I'd rather sit for 30 minutes watching grass grow from my car at a random nowhere podunk gas station than being stranded 40 miles from the nearest charger because there wasn't any compelling POI...
I'd rather sit for 30 minutes watching grass grow from my car at a random nowhere podunk gas station than being stranded 40 miles from the nearest charger because there wasn't any compelling POI nearby.
All gas stations should have at least 1 fast charger available. Should be mandated into any new builds or renos.
I hope there will also be shelter requirements when building EV chargers. When I had first bought my Chevy Bolt and did not yet have charging at home I was frequently visiting the nearest public...
I hope there will also be shelter requirements when building EV chargers.
When I had first bought my Chevy Bolt and did not yet have charging at home I was frequently visiting the nearest public EV chargers, across town in an empty shopping center, and in the middle of the night due to my work. I had also needed to turn off my car to minimize my wait, which meant no heat in the middle of winter and at midnight. I live in upstate NY, so let me assure you that I was cold. I had to leave the shopping center & cross the Erie Canal to find an open bar where I could sit in heat. Adding insult to injury, I was discovering how unreliable most public chargers were, as I would recross the canal two or three times until the car was entirely charged. That was miserable.
I think this is a bit hyperbolic. The heater in an EV takes a few kW, maybe 3-5. The charger is delivering 50-150kW. You're not going to reduce your charge time by much by turning the heater off.
I had also needed to turn off my car to minimize my wait, which meant no heat in the middle of winter and at midnight.
I think this is a bit hyperbolic. The heater in an EV takes a few kW, maybe 3-5. The charger is delivering 50-150kW. You're not going to reduce your charge time by much by turning the heater off.
Just as a counterpoint, is it possible to turn on the heater without the entire car being on? I’m not saying there are genuine technical barriers, but if the car had to be fully on with loads of...
Just as a counterpoint, is it possible to turn on the heater without the entire car being on? I’m not saying there are genuine technical barriers, but if the car had to be fully on with loads of other features engaged and using power in order to run the heating, it might be more than your numbers suggest.
And even considering your numbers, if it was using 5kW and the charger was 50kW, that’s still a 10% increase in charging time. Not hugely significant, but still impactful.
That's very interesting. I wish that I'd understood that at the time, because crossing the Erie Canal in the middle of winter was miserable indeed. I think it was instructions from the charging...
That's very interesting. I wish that I'd understood that at the time, because crossing the Erie Canal in the middle of winter was miserable indeed. I think it was instructions from the charging station which had led me to believe that I needed to turn off my car in the first place...
The Bolt only goes to 50KW. But it also comes with heated seats as a standard feature specifically so you won’t have to use the cabin heater. That being said, this might not have been one of those...
The Bolt only goes to 50KW. But it also comes with heated seats as a standard feature specifically so you won’t have to use the cabin heater. That being said, this might not have been one of those moments.
Not unless they're Buc-ee's. Maybe they should just build more of those. But it does bring up a good point that once chargers become prolific to the point where you aren't forced to go to a...
Not unless they're Buc-ee's. Maybe they should just build more of those. But it does bring up a good point that once chargers become prolific to the point where you aren't forced to go to a particular one because the next closest one is 50 miles away, the deciding factor for where you charge will absolutely end up being based on the amenities available while you wait. Today, that matters much less. Maybe some people go to Wawa or Sheetz based on making a single stop for gas and okay food, but that will become far more important when you're stuck there for a half hour.
Yes, good point. Those are the stations that would be well-served to house chargers. I've noticed some Sheetz stations adding them as well, and they have indoor and outdoor seating for food.
Yes, good point. Those are the stations that would be well-served to house chargers. I've noticed some Sheetz stations adding them as well, and they have indoor and outdoor seating for food.
I don't agree, largely because I hold the priority of charging availability over luxuries, but I'd also hope that, if chargers were installed at these gas holes, that there'd be some incentive to...
I don't agree, largely because I hold the priority of charging availability over luxuries, but I'd also hope that, if chargers were installed at these gas holes, that there'd be some incentive to make being in or around them nicer. As a North American pedestrian, I's say their sidewalks are almost never cleared of snow but almost always strewn with litter or glass.
For the ones that are next to highways, a lot of them are. They often have at least one restaurant and frequently multiple ones in addition to the regular gas station shop. Or to be more specific,...
Are gas stations in Germany like that? They aren't in the US.
For the ones that are next to highways, a lot of them are. They often have at least one restaurant and frequently multiple ones in addition to the regular gas station shop. Or to be more specific, gas stations are often located on rest area locations with lots of parking, grass with picnic benches, restrooms and the other things I already mentioned.
For gas stations not on highways, it really depends. If they are manned, they have your basic shop with snacks, coffee, etc.
Anyway, I don't think it really matters all that much. What you are stating as a necessity, in my opinion, is more of a "nice to have" QoL improvement.
In reality, it is more important on longer trips to be able to charge reliably in the first place. To add to that, just speaking personally, I don't need to be entertained by the location when I make a stop. It is of course nice if the scenery isn't utterly depressing, but other than that I am perfectly capable of keeping myself busy for the relative short duration of a fast charge stop. For example, by typing out replies on Tildes like this one ;)
Clearly, you've never been to a Buc-ee's and it shows. I kid but I also think EV chargers should be installed all over quasi-shopping malls right off the highway... or drive in movies.
Clearly, you've never been to a Buc-ee's and it shows.
I kid but I also think EV chargers should be installed all over quasi-shopping malls right off the highway... or drive in movies.
They do actually! Granted they're on the other side of all the pumps next to the highway so you have to cross the whole lot and all the cars swerving through the pumps but they're there.
They do actually!
Granted they're on the other side of all the pumps next to the highway so you have to cross the whole lot and all the cars swerving through the pumps but they're there.
Gas stations in the US already make most of their money on convenience stores that you probably won't escape in under 15 minutes (bathroom stop, picking out a drink or something, waiting in line...
Gas stations in the US already make most of their money on convenience stores that you probably won't escape in under 15 minutes (bathroom stop, picking out a drink or something, waiting in line to check out). I don't think they'd think twice about selling metered electricity in addition to gasoline if the demand were there. Many outside of cities are also in areas with very little else.
At least with chargers you can do the convenience store things concurrent to the fill-up instead of having to stand and monitor it.
I've wondered if this is going to spawn some short form entertainment. Obviously fast food/simple restaurants would thrive near these locations, but "go see a movie" is just too long. You can of...
I've wondered if this is going to spawn some short form entertainment. Obviously fast food/simple restaurants would thrive near these locations, but "go see a movie" is just too long. You can of course just charge for wifi access or something like that, but I'm curious to see what pops up if suddenly most citizens have 15-30 minutes they need to kill.
There's charging lots around that have food trucks or waterless car wash services but I'd love for someone to turn it into a social experience. A little building with pool, table tennis, arcade...
There's charging lots around that have food trucks or waterless car wash services but I'd love for someone to turn it into a social experience. A little building with pool, table tennis, arcade cabinets, outdoor gym gear and vending machines. Just a space to sit and interact with new people in a casual setting. Theres the whole 3rd place crisis and it'd be nice to have somewhere to go, even if it's just half an hour. (And without alcohol, you can at least count on people being sober and slightly more sociable.)
But I do think the realistic end would be ubiquitous level 1 (slow chargers) ports in most parking spaces while the highway gas stations and fast chargers service long haulers and emergency fill ups. The infrastructure is not nearly as restrictive as the fast chargers and if we see EVs replace cars, I think slow chargers will be sufficient for most people who's vehicles are parked for a majority of the day.
I'm in the U.S.. In my area we have a local chain that competes in Whole Foods' niche called MOM - My Organic Market. They have EV chargers at most of their locations. I went to a nearby Lidl the...
I'm in the U.S.. In my area we have a local chain that competes in Whole Foods' niche called MOM - My Organic Market.
They have EV chargers at most of their locations.
I went to a nearby Lidl the other day and they had put one EV charger in their massive parking lot.
Most of the ones I've stopped at are and have something like a McDonald's or something. But I don't drive much and haven't travelled through any properly rural areas, so I can't say whether my...
Most of the ones I've stopped at are and have something like a McDonald's or something. But I don't drive much and haven't travelled through any properly rural areas, so I can't say whether my experience is representative.
For long road trips, it would suck. But if you're just headed home and need a little extra charge, it's perfect. A quick trip to the bathroom while you charge can be enough to get you back home...
For long road trips, it would suck. But if you're just headed home and need a little extra charge, it's perfect. A quick trip to the bathroom while you charge can be enough to get you back home where you can slow charge overnight, or if you're on a long road trip it can be enought to get you to a full service rest stop which are spaced about 30 minutes apart on the Autobahn from what I remember
EV chargers should be placed in locations worth spending 10 to 30 minutes. Are gas stations in Germany like that? They aren't in the US.
I'd rather sit for 30 minutes watching grass grow from my car at a random nowhere podunk gas station than being stranded 40 miles from the nearest charger because there wasn't any compelling POI nearby.
All gas stations should have at least 1 fast charger available. Should be mandated into any new builds or renos.
I hope there will also be shelter requirements when building EV chargers.
When I had first bought my Chevy Bolt and did not yet have charging at home I was frequently visiting the nearest public EV chargers, across town in an empty shopping center, and in the middle of the night due to my work. I had also needed to turn off my car to minimize my wait, which meant no heat in the middle of winter and at midnight. I live in upstate NY, so let me assure you that I was cold. I had to leave the shopping center & cross the Erie Canal to find an open bar where I could sit in heat. Adding insult to injury, I was discovering how unreliable most public chargers were, as I would recross the canal two or three times until the car was entirely charged. That was miserable.
I think this is a bit hyperbolic. The heater in an EV takes a few kW, maybe 3-5. The charger is delivering 50-150kW. You're not going to reduce your charge time by much by turning the heater off.
Just as a counterpoint, is it possible to turn on the heater without the entire car being on? I’m not saying there are genuine technical barriers, but if the car had to be fully on with loads of other features engaged and using power in order to run the heating, it might be more than your numbers suggest.
And even considering your numbers, if it was using 5kW and the charger was 50kW, that’s still a 10% increase in charging time. Not hugely significant, but still impactful.
That's very interesting. I wish that I'd understood that at the time, because crossing the Erie Canal in the middle of winter was miserable indeed. I think it was instructions from the charging station which had led me to believe that I needed to turn off my car in the first place...
The Bolt only goes to 50KW. But it also comes with heated seats as a standard feature specifically so you won’t have to use the cabin heater. That being said, this might not have been one of those moments.
Not unless they're Buc-ee's. Maybe they should just build more of those. But it does bring up a good point that once chargers become prolific to the point where you aren't forced to go to a particular one because the next closest one is 50 miles away, the deciding factor for where you charge will absolutely end up being based on the amenities available while you wait. Today, that matters much less. Maybe some people go to Wawa or Sheetz based on making a single stop for gas and okay food, but that will become far more important when you're stuck there for a half hour.
Yes, good point. Those are the stations that would be well-served to house chargers. I've noticed some Sheetz stations adding them as well, and they have indoor and outdoor seating for food.
I don't agree, largely because I hold the priority of charging availability over luxuries, but I'd also hope that, if chargers were installed at these gas holes, that there'd be some incentive to make being in or around them nicer. As a North American pedestrian, I's say their sidewalks are almost never cleared of snow but almost always strewn with litter or glass.
For the ones that are next to highways, a lot of them are. They often have at least one restaurant and frequently multiple ones in addition to the regular gas station shop. Or to be more specific, gas stations are often located on rest area locations with lots of parking, grass with picnic benches, restrooms and the other things I already mentioned.
For gas stations not on highways, it really depends. If they are manned, they have your basic shop with snacks, coffee, etc.
Anyway, I don't think it really matters all that much. What you are stating as a necessity, in my opinion, is more of a "nice to have" QoL improvement.
In reality, it is more important on longer trips to be able to charge reliably in the first place. To add to that, just speaking personally, I don't need to be entertained by the location when I make a stop. It is of course nice if the scenery isn't utterly depressing, but other than that I am perfectly capable of keeping myself busy for the relative short duration of a fast charge stop. For example, by typing out replies on Tildes like this one ;)
Clearly, you've never been to a Buc-ee's and it shows.
I kid but I also think EV chargers should be installed all over quasi-shopping malls right off the highway... or drive in movies.
Love Buc-ee’s, but none of them have EV chargers, do they?
They do actually!
Granted they're on the other side of all the pumps next to the highway so you have to cross the whole lot and all the cars swerving through the pumps but they're there.
I think we need to get over the availability threshold before we can start being picky about what amenities are available in addition to charging.
Gas stations in the US already make most of their money on convenience stores that you probably won't escape in under 15 minutes (bathroom stop, picking out a drink or something, waiting in line to check out). I don't think they'd think twice about selling metered electricity in addition to gasoline if the demand were there. Many outside of cities are also in areas with very little else.
At least with chargers you can do the convenience store things concurrent to the fill-up instead of having to stand and monitor it.
I've wondered if this is going to spawn some short form entertainment. Obviously fast food/simple restaurants would thrive near these locations, but "go see a movie" is just too long. You can of course just charge for wifi access or something like that, but I'm curious to see what pops up if suddenly most citizens have 15-30 minutes they need to kill.
There's charging lots around that have food trucks or waterless car wash services but I'd love for someone to turn it into a social experience. A little building with pool, table tennis, arcade cabinets, outdoor gym gear and vending machines. Just a space to sit and interact with new people in a casual setting. Theres the whole 3rd place crisis and it'd be nice to have somewhere to go, even if it's just half an hour. (And without alcohol, you can at least count on people being sober and slightly more sociable.)
But I do think the realistic end would be ubiquitous level 1 (slow chargers) ports in most parking spaces while the highway gas stations and fast chargers service long haulers and emergency fill ups. The infrastructure is not nearly as restrictive as the fast chargers and if we see EVs replace cars, I think slow chargers will be sufficient for most people who's vehicles are parked for a majority of the day.
I'm in the U.S.. In my area we have a local chain that competes in Whole Foods' niche called MOM - My Organic Market.
They have EV chargers at most of their locations.
I went to a nearby Lidl the other day and they had put one EV charger in their massive parking lot.
Most of the ones I've stopped at are and have something like a McDonald's or something. But I don't drive much and haven't travelled through any properly rural areas, so I can't say whether my experience is representative.
For long road trips, it would suck. But if you're just headed home and need a little extra charge, it's perfect. A quick trip to the bathroom while you charge can be enough to get you back home where you can slow charge overnight, or if you're on a long road trip it can be enought to get you to a full service rest stop which are spaced about 30 minutes apart on the Autobahn from what I remember