Apple is really testing out the last of goodwill left in its customers, especially for the Mac line. I've had Apple laptops for many, many years and I'm just about done with this bullshit. I'm...
Apple is really testing out the last of goodwill left in its customers, especially for the Mac line. I've had Apple laptops for many, many years and I'm just about done with this bullshit. I'm still on a 2012 MBP (which, btw, still works great!) and I honestly don't really see a reason to upgrade (which might be part of the problem – they're messing with stuff that works just for the sake of having something new!) but like hell would I buy a new MacBook at this point.
The problem is, other companies aren't much better. Maybe more solid or cheaper. But you're still stuck with Windows or Linux and there's subtler design issues (trackpad, screen quality, fan noise, etc) that you can't rely on being solid on most laptop brands. Noticeable, if you do look for quality screens and such, you'll end up in the $1200+ segment, even for non-Apple products at which point the price argument seems to fall apart a bit (even though Apple is even pushing it there, with $3000 monstrosities and whatnot) and for every stuck keyboard that ever happened on a MacBook, you get at least the same amount of problems in non-Apple laptops.
We really need better alternatives. How is that supposed to even happen in 2019, though?
I'd argue that this definitely isn't true. Sure there are many laptops with at least the same amount of issues, but there are definitely some with less issues and some combination of better price,...
for every stuck keyboard that ever happened on a MacBook, you get at least the same amount of problems in non-Apple laptops.
I'd argue that this definitely isn't true. Sure there are many laptops with at least the same amount of issues, but there are definitely some with less issues and some combination of better price, better design, and better specs. You just have to hunt for them.
I have this discussion with Mac users a lot. I think since most Mac users are brand loyalists they shop for brands. For example, when I tell them there are better options they will ask "What's better? Dell? My sister has a Dell and it has ... issues.". For me the problem with this statement is that the person is looking at the brand (Dell) and not the specific laptop. This is understandable for Mac users because many of them have come to rely on the Apple brand. If you disassociate the brand and the laptop there are many good options. I spend a good few weeks researching different laptops when I want to buy one. I go to the store and test them out in person (at Bestbuy or Microsoft stores) and I sometimes end up waiting a bit because I hear that a promising laptop will be released soon which may be worth waiting for. I go for features that matter to me rather than general appeal and I usually find good options.
I have a Macbook Pro through work (2016 model - 15inch with touch-bar) and I honestly find the design frustrating and much worse than previous generations. Don't get me wrong, it's visually appealing, and the display is gorgeous. The touch-bar makes the experience terrible though, making it very difficult to work without looking at the keyboard. The keyboard can get stuck and is also just annoying to type with given how minimal the keystroke is. On the 15-inch the touch-pad is very large and the keyboard is kind of crunched up near the display, for me this makes it difficult to work with the laptop on my lap because it keeps on tilting back (as if to flip over on to the back of the lid) -- this probably has more to do with the way I sit though. The sharp edges of the chassis cut into the skin of my wrists during the first few weeks (but seem to have dulled since). The USB-C only is frustrating for usability since USB-C isn't widely adapted. It would be even more frustrating for me if I had an iphone, but my phone also uses USB-C. Considering all of these, the only appeal I see in it, is for people who are accustomed to Mac OS.
The OS issue can be tricky. You say you've used Mac OS for years and in my experience people who have used Mac for years (especially at a power-user levels) have the hardest time switching to any other OS. I used Windows as a power-user for many years, and although I never enjoyed it, I was OK with it. I later switched to Linux and with the endless possibilities it gives me I can't see myself switching to anything else anytime soon. Almost anything that I don't like can be customized and I've found that I can customize my UX to a point that it is much better suited for me than Windows or Mac OS. I can see that, had I gone straight from Windows to Mac OS, I probably would have liked it more, but having used Linux for 4-5 years, I can't bring myself to enjoy using Mac OS. I actually would prefer Windows to it (even-though I don't like Windows either).
I just want to add on to what you were saying. I work IT for an organization that uses Macs and PCs. Statistically (using the data from our ticketing system) the PCs have far far fewer issues than...
I just want to add on to what you were saying. I work IT for an organization that uses Macs and PCs. Statistically (using the data from our ticketing system) the PCs have far far fewer issues than the macs, both in hardware and software. Some of it can be explained by user error (putting papers with a staple between the screen and the keyboard and using the computer like a folder) but even discounting all of those, there are far more mac hardware issues.
For me the problem with this statement is that the person is looking at the brand (Dell) and not the specific laptop.
You've hit the nail on the head. Almost every person I meet has a really hard time with this. They always ask me to recommend a brand and seem disappointed when I recommend specific models instead. I normally have to email them a list of recommendations for their usage case, then they ignore it and buy the most expensive macbook pro.
I know this comes off as very anti-apple. I admit I am somewhat biased against apple due to work. I do use macs and pcs and the big 3 operating systems on a daily basis though.
I just want to express that it comes off a bit condescending to always be accused of blind brand loyalty when defending Macs. I know I can get the same hardware configuration for cheaper with...
I just want to express that it comes off a bit condescending to always be accused of blind brand loyalty when defending Macs. I know I can get the same hardware configuration for cheaper with other brands (I keep using the word "brand" as I don't find an alternative? where can I find non-branded laptops?). It's not the hardware configuration. I know they're charging disgusting prices for harddisk upgrades. But that's not it. It's about having a device that's thought through. I say this knowing that the touch-bar is a weird and clumsy new feature, that their quest to make laptops thinner has led to some awful compromises (nearly every major Apple failure in recent years stems from this).
I wouldn't buy a current MacBook. But a lot of this is also due to early-adopter pain. For example, it was Macs who first figured out how to do high res displays properly, down to OS support. It were Macs who first had a trackpad that doesn't make me want to scream. On macOS, if I want to access a new functionality, I look at where it should logically be and it's usually there. On Windows, I always have to google settings because the UI is terrible. They were the first to dare to remove the DVD drive from their laptops, which made me panic until I realized I hadn't used a DVD in years and the space can be spent much better. The magsafe power cable attachment prevents me from pulling the laptop from the table when dripping over it, which I never do because I care about my laptop, but it's a nice peace-of-mind kinda feature (removed now, sadly!). Syncing with iOS apps with macOS apps is painless and works out of the box. On top of that macOS is a POSIX-compliant operating system, so if I want to tinker with the command line, I can do nearly anything I could do on Linux.
People don't buy Macs like they buy designer underpants. "Design" isn't just about being visually pleasing. For a tool (as Macs are), it's about functionality and dealing with human needs. So yea, it sucks when their new keyboards get stuck or their cables get so thin they break. It sucks if you rely on using the F-keys and they decide replacing it with some weird touch-bar. I think they're going in a direction where they leave me behind as a potential customer. But at least they try stuff. At least they have a way of dealing with consumer needs that doesn't come down to RTF-(900 page)-M. They're the only computer company who even has a clue about UX design and that's why they're successful.
The time I save configuring and dealing with general pain, priced at my hourly rate, would cover the extra cost in a couple of weeks and that's why professionals, especially those who do not work in IT for a living, prefer Macs.
Linux is not POSIX compliant, you do not have portability guaranteed. And given how out of date many OS X system binaries are without something like Brew, bash scripts that work fine on Linux...
On top of that macOS is a POSIX-compliant operating system, so if I want to tinker with the command line, I can do nearly anything I could do on Linux.
Linux is not POSIX compliant, you do not have portability guaranteed. And given how out of date many OS X system binaries are without something like Brew, bash scripts that work fine on Linux might not work on OS X.
Is POSIX compliance actually useful now? I've never heard any reasons why it benefits Apple. I understand it means some program compatibility, and I'm sure back when there was a lot more UNIX competition it was beneficial for interoperability, but I doubt people would buy a Mac and expect to use it like a Solaris box, especially since POSIX guarantees nothing when you move into graphical interfaces.
To sum it up, it's the software and ecosystem that make macs and apple unique. We're about half a decade past the point where apple's hardware was noticeable beyond the competition. Whenever...
To sum it up, it's the software and ecosystem that make macs and apple unique. We're about half a decade past the point where apple's hardware was noticeable beyond the competition. Whenever google and Android can offer a comprehensive package better than apple (hint hint: fix the fragmentation in their messaging apps), that's when I will sell off my apple gear and move back.
If the Ming-Chi Kuo rumor turn out real, then a Pro redesign should be appearing this year. It's been accurate so far about the new iPads and AirPods 2nd Gen, though it got the size of the Air...
If the Ming-Chi Kuo rumor turn out real, then a Pro redesign should be appearing this year. It's been accurate so far about the new iPads and AirPods 2nd Gen, though it got the size of the Air wrong. Hopefully redesign means new keyboard and no Touch Bar.
Well, it's probably coming in the next 2 years, yes. If you consider that "soon". However, this won't be "terrible" at all, in fact, it'll be the biggest boon for Mac in years. Just like PowerPC...
Well, it's probably coming in the next 2 years, yes. If you consider that "soon". However, this won't be "terrible" at all, in fact, it'll be the biggest boon for Mac in years. Just like PowerPC stopped evolving and something better arrived, so has Intel—where the successor is Apple's much more power efficient, performant, and more secure Ax-series of CPUs.
Given OS level compatibility, and provided applications use the correct APIs, the transition shouldn't be too bad. Of course, all the big players use SPI's too, so it'll be a few years of turbulence. But I won't mind being freed of Meltdown, Spectre, Intel's ME engine, and their poorly documented x86 architecture.
I'm not worried about the hardware per se, I'm worried about the fact that moving closer to the iPhone hardware model is very likely a step towards the iPhone software model: locked bootloaders,...
I'm not worried about the hardware per se, I'm worried about the fact that moving closer to the iPhone hardware model is very likely a step towards the iPhone software model: locked bootloaders, walled gardens, and approved developers only (from whom Apple takes a healthy 30% cut of every sale). I doubt it'll come with the first generation of custom chips, but I'm nervous about what we'll see 5 years down the line.
I don't agree here, to be honest. Apple is fully aware of the distinction between Mac & iPad, and going forward, I expect the "openness" of Mac compared to iPhone & iPad to actually be one of its...
I don't agree here, to be honest. Apple is fully aware of the distinction between Mac & iPad, and going forward, I expect the "openness" of Mac compared to iPhone & iPad to actually be one of its defining features. Let's be honest, 90% of people actually don't need to cruft of a unix filesystem or complex programs like automator, disk utility, or a terminal. Expect iPad to fulfil more & more of general consumer tasks going forward, while Mac will always be on the bleeding edge of performance and openness. It's still a balance though. A locked bootloader ensures a full chain of trust that right now is only provided on iPhone & iPad; I expect (and hope) that this feature makes its way to macOS eventually.
Given that any macOS ARM chips would likely be derived from the A-series processors powering iPhone & iPad, which already feature locked bootloaders & a secure enclave, it makes sense this would be a feature from day one. I personally can't wait.
I'll preface this by saying I know I'm in the significant minority - that's actually one of my big worries, that we'll be ignored because it doesn't hurt the bottom line that much. The "chain of...
I'll preface this by saying I know I'm in the significant minority - that's actually one of my big worries, that we'll be ignored because it doesn't hurt the bottom line that much.
The "chain of trust" you describe is exactly what worries me, and to me it's fundamentally incompatible with "openness". It moves the final say about what happens on my machine from me to Apple, and that means that when their interests are in conflict with my own, they win - that's a much bigger issue for me on the device my livelihood depends on than it is on my phone. It's also what I expect to ramp up over that ~5 years - from showing "look, you had nothing to worry about" by leaving it almost fully open, to adding a few minor rules (enforcing app signing but handing out keys freely, perhaps), to full anti-competitive behaviour (our store, our rules).
I genuinely like Apple and their products, but I don't trust any company with the keys to the kingdom. It needn't even be a case of malice - I just don't want them having the majority vote when there's an honest disagreement about what I'm allowed to do with my hardware.
That's what most people don't get it. That's why things like DRM exists now. It's my hardware and i should do with it as i please. I don't want anybody controlling me. And that's why my pc is 8+...
That's what most people don't get it. That's why things like DRM exists now.
It's my hardware and i should do with it as i please. I don't want anybody controlling me.
And that's why my pc is 8+ years old and running perfectly fine and my smartphones are unlocked and i don't have to buy another one just to be able to upgrade the OS and not be vulnerable.
We need choices. I don't want to be forced to buy everything again after some time.
I don't really care what Apple does, because i'll never buy something from them (specially after ditching the headphone jack), but i don't want everybody to follow. AMD is a good compromise for now.
This has always been since the conception of Apple when Steve Jobs disagreed with the openness of hardware with Steve Wozniak, people are not forced to buy Apple products and we have choices as...
This has always been since the conception of Apple when Steve Jobs disagreed with the openness of hardware with Steve Wozniak, people are not forced to buy Apple products and we have choices as Windows or Linux machines.
That's why i want Librem 5 Phone to be a success so much. I don't get my hopes high, but maybe they will be the beginning of something. Probably not, but maybe.
That's why i want Librem 5 Phone to be a success so much. I don't get my hopes high, but maybe they will be the beginning of something. Probably not, but maybe.
Depends. It'd be a PITA for people who buy Macs for dual booting, or otherwise rely on PC compatibility, but taken on their own merits, Apple's custom ARM chips are some of the best in the...
Depends. It'd be a PITA for people who buy Macs for dual booting, or otherwise rely on PC compatibility, but taken on their own merits, Apple's custom ARM chips are some of the best in the business. The A12X in the iPad compares favorably with high end laptop and midrange desktop CPUs at a fraction of the power consumption
This is important coverage, but man is that broken-keyboard gimmick tedious to read. At first I assumed it was just the headline or first paragraph, but incredibly WSJ allowed the whole article to...
This is important coverage, but man is that broken-keyboard gimmick tedious to read. At first I assumed it was just the headline or first paragraph, but incredibly WSJ allowed the whole article to go to press like this.
Check your console logs. Open developer tools (Ctrl+Shift+I in Chrome; check your browser's menu otherwise) and find the "Console" tab. It should tell you what messed up.
Check your console logs. Open developer tools (Ctrl+Shift+I in Chrome; check your browser's menu otherwise) and find the "Console" tab. It should tell you what messed up.
It's not on your side. The service they use to deliver the JS libraries the website uses seems to be down, and without the libraries – which are often used to create special content, such as the...
It's not on your side. The service they use to deliver the JS libraries the website uses seems to be down, and without the libraries – which are often used to create special content, such as the toggles that you can't see and the text modification associated with it – the page can't be presented properly.
It's strange that you have this problem, though. I've just loaded the page again – the second time, the first being right after I saw your comment – and it's working fine for me. The library-delivery service – jsdelivr.net – I can't access. It should be that I wouldn't see the toggles, either, but I do.
Offtopic/meta... but I was about to edit the title to "fix" it, since it didn't match the URL slug, before realizing it was intentional. They almost got me. ;)
Offtopic/meta... but I was about to edit the title to "fix" it, since it didn't match the URL slug, before realizing it was intentional. They almost got me. ;)
That's two mods that were almost fooled now, since Deimos almost "fixed" it, too. :) Also, whoever is in charge of URL slugs at WSJ has no chill or sense of humor!
That's two mods that were almost fooled now, since Deimos almost "fixed" it, too. :)
Also, whoever is in charge of URL slugs at WSJ has no chill or sense of humor!
I'm actually going to bring my MBP (2017) in tomorrow for this exact issue ('e' and 'n' for me). I love macOS and I love the hardware feel and quality (this issue notwithstanding), but I just...
I'm actually going to bring my MBP (2017) in tomorrow for this exact issue ('e' and 'n' for me). I love macOS and I love the hardware feel and quality (this issue notwithstanding), but I just can't recommend the current MacBook lineup. The keyboard issue is too much of a dealbreaker.
Does the warranty fully cover it, at least? I would almost expect Apple to extend the warranty for this particular issue, if they haven't already, too... since it seems like a pretty common and...
Does the warranty fully cover it, at least? I would almost expect Apple to extend the warranty for this particular issue, if they haven't already, too... since it seems like a pretty common and persistent problem.
Yes, the keyboard fix itself will be free thanks to the Keeyboard Serevice Program for affected models even if they're out of warranty. However, the issue for me is that my MBP is my daily driver...
Yes, the keyboard fix itself will be free thanks to the Keeyboard Serevice Program for affected models even if they're out of warranty. However, the issue for me is that my MBP is my daily driver and I really don't like not havinng it for a week.
It's covered by the Keyboard Replacement Program for 2016-2017 year MacBook Pros. I also had the same issue, but with my 2018 MBP, which has the "revised" design to minimize dust & debris ingress....
It's covered by the Keyboard Replacement Program for 2016-2017 year MacBook Pros. I also had the same issue, but with my 2018 MBP, which has the "revised" design to minimize dust & debris ingress. The 'e' key would repeat occasionally, and it was incredibly annoying.
It took over a week for the Apple Authorized Service Provider to fix the issue and return the laptop to me.
Has anyone had any experience with apple service with this stuff, out of curiosity? I've traditionally been an apple-hater (I had a macbook pro through highschool - which, in hindsight, was...
Has anyone had any experience with apple service with this stuff, out of curiosity? I've traditionally been an apple-hater (I had a macbook pro through highschool - which, in hindsight, was clearly a lemon/from a bad batch as I had tons of issues that noone else I could find could replicate - but it gave me a bad impression of the brand for a long time), but warmed more up to them recently after finally taking my mbp to an apple store to get it fixed and having a great experience with the whole repair process - I still don't like them much, and I'm typing this from my main Dell machine but their repair was smoother than most other tech I've owned (though granted, I usually don't go through the manufacturer). So I'm curious if they're acknowledging the problems and making replacements easy for those with it or if they're trying to downplay it's significance like it seems.
I sent my laptop in about two weeks ago, on a saturday evening (dropped it off at an Apple store). Took about 10 minutes at the store, and they tried replacing the problem keys a la carte, then...
I sent my laptop in about two weeks ago, on a saturday evening (dropped it off at an Apple store). Took about 10 minutes at the store, and they tried replacing the problem keys a la carte, then shipped it off to the repair center.
The entire top case (including battery!) was replaced free of charge, and I got it back wednesday morning (I believe it was shipped out on monday). All in all, not a bad experience, just wish it didn't have to be an experience.
An interesting note-- the keyboard I now have on it is slightly different than the original (alt and ctrl have the symbol for them on the keys, and alt now only says option on it), so not sure why that happened. Either way, it works well now.
Sounds like a new model of keyboard (maybe with more issues fixed? I remember a friend of mine who got his replaced said his was different upon return, but I don't remember specifically why) and...
Sounds like a new model of keyboard (maybe with more issues fixed? I remember a friend of mine who got his replaced said his was different upon return, but I don't remember specifically why) and sounds like a similar experience to when I sent mine in, so good to know should I even own an Apple product again (especially the battery replacement!). I agree though, shouldn't have to be an experience in the first place - in the same vein as my current machine (A Dell XPS), with 'premium' devices in their price range, things like this shouldn't be an issue in the first place. Not that they should with any device per se, but I'd like to think that I'm paying a certain premium for build quality as well and not just the visual appeal.
The fact that half of the laptop had to be replaced to remove a spec of dust from a key is very worrying. How much will this cost to replace after apple finishes replacing them for free?
The fact that half of the laptop had to be replaced to remove a spec of dust from a key is very worrying. How much will this cost to replace after apple finishes replacing them for free?
It actually wasn't the dust that caused this issue specifically (at least, how it seems), it was an issue with the actual butterfly mechanism under that one key.
It actually wasn't the dust that caused this issue specifically (at least, how it seems), it was an issue with the actual butterfly mechanism under that one key.
My macbook air had a known faulty ssd and the store tried to charge $500 to replace it. Also everyone I know with a macbook has had the charging cable fail.
My macbook air had a known faulty ssd and the store tried to charge $500 to replace it. Also everyone I know with a macbook has had the charging cable fail.
Yikes - I think the only thing that didn't fail on my macbook was the charger. Do macbook airs not have user-servicable ssds? I know the new ones definitely don't, but mine (release 2009-10ish?...
Yikes - I think the only thing that didn't fail on my macbook was the charger. Do macbook airs not have user-servicable ssds? I know the new ones definitely don't, but mine (release 2009-10ish? Ill have to check) did, so I assumed all the older models do. $500 for a faulty drive is definitely pretty steep, even if it was a massive drive.
2 people at work got the new macbook keyboard about 3 years apart. Both of them had the keyboard fail. The most recent one was one dev got it at the start of the year and one of the keys failed...
2 people at work got the new macbook keyboard about 3 years apart. Both of them had the keyboard fail. The most recent one was one dev got it at the start of the year and one of the keys failed after only one month of use. They replaced the keyboard and now I see that dev constantly using canned air on it to stop any dust getting on it.
It's an absolute shame. I have a 15-inch, 2016 and the space bar is starting to go. It's unconscionable for a computer to cost this much and be unreliable.
It's an absolute shame. I have a 15-inch, 2016 and the space bar is starting to go. It's unconscionable for a computer to cost this much and be unreliable.
I really like the current MacBook keyboards feel but I have to send mine in once I'm home as well, since my 'A' button needs to be clicked with quite some pressure for it to work
I really like the current MacBook keyboards feel but I have to send mine in once I'm home as well, since my 'A' button needs to be clicked with quite some pressure for it to work
Nice headline OP +1! Made me actually LOOK at TFA to realize that you must be using an Apple computer! LOL And when I saw "butterfly keyboard" in the preface, I immediately recalled the old...
Nice headline OP +1! Made me actually LOOK at TFA to realize that you must be using an Apple computer! LOL And when I saw "butterfly keyboard" in the preface, I immediately recalled the old Thinkpad that IBM introduced with a "butterfly" keyboard that kinda popped up and expanded when you opened the lid. Looked cool. Worked, less than that. I don't know if they even sold any.
I'm just curious, does anyone else here think that the author of the article is probably one of those people who at a part keeps repeating a not-funny joke over and over to every person at the party all night. Then repeats it to all her friends for ten years?
A paragraph of missing letters - ok we get the point.
But the whole article?
(I admit that I find the quality of web-journalism abyssmal, and I'm being kind because this is my first tildes posting LOL)
You know you've passed the "getting" old point when you not only aren't creating the latest memes but also don't get references to the latest ones. Might be time to hang up my keyboard. (the one...
You know you've passed the "getting" old point when you not only aren't creating the latest memes but also don't get references to the latest ones. Might be time to hang up my keyboard.
(the one referenced did make me lol when I finally heard the story)
Apple is really testing out the last of goodwill left in its customers, especially for the Mac line. I've had Apple laptops for many, many years and I'm just about done with this bullshit. I'm still on a 2012 MBP (which, btw, still works great!) and I honestly don't really see a reason to upgrade (which might be part of the problem – they're messing with stuff that works just for the sake of having something new!) but like hell would I buy a new MacBook at this point.
The problem is, other companies aren't much better. Maybe more solid or cheaper. But you're still stuck with Windows or Linux and there's subtler design issues (trackpad, screen quality, fan noise, etc) that you can't rely on being solid on most laptop brands. Noticeable, if you do look for quality screens and such, you'll end up in the $1200+ segment, even for non-Apple products at which point the price argument seems to fall apart a bit (even though Apple is even pushing it there, with $3000 monstrosities and whatnot) and for every stuck keyboard that ever happened on a MacBook, you get at least the same amount of problems in non-Apple laptops.
We really need better alternatives. How is that supposed to even happen in 2019, though?
I'd argue that this definitely isn't true. Sure there are many laptops with at least the same amount of issues, but there are definitely some with less issues and some combination of better price, better design, and better specs. You just have to hunt for them.
I have this discussion with Mac users a lot. I think since most Mac users are brand loyalists they shop for brands. For example, when I tell them there are better options they will ask "What's better? Dell? My sister has a Dell and it has ... issues.". For me the problem with this statement is that the person is looking at the brand (Dell) and not the specific laptop. This is understandable for Mac users because many of them have come to rely on the Apple brand. If you disassociate the brand and the laptop there are many good options. I spend a good few weeks researching different laptops when I want to buy one. I go to the store and test them out in person (at Bestbuy or Microsoft stores) and I sometimes end up waiting a bit because I hear that a promising laptop will be released soon which may be worth waiting for. I go for features that matter to me rather than general appeal and I usually find good options.
I have a Macbook Pro through work (2016 model - 15inch with touch-bar) and I honestly find the design frustrating and much worse than previous generations. Don't get me wrong, it's visually appealing, and the display is gorgeous. The touch-bar makes the experience terrible though, making it very difficult to work without looking at the keyboard. The keyboard can get stuck and is also just annoying to type with given how minimal the keystroke is. On the 15-inch the touch-pad is very large and the keyboard is kind of crunched up near the display, for me this makes it difficult to work with the laptop on my lap because it keeps on tilting back (as if to flip over on to the back of the lid) -- this probably has more to do with the way I sit though. The sharp edges of the chassis cut into the skin of my wrists during the first few weeks (but seem to have dulled since). The USB-C only is frustrating for usability since USB-C isn't widely adapted. It would be even more frustrating for me if I had an iphone, but my phone also uses USB-C. Considering all of these, the only appeal I see in it, is for people who are accustomed to Mac OS.
The OS issue can be tricky. You say you've used Mac OS for years and in my experience people who have used Mac for years (especially at a power-user levels) have the hardest time switching to any other OS. I used Windows as a power-user for many years, and although I never enjoyed it, I was OK with it. I later switched to Linux and with the endless possibilities it gives me I can't see myself switching to anything else anytime soon. Almost anything that I don't like can be customized and I've found that I can customize my UX to a point that it is much better suited for me than Windows or Mac OS. I can see that, had I gone straight from Windows to Mac OS, I probably would have liked it more, but having used Linux for 4-5 years, I can't bring myself to enjoy using Mac OS. I actually would prefer Windows to it (even-though I don't like Windows either).
I just want to add on to what you were saying. I work IT for an organization that uses Macs and PCs. Statistically (using the data from our ticketing system) the PCs have far far fewer issues than the macs, both in hardware and software. Some of it can be explained by user error (putting papers with a staple between the screen and the keyboard and using the computer like a folder) but even discounting all of those, there are far more mac hardware issues.
You've hit the nail on the head. Almost every person I meet has a really hard time with this. They always ask me to recommend a brand and seem disappointed when I recommend specific models instead. I normally have to email them a list of recommendations for their usage case, then they ignore it and buy the most expensive macbook pro.
I know this comes off as very anti-apple. I admit I am somewhat biased against apple due to work. I do use macs and pcs and the big 3 operating systems on a daily basis though.
I just want to express that it comes off a bit condescending to always be accused of blind brand loyalty when defending Macs. I know I can get the same hardware configuration for cheaper with other brands (I keep using the word "brand" as I don't find an alternative? where can I find non-branded laptops?). It's not the hardware configuration. I know they're charging disgusting prices for harddisk upgrades. But that's not it. It's about having a device that's thought through. I say this knowing that the touch-bar is a weird and clumsy new feature, that their quest to make laptops thinner has led to some awful compromises (nearly every major Apple failure in recent years stems from this).
I wouldn't buy a current MacBook. But a lot of this is also due to early-adopter pain. For example, it was Macs who first figured out how to do high res displays properly, down to OS support. It were Macs who first had a trackpad that doesn't make me want to scream. On macOS, if I want to access a new functionality, I look at where it should logically be and it's usually there. On Windows, I always have to google settings because the UI is terrible. They were the first to dare to remove the DVD drive from their laptops, which made me panic until I realized I hadn't used a DVD in years and the space can be spent much better. The magsafe power cable attachment prevents me from pulling the laptop from the table when dripping over it, which I never do because I care about my laptop, but it's a nice peace-of-mind kinda feature (removed now, sadly!). Syncing with iOS apps with macOS apps is painless and works out of the box. On top of that macOS is a POSIX-compliant operating system, so if I want to tinker with the command line, I can do nearly anything I could do on Linux.
People don't buy Macs like they buy designer underpants. "Design" isn't just about being visually pleasing. For a tool (as Macs are), it's about functionality and dealing with human needs. So yea, it sucks when their new keyboards get stuck or their cables get so thin they break. It sucks if you rely on using the F-keys and they decide replacing it with some weird touch-bar. I think they're going in a direction where they leave me behind as a potential customer. But at least they try stuff. At least they have a way of dealing with consumer needs that doesn't come down to RTF-(900 page)-M. They're the only computer company who even has a clue about UX design and that's why they're successful.
The time I save configuring and dealing with general pain, priced at my hourly rate, would cover the extra cost in a couple of weeks and that's why professionals, especially those who do not work in IT for a living, prefer Macs.
Linux is not POSIX compliant, you do not have portability guaranteed. And given how out of date many OS X system binaries are without something like Brew, bash scripts that work fine on Linux might not work on OS X.
Is POSIX compliance actually useful now? I've never heard any reasons why it benefits Apple. I understand it means some program compatibility, and I'm sure back when there was a lot more UNIX competition it was beneficial for interoperability, but I doubt people would buy a Mac and expect to use it like a Solaris box, especially since POSIX guarantees nothing when you move into graphical interfaces.
To sum it up, it's the software and ecosystem that make macs and apple unique. We're about half a decade past the point where apple's hardware was noticeable beyond the competition. Whenever google and Android can offer a comprehensive package better than apple (hint hint: fix the fragmentation in their messaging apps), that's when I will sell off my apple gear and move back.
If the Ming-Chi Kuo rumor turn out real, then a Pro redesign should be appearing this year. It's been accurate so far about the new iPads and AirPods 2nd Gen, though it got the size of the Air wrong. Hopefully redesign means new keyboard and no Touch Bar.
I heard they're about to drop Intel CPUs in favor of some custom ones, which would be terrible, IMO.
Well, it's probably coming in the next 2 years, yes. If you consider that "soon". However, this won't be "terrible" at all, in fact, it'll be the biggest boon for Mac in years. Just like PowerPC stopped evolving and something better arrived, so has Intel—where the successor is Apple's much more power efficient, performant, and more secure Ax-series of CPUs.
Given OS level compatibility, and provided applications use the correct APIs, the transition shouldn't be too bad. Of course, all the big players use SPI's too, so it'll be a few years of turbulence. But I won't mind being freed of Meltdown, Spectre, Intel's ME engine, and their poorly documented x86 architecture.
I'm not worried about the hardware per se, I'm worried about the fact that moving closer to the iPhone hardware model is very likely a step towards the iPhone software model: locked bootloaders, walled gardens, and approved developers only (from whom Apple takes a healthy 30% cut of every sale). I doubt it'll come with the first generation of custom chips, but I'm nervous about what we'll see 5 years down the line.
I don't agree here, to be honest. Apple is fully aware of the distinction between Mac & iPad, and going forward, I expect the "openness" of Mac compared to iPhone & iPad to actually be one of its defining features. Let's be honest, 90% of people actually don't need to cruft of a unix filesystem or complex programs like automator, disk utility, or a terminal. Expect iPad to fulfil more & more of general consumer tasks going forward, while Mac will always be on the bleeding edge of performance and openness. It's still a balance though. A locked bootloader ensures a full chain of trust that right now is only provided on iPhone & iPad; I expect (and hope) that this feature makes its way to macOS eventually.
Given that any macOS ARM chips would likely be derived from the A-series processors powering iPhone & iPad, which already feature locked bootloaders & a secure enclave, it makes sense this would be a feature from day one. I personally can't wait.
I'll preface this by saying I know I'm in the significant minority - that's actually one of my big worries, that we'll be ignored because it doesn't hurt the bottom line that much.
The "chain of trust" you describe is exactly what worries me, and to me it's fundamentally incompatible with "openness". It moves the final say about what happens on my machine from me to Apple, and that means that when their interests are in conflict with my own, they win - that's a much bigger issue for me on the device my livelihood depends on than it is on my phone. It's also what I expect to ramp up over that ~5 years - from showing "look, you had nothing to worry about" by leaving it almost fully open, to adding a few minor rules (enforcing app signing but handing out keys freely, perhaps), to full anti-competitive behaviour (our store, our rules).
I genuinely like Apple and their products, but I don't trust any company with the keys to the kingdom. It needn't even be a case of malice - I just don't want them having the majority vote when there's an honest disagreement about what I'm allowed to do with my hardware.
That's what most people don't get it. That's why things like DRM exists now.
It's my hardware and i should do with it as i please. I don't want anybody controlling me.
And that's why my pc is 8+ years old and running perfectly fine and my smartphones are unlocked and i don't have to buy another one just to be able to upgrade the OS and not be vulnerable.
We need choices. I don't want to be forced to buy everything again after some time.
I don't really care what Apple does, because i'll never buy something from them (specially after ditching the headphone jack), but i don't want everybody to follow. AMD is a good compromise for now.
This has always been since the conception of Apple when Steve Jobs disagreed with the openness of hardware with Steve Wozniak, people are not forced to buy Apple products and we have choices as Windows or Linux machines.
That's why i want Librem 5 Phone to be a success so much. I don't get my hopes high, but maybe they will be the beginning of something. Probably not, but maybe.
I am also open for Librem 5 or LineageOS.
Depends. It'd be a PITA for people who buy Macs for dual booting, or otherwise rely on PC compatibility, but taken on their own merits, Apple's custom ARM chips are some of the best in the business. The A12X in the iPad compares favorably with high end laptop and midrange desktop CPUs at a fraction of the power consumption
This is important coverage, but man is that broken-keyboard gimmick tedious to read. At first I assumed it was just the headline or first paragraph, but incredibly WSJ allowed the whole article to go to press like this.
Mine just says
Loading interactive content..., even after turning off uBlock.Do you allow 3rd party scripts? I had to allow JS and XHR from wsj.net for it to work.
Check your console logs. Open developer tools (
Ctrl+Shift+Iin Chrome; check your browser's menu otherwise) and find the "Console" tab. It should tell you what messed up.https://i.imgur.com/ApKn0um.png
My output with DDG/uBlock off. I'm definitely not an expert here!
It's not on your side. The service they use to deliver the JS libraries the website uses seems to be down, and without the libraries – which are often used to create special content, such as the toggles that you can't see and the text modification associated with it – the page can't be presented properly.
It's strange that you have this problem, though. I've just loaded the page again – the second time, the first being right after I saw your comment – and it's working fine for me. The library-delivery service –
jsdelivr.net– I can't access. It should be that I wouldn't see the toggles, either, but I do.Offtopic/meta... but I was about to edit the title to "fix" it, since it didn't match the URL slug, before realizing it was intentional. They almost got me. ;)
That's two mods that were almost fooled now, since Deimos almost "fixed" it, too. :)
Also, whoever is in charge of URL slugs at WSJ has no chill or sense of humor!
Make that three. I spotted this duplicate posting of this article, and opened it to fix the title... which eventually led me here.
Or has an amazing sense of humor. :P
Or doesn't use a MacBook!
"Oof, ouch... too soon." -Macbook Users
I'm actually going to bring my MBP (2017) in tomorrow for this exact issue ('e' and 'n' for me). I love macOS and I love the hardware feel and quality (this issue notwithstanding), but I just can't recommend the current MacBook lineup. The keyboard issue is too much of a dealbreaker.
Does the warranty fully cover it, at least? I would almost expect Apple to extend the warranty for this particular issue, if they haven't already, too... since it seems like a pretty common and persistent problem.
Yes, the keyboard fix itself will be free thanks to the Keeyboard Serevice Program for affected models even if they're out of warranty. However, the issue for me is that my MBP is my daily driver and I really don't like not havinng it for a week.
(Typos preeserved for accuracy.)
It's covered by the Keyboard Replacement Program for 2016-2017 year MacBook Pros. I also had the same issue, but with my 2018 MBP, which has the "revised" design to minimize dust & debris ingress. The 'e' key would repeat occasionally, and it was incredibly annoying.
It took over a week for the Apple Authorized Service Provider to fix the issue and return the laptop to me.
Has anyone had any experience with apple service with this stuff, out of curiosity? I've traditionally been an apple-hater (I had a macbook pro through highschool - which, in hindsight, was clearly a lemon/from a bad batch as I had tons of issues that noone else I could find could replicate - but it gave me a bad impression of the brand for a long time), but warmed more up to them recently after finally taking my mbp to an apple store to get it fixed and having a great experience with the whole repair process - I still don't like them much, and I'm typing this from my main Dell machine but their repair was smoother than most other tech I've owned (though granted, I usually don't go through the manufacturer). So I'm curious if they're acknowledging the problems and making replacements easy for those with it or if they're trying to downplay it's significance like it seems.
I sent my laptop in about two weeks ago, on a saturday evening (dropped it off at an Apple store). Took about 10 minutes at the store, and they tried replacing the problem keys a la carte, then shipped it off to the repair center.
The entire top case (including battery!) was replaced free of charge, and I got it back wednesday morning (I believe it was shipped out on monday). All in all, not a bad experience, just wish it didn't have to be an experience.
An interesting note-- the keyboard I now have on it is slightly different than the original (alt and ctrl have the symbol for them on the keys, and alt now only says option on it), so not sure why that happened. Either way, it works well now.
Sounds like a new model of keyboard (maybe with more issues fixed? I remember a friend of mine who got his replaced said his was different upon return, but I don't remember specifically why) and sounds like a similar experience to when I sent mine in, so good to know should I even own an Apple product again (especially the battery replacement!). I agree though, shouldn't have to be an experience in the first place - in the same vein as my current machine (A Dell XPS), with 'premium' devices in their price range, things like this shouldn't be an issue in the first place. Not that they should with any device per se, but I'd like to think that I'm paying a certain premium for build quality as well and not just the visual appeal.
The fact that half of the laptop had to be replaced to remove a spec of dust from a key is very worrying. How much will this cost to replace after apple finishes replacing them for free?
It actually wasn't the dust that caused this issue specifically (at least, how it seems), it was an issue with the actual butterfly mechanism under that one key.
My macbook air had a known faulty ssd and the store tried to charge $500 to replace it. Also everyone I know with a macbook has had the charging cable fail.
Yikes - I think the only thing that didn't fail on my macbook was the charger. Do macbook airs not have user-servicable ssds? I know the new ones definitely don't, but mine (release 2009-10ish? Ill have to check) did, so I assumed all the older models do. $500 for a faulty drive is definitely pretty steep, even if it was a massive drive.
2 people at work got the new macbook keyboard about 3 years apart. Both of them had the keyboard fail. The most recent one was one dev got it at the start of the year and one of the keys failed after only one month of use. They replaced the keyboard and now I see that dev constantly using canned air on it to stop any dust getting on it.
It's an absolute shame. I have a 15-inch, 2016 and the space bar is starting to go. It's unconscionable for a computer to cost this much and be unreliable.
I really like the current MacBook keyboards feel but I have to send mine in once I'm home as well, since my 'A' button needs to be clicked with quite some pressure for it to work
Nice headline OP +1! Made me actually LOOK at TFA to realize that you must be using an Apple computer! LOL And when I saw "butterfly keyboard" in the preface, I immediately recalled the old Thinkpad that IBM introduced with a "butterfly" keyboard that kinda popped up and expanded when you opened the lid. Looked cool. Worked, less than that. I don't know if they even sold any.
I'm just curious, does anyone else here think that the author of the article is probably one of those people who at a part keeps repeating a not-funny joke over and over to every person at the party all night. Then repeats it to all her friends for ten years?
A paragraph of missing letters - ok we get the point.
But the whole article?
(I admit that I find the quality of web-journalism abyssmal, and I'm being kind because this is my first tildes posting LOL)
You know you've passed the "getting" old point when you not only aren't creating the latest memes but also don't get references to the latest ones. Might be time to hang up my keyboard.
(the one referenced did make me lol when I finally heard the story)