17 votes

My Thoughts and Ideas For Tildes

I have lots of thoughts about Tildes that I end up forgetting. This post is my attempt to put them to good use. Some of those were already stated elsewhere.

Introduction

Just to make it very clear: I am extremely happy with the way things are going on Tildes. If that was not the case, instead of drawing criticism I would simply not be here. So, please, let's be civil and avoid taking things personally ;)

I'm also a regular user, so please be gentle with my ignorance regarding the technical reasons why some things are either impossible or unpractical.

1. An Answer To A Common Objection

Some of these suggestions may encounter the following answer: "this should be an extension, not a core feature". To which I might respond:

  1. Extensions impact performance and it's good practice to keep them at a minimum
  2. Not everyone uses the same browser.
  3. Features implemented by the actual developers will probably be of a better quality

2. Golden Rule

Unless explicit or clearly unpractical, all suggestions should be interpreted as to be as optional (and preferably opt-in) as possible for the user. I'll also make frequent use of the imperative mood: please understand that those are still suggestions. The imperative mood is just more practical. Also, notice that this is not my first language.

3. Suggestions

3.1 Keyboard Shortcuts

The majority of Tildes users would probably welcome a good set of keyboard shortcuts. I apologize if such keyboard shortcuts already exist: if they do, there should be a page listing them all.

3.1.1 Vim-like and Emacs-like keybindings

There should be Vim-like and Emacs-like (you could choose which one!) keys all around. Even with things like Vimium, not everyone uses them, and a well-thought-out set of keybindings would be extremely beneficial.

This also applies to text fields.

4. Open Calls For Moderators

Right now, I'm not sure what criteria are being used to give someone moderator powers. I think being a developer or contributor is the main criterion, which makes a lot of sense. But other participants might be up to the task, and giving them a chance could be beneficial.

5. Moderation Action Should Always Present Reason

This may seem obvious and even unfair, but I think when a moderator is in no condition to dedicate the time to justify their moderation action (such as locking threads, removing contents or banning users), then the moderator should wait until this condition is met in order to take action.

6. Heated Discussions Should Be Allowed in More Circumstances

I understand Tildes is, and should always be, a place for politeness, even affectionate discussion, but sometimes heated language, including irony and sarcasm, are necessary to stress a point and take the discussion forward. I understand that's a fine line, and that is usually better err on the side of caution, but I also feel the need to caution my fellow Tilders and Tildes administration against excessive moderation, which could stifle the discussion of sensitive subjects

7. There Should Be a Page Explaining How to Collaborate

This page should be short and to the point, with lots of links. I, for instance, wanna collaborate in the documentation, but the information telling how to do so was in a comment I cannot find anymore.

8. Table of Contents

Tildes markdown should support the automated creation of a simple table of contents, which would be very useful for longer posts. Preferably, there should be a limited set of options, such as:

  • title of the table of contents ("TOC", "Table of Contents", "Contents" etc)
  • numbered vs unnumbered
  • depth of the numbering

9. Search own content

I find very hard to search my own content. Sometimes I must reference something I said earlier, or adapt a previous response to a question I already answered. On these occasions, I have to manually Ctrl+f page after page of my user page, which is tedious and inefficient.

10. Sort my own content

I wish I could sort my own content in the same manner I can with other pages. This would help with item 9, and also help answer faster to comments that were recently made.

11. Notifications

I wish it was possible to op-in desktop notifications for Tildes to show me whenever I get an answer to a thread, a comment or a private message.

Correction: I'm not referring to Email notifications, but desktop notifications. The ones that appear occasionally on your browser or screen.

12. There Should Be Space for Comedy

I'm not saying Tildes should become a place for lazy memes and endless puns, but comedy is valuable content and I don't like the idea of Tildes being a more conversational version of Stack Overflow. I fully agree with @deimos vision for a website for meaningful interactions with a focus on privacy. I just don't think comedy is necessarily a menace to this and all the other Tildes' stated goals. Right now, we're a very serious bunch of folks. There should be a place for humor in Tildes. How would that work? IDK. I leave this open for discussion.

13. Link to Excerpt

It would be awesome being able to link not just to a particular comment, but to a selection of that particular comment. After linking to the excerpt, I would go to the full comment, but the excerpt would be highlighted.

Conclusion

This is more of a collection of thoughts than an article, therefore I cannot offer a proper conclusion. But I'd like to kindly ask my fellow Tilders to give some considerations to my ideas. And please understand that they are not complaints. It's just may to contribute to this great community.

Cheers ;)

27 comments

  1. [5]
    skybrian
    Link
    Re: 6, I disagree that irony and sarcasm are necessary for anything good. Sure, it's something we all indulge in, but it seems more like a bad habit, particularly online where it can easily be...

    Re: 6, I disagree that irony and sarcasm are necessary for anything good. Sure, it's something we all indulge in, but it seems more like a bad habit, particularly online where it can easily be misinterpreted. (Still, I wouldn't want to be too strict about it.)

    It sounds like you think Tildes might be a bit too tightly moderated in places, but this is more a concern than something that's ongoing?

    19 votes
    1. [2]
      kfwyre
      Link Parent
      I'll echo this. One of my favorite things about Tildes is that the comments here feel earnest and straightforward. I don't check reddit often, but when I do I'm always struck by the sheer number...

      I'll echo this. One of my favorite things about Tildes is that the comments here feel earnest and straightforward. I don't check reddit often, but when I do I'm always struck by the sheer number of jokes and hot takes steeped in layers of irony and sarcasm.

      I understand lots of people like those (I'm not immune to enjoying them sometimes myself), and there should definitely be a place for them, but I don't want Tildes to be that place. I love that people speak without pretense here. This place feels more honest, direct, and, consequently, human than anywhere else online right now. I think normalizing irony and sarcasm would likely disrupt that.

      17 votes
      1. timo
        Link Parent
        Totally agree with you. The first five top comments on a random sub are usually jokes. Then you get joke replies. And when someone, who isn't on reddit 24/7, doesn't understand the joke, they get...

        I don't check reddit often, but when I do I'm always struck by the sheer number of jokes and hot takes steeped in layers of irony and sarcasm.

        Totally agree with you. The first five top comments on a random sub are usually jokes. Then you get joke replies. And when someone, who isn't on reddit 24/7, doesn't understand the joke, they get downvoted to oblivion with "whoosh" replies.

        On Tildes, I feel users express themselves well, in an honest and clear way. This makes jumping into discussion so much easier. There is no need to understand all the meta content, because there is so little.

        9 votes
    2. [2]
      mrbig
      Link Parent
      Irony and sarcasm are definitely not necessarily a good thing, but they can be a good thing in moderation. I do think Tildes over-moderated on some occasions, but no one is perfect, that happens...

      Re: 6, I disagree that irony and sarcasm are necessary for anything good

      Irony and sarcasm are definitely not necessarily a good thing, but they can be a good thing in moderation. I do think Tildes over-moderated on some occasions, but no one is perfect, that happens everywhere. That was not the reason for my proposal. I'm focused on the future of our discussions.

      7 votes
      1. Gaywallet
        Link Parent
        For what it's worth I've included a good deal of irony and sarcasm in my replies and never had them moderated for that reason. I believe the key is to ensure they are quite obviously irony or...

        For what it's worth I've included a good deal of irony and sarcasm in my replies and never had them moderated for that reason. I believe the key is to ensure they are quite obviously irony or sarcasm - if there's doubt as to whether it was meant to be ironic or sarcastic, someone will more easily find it reasonable to remove.

        4 votes
  2. Bauke
    (edited )
    Link
    Various links and quotes from Deimos that address some of your thoughts: https://gitlab.com/tildes/tildes/issues/251 Development Setup Development Contributing document Static Sites' Contributions...

    Various links and quotes from Deimos that address some of your thoughts:

    3 Keyboard Shortcuts


    5 Moderation Action Should Always Present Reason

    One of the problems with giving reasons for bans is that unless it's already a really blatant and obvious case, you simply can't do a thorough job of explaining the history that led up to it. And the reasons for these more long-term cases that are more about behavior don't sound as serious either, because there's no simple, egregious issue to point to. [...]


    7 There Should Be a Page Explaining How to Collaborate

    Also, if anyone is ever stuck with something while contributing or just has questions feel free to join us in one of the unofficial chats. I'm in the Discord and Keybase one and willing to help anyone out if needed and I'm sure there's other people in the other chats that are willing too. :)


    8 Table of Contents


    9 Search own content


    10 Sort my own content

    You can already sort your topics by relevant activity/most votes/most comments/newest/all activity and comments by newest/most votes on your profile. https://gitlab.com/tildes/tildes/issues/189


    11 Notifications

    This could be a bit of a controversial decision (that I'm honestly not totally certain about), but I'm going to close this. I think browser notifications are hugely over-used, and really aren't necessary for something like Tildes. People should choose when they want to check the site, not have it shoved in front of them all the time just because someone replied to one of their comments or something similar. There's nothing that people urgently need to know about.

    9 votes
  3. [2]
    JXM
    Link
    I found it funny that you say you’re just a regular user and then suggest vim/emacs key bindings for shortcuts. But in all seriousness, notifications would be welcome. As for moderation of content...

    I found it funny that you say you’re just a regular user and then suggest vim/emacs key bindings for shortcuts.

    But in all seriousness, notifications would be welcome.

    As for moderation of content coming with an explanation, I think that’s good in theory. But it also opens up the conversation for people to start arguing over individual decisions more and more. I don’t know that that is a good thing.

    13 votes
    1. mrbig
      Link Parent
      Well, I'm a regular user in the meaning that I'm a computer nerd, but not a computer programmer and certainly not a Tildes developer. Opening up an avenue for aguing is certainly bad, but can be...

      I found it funny that you say you’re just a regular user and then suggest vim/emacs key bindings for shortcuts.

      Well, I'm a regular user in the meaning that I'm a computer nerd, but not a computer programmer and certainly not a Tildes developer.

      it also opens up the conversation for people to start arguing over individual decisions more and more. I don’t know that that is a good thing.

      Opening up an avenue for aguing is certainly bad, but can be solved with a simple rule: "After the first message containing the explanation, do not engage". And the comment containing the explanation should be locked by default.

      When you get moderated without explanation, any theory you have about the reason for the moderation action can become true for you. This is bad.

      It can also feel extremely unfair and even random, generating further bad behavior. And, on a more fundamental level, If I don't know what I got wrong, how can I make an effort to do better next time?

  4. [4]
    pallas
    Link
    With regards to 6, and the implication I read in 4 and 5 that moderation is too strict and opaque: one of the beautiful things about the internet is the diversity in how its different sites are...

    With regards to 6, and the implication I read in 4 and 5 that moderation is too strict and opaque: one of the beautiful things about the internet is the diversity in how its different sites are organized and run. Instead of trying to discuss how Tildes should be run in isolation, supposing that it should include all discussion of value, I would propose that we see it in relation to other sites run in different ways.

    Spaces for heated language and fought-over moderation abound elsewhere on the internet. We should let Tildes be a space, instead, for decent discussion and trusted moderators. If there is some discussion of value that is by consequence not possible on Tildes, there are no shortage of other spaces where those discussions would be welcomed.

    7 votes
    1. [3]
      mrbig
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Thank you very much for answering! This is not my first language. I found some definitions for "opaque" here: So an "opaque" moderation could be an obscure one that is hard to understand. If...

      Thank you very much for answering!

      This is not my first language. I found some definitions for "opaque" here:

      (of a substance) preventing light from traveling through, and therefore not allowing you to see through it:

      • opaque watercolors

      Opaque also means difficult to understand:

      • The majority of readers found his poetry difficult, even opaque.

      So an "opaque" moderation could be an obscure one that is hard to understand. If that's what you're implying, your interpretation is correct.

      Instead of trying to discuss how Tildes should be run in isolation, supposing that it should include all discussion of value, I would propose that we see it in relation to other sites run in different ways.

      I agree that Tildes should not try to "include all discussion of value". What I'm advocating is more leniency for a very specific type of discourse within Tildes. There are numerous types of discourse that I do not want on Tildes at all.

      We should let Tildes be a space, instead, for decent discussion and trusted moderators.

      I agree with that entirely and see no logical opposition between my views and this proposal.

      1 vote
      1. Wes
        Link Parent
        That's not quote right. Opaque just means the opposite of transparent. An opaque moderator decision is one which is not explained or made public. Just to provide some more context, this is based...

        This is not my first language. I found some definitions for "opaque" here ... So an "opaque" moderation could be an obscure one that is hard to understand.

        That's not quote right. Opaque just means the opposite of transparent. An opaque moderator decision is one which is not explained or made public.

        Just to provide some more context, this is based on the first definition you quoted above:

        (of a substance) preventing light from traveling through, and therefore not allowing you to see through it:

        Transparency lets light through (you can see what's happening), whereas opaqueness blocks all light. So it's a nice metaphor for accountability. Just note that other terms like "opacity" don't translate well to the metaphor, for whatever reason.

        4 votes
      2. pallas
        Link Parent
        To clarify for "opaque:" in the context of governance, "opaque" is often used as an antonym to the corresponding use of "transparent" in that context, eg, an "opaque process," where you can't see...

        To clarify for "opaque:" in the context of governance, "opaque" is often used as an antonym to the corresponding use of "transparent" in that context, eg, an "opaque process," where you can't see what is going on, vs a "transparent process," where you can. Thus "transparent moderation" would be moderation where the actions and motivations behind the actions are visible to everyone, where "opaque moderation" would be moderation where they are not visible.

        2 votes
  5. kfwyre
    Link
    This is quite the idea list! Thanks for being so thoughtful and constructive. I'll second my support for #9. I tried to find some older posts of mine recently and found myself wishing I could do a...

    This is quite the idea list! Thanks for being so thoughtful and constructive.

    I'll second my support for #9. I tried to find some older posts of mine recently and found myself wishing I could do a full user-search of all my content here, rather than going page by page in my history. It's an issue that's only going to get worse for me as my number of comments on the site grows.

    I'll also push back on #6. I think a lot of sites take a very individualistic focus on discussions, in that they are hesitant to limit the actions of any one individual without strong reason. In my mind, the goals of Tildes make this a place where we prioritize the collective, in that we are hesitant to permit the actions of any one individual when they are doing collective harm.

    There are merits and downsides to both, but I think the latter is the way to go if we want to cultivate the kind of community we desire here. I think one of the harder things to understand about hostility, sarcasm, irony, and combativeness is that their negative effects are often hidden. They feel effective because they're powerful and at times satisfying, but they also deal invisible damage. For example, I think it's probably safe to say that all of us have been in a situation where we have wanted to say something but didn't out of fear of hostile responses, either here or elsewhere. Probably all of us have felt the sting of someone responding to our honest and heartfelt beliefs with dismissive sarcasm. It's likely that everyone here has been put through the wringer for something they've said, when all they wanted to do was engage in casual conversation or make a quick point.

    Even if we're not party to the conversations, these things still have effects. It's not uncommon for us to read someone else's combative back and forth and feel angry, frustrated, or even steamrolled afterwards, despite us not even being involved! Conversations here create a feeling not just for the site itself but in the users of the site directly. When I read something delightful, I'm delighted, but when I read something awful I often feel, well, awful. Sometimes that awful feeling is necessary (e.g. a tragedy in the news), but sometimes we create it when we don't need to (e.g. when two people are bickering over semantics).

    Unfortunately, all these intangibles are largely invisible, and we don't have a meaningful way to account for them (and likely never will -- they're intangibles!). How many people have left this site because they encountered hostility from another user? How many people have limited their own posting so as not to potentially provoke someone else?

    In other forums, the focus would be on the rights of hostile or combative people to say their piece. I think it's important that we realize that there's a chilling effect to that, and we maybe need to think about the rights of all the other people who want to speak but are fearful or hesitant to do so.

    It's a hard thing to think about because absence is invisibility. The voices of the self-assured, the argumentative, and the sarcastic are already present all across the internet. You can barely get away from them. But what about everyone else? People who are unsure of things, have questions, are meek or mild-mannered.

    When it comes to moderation I feel like too often the question is "what voices are cut back when we moderate too strongly?" We're all familiar with the answer, because we've all seen the types of posts needing moderation on every internet forum since they first became a thing. What I think we need to ask, and what I hope Tildes will eventually have the ability to answer, is "what voices would be better enabled to speak and be heard if we moderate strongly?"

    6 votes
  6. ibis
    Link
    I agree with the point about comedy. Humour is an important part of community building, and it will increase activity to the site. I think it should be kept separate from actual discussions and...

    I agree with the point about comedy. Humour is an important part of community building, and it will increase activity to the site. I think it should be kept separate from actual discussions and put in it's own group.

    re: irony/sarcasm - you will never change anyone's mind with irony or sarcasm, you'll just drum up support amongst people who already agree with you.

    5 votes
  7. [8]
    Keegan
    (edited )
    Link
    I will address a few of these in one comment, but first I must state that I understand your reasoning behind this post and I don't think it will offend anyone. Also, your English is very good, and...

    I will address a few of these in one comment, but first I must state that I understand your reasoning behind this post and I don't think it will offend anyone. Also, your English is very good, and is better than many native speakers.

    1

    I agree with the statements here, but I must append that not all extensions should be added. This is sort of obvious that some obscure extension that performs a specific task for fringe users shouldn't be included.

    2

    I also think opt-in is the way to go for features. Perhaps when new ones are added a notification could be given to all users that has a link to where to set it.

    4

    For moderation, I think the greater powers such as banning and removing things will be in the hands of Deimos for a while. Smaller tasks like being able to tag posts, edit titles (?), and the like have been given to users if they ask nicely and have demonstrated they can be trusted with them. @Deimos can probably explain this much better than I can.

    5

    For this, I think it should at least wait until there are more mods with locking/removal powers, if that time ever comes. If Deimos gets a second to check if there are reports, he shouldn't have to wait to remove them if he has no time to write a good explanation. Also, sometimes explanations just cause more off-topic discussion that can get more heated. The few discussions we have had about banning users never turn out well for any involved. I would know, since I posted one.

    6

    I disagree here, since irony and sarcasm aren't inherently "heated." They are often used in conjunction with heated arguments though, which are often the result of bad faith discussion.

    7

    I'd use it.

    8

    I know what you mean here, and this would be very useful for long selfposts.

    9

    The search needs improvement in general imo. I can elaborate on this if anybody asks, but my train is almost at my stop so I am running short on time.

    11

    You didn't mention this, but an email notification would not be good imo. It would make deleting content impossible.


    Edit: change "user" --> "used" in #6.

    5 votes
    1. [7]
      mrbig
      Link Parent
      Thank you very much for answering! In order to be concise, I will not comment the topics in which we agree. I agree. Maybe that's not such a good idea. Feels invasive. A post on ~tides or...

      Thank you very much for answering!

      In order to be concise, I will not comment the topics in which we agree.

      not all extensions should be added

      I agree.

      a notification could be given to all users that has a link to where to set it

      Maybe that's not such a good idea. Feels invasive. A post on ~tides or ~tildes.official might be better.

      For moderation, I think the greater powers such as banning and removing things will be in the hands of Deimos for a while.

      The power to ban a user is usually something you would call an "admin power", not a "moderator power".

      Smaller tasks like being able to tag posts, edit titles (?), and the like have been given to users if they ask nicely and have demonstrated they can be trusted with them.

      In the future, we should require a formal process, but right now I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I DO think this should be more divulged - preferentially in the docs.

      For this, I think it should at least wait until there are more mods with locking/removal powers, if that time ever comes.

      That's fair. I'll present a counter-proposal: every mod action must present a reason within the next 12 hours. Also see this other answer I gave, which answers some of your concerns.

      I disagree here, since irony and sarcasm aren't inherently "heated." They are often used in conjunction with heated arguments though, which are often the result of bad faith discussion.

      You make a good point regarding the formulation of my question, but you do not address the question itself. If I eliminate "sarcasm and irony", what would be your stance? On the other hand, if I eliminate the heated nature of such discussions, what would be your stance?

      You didn't mention this, but an email notification would not be good imo. It would make deleting content impossible.

      The problem here is that it would go against a core fundamental o Tildes philosophy: your content is yours and yours alone. Of course, anyone can back it up, but it would go against Tildes' philosophy to automatically backup posts on email.

      2 votes
      1. [3]
        Seven
        Link Parent
        Could you elaborate on this? I agree that a post on ~tildes.official is probably a better option, but I don't really understand what you mean when you say that a notification feels invasive.

        Maybe that's not such a good idea. Feels invasive.

        Could you elaborate on this? I agree that a post on ~tildes.official is probably a better option, but I don't really understand what you mean when you say that a notification feels invasive.

        1 vote
        1. [2]
          mrbig
          Link Parent
          Maybe "invasive" was a bad choice of word. I meant "bothersome". An unwanted annoyance.

          Maybe "invasive" was a bad choice of word. I meant "bothersome". An unwanted annoyance.

          1. Seven
            Link Parent
            Okay that makes a lot more sense. Thanks for explaining!

            Okay that makes a lot more sense. Thanks for explaining!

      2. [3]
        Keegan
        Link Parent
        Yeah I contemplated that idea. I just think it might not always work because if a user has been gone for longer than a week they may not see that post. Hm yes that is the generally accepted term....

        Maybe that's not such a good idea. Feels invasive. A post on ~tides or ~tildes.official might be better.

        Yeah I contemplated that idea. I just think it might not always work because if a user has been gone for longer than a week they may not see that post.

        The power to ban a user is usually something you would call an "admin power", not a "moderator power".

        Hm yes that is the generally accepted term. Thanks.

        I DO think this should be more divulged - preferentially in the docs.

        Yeah this could be added in a rather concise way.

        I'll present a counter-proposal: every mod action must present a reason within the next 12 hours.

        That is more reasonable. The content from the malice tag could maybe be used (with indication that it is from the tag), but I think that could be harmful in case someone says "this user is being really mean to me in this thread, please stop them", which would make it obvious who reported it.

        If I eliminate "sarcasm and irony", what would be your stance?

        Heated discussions are allowed, and should be. The problem is that they turn into bad faith arguments fairly often in my eyes. This causes it to seem like they aren't allowed, but really it is just people getting too heated.

        On the other hand, if I eliminate the heated nature of such discussions, what would be your stance?

        I am fine with people using irony and sarcasm to get a point across. They're important parts of language that are very useful.

        The problem here is that it would go against a core fundamental o Tildes philosophy: your content is yours and yours alone. Of course, anyone can back it up, but it would go against Tildes' philosophy to automatically backup posts on email.

        We agree on this one :)
        My point was that email notifications aren't the way to go with Tildes' philosophy.

        1. [2]
          mrbig
          Link Parent
          Oh, I guess I did not express myself well then. I mean desktop notifications, the ones that appear occasionally on your browser or screen. I made a note on the post.

          My point was that email notifications aren't the way to go with Tildes' philosophy.

          Oh, I guess I did not express myself well then. I mean desktop notifications, the ones that appear occasionally on your browser or screen. I made a note on the post.

          1 vote
          1. Keegan
            Link Parent
            Oh yeah I know what you mean. Those would be nice yeah.

            Oh yeah I know what you mean. Those would be nice yeah.

  8. [5]
    SantalBlush
    Link
    5 is a great idea, but it doesn't go far enough. When a user is banned, their user page should explain why in narrative format, sparing no gory details. I want to know how the action unfolded:...

    5 is a great idea, but it doesn't go far enough. When a user is banned, their user page should explain why in narrative format, sparing no gory details. I want to know how the action unfolded: what were the first infractions, and where was the line crossed? I can't be the only one who wants this.

    1 vote
    1. [2]
      emdash
      Link Parent
      I'm going to cut to the chase and just say: if you get banned on Tildes, you probably deserve it. That's all the community needs to know. Why do we need this? I can't imagine the amount of stress...

      I'm going to cut to the chase and just say: if you get banned on Tildes, you probably deserve it. That's all the community needs to know.

      Why do we need this? I can't imagine the amount of stress and pain this would cause Deimos and other people who eventually step up to the role of managing user infractions—it reminds me vaguely of that argument of how open source is built on collective guilt that the maintainer carries as a burden. Can you imagine developing an open source platform, and moderating it? That's hell on Earth.

      Tildes is a discussion site. By allowing ban reasons to be listed, you're encouraging more drama, debate, and unrelated bullshit that actually, not many people care about. Focus on what Tildes is meant for, and let's all collectively drop the online voyeurism, make Deimos' life easier, and focus on the content, shall we?

      12 votes
      1. SantalBlush
        Link Parent
        I was being facetious. If I genuinely wanted this, I wouldn't have phrased it that way.

        I was being facetious. If I genuinely wanted this, I wouldn't have phrased it that way.

        1 vote
    2. mrbig
      Link Parent
      I agree relevant information should be provided, but a complete narration has the potential to create even more drama, hurting the community.

      their user page should explain why in narrative format, sparing no gory details.

      I agree relevant information should be provided, but a complete narration has the potential to create even more drama, hurting the community.

      6 votes
    3. spctrvl
      Link Parent
      I mean, it'd be cool to have a breakdown like that, but it's a pretty big burden on Deimos to have to do a writeup like that every time he bans someone, never mind the potential for meta drama.

      I mean, it'd be cool to have a breakdown like that, but it's a pretty big burden on Deimos to have to do a writeup like that every time he bans someone, never mind the potential for meta drama.

      6 votes