Advertising is, and has always been strictly necessary. Getting people to learn about your product to choose to spend their resources on it has been the name of the game since before the invention...
Exemplary
Advertising is, and has always been strictly necessary. Getting people to learn about your product to choose to spend their resources on it has been the name of the game since before the invention of money. Knowing what's on the market is also a prerequisite for me getting the most out of my money. I want relevant advertising to me. When I buy a new laptop, or car, or choose where I go grocery shopping, I want to know I'm making the best decision for me.
Anti-ad (and usually privacy-concerned) people using crazy and extreme language, like calling advertising cancer on society, gets in the way of transmitting their message. People tune out those who espouse extremist, seemingly senseless views rather than engaging them. Normal people's reactions to the author here saying "ads are cancer!" aren't typically
requests for a more detailed explanation
They're just people moving on with their lives and real issues.
Pretty much all the issues outline regarding ads are issues of a poorly regulated US advertising market. Consumer rights in the US have always been weak due to the extreme strength of free speech regulations trumping the competing right of punishing people who lie and mislead.
US companies get to make claims and use strategies illegal in the EU. In several countries in Europe:
you have rights reserving yourself from receiving mail not addressed to you.
You have the right to reserve yourself from robocalls.
Privacy laws are being gradually strengthened to catch up with the online world we've been living in for at least 20 years.
The rules for advertising related to children are much stricter
There are laws against medical advertising to non-medicinal audiences
There are rules, regulations or laws against public goods and services including advertising
There are laws making it obvious who's advertising and that an advertisement or advertorial is paid for by a commercial interest
Further, many of the other issues listed regarding advertising aren't issues of advertising at all, but issues of platforms (who've chosen free ad-financed business models) not moderating the content on their site properly and therefore not removing the junk so we see that as humans.
I'd make a comparison to email prior to effective spam filters. Except that we all know automatic filtering will never be an adequate response to moderating a platform. You need to hire people. How you pay for that density of employees in relation to your users is up to the business. That required standards platforms have to adhere to are an issue for lawmakers: require spam and junk content not to reach domain hosts, search engines, social media platforms etc.
Almost all the "symptoms" of the advertising "cancer" are issues with US law that can be rectified.
The argument made here is that advertising as a concept is bad. The argument made is way, way too broad. Ads are a slight inconvenience. Some other forms of advertising should obviously be illegal in the US like they are elsewhere. Many other countries will surely ban even more of the types of advertising we see today.
Specific ad technologies are bad. As more and more content competes for our attention, it's self-evident that the competition ads and everything else faces from other sources of content is increasingly tough.
It's easy to say "advertising bad." We all know that's not fundamentally true though.
Since we both live in EU jurisdiction, we both know that ads don't lie, or our strong consumer watch dogs will help us punish those companies if we don't want to sue ourselves. I completely agree...
Since we both live in EU jurisdiction, we both know that ads don't lie, or our strong consumer watch dogs will help us punish those companies if we don't want to sue ourselves.
I completely agree that we can't trust the messaging, the feeling in an ad, the unbelievable context around the product and so on. We all know buying gum doesn't get you that supermodel. But when a company says "you can get this laptop with these specs for this price" that's real. Same thing goes for knowing about that new flavor of ice cream, remembering that local plumber exists, telling me that there's a concert and so on.
The whole idea of society is innovation being met by us as a society enacting new regulations where we determine how that new innovation should fit into our legal systems.
If we give up the belief in a functioning democracy, but blame what we fail to regulate instead, we've given up control of society and turned that over to whoever takes that power for themselves.
I think we're really seeing how far behind regulation is on advertising right now with all of the sponsored content being put out by "influencers" on Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, etc. For the USA,...
I think we're really seeing how far behind regulation is on advertising right now with all of the sponsored content being put out by "influencers" on Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, etc. For the USA, the FTC put out a big list of guidelines, but a lot of the recommendations in there are pretty vague or hard to follow, and there doesn't seem to be much significant enforcement of it at all.
I'm a bit tired of arguments that go "no, this thing isn't the problem, lots of individual issues with this thing are the problem!". Maybe if advertising causes these problems when running...
I'm a bit tired of arguments that go "no, this thing isn't the problem, lots of individual issues with this thing are the problem!". Maybe if advertising causes these problems when running unchecked, advertising is the problem. It's obvious from context and common sense that the article doesn't call for some dystopian "end to all advertising" but better regulation – and maybe a push for alternative monetization methods for internet services.
What I'm saying is "No, ads aren't cancer, ads need to be regulated better." To me the author seems to be saying "Ads are a literal cancer on society. I wish we could remove them entirely, but the...
What I'm saying is "No, ads aren't cancer, ads need to be regulated better."
To me the author seems to be saying "Ads are a literal cancer on society. I wish we could remove them entirely, but the cancer has come so far that'd kill the person. We need to kill the cancer piece by piece instead for now."
Except the author is Polish and lives in Krakow. Advertising is a worldwide problem. I think the problem here is that you are considering perhaps a broader view of advertising than the author is....
Pretty much all the issues outline regarding ads are issues of a poorly regulated US advertising market.
Except the author is Polish and lives in Krakow. Advertising is a worldwide problem.
I think the problem here is that you are considering perhaps a broader view of advertising than the author is. You are using the broadest version of Advertising; things like being put in a directory of services or having a sign over the door of the shop. While the author doesn't mention these specifically, I don't think he's including this type of advertising and instead seems to be focused specifically on persuasive forms of advertising.
I think of it much simpler than this. If I see an ad, and I'm not intentionally shopping, I want to sue someone for it. When I am shopping, I am perfectly happy to see advertisements, and only...
I think of it much simpler than this.
If I see an ad, and I'm not intentionally shopping, I want to sue someone for it.
When I am shopping, I am perfectly happy to see advertisements, and only then.
The rest of your regs up there wouldn't make me happy. They'd make things better, sure, but I'd still be bitching about it, and running my array of ad-blocking software to keep that garbage out of my brain.
I note you didn't include a requirement to be true and factual during the advertisement in there. That would have taken care of one of my pet peeves - the fact that most ads are lies, exaggerations, and rife with inaccuracy and exploitative behaviors. Is that included in your point about EU laws? If so, wonderful, I'll take it. If not, I think the EU is still coming up short. I want a false ad to put a company out of business within the month, or at least fine them so hard they never even think about doing it again, and neither does anyone else.
The author is explicitly talking about the same thing I am, as far as I can tell:
The author is explicitly talking about the same thing I am, as far as I can tell:
(When I say "advertising", I use this term somewhat loosely; this text applies not just to the advertising material presented to customers, but to the broader process surrounding its creation as well, which is more correctly referred to via a bunch of buzzwords grouped under the term "marketing".)
Hmm, I overlooked that paragraph. In which case, I strongly disagree with both you and the tfa. I like having nice and useful things, and some degree of marketing must occur for me to be able to...
Hmm, I overlooked that paragraph.
In which case, I strongly disagree with both you and the tfa. I like having nice and useful things, and some degree of marketing must occur for me to be able to know about them. Even if it’s something as simple as “my store sells hammers.”
Hear hear. I've been thinking this for a long time now and I'm glad to see someone take the time to highlight the various disparate issues. My personal pet hate is the spytech introduced into...
Hear hear.
I've been thinking this for a long time now and I'm glad to see someone take the time to highlight the various disparate issues.
My personal pet hate is the spytech introduced into podcasts through aggregator services and apps. Not to mention the crass embedded ads (in the middle and spread throughout) podcasts where the podcast host is forced to talk about their sponsors.
The worst part is that podcasting is now a viable career option encouraging ever more talentless wannabees diluting and infesting what used to be a bastion of enthusiasts and amateurs creating content they were absolutely passionate about.
They're still out there but getting drowned out by the corporate sponsored dross and harder and harder to find.
I think it’s a little harsh to suggest that people who want to make a living in podcasting are all mostly talentless wannabes. Just because you make a living off something doesn’t mean it can’t...
I think it’s a little harsh to suggest that people who want to make a living in podcasting are all mostly talentless wannabes. Just because you make a living off something doesn’t mean it can’t also be a passion project.
It's a pretty old sentiment among people who like hanging around certain subcultures, though. There is a famous article on the phenomenon: "Geeks, MOPs, and sociopaths in subculture evolution".
You've misinterpreted and over generalised what I wrote. I did not say and did not mean all - I even address specifically that talented and enthusiastic people still exist. Just a massive increase...
You've misinterpreted and over generalised what I wrote.
I did not say and did not mean all - I even address specifically that talented and enthusiastic people still exist. Just a massive increase due to ad sponsorship and the infestation of ads in podcasts.
Ok, I replaced the word ‘all’ with ‘mostly’. If that isn’t what you intended to say, I suggest going back and rewording your own comment, which was already a massive over generalization.
Ok, I replaced the word ‘all’ with ‘mostly’. If that isn’t what you intended to say, I suggest going back and rewording your own comment, which was already a massive over generalization.
My absolute favorite podcast has no sponsors and no ads, for which I love them so so much. Also it is hilarious. So I'll plug them here and say "wtf" to all the other podcasts. The Film Reroll...
where the podcast host is forced to talk about their sponsors.
My absolute favorite podcast has no sponsors and no ads, for which I love them so so much. Also it is hilarious. So I'll plug them here and say "wtf" to all the other podcasts. The Film Reroll
Advertising has annoyed me for years. As a child it was just the way the world was, but now I'm much more aware of how my attention is spent. My time is my most valuable resource, and I refuse to spend it listening to someone tell me about products I don't give a shit about just because someday I might have a user for it. Broadcast TV is unwatchable to me now after years of Netflix and Plex content. I have adblockers on everything, and I'm very aggressive with filtering and unsubscribing my email. If there was a vote to ban all forms of advertising I would quit my job to campaign for it.
I just finished the Pokemon reroll and oh my god, it was so good. There's a point in there where the cast starts to be able to understand what Joz is saying in her Pikachu voice (which was...
I just finished the Pokemon reroll and oh my god, it was so good. There's a point in there where the cast starts to be able to understand what Joz is saying in her Pikachu voice (which was astoundingly good BTW) that had me cracking up
I've enjoyed every movie so far except for Rogue One, but even that has moments. Pitr as K2SO was to die for. My absolute hands down favorite is Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. They nailed the...
I've enjoyed every movie so far except for Rogue One, but even that has moments. Pitr as K2SO was to die for. My absolute hands down favorite is Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. They nailed the characters, and the ending, OMG so perfect and thematically on point.
Wow, and people here are fine with this sort of gatekeeping shit? Just a reminder that if it's a viable career that means there's an audience, ergo people who appreciate podcasts that may not be...
The worst part is that podcasting is now a viable career option encouraging ever more talentless wannabees diluting and infesting what used to be a bastion of enthusiasts and amateurs creating content they were absolutely passionate about.
Wow, and people here are fine with this sort of gatekeeping shit?
Just a reminder that if it's a viable career that means there's an audience, ergo people who appreciate podcasts that may not be to your taste. So there's no world in which your comment doesn't straight up mean "God damn kids, liking things I don't like".
Besides, advertising has nothing to do with the quality of the podcast itself. There's some very high quality stuff out there that's sponsored by audible/hover/whatever and embeds itself in the middle of the podcast. But it's still skippable, usually obvious where the ad begins and ends.
Advertising has seemed like the ultimate industry to me for quite some time. "Ultimate" in the sense that ultimately everything is in service to serving you an ad. Buy, buy, buy.
Advertising has seemed like the ultimate industry to me for quite some time. "Ultimate" in the sense that ultimately everything is in service to serving you an ad. Buy, buy, buy.
The thing I ultimately end up thinking about when I think about advertising is how it all seems, ultimately, like a shell game -- there's layers and layers of stuff propping each other up, but...
The thing I ultimately end up thinking about when I think about advertising is how it all seems, ultimately, like a shell game -- there's layers and layers of stuff propping each other up, but underneath it all, like the kid on Floor 13 of Wayside School, is a dead rat. If I think about it too much it makes me really nervous about it all being a huge bubble.
I definitely agree with what the author is trying to say, but I think he also brings on things that aren't necessarily in the realm of advertising and more in the realm of shady business practices...
I definitely agree with what the author is trying to say, but I think he also brings on things that aren't necessarily in the realm of advertising and more in the realm of shady business practices in general. I definitely wish he would go more in depth in how advertising tends to influence people, such as early techniques developed by Edward Bernays (He wrote about them in a book called "Propaganda" if you want to check it out.) Honestly though, I would agree with his assessment that the internet has completely gotten more corporate, and in a way, it feels like the fun is ending.
What used to be awesome shortcuts and things barely anyone knew about, like streaming for example, now has become massively incorporated and is on the verge of becoming a worse option than cable. Which maybe wouldn't bother me too much as there is the open seas still, but I really get nervous about loss of personal freedom on a place that I used to feel was a refuge. Not like saying horrible things, but just being able to really engage with people in multiple ways. Being able to express oneself in a community of people who were doing the same exact thing. I felt like I was really reaching people and talking to them. That's what drew me to places like Reddit in the first place, and now these days places like those feel bloated, shallow, and not the same as the past. Still, whose to say our little lifeboat here won't end up like Reddit.
I honestly don't know what the recourse is for the internet, as more and more people get hooked up online, and it becomes more and profitable for companies to become more involved their their branch of the internet. Especially in today's neoliberal economic era with massive mergers and acquisitions making big companies even bigger, I really get nervous that the fringes of the bastion of the promise of the early internet will be swept out in the interests of profit.
Advertising is, and has always been strictly necessary. Getting people to learn about your product to choose to spend their resources on it has been the name of the game since before the invention of money. Knowing what's on the market is also a prerequisite for me getting the most out of my money. I want relevant advertising to me. When I buy a new laptop, or car, or choose where I go grocery shopping, I want to know I'm making the best decision for me.
Anti-ad (and usually privacy-concerned) people using crazy and extreme language, like calling advertising cancer on society, gets in the way of transmitting their message. People tune out those who espouse extremist, seemingly senseless views rather than engaging them. Normal people's reactions to the author here saying "ads are cancer!" aren't typically
They're just people moving on with their lives and real issues.
Pretty much all the issues outline regarding ads are issues of a poorly regulated US advertising market. Consumer rights in the US have always been weak due to the extreme strength of free speech regulations trumping the competing right of punishing people who lie and mislead.
US companies get to make claims and use strategies illegal in the EU. In several countries in Europe:
Further, many of the other issues listed regarding advertising aren't issues of advertising at all, but issues of platforms (who've chosen free ad-financed business models) not moderating the content on their site properly and therefore not removing the junk so we see that as humans.
I'd make a comparison to email prior to effective spam filters. Except that we all know automatic filtering will never be an adequate response to moderating a platform. You need to hire people. How you pay for that density of employees in relation to your users is up to the business. That required standards platforms have to adhere to are an issue for lawmakers: require spam and junk content not to reach domain hosts, search engines, social media platforms etc.
Almost all the "symptoms" of the advertising "cancer" are issues with US law that can be rectified.
The argument made here is that advertising as a concept is bad. The argument made is way, way too broad. Ads are a slight inconvenience. Some other forms of advertising should obviously be illegal in the US like they are elsewhere. Many other countries will surely ban even more of the types of advertising we see today.
Specific ad technologies are bad. As more and more content competes for our attention, it's self-evident that the competition ads and everything else faces from other sources of content is increasingly tough.
It's easy to say "advertising bad." We all know that's not fundamentally true though.
Since we both live in EU jurisdiction, we both know that ads don't lie, or our strong consumer watch dogs will help us punish those companies if we don't want to sue ourselves.
I completely agree that we can't trust the messaging, the feeling in an ad, the unbelievable context around the product and so on. We all know buying gum doesn't get you that supermodel. But when a company says "you can get this laptop with these specs for this price" that's real. Same thing goes for knowing about that new flavor of ice cream, remembering that local plumber exists, telling me that there's a concert and so on.
The whole idea of society is innovation being met by us as a society enacting new regulations where we determine how that new innovation should fit into our legal systems.
If we give up the belief in a functioning democracy, but blame what we fail to regulate instead, we've given up control of society and turned that over to whoever takes that power for themselves.
I think we're really seeing how far behind regulation is on advertising right now with all of the sponsored content being put out by "influencers" on Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, etc. For the USA, the FTC put out a big list of guidelines, but a lot of the recommendations in there are pretty vague or hard to follow, and there doesn't seem to be much significant enforcement of it at all.
I'm a bit tired of arguments that go "no, this thing isn't the problem, lots of individual issues with this thing are the problem!". Maybe if advertising causes these problems when running unchecked, advertising is the problem. It's obvious from context and common sense that the article doesn't call for some dystopian "end to all advertising" but better regulation – and maybe a push for alternative monetization methods for internet services.
What I'm saying is "No, ads aren't cancer, ads need to be regulated better."
To me the author seems to be saying "Ads are a literal cancer on society. I wish we could remove them entirely, but the cancer has come so far that'd kill the person. We need to kill the cancer piece by piece instead for now."
Except the author is Polish and lives in Krakow. Advertising is a worldwide problem.
I think the problem here is that you are considering perhaps a broader view of advertising than the author is. You are using the broadest version of Advertising; things like being put in a directory of services or having a sign over the door of the shop. While the author doesn't mention these specifically, I don't think he's including this type of advertising and instead seems to be focused specifically on persuasive forms of advertising.
I think of it much simpler than this.
If I see an ad, and I'm not intentionally shopping, I want to sue someone for it.
When I am shopping, I am perfectly happy to see advertisements, and only then.
The rest of your regs up there wouldn't make me happy. They'd make things better, sure, but I'd still be bitching about it, and running my array of ad-blocking software to keep that garbage out of my brain.
I note you didn't include a requirement to be true and factual during the advertisement in there. That would have taken care of one of my pet peeves - the fact that most ads are lies, exaggerations, and rife with inaccuracy and exploitative behaviors. Is that included in your point about EU laws? If so, wonderful, I'll take it. If not, I think the EU is still coming up short. I want a false ad to put a company out of business within the month, or at least fine them so hard they never even think about doing it again, and neither does anyone else.
You appear to be confusing marketing and advertising.
The author is explicitly talking about the same thing I am, as far as I can tell:
Hmm, I overlooked that paragraph.
In which case, I strongly disagree with both you and the tfa. I like having nice and useful things, and some degree of marketing must occur for me to be able to know about them. Even if it’s something as simple as “my store sells hammers.”
Hear hear.
I've been thinking this for a long time now and I'm glad to see someone take the time to highlight the various disparate issues.
My personal pet hate is the spytech introduced into podcasts through aggregator services and apps. Not to mention the crass embedded ads (in the middle and spread throughout) podcasts where the podcast host is forced to talk about their sponsors.
The worst part is that podcasting is now a viable career option encouraging ever more talentless wannabees diluting and infesting what used to be a bastion of enthusiasts and amateurs creating content they were absolutely passionate about.
They're still out there but getting drowned out by the corporate sponsored dross and harder and harder to find.
I think it’s a little harsh to suggest that people who want to make a living in podcasting are
allmostly talentless wannabes. Just because you make a living off something doesn’t mean it can’t also be a passion project.It's a pretty old sentiment among people who like hanging around certain subcultures, though. There is a famous article on the phenomenon: "Geeks, MOPs, and sociopaths in subculture evolution".
You've misinterpreted and over generalised what I wrote.
I did not say and did not mean all - I even address specifically that talented and enthusiastic people still exist. Just a massive increase due to ad sponsorship and the infestation of ads in podcasts.
Ok, I replaced the word ‘all’ with ‘mostly’. If that isn’t what you intended to say, I suggest going back and rewording your own comment, which was already a massive over generalization.
My absolute favorite podcast has no sponsors and no ads, for which I love them so so much. Also it is hilarious. So I'll plug them here and say "wtf" to all the other podcasts. The Film Reroll
Advertising has annoyed me for years. As a child it was just the way the world was, but now I'm much more aware of how my attention is spent. My time is my most valuable resource, and I refuse to spend it listening to someone tell me about products I don't give a shit about just because someday I might have a user for it. Broadcast TV is unwatchable to me now after years of Netflix and Plex content. I have adblockers on everything, and I'm very aggressive with filtering and unsubscribing my email. If there was a vote to ban all forms of advertising I would quit my job to campaign for it.
I just finished the Pokemon reroll and oh my god, it was so good. There's a point in there where the cast starts to be able to understand what Joz is saying in her Pikachu voice (which was astoundingly good BTW) that had me cracking up
I've enjoyed every movie so far except for Rogue One, but even that has moments. Pitr as K2SO was to die for. My absolute hands down favorite is Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. They nailed the characters, and the ending, OMG so perfect and thematically on point.
Wow, and people here are fine with this sort of gatekeeping shit?
Just a reminder that if it's a viable career that means there's an audience, ergo people who appreciate podcasts that may not be to your taste. So there's no world in which your comment doesn't straight up mean "God damn kids, liking things I don't like".
Besides, advertising has nothing to do with the quality of the podcast itself. There's some very high quality stuff out there that's sponsored by audible/hover/whatever and embeds itself in the middle of the podcast. But it's still skippable, usually obvious where the ad begins and ends.
Advertising has seemed like the ultimate industry to me for quite some time. "Ultimate" in the sense that ultimately everything is in service to serving you an ad. Buy, buy, buy.
The thing I ultimately end up thinking about when I think about advertising is how it all seems, ultimately, like a shell game -- there's layers and layers of stuff propping each other up, but underneath it all, like the kid on Floor 13 of Wayside School, is a dead rat. If I think about it too much it makes me really nervous about it all being a huge bubble.
Now there's a reference I haven't heard in awhile.
I definitely agree with what the author is trying to say, but I think he also brings on things that aren't necessarily in the realm of advertising and more in the realm of shady business practices in general. I definitely wish he would go more in depth in how advertising tends to influence people, such as early techniques developed by Edward Bernays (He wrote about them in a book called "Propaganda" if you want to check it out.) Honestly though, I would agree with his assessment that the internet has completely gotten more corporate, and in a way, it feels like the fun is ending.
What used to be awesome shortcuts and things barely anyone knew about, like streaming for example, now has become massively incorporated and is on the verge of becoming a worse option than cable. Which maybe wouldn't bother me too much as there is the open seas still, but I really get nervous about loss of personal freedom on a place that I used to feel was a refuge. Not like saying horrible things, but just being able to really engage with people in multiple ways. Being able to express oneself in a community of people who were doing the same exact thing. I felt like I was really reaching people and talking to them. That's what drew me to places like Reddit in the first place, and now these days places like those feel bloated, shallow, and not the same as the past. Still, whose to say our little lifeboat here won't end up like Reddit.
I honestly don't know what the recourse is for the internet, as more and more people get hooked up online, and it becomes more and profitable for companies to become more involved their their branch of the internet. Especially in today's neoliberal economic era with massive mergers and acquisitions making big companies even bigger, I really get nervous that the fringes of the bastion of the promise of the early internet will be swept out in the interests of profit.
My understanding is that's where Tor comes in.