“Rediscovering” the operating system (AKA: the desktop is the killer app)

This is actually why I like Obsidian. You point the repo to an iCloud folder and it just piggybacks of the sync to have it work on every Obsidian device on something that uses iCloud. It even works on Windows machines if you use the iCloud on Windows application, which is handy since my gaming rig is what I’d use to run a local LLM model and it’ll be good to save directly to the same folder that Obsidian reads off. More things need to just use the scaffolding of the file system to manage your files.

This was also what initially attracted me to the Old iTunes. When you imported your music to it the file got saved in a big Music library folder that it hierarchically sorts into folders based on artist and album. It could also do a bunch of “database” type operations on those files, but the thing it’s using at bottom is just your files arranged in folders as Jobs intended. And if you changed an album tag on a file it would just make a new folder and put the song on that album folder. It was great, but now even MacOS tries to abstract the file system away so people don’t know what it is. I don’t understand why people decided file managers were bad or “too complicated” all of a sudden.

I suspect this disconnect is a result of the iphoneification of personal computers, there’s a lot of layers between you and the file when you’re on a mobile device.

Yeah I think developers who came up post-iPhone just have a different model for what a computer is and how it works. Everything is networked all the time so they’ve always had the experience of the computer having practical uses. Those of us who came up with Apple IIs or DOS machines got used to understanding directories and mostly just remember the entire point of the computer was to work on files, sometimes hot-swapping floppy disks to have multiple applications to operate on a single file. Even once we got MacOS and Windows what did we do at first? Poked around the interface, opened up files just to see what they did, edited weird .ini files to modify attributes in a game, drew dumb shit in MS Paint. This is what a computer is FOR. Make you own fun, it doesn’t need to involve Docker or installing a bunch of libraries that you have only a foggy notion of what they do.

Not exactly the same, but on a related note, I get very confused when someone is talking about China and inevitably brings up WeChat and how "every single service is in one app". Like, yeah, we have that too. It's called a web browser. A web browser is a super app as well, people just don't tend to recognize it as one.

Obviously finder would be the core of the system, but does anyone have experience with just… using the desktop metaphor as intended? Folders with files in them, that get opened in a program, and when you’re done, get saved back into the folder. Put things you use regularly on the desktop (or shortcuts to them, to maintain organisation) and delete them from the desktop when you don’t need them anymore.

Yep that's pretty much what I do. Except with tabs in my file explorer instead of desktop shortcuts usually. I don't get into tiling windows or using extra desktops, seems like extra steps. Just one big clutter on one desktop where I know where everything is and what I'm using is quickly in reach.

Again, it sounds stupid typing it out, surely the answer is “yeah dummy, that’s how you use a computer!!!!!”

Nah, not so silly, folks want apps for everything and to abstract away using the computer itself.

but… why do I have obsidian, and the photos app, and all this extra junk?

I don't know, it always seemed like more work to me, especially if I can't freely access that data as a common format. But I'm also not about trying to organize my life into a digital format, I do that analogue. Including learning, I do handwritten notes, don't want the friction of a computer or app between me and putting information down, writing it out makes it stick better for me any way.

I suspect this disconnect is a result of the iphoneification of personal computers, there’s a lot of layers between you and the file when you’re on a mobile device.

I agree, I've bemoaned this abstraction and how it mollifies users into not truly understanding how to use their devices and accepting somebody else's -- often paid -- solutions. Though that's fine for many folks who want the convenience computers can provide without needing to use a computer, like my grandparents, so it's a bit of "aging person yelling at the clouds." And some do earnestly simplify the process while not interfering with the filesystem way of working, like my server stack.

I feel this and it's how I use things for the most part. A lot of text is in text files and sublime text as my editor. Photos and music and all that type of thing are just files in folders that I access directly and then toss into a program of choice when necessary. I don't really use "organizational" tools as much at all anymore.

Notes are maybe a slight exception to the rule- in that I use Joplin (and WebDAV for syncing it)- but I chose it specifically because it uses folders instead of tags (which I really do not like in my notes apps- I don't like the "all" views, etc - it breaks the organization paradigm I like in a way that my brain actively hates), so it mimics how it would work on a desktop. Having it all in one app on mobile and easily accessible is useful though, so its why I do it that way.

However, it's really only for notes that I want to have in multiple places and synced. I still use text files all the time for device-local notes.

I strongly overall prefer the simplicity approach. Files in folders, especially files that are easily readable and accessible on any device without extra software. Plain text where possible. Not proprietary formats and such. I don't hate the idea of markdown and markdown notes systems because at the end of the day its plaintext underneath, but sometimes it feels like an unnecessarily layer of complexity on top and so on

This sounds more like rediscovering filesystems. I think naming and arranging files in folders is something a lot of people have gotten away from and don't want to go back to. An app could do that for you, though, like iTunes does.

The files are still there, unless it's a Sqlite database or something like that.

I had a very similar realisation recently too. I find the desktop metaphor more comfortable, and enjoyable. It has less cognitive load and reminds me of old times a bit too. I can share what I've managed to "de-app" so far.

I've started saving browser bookmarks to a folder by dragging the URL to Finder. This doesn't work when there are multiple tabs so the first step is to drag/pop the tab out into a window of its own. Then drag the URL to Finder.

Another thing is Calibre. I've actually started just adding epub files to a folder of books. The file manager shows the covers as thumbnails anyway and I use the option to hide file extensions to make it more legible. I do use Calibre to transfer wirelessly sometimes, or to convert, but that's it.

I've started keeping my music albums as files and folders too, using Quicklook to play them. This only works while I don't need to use the file manager of course, but it's enough for me. I don't need a music app all the time. It does mean manually progressing each song but that suits me since I'm happy with silent periods between songs.

Just a few days ago I started using TextEdit instead of Notes. I find having a few tabs open in TextEdit is more relatable because it's similar to browser tabs. I can keep switching back and forth between tabs as needed to update a note or retrieve something. I do have Sublime Text for occasional coding.

Like yourself another commenter, my photos now go in folders. In the new year, I created a sub-folder called 2025 and put everything into it.

Another thing I've started using is an additional file manager. Forklift, in my case. Having an additional one with more advanced layouts helps in some cases and means I can leave Quicklook playing music from Finder while still interacting with other files in Forklift.

I still use Launchpad for applications, though. I have 130+ applications in subfolders, leaving three screens of commonly used applications. I can't imagine being able to achieve that kind of custom organisation and decluttering with Finder (or with macOS 26, which I'm not going to upgrade to).