I really don’t like this thing. It’s so needlessly extravagant. The thing I like about motorcycles that they are relatively simple. But this is an extremely overcomplicated design that is...
I really don’t like this thing. It’s so needlessly extravagant. The thing I like about motorcycles that they are relatively simple. But this is an extremely overcomplicated design that is needlessly expensive for reasons that I personally don’t find important.
That hubless wheel is probably the epitome of my distaste. It’s much more complicated than a comparable hubbed wheel and motor, which not only makes it much much more expensive, but also more prone to failure. It also sounds like it might even be less efficient as well. There are wheels with integrated motors in the hubs which offer high performance while being well proven for reliability, which makes them a much better option. The only issue here appears to be entirely aesthetic in nature.
The price is just insane. That’s not just car money, that’s reasonably nice car money. I don’t doubt that there are people who will buy this, but it’s an obscene thing. It’s like the solid gold Apple Watch that sold for $14K when the standard one was less than the tax you would pay for the standard model which was besides the chassis exactly the same. It’s something you buy to flaunt your wealth that you can try to justify by pointing to its utility, but the math will never add up.
It honestly feels like the TS Ultra has been made specifically to make the TS and TS Pro seem reasonable. The safety system it comes with is just insane and it even the author of the article seems to think it might be detrimental to safety. But even the base model TS is very expensive. I’m not familiar with electric motorcycle pricing, but the Zero SR/S actually slightly overshoots the TS in terms of both horsepower and range while the MSRP is more than $6K less.
It's innovative, so someone will buy it. They don't really talk too much about handling, other than battery placement. I would want to know more about the suspension and braking systems. I don't...
It's innovative, so someone will buy it. They don't really talk too much about handling, other than battery placement. I would want to know more about the suspension and braking systems.
I don't really need all those sensors to have an enjoyable ride. In fact, we turned off any and all beeping in our SUV because the alerts were super distracting. I don't even want the stupid screen that we don't use.
And yes, $45K for a motorcycle is insane (unless its a race bike). But I'm a simple human. Just give me old, reliable technology. However, this is how the industry moves forward. I'll be watching to see if anything comes of this.
It could be a move forward if it actually makes riding it more safe. I guess you could say it is the industry moving forward in any case, if you mean including electronics that nearly double the...
It could be a move forward if it actually makes riding it more safe. I guess you could say it is the industry moving forward in any case, if you mean including electronics that nearly double the MSRP, but that’s not really the way I would like it to go.
The hubless wheel really isn’t an innovation in my eye. Innovations are typically things that simplify things. Nikola Tesla’s brushless motors is a pretty good example. But with this all I can think about is how you will deal with a flat tire. There may be good engineering behind it, but it seems like a decision made entirely for aesthetics.
It’s not really innovative, it’s just different. The issue with being different for being different is that motorcycles look similar to each other for a good reason. Having that much unsprung...
It’s not really innovative, it’s just different.
The issue with being different for being different is that motorcycles look similar to each other for a good reason.
Having that much unsprung weight is almost universally a bad thing. It’s almost vehicle design 101 that you want to get as much weight as possible supported by the suspension, which is why racing wheels are as light as humanly possible. This design does the opposite. They also make a lot of noise about having as low a center of gravity as possible. That’s not a good thing in motorcycles. Motorcycles are not cars. They don’t rely on their wheels staying perpendicular with the ground to prevent the vehicle from flipping over. Having a higher center of gravity allows that center of gravity to dynamically shift as the rider leans through turns, which is why sport bikes are so high off the ground. If you pull up in a sport bike next to a person in a sports car, you’ll see that your body is about 3 feet higher than his. There’s a reason for that.
Thirdly, I can’t think of a single decent reason to justify a hub less motor other than “looks different”
The sensors are a weird choice. They obviously didn't look at what causes motorcycle accidents and say, "How can we make this safer?" The antilock brake mention is a good point, a lot of accidents...
The sensors are a weird choice. They obviously didn't look at what causes motorcycle accidents and say, "How can we make this safer?"
The antilock brake mention is a good point, a lot of accidents locally are caused by slippery roads.
I own an electric motorcycle and wouldn't go back to ICE, but my big complaint I have is going to be with handling and comfort. A big, heavy motor that's basically part of the wheel is weight...
I own an electric motorcycle and wouldn't go back to ICE, but my big complaint I have is going to be with handling and comfort. A big, heavy motor that's basically part of the wheel is weight that's not supported by suspension. High unsprung weight has a big impact on how a vehicle feels and how well it handles, particularly under heavy acceleration or cornering. Anything that reduces stability of a motorcycle is a very bad thing in my book. I'm curious to see this bike put through proper paces by someone who knows how to ride and can share their honest opinions.
As an engineering company, though, it helps to maintain the discipline of being on the cutting edge and making envelope pushing stuff just because you can. That competence trickles down to...
It honestly feels like the TS Ultra has been made specifically to make the TS and TS Pro seem reasonable.
As an engineering company, though, it helps to maintain the discipline of being on the cutting edge and making envelope pushing stuff just because you can. That competence trickles down to advancements later on on the more mass market models. This is the premise with supercars. Like Volkswagen owns Bentley, which is mostly silly extravagances. But eventually those trickle down to their Audis, and afterwards those trickle down to their VWs, and after that they come down to Skodas.
But you don't get there unless you start with silly, overpriced frippery.
Granted, I'm not even sure it's good for cars to have modern EV levels of torque and horsepower on street legal vehicles. On motorcycles it's even more frightening.
I suppose that would make sense if you're a major manufacturer, but this appears to be their only vehicle of any type thus far. Personally speaking, for a company that is an unknown quantity I'd...
I suppose that would make sense if you're a major manufacturer, but this appears to be their only vehicle of any type thus far. Personally speaking, for a company that is an unknown quantity I'd think proving they could make a simple motorcycle would be more important than making a high-end concept vehicle. Tesla might have shocked the world with their high end Roadster when they first started out, but that car was built on bones they bought from Lotus.
You know, I've often thought the best sensor for a bike at high speeds would be auto adjusting wing mirrors. I move my head about a lot while riding, so having mirrors that move to ensure I can...
You know, I've often thought the best sensor for a bike at high speeds would be auto adjusting wing mirrors. I move my head about a lot while riding, so having mirrors that move to ensure I can always see the road behind and beside me would be a lifesaver - hopefully not literally.
Alternative hot take; that's a a cool looking 21st century motorcycle that would make me feel like a future person. I agree with the other threads that an appeal of motorcycles is the stripped...
Alternative hot take; that's a a cool looking 21st century motorcycle that would make me feel like a future person.
I agree with the other threads that an appeal of motorcycles is the stripped down the experience, but I'm still waiting for my cyberpunk ride.
I feel that there are several other motorcycles on the market that look better from that perspective. Its almost like these guys added a hubless wheel because the rest of the bike is bland. I'll...
I feel that there are several other motorcycles on the market that look better from that perspective. Its almost like these guys added a hubless wheel because the rest of the bike is bland. I'll edit with links to bikes that look modern and cooler over the next little bit here...
I'd argue the Ultra looks more "futuristic" than any of those because it's hubless. It's very much just an aesthetic/style thing, but I get what WobblesdaWombat is going for. Obviously this thread...
I'd argue the Ultra looks more "futuristic" than any of those because it's hubless. It's very much just an aesthetic/style thing, but I get what WobblesdaWombat is going for.
Obviously this thread has already shown how insanely impractical hubless is, but it'd be cool if it wasn't, and I don't think that anyone is going to look at the Ultra and any bike on your list and think it's the same "style".
Other than the hubless wheel it looks normal, nothing setting it apart from any other naked or semi naked bike from the last decade. I guess the headlight is a bit fancy... but even that looks meh...
Other than the hubless wheel it looks normal, nothing setting it apart from any other naked or semi naked bike from the last decade. I guess the headlight is a bit fancy... but even that looks meh to me. I wouldn't call the ultra bad looking but its not good enough looking that I would overlook the downsides of that hubless wheel.
I don't think that anyone is going to look at the Ultra and any bike on your list and think it's the same "style".
I didn't mean to suggest that exactly. My list is what I felt were a bunch of modern looking bikes that I feel look more modern than the ultra.
Part of my viewpoint is that to me the hubless wheel by itself doesn't do it for me. If they wanted to do something radical and dumb purely for the sake of style then I don't think they took it far enough.
Obviously I have some pretty serious biases though and style is pretty subjective.
There's a very good reason why more motorcycles don't have hubless wheels: they're heavy and that weight isn't carried by suspension. High unsprung weight can destabilize the bike, especially in...
There's a very good reason why more motorcycles don't have hubless wheels: they're heavy and that weight isn't carried by suspension. High unsprung weight can destabilize the bike, especially in cornering or during braking or acceleration.
For people more versed in the motorcycle world, are there any all around decent electric motorcycles available right now? I’ve seen a lot of discussion around their shortcomings: usually they’re...
For people more versed in the motorcycle world, are there any all around decent electric motorcycles available right now? I’ve seen a lot of discussion around their shortcomings: usually they’re either prohibitively expensive, have terrible range, or some other downside that makes them unappealing.
I’ve been dabbling with the idea of getting a motorcycle for a long time and electric is more appealing to me, but I’m not sure if the current offerings make that a good idea.
Huuuge generalization here, but yeah they are basically all trash unless you spend 50k+ USD. Even then they seem too gimmicky despite being as close to a real motorcycle as anyone has gotten. It's...
Huuuge generalization here, but yeah they are basically all trash unless you spend 50k+ USD. Even then they seem too gimmicky despite being as close to a real motorcycle as anyone has gotten. It's like the designers realize that the decent technology is too expensive for a normal human to afford, so why not add on a bunch of even more expensive extras for the people with more money than sense since they're the only ones who will be buying these new e-motorcycles anyway?
I'm guessing $50k is hyperbole because I can't even think of a production electric motorcycle that costs that much without getting into bizarre niche machines. A Zero SR/S is the top of that...
I'm guessing $50k is hyperbole because I can't even think of a production electric motorcycle that costs that much without getting into bizarre niche machines. A Zero SR/S is the top of that manufacturer's line and it has an MSRP of around $21k. A Livewire One starts at around $23k. An Energica Ego+ will run you around $25k. Even the not-yet-released Damon Hypersport claiming a 200mph top speed, 200 mile range, and 200 horsepower is $28k.
These are just the top of the line machines from each manufacturer. Prices come down into the $10-15k range if you don't need bleeding edge acceleration or range.
Yes, although the one that came to mind was the Harley-Davidson electric motorcycle that came out a while back. My main point was that "good" electric motorcycles tend to be insanely expensive...
Yes, although the one that came to mind was the Harley-Davidson electric motorcycle that came out a while back.
My main point was that "good" electric motorcycles tend to be insanely expensive compared to what what you would get in a normal motorcycle for a much lower price.
As for the cheaper ones, they never look that great for the price. Bad range, skinny tires, cheap components, etc. They are usually not much more than glorified e-scooters like you find all over China.
Just FYI, the Harley Davidson electric is still being produced under the Livewire brand, it just doesn't have the Harley branding anymore. Strangely, you can still get redirected to Livewire's...
Just FYI, the Harley Davidson electric is still being produced under the Livewire brand, it just doesn't have the Harley branding anymore. Strangely, you can still get redirected to Livewire's site from Harley's.
It's definitely true that electric motorcycles are generally more expensive than ICE bikes, but that gap is closing fairly quickly. A few years ago, the Zero SR/S had an MSRP north of 25k. MSRP's regularly get dropped as manufacturing improves and manufacturers strive to reach more riders.
I think the "looks" gap is closing too. Livewire's S2 Del Mar looks pretty sharp for a $15.5k electric. The Zero S is a downtuned SR/F, which also has a nice naked bike look for $15k. Both of these can still push to 100+ mph.
Those shortcomings pretty much sum up electric motorcycles at the moment. There are a lot of technical challenges with electric bikes that haven't quite been adequately solved yet (battery...
Those shortcomings pretty much sum up electric motorcycles at the moment. There are a lot of technical challenges with electric bikes that haven't quite been adequately solved yet (battery size/capacity being pretty high on the list).
There are some okay options if you just need to go a few miles to commute in a city or something and are willing to spend for it, but for a lot of people riding is more about taking longer distance trips than that.
There's also the problem that a lot of electric motorcycle companies (that I've seen) seem much more focused on "futuristic" styling and being different than on making a fundamentally good motorcycle which happens to be electric. Until that changes, adoption will probably continue to be slow.
I mean, my Tern GSD electric bicycle with the optional second battery has a 60 mile range, and it's only 70 lbs. Each additional battery is another 10-ish pounds, and the average motorcycle is...
I mean, my Tern GSD electric bicycle with the optional second battery has a 60 mile range, and it's only 70 lbs. Each additional battery is another 10-ish pounds, and the average motorcycle is 700, so it seems like there should be a good bit of tolerance for more battery weight?
Though I definitely say this as a bicyclist and not a motorcyclist, so there could be something huge I'm missing.
Weight is an issue, but also size. Can only pack on so many saddlebags before handling goes to crap. And since they're going much faster they chew through kWhs much faster than an e-bike. It's...
Weight is an issue, but also size. Can only pack on so many saddlebags before handling goes to crap. And since they're going much faster they chew through kWhs much faster than an e-bike. It's similar to the tyranny of the rocket equation. (to move more weight you need more fuel, which adds more weight)
I think /u/turmacar explained it well. The problem is less weight (although 700lbs is a fairly heavy bike for anything but a cruiser), and more the packaging/density of the batteries. For electric...
I think /u/turmacar explained it well. The problem is less weight (although 700lbs is a fairly heavy bike for anything but a cruiser), and more the packaging/density of the batteries. For electric bikes to be viable, they'll need to be able to fit 200ish miles of range into the normal form factor of a motorcycle, and keep the weight more in the vicinity of 400-500lb.
That's also assuming some prerequisites like charging infrastructure becoming more accessible.
Motorcycles have other requirements that bicycles don't have, like being comfortable and safe at highway speeds for extended durations. They need bigger brakes, more powerful motors, more robust suspensions and frames, and many have significant bodywork and/or need the ability to carry a passenger. All of that adds weight, which compounds the range issues.
That's a good point. I hadn't thought so much about what an extra 50MPH would require in terms of structure. Thinking about it, I certainly wouldn't feel at all safe on a bicycle at 70+mph.
That's a good point. I hadn't thought so much about what an extra 50MPH would require in terms of structure. Thinking about it, I certainly wouldn't feel at all safe on a bicycle at 70+mph.
I'm not much of a motorcycle person or a gearhead but the headline caught my eye. I was curious why it's a great name since it looks generic to me. I figured maybe it was a reference I was missing...
I'm not much of a motorcycle person or a gearhead but the headline caught my eye. I was curious why it's a great name since it looks generic to me. I figured maybe it was a reference I was missing or there's some cool context behind it.
I can't find any explanation of why it's notable name at all. I can't even find where the name is even discussed at all. In fact the word "name" only appears once:
This creates a radical look, and while it does have some drawbacks — namely, adding a lot of weight hanging off the rear suspension — Lehtimäki said the practical benefits of that battery placement more than outweigh it.
So I guess I'm just left confused about what happened here. A cut bit of content? Some editor going rogue?
Really hard for me to determine where my valid criticisms based on experience start and where my crotchety old man "we used to push our bikes uphill both ways" whinging starts but honestly, this...
Really hard for me to determine where my valid criticisms based on experience start and where my crotchety old man "we used to push our bikes uphill both ways" whinging starts but honestly, this seems pointless.
Making the wheels so heavy will definitely impact handling and all the whizz-bang gadgetry looks tacked on because "wouldn't it be cool" not because actual riders had actual needs and problems to be solved.
Unreal-engine driven display on the tank? Useless. That's a cool gadget whose purpose is being a cool gadget, not an improvement on a motorcycle. The only amazing high-fidelity picture you should be focusing on is the real world.
Ultramegananosensors that monitor everything? Unnecessary, I don't need a bike that lets me know every microminute detail of what traffic is doing around me, that is not making me safer, just causing distractions. To keep me safe it would have to act independently of me otherwise what's the point of detecting something that's too fast for my senses to catch and still looping in my slowpoke brain and nervous system for the solution? And bikes are not cars, you cannot tell a bike "slam on those brakes as hard as you can in case of impending collision" or "swerve hard around the obstacle" because the rider is on top, not strapped in, and part of the bike-rider system. No point saving the bike if you've yeeted the rider across 2 lanes onto an incoming semi.
Now, I am not one of those people saying "just learn to out-brake ABS and out-fine-control TCS" or whatever. Major manufacturers have been going ham with motorcycle electronics and exactly because they're major motorcycle manufacturers that are trying to sell motorcycles as an established brand, those electronics actually do useful things. ABS is a godsend and is now lean-sensitive, TCS is super-useful, radar-guided cruise-control is already in production models, non-budget bikes almost all have some phone-pairing capability. Things people want and need.
Verge are suffering from being unknowns trying to make a name for themselves and thus looking for some type of "hook" because god knows you won't build a fundamentally better motorcycle than Honda or Ducati for a reasonable price.
As a rider I like how the article opens talking about safety. But the only photo of the bike being ridden is by someone with low top shoes and no jacket.
As a rider I like how the article opens talking about safety. But the only photo of the bike being ridden is by someone with low top shoes and no jacket.
I really don’t like this thing. It’s so needlessly extravagant. The thing I like about motorcycles that they are relatively simple. But this is an extremely overcomplicated design that is needlessly expensive for reasons that I personally don’t find important.
That hubless wheel is probably the epitome of my distaste. It’s much more complicated than a comparable hubbed wheel and motor, which not only makes it much much more expensive, but also more prone to failure. It also sounds like it might even be less efficient as well. There are wheels with integrated motors in the hubs which offer high performance while being well proven for reliability, which makes them a much better option. The only issue here appears to be entirely aesthetic in nature.
The price is just insane. That’s not just car money, that’s reasonably nice car money. I don’t doubt that there are people who will buy this, but it’s an obscene thing. It’s like the solid gold Apple Watch that sold for $14K when the standard one was less than the tax you would pay for the standard model which was besides the chassis exactly the same. It’s something you buy to flaunt your wealth that you can try to justify by pointing to its utility, but the math will never add up.
It honestly feels like the TS Ultra has been made specifically to make the TS and TS Pro seem reasonable. The safety system it comes with is just insane and it even the author of the article seems to think it might be detrimental to safety. But even the base model TS is very expensive. I’m not familiar with electric motorcycle pricing, but the Zero SR/S actually slightly overshoots the TS in terms of both horsepower and range while the MSRP is more than $6K less.
It's innovative, so someone will buy it. They don't really talk too much about handling, other than battery placement. I would want to know more about the suspension and braking systems.
I don't really need all those sensors to have an enjoyable ride. In fact, we turned off any and all beeping in our SUV because the alerts were super distracting. I don't even want the stupid screen that we don't use.
And yes, $45K for a motorcycle is insane (unless its a race bike). But I'm a simple human. Just give me old, reliable technology. However, this is how the industry moves forward. I'll be watching to see if anything comes of this.
It could be a move forward if it actually makes riding it more safe. I guess you could say it is the industry moving forward in any case, if you mean including electronics that nearly double the MSRP, but that’s not really the way I would like it to go.
The hubless wheel really isn’t an innovation in my eye. Innovations are typically things that simplify things. Nikola Tesla’s brushless motors is a pretty good example. But with this all I can think about is how you will deal with a flat tire. There may be good engineering behind it, but it seems like a decision made entirely for aesthetics.
It’s not really innovative, it’s just different.
The issue with being different for being different is that motorcycles look similar to each other for a good reason.
Having that much unsprung weight is almost universally a bad thing. It’s almost vehicle design 101 that you want to get as much weight as possible supported by the suspension, which is why racing wheels are as light as humanly possible. This design does the opposite. They also make a lot of noise about having as low a center of gravity as possible. That’s not a good thing in motorcycles. Motorcycles are not cars. They don’t rely on their wheels staying perpendicular with the ground to prevent the vehicle from flipping over. Having a higher center of gravity allows that center of gravity to dynamically shift as the rider leans through turns, which is why sport bikes are so high off the ground. If you pull up in a sport bike next to a person in a sports car, you’ll see that your body is about 3 feet higher than his. There’s a reason for that.
Thirdly, I can’t think of a single decent reason to justify a hub less motor other than “looks different”
The sensors are a weird choice. They obviously didn't look at what causes motorcycle accidents and say, "How can we make this safer?"
The antilock brake mention is a good point, a lot of accidents locally are caused by slippery roads.
I own an electric motorcycle and wouldn't go back to ICE, but my big complaint I have is going to be with handling and comfort. A big, heavy motor that's basically part of the wheel is weight that's not supported by suspension. High unsprung weight has a big impact on how a vehicle feels and how well it handles, particularly under heavy acceleration or cornering. Anything that reduces stability of a motorcycle is a very bad thing in my book. I'm curious to see this bike put through proper paces by someone who knows how to ride and can share their honest opinions.
As an engineering company, though, it helps to maintain the discipline of being on the cutting edge and making envelope pushing stuff just because you can. That competence trickles down to advancements later on on the more mass market models. This is the premise with supercars. Like Volkswagen owns Bentley, which is mostly silly extravagances. But eventually those trickle down to their Audis, and afterwards those trickle down to their VWs, and after that they come down to Skodas.
But you don't get there unless you start with silly, overpriced frippery.
Granted, I'm not even sure it's good for cars to have modern EV levels of torque and horsepower on street legal vehicles. On motorcycles it's even more frightening.
I suppose that would make sense if you're a major manufacturer, but this appears to be their only vehicle of any type thus far. Personally speaking, for a company that is an unknown quantity I'd think proving they could make a simple motorcycle would be more important than making a high-end concept vehicle. Tesla might have shocked the world with their high end Roadster when they first started out, but that car was built on bones they bought from Lotus.
You know, I've often thought the best sensor for a bike at high speeds would be auto adjusting wing mirrors. I move my head about a lot while riding, so having mirrors that move to ensure I can always see the road behind and beside me would be a lifesaver - hopefully not literally.
Alternative hot take; that's a a cool looking 21st century motorcycle that would make me feel like a future person.
I agree with the other threads that an appeal of motorcycles is the stripped down the experience, but I'm still waiting for my cyberpunk ride.
I feel that there are several other motorcycles on the market that look better from that perspective. Its almost like these guys added a hubless wheel because the rest of the bike is bland. I'll edit with links to bikes that look modern and cooler over the next little bit here...
Kawasaki H2
BMW CE 04
BMW M 1000 RR
Ducati Diavele
BMW K1300R axed in 2015
The new version of the KTM Super Duke. My 8 year old's comment on this: "just look at all the technology on that!"
Also, here is a hubless motorbike concept from 1989
I'd argue the Ultra looks more "futuristic" than any of those because it's hubless. It's very much just an aesthetic/style thing, but I get what WobblesdaWombat is going for.
Obviously this thread has already shown how insanely impractical hubless is, but it'd be cool if it wasn't, and I don't think that anyone is going to look at the Ultra and any bike on your list and think it's the same "style".
Other than the hubless wheel it looks normal, nothing setting it apart from any other naked or semi naked bike from the last decade. I guess the headlight is a bit fancy... but even that looks meh to me. I wouldn't call the ultra bad looking but its not good enough looking that I would overlook the downsides of that hubless wheel.
I didn't mean to suggest that exactly. My list is what I felt were a bunch of modern looking bikes that I feel look more modern than the ultra.
Part of my viewpoint is that to me the hubless wheel by itself doesn't do it for me. If they wanted to do something radical and dumb purely for the sake of style then I don't think they took it far enough.
Obviously I have some pretty serious biases though and style is pretty subjective.
Not gonna lie, the H2 and Super Duke look rad as hell.
Now slap a hubless arm on those baddies and we're good to go ; )
There's a very good reason why more motorcycles don't have hubless wheels: they're heavy and that weight isn't carried by suspension. High unsprung weight can destabilize the bike, especially in cornering or during braking or acceleration.
I know they have to have breaking work somehow, but yeah it would be cool to have the front wheel doing the same thing!
For people more versed in the motorcycle world, are there any all around decent electric motorcycles available right now? I’ve seen a lot of discussion around their shortcomings: usually they’re either prohibitively expensive, have terrible range, or some other downside that makes them unappealing.
I’ve been dabbling with the idea of getting a motorcycle for a long time and electric is more appealing to me, but I’m not sure if the current offerings make that a good idea.
Huuuge generalization here, but yeah they are basically all trash unless you spend 50k+ USD. Even then they seem too gimmicky despite being as close to a real motorcycle as anyone has gotten. It's like the designers realize that the decent technology is too expensive for a normal human to afford, so why not add on a bunch of even more expensive extras for the people with more money than sense since they're the only ones who will be buying these new e-motorcycles anyway?
I'm guessing $50k is hyperbole because I can't even think of a production electric motorcycle that costs that much without getting into bizarre niche machines. A Zero SR/S is the top of that manufacturer's line and it has an MSRP of around $21k. A Livewire One starts at around $23k. An Energica Ego+ will run you around $25k. Even the not-yet-released Damon Hypersport claiming a 200mph top speed, 200 mile range, and 200 horsepower is $28k.
These are just the top of the line machines from each manufacturer. Prices come down into the $10-15k range if you don't need bleeding edge acceleration or range.
Yes, although the one that came to mind was the Harley-Davidson electric motorcycle that came out a while back.
My main point was that "good" electric motorcycles tend to be insanely expensive compared to what what you would get in a normal motorcycle for a much lower price.
As for the cheaper ones, they never look that great for the price. Bad range, skinny tires, cheap components, etc. They are usually not much more than glorified e-scooters like you find all over China.
So, yes, it was hyperbole. :D
Just FYI, the Harley Davidson electric is still being produced under the Livewire brand, it just doesn't have the Harley branding anymore. Strangely, you can still get redirected to Livewire's site from Harley's.
It's definitely true that electric motorcycles are generally more expensive than ICE bikes, but that gap is closing fairly quickly. A few years ago, the Zero SR/S had an MSRP north of 25k. MSRP's regularly get dropped as manufacturing improves and manufacturers strive to reach more riders.
I think the "looks" gap is closing too. Livewire's S2 Del Mar looks pretty sharp for a $15.5k electric. The Zero S is a downtuned SR/F, which also has a nice naked bike look for $15k. Both of these can still push to 100+ mph.
Those shortcomings pretty much sum up electric motorcycles at the moment. There are a lot of technical challenges with electric bikes that haven't quite been adequately solved yet (battery size/capacity being pretty high on the list).
There are some okay options if you just need to go a few miles to commute in a city or something and are willing to spend for it, but for a lot of people riding is more about taking longer distance trips than that.
There's also the problem that a lot of electric motorcycle companies (that I've seen) seem much more focused on "futuristic" styling and being different than on making a fundamentally good motorcycle which happens to be electric. Until that changes, adoption will probably continue to be slow.
I mean, my Tern GSD electric bicycle with the optional second battery has a 60 mile range, and it's only 70 lbs. Each additional battery is another 10-ish pounds, and the average motorcycle is 700, so it seems like there should be a good bit of tolerance for more battery weight?
Though I definitely say this as a bicyclist and not a motorcyclist, so there could be something huge I'm missing.
Weight is an issue, but also size. Can only pack on so many saddlebags before handling goes to crap. And since they're going much faster they chew through kWhs much faster than an e-bike. It's similar to the tyranny of the rocket equation. (to move more weight you need more fuel, which adds more weight)
Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation!
I think /u/turmacar explained it well. The problem is less weight (although 700lbs is a fairly heavy bike for anything but a cruiser), and more the packaging/density of the batteries. For electric bikes to be viable, they'll need to be able to fit 200ish miles of range into the normal form factor of a motorcycle, and keep the weight more in the vicinity of 400-500lb.
That's also assuming some prerequisites like charging infrastructure becoming more accessible.
Motorcycles have other requirements that bicycles don't have, like being comfortable and safe at highway speeds for extended durations. They need bigger brakes, more powerful motors, more robust suspensions and frames, and many have significant bodywork and/or need the ability to carry a passenger. All of that adds weight, which compounds the range issues.
That's a good point. I hadn't thought so much about what an extra 50MPH would require in terms of structure. Thinking about it, I certainly wouldn't feel at all safe on a bicycle at 70+mph.
I'm not much of a motorcycle person or a gearhead but the headline caught my eye. I was curious why it's a great name since it looks generic to me. I figured maybe it was a reference I was missing or there's some cool context behind it.
I can't find any explanation of why it's notable name at all. I can't even find where the name is even discussed at all. In fact the word "name" only appears once:
So I guess I'm just left confused about what happened here. A cut bit of content? Some editor going rogue?
The bike is called the Verge TS ultra, and the article is on The Verge. It's just a little joke the author made.
Ahh, somehow that connection escaped me.
Really hard for me to determine where my valid criticisms based on experience start and where my crotchety old man "we used to push our bikes uphill both ways" whinging starts but honestly, this seems pointless.
Making the wheels so heavy will definitely impact handling and all the whizz-bang gadgetry looks tacked on because "wouldn't it be cool" not because actual riders had actual needs and problems to be solved.
Unreal-engine driven display on the tank? Useless. That's a cool gadget whose purpose is being a cool gadget, not an improvement on a motorcycle. The only amazing high-fidelity picture you should be focusing on is the real world.
Ultramegananosensors that monitor everything? Unnecessary, I don't need a bike that lets me know every microminute detail of what traffic is doing around me, that is not making me safer, just causing distractions. To keep me safe it would have to act independently of me otherwise what's the point of detecting something that's too fast for my senses to catch and still looping in my slowpoke brain and nervous system for the solution? And bikes are not cars, you cannot tell a bike "slam on those brakes as hard as you can in case of impending collision" or "swerve hard around the obstacle" because the rider is on top, not strapped in, and part of the bike-rider system. No point saving the bike if you've yeeted the rider across 2 lanes onto an incoming semi.
Now, I am not one of those people saying "just learn to out-brake ABS and out-fine-control TCS" or whatever. Major manufacturers have been going ham with motorcycle electronics and exactly because they're major motorcycle manufacturers that are trying to sell motorcycles as an established brand, those electronics actually do useful things. ABS is a godsend and is now lean-sensitive, TCS is super-useful, radar-guided cruise-control is already in production models, non-budget bikes almost all have some phone-pairing capability. Things people want and need.
Verge are suffering from being unknowns trying to make a name for themselves and thus looking for some type of "hook" because god knows you won't build a fundamentally better motorcycle than Honda or Ducati for a reasonable price.
As a rider I like how the article opens talking about safety. But the only photo of the bike being ridden is by someone with low top shoes and no jacket.