 2022 (pdf)