What is the current state of Linux on phones?
I use Android and I don't like and I suspect I would like ios about that much. The sw practices and manufacturer behavior is not what I would call exemplary. Compared to the desktop the mobile os landscape is locked down without much choice.
I have personal experience only with Pinephone released around 2020 which I used for about a year with postmarketOS for most of that time. I finally replaced it due it low battery endurance and call reliability with sleep due to inflexible requirements on that front but I actually liked it more that the Samsung I use now.
Other than that I only know about Librem 5 released around that time. Are there any recent examples of phone hardware that is meant to run a linux distro and what do you think about the future of that?
There really aren’t any good daily driver options when it comes to Linux phones.
I would suggest looking into a Pixel device running GrapheneOS. It’s a de-Googled version of Android (of which there are a dime a dozen) but what makes it special is that you can easily add Google services as a sandboxed service that can’t slurp up your data in the background. Or you can just run it with an alternative app store like F-Droid and not have any Google tracking.
All that said, if you really want a Linux phone, the answer is that your options are extremely limited. Most of the places making Linux phones are just taking older phones and throwing Linux on them (Debian seems to be the preferred base). None of them besides Purism have been around long enough to inspire confidence in long term support.
I second graphene (typing this on my pixel 8 running Graphene lol)
I really wanted a Linux phone but there really aren't any good options. I've been really happy with graphene, it's an easy switch for better privacy/more control over your data
Also typing this from GrapheneOS on a Pixel 8! The installation was very easy and I've had zero hiccups since switching a few months ago. Feels just like Android but with less Google snooping.
Graphene user here since the 4a, currently on a 9.
I wish they supported handsets other than Pixel though, but I understand their reasons.
What a coincidence, I too have an 8 and am running grapheneos.
First time with this OS and after fiddling around a bit I love it and will never go back to any other phone not grapheneos.
I'd love to run graphene on my pixel, but I run several apps that, at least to my knowledge, don't work on it. For example, my bank is an 'App Only' bank. Aside from not having web access, which does bother me, I love this bank and it's features but it won't run on rooted (or even bootload unlocked?) phones.
Graphene runs unrooted with a locked bootloader. I've 5 UK banks on my phone and they all work fine. Even Pokemon Go, notorious for not working if it sniffs even a centime of shenanigans works.
I'd suggest maybe trying to find a cheap 6a (I think that's the oldest currently in support - maybe the 6) and giving it a whirl, see if what you need is supported.
The main thing I found that you can't have is Google Pay, so no NFC payments. But I paired my GrapheneOS phone with a preowned Garmin watch so I can tap to pay with my watch. That works fine.
Edit: if you want to pm me the name of your bank app, obviously no login details, I'm happy to see if I can install and run it.
The 6 is also still in support. I am using it right now to type this comment. Hopefully it stays in support for a long time, because it does everything I need.
Never had a problem with an app not running, banking or otherwise.
It's got just over a year left of support. October 2026.
Thank you for mentioning this -- this is a dealbreaker for me, so I'm glad I encountered the information before I looked deeper into experimenting with it.
I worked around it using Garmin Pay from a watch. My child uses tap to pay from a phone all the time though, so I get that others use it more than me. Mostly I'm still using a chip card from my bank. The watch was so that I could get a drink whilst out running or cycling without having to take my wallet.
Yeah I don't think I currently have a smart watch that's able to do NFC payments, so it's good to know about this limitation in advance.
From what I understand this is an issue with banks not wanting to implement NFC payments through the phone, and instead defaulting to only supporting Google Pay, which won't run on anything other than a certified Google OS (I might be missing some technical detail). Graphene is perfectly capable of doing NFC payments direct from the phone, just not through Google Pay, which sadly is functionally almost identical due to Google's policies.
Unfortunately who's responsible is ultimately not as important in terms of whether the functionality is there and works for me. And honestly, I probably prefer a large company being in charge of coding NFC payment functionality rather than each of my banks doing so individually. I live in Germany, so I suspect if it were up to my bank to implement its own NFC payments, I still wouldn't have it at all!
I wish I still lived in the EU :(
Okay. Maybe it's time for me to give this another go.
I can live without NFC on my phone, as I also have it on my Garmin watch. I think I'd miss the convenience of quick switching for multiple cards, but I'm sure I could live without that.
Are there any other pain points that stand out to you?
For info, my bank is Monzo.
I have the Monzo app on my Graphene phone and it starts at least. I don't have an account but was considering switching from Starling so I wanted to know it worked. Probably won't make the switch though. I've got Yorkshire and Santander on there too, and I do use those ones.
There's nothing /I/ have pain with, because I avoided anything that might give me pain, since I started using GrapheneOS 5 years ago. You'll likely want to install Pixel Camera, from Aurora or Play Store as the standard camera app on Graphene is trash.
I recommend Futo keyboard and speech to text. Standard graphene launcher is fine (launcher replacements are all weird in some way).
I've put all my old phones back to fully locked stock OS too once I upgrade, so there's always a way back if things don't work out.
I tested out Android Auto a few months back for someone and it worked fine for me, if that's something you need.
Does RCS work on GrapheneOS? I'd like to make the switch but not at the cost of SMS.
Yes, RCS works. I use Google's Messages app (with sandboxed Google Play services of course) and it behaves exactly like it does on Android.
Fantastic—thank you. Looks like my evening plans have solidified.
Good luck! :)
have you considered degoogled Android versions, like /e/OS for example? (I'm assuming that by SW practices you mean google's spyware). There's phones, like Fairphone, that you can buy with these versions installed by default.
Anyway, I never used one because.... Well, there's just no reason. They support just basic features and have no apps, so you might as well just get a dumb phone instead. AFAIK, that's still the case today
Most generally support a browser, and subsequently install web apps that way. Solves some problems, but not all.
Please don't use /e/OS
Could you give some context as to why? It wasn't clear from the link to me. Is it just that it is shipping an outdated chrome browser?
That page has different sections with different issues with /e/OS, it looks like there are quite a few. It’s quite a range of issues, some seem more problematic than others.
Oh I have no idea, I didn’t post the link. I was just saying there’s more info there than just the outdated Chrome version.
(Fxgn definitely should been more explicit in his post, just posting this link is not gonna cut it if he feels this strongly about anyone not using e/OS)
e/OS works fine, requires barely any ajustment to the way you use your phone, and yes isn't as hardened as grapheneOS but should be fine if your threat model isn't other nation state.
Driving people away from it because it's imperfect is counter productive from a mass privacy view point.
Security nerds should learn to gracefully tolerate other things than their preferred specific solution.
I mean, one of the points in the list is that they claim to be really secure, when they ship pretty outdated versions of apps according to these pages (half a year to a few years), so these are not exactly trivial issues. They do not form a major threat for the average user, no, but it is concerning nontheless. In short, this is not just about preference (IMO).
They don't claim to be really secure, they claim to be privacy friendly. (Those are very different claims).
e/OS is slightly less secure than stock android but focuses on striping Google's telemetry from android as much as possible while not requiring the user to have a computer science diploma.
Depending on the app we are talking about, I'd argue even a few years late is trivial. Most vulnerabilities are more theoretical than actual threats.
People give e/OS most shit for the old default browser, when you can just install and use a regular Firefox instead anyway.
For context, I got the Fairphone cause slavery isn't cool, with e/OS because advertiser spying isn't cool either. I don't need my OS to be an impregnable fortress. I did my research and I couldn't find a better traidoff:
GrapheneOS only works on pixels,
Other custom android aren't as good for privacy/usability (and let's be honest, neither are they much more secure)
Whereas you can buy a pre-flashed e/OS fairphone and directly use it with minimal effort.
For each OS you can find plenty of people arguing you shouldn't use them. While tech litterate, I don't work in tech, so research here is exhausting.
So forgive me for having the knee jerk reaction to blanket disregard any low effort comment that I shouldn't use so or so OS, while not acknowledging that everyone's need is different, or even suggesting a better OS to try.
Always critisizing everything which isn't perfect is mudding the water for non-tech-enthusiasts and ends up just encouraging helplessness and just sticking to stock android, since everything is bad anyway.
I can very much get behind that sentiment. I have heard the same with chat apps "you shouldn't switch to Signal because they still have your phone number, you should use <obscure chat app>". As they say:"Don't let perfect be the enemy of good".
I've been playing around with Droidian using the Phosh interface on a Pixel 3a XL. I installed it using UBPorts. I also played around with Ubuntu Touch on this device before that. Ubuntu Touch was definitely the most polished for every day use. It had things like an animation for screen rotation when you turn the device, where Droidian with Phosh just goes black for a second or so. This is a spare device for me, I just use it to play around, so I don't have SIM card in it. I definitely wouldn't install this on my daily driver phone. It has some odd design choices that probably make sense. Choices like defaulting to Flatpak for everything, and really needing to use Waydroid to emulate an Android device for a lot of things (like RCS messages, and turn by turn directions). I was pleasantly surprised at how fast Waydroid runs on such an old phone after it starts up, but it hijacks the GUI in a big way. All that said, it was fun to play around with, and my familiarity with Linux made dropping to a shell and installing whatever I wanted a breeze for me. Battery life is pretty incredible, but that might be in part because I don't have a SIM card in it, and nothing is polling anything since I've only used it to play around.
I have a Jolla C2. The OS is cool, and in some ways superior to Android; especially multitasking is vastly superior on Sailfish. Sadly I can't use it as a daily driver because there are some must-have apps I haven't gotten working on it yet.
I know a lot of other people are recommending Android, but it sounds like you really did prefer the mobile Linux experience to Android.
I haven't used one, nor do I have any association with the company, but I've heard that https://furilabs.com has released a Linux phone with newer hardware and a price point between the Pinephone and the Librem 5.
You might want to look into that to see if it's what you're looking for.