32
votes
Most reliable privacy-conscious notes app?
as the title indicates, I am in search of a reliable privacy-conscious notes app, I have tried the following which have the indicated bugs that I frequently experience and make the notes app feel unreliable or just too inconvenient:
- NextCloud Notes:
- https://github.com/nextcloud/notes/issues/1187
- bug is that sometimes I have to rename a note 2-3 times in the browser for it to take
- bug where the pop-up menu doesn't go away after favoriting a note
- and the nextcloud android app has its own slew of issues
- StandardNotes app: I remember the app being really buggy on Firefox to the point where I had to regularly use Brave just for that app.
These are probably the top of the list at the moment:
I'll second Joplin, it's been quite nice for solo usage, syncing between my phone and laptop. Running the self-hosted sync service.
No frills, but that's a plus in my book.
I switched from Joplin to Obsidian because Obsidian notes are just files in directories.
Joplin uses a weird-ass database format, which gives me the heebie-jeebies. Joplin IS open source and Obsidian isn't, but I'm more concerned about my data being easily readable.
No longer true, you can change your storage driver to files
I use Joplin too. After jumping around between many note-taking tools, I'm finally happy.
I use a free Backblaze B2 account as my sync server since one of the sync options in Joplin is for services that are S3-like
It's possible that I'll look at Obsidian + RemotelySave as it seems syncing using something like that is easier now than it was the last time I checked it out and also supports S3-like services
You can't really beat "local first" in terms of privacy. And in the case of Obsidian, since it's using markdown files, you can sync them with any service of your choice.
One minor problem with Obsidian, and basically any other editor that relies on Markdown: which Markdown does it use?
Checking the documentation for Obsidian's Markdown support gives a good idea of which implementations of Markdown, and what syntax extensions beyond those implementations, Obsidian supports.
This is important because you might read that "Obsidian supports Markdown" and "XYZ supports Markdown" and think that you could, for instance, just export all of your notes from Obsidian and import them into XYZ and everything would work exactly the same.
Unfortunately, that isn't the case, because "Markdown" is somewhat fragmented across dozens of different implementations. This manifests mostly in notes from one program not being converted to HTML or rendered correctly by/in another program. It could mean, if you have an extensive library of notes (hundreds or thousands of files) that you would either have to spend a very long time manually converting your notes, write a script to do it automatically, or just live with the jank. (And in some cases, not even Pandoc can save you.)
Again though, this is a very minor problem (so minor I debated even posting this comment for fear of getting flamed about it). It's certainly not a reason to not use Obsidian, or almost any other Markdown-supporting note-taking program. It's just a detail to consider if the portability and reliability of your notes is a very serious concern for you.
Rambling notes to myself, might be of interest to nerds
Normally I would say having multiple different implementations of a standard, and maybe even a few competing standards, isn't a bad thing. Web browsers and web standards, for example, benefit greatly from having multiple implementations, each uniquely building the web standards into software, and thus refining those standards in the process.
Markdown though... is not the web, and Markdown implementations are not web browsers. We are talking about something much smaller, with a much simpler purpose. So I think the fragmentation, and weak standards adoption, in the "Markdown ecosystem" (if you can even say there is such a thing) generally presents more of an annoyance than anything else, and its impact on the evolution of Markdown syntax, capabilities, and use cases has been minimal.
Or, at least minimally important to the evolution of Markdown. By that I mean, if there was truly just one single implementation, or one single standard for Markdown syntax, that everyone stuck to and abided by, I do not think that alternate reality would have hobbled the evolution of Markdown compared to what we have today (though I don't think it necessarily would have been any better).
In my head, I kind of support this idea by using the existence of Org-mode as evidence. Org-mode has been sewn-at-the-hip to Emacs for most of its life, with very few other attempts at implementing it outside of Emacs, and certainly none that actually reach feature parity with the original implementation.
I can't really say Org-mode exists as the feature-dominant markup syntax because it has a single (meaningful) implementation though. To be honest, I really think the "infinitely extensible" nature of Emacs itself, and the constant iterate->improve->impart development activity that infinite extensibility encourages, is the true source of Org-mode's feature-dominance, warts and all.
And then there is Orgdown, the burgeoning effort to document the various not-Emacs implementations of Org-mode, and to standardize Org-mode's syntax and feature set into something that other programs can reliably implement.
I'm skeptical that will ever be possible though, because I believe so much of Org-mode's success is, as I said, tied inherently to the extensibility of Emacs. Without that same level of extensibility, which Visual Studio Code does not provide and (Neo)Vim barely does, I do not think other implementations of Org-mode could really provide the same personal empowerment as the original Emacs version, even if they nominally reach feature parity with it.
Yeah, honestly Markdown sucks, alternatives like AsciiDoc or Org are much better. And I say that as someone fairly invested in Obsidian.
Yet I'm still glad that Markdown exists and is gaining ground... It could be better, but it's still a net gain for data privacy, interoperability, and conservation. Plain text files aren't going anywhere.
Another happy user of self-hosted Joplin here. I really like that my notes can sync between all my computers and phone, and I don't have to expose the Joplin server to the internet - I only sync when on my home wifi, and it just silently doesn't sync when I'm away from home, which I exactly what I want.
I think complaints about Joplin's UI are overblown. Sure, it doesn't look the most modern, but I'll take a stable and usable UI any day over a flashy one that changes all the time. Coming from Evernote, this has been a breath of fresh air.
I moved away from Joplin to Obsidian after their mobile version didn't properly support new filesystem permission in Android for months. In GitHub comments there were requests for help as the app was written in React Native and libraries was not updated.
Obsidian is not open source, however. At least the file is markdown so it shouldn't be vendor lock in except for other notes formats like Kanban or Canvas.
Hi!
So, every time I want privacy-friendly software I usually go check this website first: https://www.privacyguides.org/en/
They have recommendations for a lot of stuff. They have for notes taking software also here.
Even their guides are open-source, and you can improve the website with contributions on GitHub!
Was going to mention StandardNotes since Proton and StandardNotes made an announcement a few months back about joining forces.
Synchronisation for a single account is free for Standard Notes, FYI. And E2EE.
I synchronize my notes (Markdown text) across almost a dozen devices these days, including Windows, Mac, Linux (laptop and a Steam Deck), Android, and iOS. My tech needs span the whole range of devices, so it's crucial that I am able to keep my notes up to date. My personal approach is:
The benefit to this setup is that I don't have to rely on anyone else's servers (and those servers' privacy features or lack thereof). With SyncThing running on all my devices they are constantly syncing directly with each other, no middleman server or service required.
Bonus: If you also get into using Todo.txt, these apps complete the whole package:
Best part is that Markor, Sleek, and SwiftToDo can all be set to use both the same todo file and the same archive file, and if you keep both in your notes repo, they will sync pretty seamlessly. It's so satisfying to see in action.
Some history here, I have been working on this setup for many years now. IIRC the first Markdown notes sync I used back in the day may have been SimpleNote. But I grew to distrust their lack of privacy and their owners, and went looking for others. I eventually implemented Nextcloud on a local NAS, which led me to find and fall in love with QOwnNotes. But I quickly grew tired of managing the NextCloud server itself, especially since I really was only using it for Notes. The constant hassle wasn't worth the payoff. So after many other trials of apps and services, the zero-middleman SyncThing setup is where I'm at now, and it's refreshingly simple to maintain once its all up and running.
Apple Notes, but with the caveat that you have to have all Apple devices for it to work well and enable Advanced Data Protection for end-to-end encryption. There's no markdown support, exporting relies on third party tools, and it will still leak info if you don't disable Siri indexing.
Obsidian + whatever sync setup you're comfortable with. Simple markdown files, saved locally by default. Though there is no encryption at rest afaik. But their sync service is E2EE.
For my use case, easy extraction of my notes is vital. I don't want to have to export from within and app to get them in a usable format should the company go out of business or I just want to try something else. And unlike Joplin, obsidian doesn't manipulate the files with garbage titles and append with metadata. The notes are exactly as you entered them, just in raw markdown and not rendered. Which any text editor on any OS can open.
I use org-roam and sync via self hosted Nextcloud. The setup works fairly well. My main gripes would be org-roam doesn’t have a dedicated app on iOS, but luckily I generally only need todo lists on iOS and for that I use Beorg.
Mind you emacs has a very steep learning curve but the power of org mode for notes is worth it.
There is also Plain Org: https://plainorg.com/
It is a one-time purchase, not a subscription.
I haven't used Beorg though, so I can't offer a comparison of them, and Plain Org doesn't offer a free demo (though I've never had trouble refunding an app before).
I'm a fan of Standard Notes and have been using it for around five years. While it was a bit rough around the edges when I first started with it, it's gradually gotten better and better.
I use it via the desktop and mobile apps though - I was curious why you prefer to use it in the browser?
Surprised no one has suggested Logseq with sync. Should have end to end encryption and it's way better than Obsidian.
I'm glad there's at least two of us! I used to use Emacs + Org + Syncthing. Now I use Logseq + Syncthing. I finally got tired of fiddling with Emacs and just decided to go all-in with Markdown. I like Obsidian, but I just can't get past the fact that it isn't open source. Logseq itself has been great, so far (about 6 months).
I would argue the most significant privacy concern with any notes app is how it is synced and distributed to your devices. While I might trust Logseq to an extent, I would rather just not use anyone else's servers. I prefer Syncthing's decentralized approach, anyway. My phone and various computers/laptops sync with one another, along with a single server at home that acts as a semi-central node. I know that's not sufficient for everyone, but if you can make it work it's worth trying.
I get by with vimwiki (and occasionally Bear on iOS) these days, but do keep an eye on Logseq’s development and would probably use it before Obsidian if I was looking for that sort of thing.
Zettlr is another option to consider that is Obsidian adjacent.
I've struggled to decide on a notes app as well, mostly because I want something that works on mobile (iOS) and can be self-hosted. Here's what I've tried:
SilverBullet: markdown based wiki with the ability to do internal links, create tables, do some magic with metadata to create lists that combine to-dos from multiple pages, etc. I liked this one a lot, but I found the PWA on mobile to be a little clunky. It'd be great for reading notes but not so much writing them. (I haven't tried this in nearly a year now so maybe it's better.)
Forgejo / Gitea: Yeah, a git repository interface. You can create an issues-only repository and log things there. Helpfulness is limited if you want less structured notes.
Bookstack: Putting notes into an organized wiki is nice. But again, forces you to be a bit more structured.
I'd be interested to see what note taking app you land on.
Obsidian can sync via any tool that can sync files between devices. The official sync is the snappiest, but you need to pay money for it.
Works on iOS and iPadOS along with any desktop OS. The only "self-hosting" you need to do is figure out the file sync.
Since you mention the sync costs money through them, I assume the collaboration option is part of that sync?
I really like Bookstack. I've been using it for my homelab documentation, as well as for planning my D&D games. That said I wouldn't use it for day-to-day notes. My "other notes" system relies heavily on having just a default quick note inbox that I can come back to and organise at a later date.
Am I the alone in writing in plain txt files using the default text editor (macOS, in my case)? Flawless and future proof.