Looking for a clean, simple phone
I was asked to recommend a phone to an older relative that is bad with technology and wanted to ask some advice.
It is important that the phone is reliable and clean. That is no bloatware, popups, adware, nagware or anything like that. Other than that the requirements are simply as good a camera as is available at the budget and maps.
The options I can see are:
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standard Android phone - Personally I have Samsung A34 which would fit the hw and price but the sw is horrible. I also have no current experience with custom ROMs as I went with adb(and Universal Android Debloater for ease of use) to remove the worst of it. From what I have heard the Google Pixel comes with least amount of bloat as Android(single source) but they seemed to have different problems with hw each generation and the price would mean an older one. Maybe something else would be better choice here.
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iPhone - honestly I have zero experience here as I never had it so I don't even know how much it would fit. The price would also mean an older or used model
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Dumb or KaiOS phone would fail the camera requirement and the minimal phones mentioned here(eg. Light phone, Minimal phone) are expensive for what they are and I am not convinced a good choice here given the usual problems with niche hw and sw(but maybe I am wrong?)
I am in EU and the budget is less than 500EUR, preferably less than 350EUR.
Honestly what comes to mind is the iPhone SE. the camera won’t be absolutely stellar but more than serviceable. For all Apple’s flaws they still do simple to setup, clean, and reliable well. It still has a home button which is nice, especially for older people. It’s not too big and I’m pretty sure you can get one new for less than $500.
+1 for the iPhone SE or maybe older flagships like the 12 Pro. As expensive as iPhones can be, they are simple to set up and use, clean, and are pretty reliable. iOS also has a feature called "Assistive Access" which dumbs the phone down. You can choose which apps are visible and have them show up as a short list or as a grid with 2 columns. Certain apps are also simplified and made easier to use. The SE would also receive software updates until 2029 so your relative can be using it for a while with the latest software. I think it'd be perfect for an older relative to use.
https://support.apple.com/guide/assistive-access-iphone/set-up-assistive-access-devcd5016d31/ios
Pixels can also been a good option. I think the 7a, 7, 7 Pro, and 8a will fit your budget. While they have some issues, Google ironed out many of the glaring issues with the Pixels starting with the 6 and they've just been improving year over year. I've been pretty satisfied with my 7 Pro and I absolutely love the Pixel camera. The Pixel is also the smoothest Android phone I've used, even 2 years on. Android at the moment doesn't have a feature like Assistive Access but it's rumored that the next version of Android launching in October will have something similar.
However, one thing to keep in mind with the Pixels is software support. The 7a, 7, and 7 Pro will only receive 3 years of Android platform upgrades and 5 years of security updates. The 8a will receive 7 years of both platform updates and security upgrades. The 7/7 Pro will get updates until October 2025/2027. The 7a will get update until May 2026/2028. The 8a will receive updates until May 2031.
Personally, I prefer android, but I have to agree that something in the Apple family might be better here.
I see several people suggesting things like different ROMs and different launchers. Which I personally feel is them missing the assignment a bit. OP doesn't have recent experience with custom ROMs, and custom ROMs sometimes come with their own oddities.
A different launcher can work a little bit, there certainly are launchers out there for elderly people. But those only solve the launcher bit, they still need to deal with the rest of the phone from time to time.
Having said that, if iPhones do fall outside the budget, a different launcher might be part of the solution. For a lot of the other things older relatives might struggle with, there are some settings on Android to try out as well. For example, Samsung phones do have an "easy mode" which does make some adjustments to scaling and timing of pressing things. In the accessibility settings there are also various option to adjust.
Not an older person, but I am running on the SE, because I prefer smaller phones and don’t need the bells and whistles. If their relative has larger hands, I would suggest against it, since the keyboard can be small
Any iPhone from the past four or five years will probably have a better camera than a sub-€500 Android phone.
Less than $500
Try free
I'm typing this on a free phone sent to replace a broken phone from ATT. I just use it as my wifi dumb thing at home. I think it's an A12 Samsung. Dumb as a rock. No bloat mostly.
I know you mentioned the Pixel phones having issues, but they’ve been pretty solid the last few years. I would seriously recommend checking out a used Pixel and putting something like GrapheneOS on it if you want to avoid Google stuff. Comes with zero bloatware and if you don’t want the Google services, you don’t have to use them.
You can very easily install it from a web-based tool and it even gives you the option to install Google Play Services/Play Store during setup. No command line muckery required.
Definitely consider a 7A or 8A with grapheneOS, if you can stand the size. Many years of software support, a cheap price, and decent enough specs for a mid ranger. I just wish they'd make a smaller one (and toss in a headphone jack and SD card slot, but I guess that makes me a dinosaur).
I think I'd like to try this as well. I'm a bit fed up with the bloat that modern phones have gotten over the past couple of years. A clean OS sounds nice.
The only major issue I had when I tried GrapheneOS was that it doesn’t support Android Auto. Having that working is crucial for me (from a safety perspective when driving). I understand why they don’t support it (it requires deep Google integration to work), but it’s just something I can’t do without.
If you don’t need Android Auto, I think it’s the best of both worlds because you still get Google Play Services, which many apps require to function, while also getting security because it’s sandboxed so it can’t just slurp up all your data.
And the stock install literally has the most basic set of apps that you can easily replace/add too. Zero bloatware.
I've got Auto running on Graphene now.
How did you get it working? I tried about a year ago and couldn’t get it working.
I think I just installed it. Was kind of surprised it worked actually. I didn't do anything crazy.
Edit: they (Graphene) added it to the Graphene App Store where you install GPS and Vanadium. That's how I installed it.
That’s awesome. When I tried it a while ago (maybe a year or so) they were adamant that they weren’t going to support it because of (pretty reasonable) privacy concerns. Glad they changed their minds and made it possible.
I dont know how expensive Fairphone 4 is at the moment (or 5 that matter), but I have Fairphone 5 with CalyxOS installed on it, and it's brilliant.
The default fairphone android experience is really good as well, there's zero unnecessary stuff.
Edit: And the fact I can change parts just gives me a peace of mind. Sadly, no 3.5mm jack on FP5 but that was removed because it apparently was a big reason causing issues (water gets in and the phone is less waterproof already due to the back cover coming off for example).
I have a Fairphone 4 with /e/OS and I do not recommend this combo (haven't tried other HW or SW versions). It's frustrating to use and would be a thousand times more frustrating for someone who isn't good with technology. (Not that I'm claiming I am, but I'm at least willing to attempt to look for solutions other people have laid out.) The OS feels very unfinished, missing some pretty basic functions, and hasn't made any progress since I got the phone a year ago. However most of my complaints are with the OS, so stock Android or some more advanced third-party ROM would probably eliminate them.
The camera takes a second or two in between hitting the button and actually saving a photo, but I don't know if this is a HW issue or an issue with the default camera app.
I should also note that the phone is very chunky and a bit weighty. I don't particularly mind this myself, but if the relative in question has weak hands it's a significant factor to consider.
Oh I would never use /e/OS anymore. I had it on my Fairphone 3+ and it was always outdated. I installed DivestOS on Fairphone 3+ and it made the phone way more usable.
Anyhow CalyxOS on FP5 has been really, really good for me. The experience is better than on /e/. But the default android experience on FP5 was also really good, I just don't need any of the google's stuff except microG for some apps like banking apps, which is why I moved to Calyx in the end. But it's not necessary for regular user.
I hope I didn't come off as arguing against your recommendation; I just wanted to say "don't do it this way" and I'm not sure how well that came across. Also it occurred to me after I posted that /e/OS was probably only a concern for US users purchasing through Murena like I did, lol.
I'll look into CalyxOS, thank you! I've installed Lineage on a tablet before, but I was always a little wary of messing up and bricking my phone. The time may have come to attempt it anyway, though. I haven't really been able to think about it much this past year but things are looking slightly more relaxed in my life now.
Question, do you know if location sharing on Google Maps can be done with microG? I attempted it on /e/OS but I couldn't get it to disable the location fuzzing so it was useless.
Not at all!
No idea, sorry, I use Organic Maps on my phone.
I also second Fairphone - it had pretty much everything I needed and no more (there's one Fairphone app, but it just had an initial notification to register the warranty, and nothing after that).
Have a look for second hand options, particularly for the 4. It's only been out for a year or so, so it's still at the beginning of its lifecycle, but because everything is repairable, you can expect it to last a lot longer than other phones anyway. I picked up mine for about 300€ on Kleinanzeigen (the German equivalent of Gumtree or Facebook Marketplace).
Does the 5 have reasonable band support in the USA? IIRC it's missing some bands but I might have outdated info on that.
Not really. Their FAQ on it basically says T-Mobile will work but that’s it. They don’t even officially support the phone in the US. It’s provided by a third party company.
I'm running a oneplus 8t right now and it came cheap, free of bloat, and with a clean and intuitive build of android that I've grown fond of. I know their more recent flagships have been controversial, but the pre-10 oneplus models were all received pretty well by the community.
The brand became known for enthusiast products, but like ThinkPads, they also make great daily drivers for basic use. Not that I'd put oneplus phones in quite the same league as thinkpad laptops.
If you just want a no frills cheap Android phone, a Nokia or a Motorola will probably get the job done. /r/AgingParents has good phone recommendations, but a good launcher will get you most of the way there.
From what I've seen the Pixel 7 or 8 are decent phones. If you can live with the unremovable Google search bar on the home screen or are fine with installing a custom launcher, then it's also relatively bloat free. The photo camera is also top notch, and imo only beaten by iPhones when shooting videos.
The Pixel 8 is more expensive but will also receive security updates until 2030-2031 instead of 2027-2028 in the 7's case. Otherwise these phones are pretty similar.
Keep in mind GrapheneOS may not always be an option due to Google's push of Play Integrity which causes some apps and features (e.g. Google Pay, RCS) to refuse to work though it doesn't seem to be consistent for everyone. There is for example currently a workaround to get RCS functioning but that may well be shut down at some point. You would also need to sideload Google's camera app for the better image processing.
I'm excited to hear responses on this as I too am starting to look around for a good budget friendly phone once my s21 ultra reaches EOL.
I don't know about most phones so definitely look into this on your own if it's interesting, but I used a Sony Xperia 10 III for about three years before switching just a week ago to an Xperia 10 VI.
I'd say it's mostly free from bloat? Other than mostly google stuff, it came with Facebook and LinkedIn, which can be disabled in settings, and supposedly removed using Android debug bridge although I have not tried.
The only thing I remember the old version nagging about was installing system updates, and restarting the phone after it had been been on for 28 days or more, and even then it was dismissable notifications. Oh and enabling backing up photos to google drive, I think?
I bought mine new the other week for the equivalent of 310€, although it was marked as discounted by 130€.