The 'funded by ads' business model of the Internet is a mistake that should have been learned from looking at television news. I wonder what could replace it?
The 'funded by ads' business model of the Internet is a mistake that should have been learned from looking at television news. I wonder what could replace it?
I think that's the problem -- we're all so used to free stuff that it's hard to make a case for paying for anything. But content creators/platform runners need money to live on / run their...
I think that's the problem -- we're all so used to free stuff that it's hard to make a case for paying for anything. But content creators/platform runners need money to live on / run their platforms, so it's kind of an impossible problem.
Honestly, I think the best thing to do would be some kind of generous UBI or the abolishment of money altogether, but that would require a complete overhaul of the entire world economy, society, and culture into a post-scarcity utopia.
I think this is a bit unfair to say. I'm extremely anti-ad, but I also really, really, really like the fact that information, overall, is free. And even if the ad-based model is imperfect, it's...
we're all so used to free stuff that it's hard to make a case for paying for anything
I think this is a bit unfair to say. I'm extremely anti-ad, but I also really, really, really like the fact that information, overall, is free. And even if the ad-based model is imperfect, it's only gotten really bad since the high quality content creators have started moving to a mostly-free model (Patreon).
Patreon models are fascinating. Altruism (You pay so EVERYONE has access), encouraged by perks (You pay so ONLY YOU get this extra). It also kinda contradicts "hard to make a case for paying for anything". People pay to just get their names at the end of a video. Or even just to say they paid.
I'm so outside the whole patreon model, I didn't realize this. You make a good point. I might've just been partying what I've read elsewhere. However, what I said still is true, at least for me,...
I'm so outside the whole patreon model, I didn't realize this. You make a good point. I might've just been partying what I've read elsewhere.
However, what I said still is true, at least for me, and for major newspapers etc. I haven't read nytimes for ages because I can't without paying. And I still think that a post scarcity model (i.e., you don't have to worry about making money because you can survive regardless) is best.
One of my greatest hopes is that I live long enough to see the beginnings of a post scarcity economy develop in the world. Just think of all the art, culture and innovation that might spring forth...
One of my greatest hopes is that I live long enough to see the beginnings of a post scarcity economy develop in the world. Just think of all the art, culture and innovation that might spring forth when people are finally freed from the burden of worrying about basic subsistence!
Yeah, I'm not holding my breath either, but I am at least cautiously optimistic about it... especially now that UBI has started entering the public discourse/consciousness and a lot of younger...
Yeah, I'm not holding my breath either, but I am at least cautiously optimistic about it... especially now that UBI has started entering the public discourse/consciousness and a lot of younger folks seem to be rather open/excited about the idea.
I mean, I think it's definitely possible, just not for the next, say, 5 or 10 generations. Like how climate change won't suck forever, just for the lifetimes of my children and theirs for maybe...
I mean, I think it's definitely possible, just not for the next, say, 5 or 10 generations. Like how climate change won't suck forever, just for the lifetimes of my children and theirs for maybe 800 years or so.
Which is, interestingly, a form of personal advertising. I get why creators do it though, especially the ones who are scraping by on YouTube and patreon revenue.
People pay to just get their names at the end of a video
Which is, interestingly, a form of personal advertising. I get why creators do it though, especially the ones who are scraping by on YouTube and patreon revenue.
That's pretty much the point of stuff like syndicalism or any left-wing libertarian theory. Teach people how to live post money/government then abandon those institutions.
That's pretty much the point of stuff like syndicalism or any left-wing libertarian theory. Teach people how to live post money/government then abandon those institutions.
I believe the issue is bigger than that. It is not just that we're used to getting stuff for free, but there's an excess of certain kinds of stuff — enough for users to be in a bargaining...
we're all so used to free stuff that it's hard to make a case for paying for anything
I believe the issue is bigger than that. It is not just that we're used to getting stuff for free, but there's an excess of certain kinds of stuff — enough for users to be in a bargaining position.
My attention and time are limited, and if there are 200 websites, games, apps, social media platforms, etc, fighting for my engagement, so those services will have to put in a substantial amount of effort to earn my preference.
We have a lot to choose from, and after the third or fourth superfluous subscription people tend to get selective.
Besides, for most people, the bad things we see on Reddit or Twitter are essentially invisible.
So it makes sense for these companies to adopt heavily advertised or obnoxious freemium models.
Yes! And my point is, that those models only make sense in this constant growth, capitalistic model. It's fine that people make things, they always have. But the problem comes when they need to...
Yes! And my point is, that those models only make sense in this constant growth, capitalistic model. It's fine that people make things, they always have. But the problem comes when they need to sell them to survive.
Everyone frankly, is to blame for the current situation. Users & consumers want internet content for cheap/free, at well below poverty rates for the content creators involved—hell, take a look at...
Everyone frankly, is to blame for the current situation. Users & consumers want internet content for cheap/free, at well below poverty rates for the content creators involved—hell, take a look at Tildes. Deimos is earning below poverty-line income from this site. This leads to ads being often the only significant source of revenue for creators. This leads to other entities wanting to maximise profit via ad models, which leads to invasive tracking and privacy breaches.
But: not all forms of ad content are bad at the same time. Take a look at Gruber's Daring Fireball. He does a sponsored post a couple of times a week, and a single linked image in his sidebar. Otherwise, no tracking of user information, no javascript, and no cookies. In exchange, consumers of his work get literally free content. That's an aspirational model that only a few can pull off though.
Worker ownership of the means of production? Idk but what if we all owned a bunch of web servers and used IPFS to host the web? I mean apparently IPFS (or was it Solid?) is a dumpster fire but I...
Worker ownership of the means of production? Idk but what if we all owned a bunch of web servers and used IPFS to host the web? I mean apparently IPFS (or was it Solid?) is a dumpster fire but I mean a non fire version of IPFS.
Here's the official blog post, which I found kind of confusing since the ad they're showing off seems to be for "plants" and not something more obvious.
Here's the official blog post, which I found kind of confusing since the ad they're showing off seems to be for "plants" and not something more obvious.
This screenshot makes it look like a third of the screen is now eaten by bullshit nav headers and ads. Whenever I still visit reddit, it's a couple of panicky seconds scrambling to find the button...
There have been a few over the years, but I don't think any of them have ever gotten much use. I've never paid much attention to them, so I'm not sure how complete their features are. A couple I...
There have been a few over the years, but I don't think any of them have ever gotten much use. I've never paid much attention to them, so I'm not sure how complete their features are. A couple I know of offhand:
Update all your bookmarks to old.reddit.com, otherwise the option to use the usable Reddit will “mysteriously” disappear all the time… until they decide to remove it completely.
Update all your bookmarks to old.reddit.com, otherwise the option to use the usable Reddit will “mysteriously” disappear all the time… until they decide to remove it completely.
It hasn't for me. I have the user setting which forces "classic" Reddit, and it never disappears or changes. I always see "classic" Reddit even on www.reddit.com.
Update all your bookmarks to old.reddit.com, otherwise the option to use the usable Reddit will “mysteriously” disappear all the time…
It hasn't for me. I have the user setting which forces "classic" Reddit, and it never disappears or changes. I always see "classic" Reddit even on www.reddit.com.
The 'funded by ads' business model of the Internet is a mistake that should have been learned from looking at television news. I wonder what could replace it?
I think that's the problem -- we're all so used to free stuff that it's hard to make a case for paying for anything. But content creators/platform runners need money to live on / run their platforms, so it's kind of an impossible problem.
Honestly, I think the best thing to do would be some kind of generous UBI or the abolishment of money altogether, but that would require a complete overhaul of the entire world economy, society, and culture into a post-scarcity utopia.
I think this is a bit unfair to say. I'm extremely anti-ad, but I also really, really, really like the fact that information, overall, is free. And even if the ad-based model is imperfect, it's only gotten really bad since the high quality content creators have started moving to a mostly-free model (Patreon).
Patreon models are fascinating. Altruism (You pay so EVERYONE has access), encouraged by perks (You pay so ONLY YOU get this extra). It also kinda contradicts "hard to make a case for paying for anything". People pay to just get their names at the end of a video. Or even just to say they paid.
I'm so outside the whole patreon model, I didn't realize this. You make a good point. I might've just been partying what I've read elsewhere.
However, what I said still is true, at least for me, and for major newspapers etc. I haven't read nytimes for ages because I can't without paying. And I still think that a post scarcity model (i.e., you don't have to worry about making money because you can survive regardless) is best.
One of my greatest hopes is that I live long enough to see the beginnings of a post scarcity economy develop in the world. Just think of all the art, culture and innovation that might spring forth when people are finally freed from the burden of worrying about basic subsistence!
Me too. I'm not holding my breath though.
Yeah, I'm not holding my breath either, but I am at least cautiously optimistic about it... especially now that UBI has started entering the public discourse/consciousness and a lot of younger folks seem to be rather open/excited about the idea.
I mean, I think it's definitely possible, just not for the next, say, 5 or 10 generations. Like how climate change won't suck forever, just for the lifetimes of my children and theirs for maybe 800 years or so.
Which is, interestingly, a form of personal advertising. I get why creators do it though, especially the ones who are scraping by on YouTube and patreon revenue.
That's pretty much the point of stuff like syndicalism or any left-wing libertarian theory. Teach people how to live post money/government then abandon those institutions.
I believe the issue is bigger than that. It is not just that we're used to getting stuff for free, but there's an excess of certain kinds of stuff — enough for users to be in a bargaining position.
My attention and time are limited, and if there are 200 websites, games, apps, social media platforms, etc, fighting for my engagement, so those services will have to put in a substantial amount of effort to earn my preference.
We have a lot to choose from, and after the third or fourth superfluous subscription people tend to get selective.
Besides, for most people, the bad things we see on Reddit or Twitter are essentially invisible.
So it makes sense for these companies to adopt heavily advertised or obnoxious freemium models.
Yes! And my point is, that those models only make sense in this constant growth, capitalistic model. It's fine that people make things, they always have. But the problem comes when they need to sell them to survive.
Everyone frankly, is to blame for the current situation. Users & consumers want internet content for cheap/free, at well below poverty rates for the content creators involved—hell, take a look at Tildes. Deimos is earning below poverty-line income from this site. This leads to ads being often the only significant source of revenue for creators. This leads to other entities wanting to maximise profit via ad models, which leads to invasive tracking and privacy breaches.
But: not all forms of ad content are bad at the same time. Take a look at Gruber's Daring Fireball. He does a sponsored post a couple of times a week, and a single linked image in his sidebar. Otherwise, no tracking of user information, no javascript, and no cookies. In exchange, consumers of his work get literally free content. That's an aspirational model that only a few can pull off though.
Worker ownership of the means of production? Idk but what if we all owned a bunch of web servers and used IPFS to host the web? I mean apparently IPFS (or was it Solid?) is a dumpster fire but I mean a non fire version of IPFS.
Here's the official blog post, which I found kind of confusing since the ad they're showing off seems to be for "plants" and not something more obvious.
Wouldn't exactly be that appealing to advertisers if it was for "Gamer Girl Bath Water" now would it?
It's like one of those old-school ads. "Plants. Buy plants. Plants good." (Paid for by the Plants lobby)
Anyone else Hungry for Apples?
This screenshot makes it look like a third of the screen is now eaten by bullshit nav headers and ads. Whenever I still visit reddit, it's a couple of panicky seconds scrambling to find the button to return to the old HTML. Even on my microscopic iPhone SE screen since it's still less infuriating there. They still give you the option but it mysteriously "deactivates" every other visit. I wonder why.
Just a third eaten up? I only see one actual post in that screenshot. Thank God for old reddit and 3rd party clients.
I'm honestly surprised nobody's done an Invidious/Nitter style Web based front end for Reddit yet
There have been a few over the years, but I don't think any of them have ever gotten much use. I've never paid much attention to them, so I'm not sure how complete their features are. A couple I know of offhand:
There are also various "novelty" ones that aren't actually very usable, like:
You don't even need to type "old" in the URL. There's a user setting which presents "classic" Reddit even on www.reddit.com.
I always stay logged in. I hate the default Reddit front page. I want to see my subscriptions, not the crap that floods the rest of the site.
Update all your bookmarks to old.reddit.com, otherwise the option to use the usable Reddit will “mysteriously” disappear all the time… until they decide to remove it completely.
Old Reddit Redirect to the rescue.
Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-CA/firefox/addon/old-reddit-redirect/
Chrome: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/old-reddit-redirect/dneaehbmnbhcippjikoajpoabadpodje
It hasn't for me. I have the user setting which forces "classic" Reddit, and it never disappears or changes. I always see "classic" Reddit even on www.reddit.com.
Ah, interesting, thanks!