Good enough kitchen appliances brands recommendations
Hello everyone,
I'll be moving to a new apartment where the kitchen does not have any kitchen appliances. From my searches on /r/BuyItForLife, it seems everyone usually recommends Bosch and Miele appliances, but they are usually a bit on the expensive side. I'm not sure about buying for life at this stage in my life because I think this is not my final home, and I think in the future I won't be bothered to take everything with me. Also, it will be always be easier to sell the apartment in the future with the equipped kitchen.
It seems Panasonic and Mitsubishi appliances are actually quite good and cheaper than Bosch and Miele, but unfortunately, these brands are basically non-existent here in Europe (regarding kitchen appliances, I mean).
So, basically, is there still any brand left that might be as good as Bosch and Miele but slightly cheaper? Maybe Whirlpool or Electrolux brands?
No.
I made the mistake earlier believing that higher price meant better quality parts. That is generally not what manufacturers do today.
The difference between the base model and the premium model is the number of features. Very rarely are those features improved quality.
My guidance (based on personal experience) is that if the product does not have a 10 year manufacturer warranty as an option then assume it has been made to fail. Purchase based on the features you need. Not on the belief that spending more will get you better quality.
To illustrate my point a low end stove will have plastic knobs. A high end model will have heavier knobs made from steel. The feature being sold is heavy knobs that feel like a well built product. But in both cases the stove uses an electric circuit board that is placed next to the internal venting that will overheat and fail well before your easily replaceable knobs break. As a consumer it is up to you whether paying for metal knobs is worth it. But don’t be mistaken that it represents a better quality / longer lasting purchase.
In that vein, you probably don't need 2/3 the features that are being marketed in any given kitchen appliance.
Do you really need a blender with 10 different presets? Or any buttons on a microwave other than a knob to set time and intensity? Or being able to see inside your fridge without opening the door?
Don't ever buy any smart appliance in the kitchen. The odds of it being obsolete or desupported inside of 5 years is huge.
Given the price point of any model with lots of bells and whistles vs one with none, go with the one with none. Future you will thank you.
Seconding this - the base model from a brand that sells on quality will almost always be more robust than the top-end model from a brand that runs the gamut from value to premium. The quality brand base model will often be cheaper than those "high end" ones from other manufacturers too; I know there are a lot of fridges more expensive than my bog-standard Bosch, for example, which are actually just other manufacturers' cheap models with a few bells and whistles and a premium exterior finish.
In addition to features, the volume of an appliance can't be undersold. My washer, dryer, and dishwasher are SO LOUD, but I'm in an apartment where my appliances are in the kitchen but also basically my living room. My parents upgraded their appliances in the last few years and they're whisper quiet. Both are Whirlpool dishwashers, but theirs is nearly silent when operating.
And one more data point. Often the core of these appliances are all manufactured by one or two companies. So the brand you buy is responsible for the look and feel, but many of the internal parts are all the same.
I'm not sure this is entirely the case. While the parts might be the same and even have the same part numbers, sometimes the difference is binning. Not every instance of a manufactured part coming off a production line is the same quality, and you can specify a minimum/maximum quality level when ordering.
For example, machine tools - only because I know about this from a recent purchase. There are a hundred identical-looking benchtop bandsaws available under different brands ranging from Axminster to Scheppach to Titan. They all come from the same factory in China, they all have the same part number on their motors. But the Axminster branded ones are made with parts from the top bin - the bits with the best QA scores. Sheppach are somewhere in the middle and Titan are built using the crap that fell off the line halfway through construction and has been used as a football by the factory staff for six months. This is reflected in their pricing (although pricing is also related to brand presentation, Axminster want to be seen as higher end so they charge more) but more importantly in their smoothness and longevity. Sure, the finish details change - metal knobs rather than plastic and so on, but you do - sometimes - get better internal parts the more you pay.
When it comes to dishwashers at least, anything that doesn't have a metal tub is going to be an order of magnitude less reliable and efficient. Bosch is one of the cheaper offerings with that feature. Anything with a plastic tub should be written off if reliability is a priority.
Can't speak to Electrolux quality, but at a glance they're just as pricy as Bosch.
The sad reality is that most stuff is garbage anymore, and once your model is out of warantee, if the control board breaks you're SOL and buying a new appliance will probably be cheaper.
I’ll give the indirect answer. If your local library provides access to Consumer Reports, that can be a really good resource when making these kinds of decisions.
Consumer Reports is oriented towards the U.S. market, and even my Canadian friends have remarked that it doesn't cover all the brands and models available there. Manufacturers have also gamed reviewers by having zillions of fractionally different models and SKUs, so it's difficult to judge a given model when a feature you're looking for wasn't reviewed or was made with different parts.
In the U.S. at least, the big-box vendors have user reviews posted for the specific models they're selling. Given the known biases of user reviews, it's usually best to look for percentage of 1 star reviews across manufacturers, and then look at details to see if there are common significant problems.
American, so I can’t speak to brand availability. The logic I’ve heard is to buy brands that have been around since before integrated circuits became common. The example I’ll use is that Samsung appliances often have trouble with parts availability only a few years after purchase, whereas Whirlpool ones don’t. That doesn’t negate the issue with everything having ICs, but being able to get parts period is good.
I just helped my parents clean and repair their gas stove and oven. It is a Kenmore brand (Sears), but our model was built by (I am pretty sure) Electrolux. In terms of repair ability, it is a really good product. I was able to take it apart enough to reach all the important bits with just a screwdriver and a bit of time. Parts are still available, despite Sears and Kenmore not existing (at least not in the way they used to). I was able to remove the control board and reflow some of the solder joints for the display which was acting up, saving a $300 part. The oven igniters are the current problem, and those are about $120 each (it has 3, 2 ovens and a broiler burner).
I have no idea if any of this is helpful. I would look for brands that have parts available for 10+ year old machines.
Samsung. In recent years I've never gone wrong buying South Korean stuff. Unlike many companies who make boxes and buy in parts, Samsung make stuff from scratch. Lots of stuff. So their things are often different from everyone else's.
Not sure if they do fridges and such but they definitely do washing machines and after the birth of my kid ours has seen some serious shit (literally, reusable nappies take quite a toll) and is still running beautifully. A friend works at a big warehouse cheap appliance retailer in the UK and she said the only brand they never saw back under warranty was Samsung.
Is a washing machine generally a kitchen appliance where you live? I think washing machine, fridge, freezer, dishwasher. Anything that comes in a box 600x600x850mm, I guess.
You can always go used. Doesn't matter if your dishwasher fails after two years if you only paid £15 for it. The next one we got was a full stainless steel Siemens and it was amazing for 5+ years: cost me £60, the guy just wanted it out of the house. The thing about appliances is they are big and annoying when not fitted so people generally just want to get rid of them so they're often very cheap. They either have replacements in place or they're moving house soon and either situation favours you. Also you're keeping things out of the waste stream a bit longer.
Oh, Beko are fine. They're cheap and fairly flimsy feeling but they work for a decent amount of time and spares are easily available, and cheap.
I came here to say avoid samsung. Have had many stoves fail (i work with an aprtment building). There are recalls and class actions regarding control boards.
Anecdotally, everyone I know who's bought a samsung washer or dryer within the last 10 years has had it fail within its first three years. A lot of the people who've had problems used to be big samsung fans and said their previous washer/dryer lasted a decade or more.
Just to update your anecdotes: My Samsung washing machine is somewhere around 5 or 6 years old, can't entirely remember. The kid is four and I bought it while they were still discrete gametes. But it's taken a beating for the last four years at least. Which reminds me, I must do some more laundry... Also anecdotally, everyone I know with Samsung washing machines have had zero issues.
But anecdotes are pretty unreliable for getting a bigger picture, so let's see if we can find some non-anecdotal data. According to these people, Samsung washing machines are only beaten for reliability by LG - like I said, always buy South Korean. A bit of googling suggests that UK review sites all rate them highly too. For other appliances, Samsung consistently rank highly as well. There's loads of other rankings/reviews around which have Samsung at or near the top for performance and reliability.
It's almost like I looked all this kind of data up before buying a Samsung.. ;)
That’s a confusing and conflicted endorsement. Since their reliability rating depends on units sold, and they aren’t selling that many units, the rating is not credible here. CR rates samsung stoves poorly, although later in the article they take a reasonable pass at CR’s methodology.
I completely agree - we've had Samsung washers in two homes and they're fantastic. The one in the current house is 10 years old, gets regular doses of sand, and doesn't even squeak if we throw in a comforter.
But their design and quality clearly isn't consistent across all products or models. You'd think a washing machine and a dishwasher would incorporate similar technology, but the big magnetic direct drive motors on Samsung and LG clothes washers are very much more reliable than the dishwasher sprayer drives.
We had a < 10 y.o. Samsung dishwasher that came with the house we bought a couple of years ago. We quickly discovered it had a nasty squeak... After doing the basic maintenance things, we called in a repairman. This gentleman glumly advised us that the unitary cassette mechanism couldn't be disassembled, had no independently replaceable parts available, and would cost 80% as much to replace as a brand-new unit. We got a second opinion, did our Internet homework... This is a known thing with Samsung and LG dishwashers.
Bought a Bosch, never looked back. It's so quiet, power-efficient, well-designed, and gets things squeaky clean.
Panasonic is sold under many names and I would be amazed if none of them are sold in Europe. National is one they tend to use the most for homewares.
I don’t know if they are sold everywhere but I am really satisfied with most Breville kitchen appliances. For the most part they are a little more friendly to use and they are made with good enough quality.
When it comes to the larger appliances though, I’ve got nothing. Just look for long warranties and local service centers. Also avoid gas like plague and get an induction stove.
It's worth mentioning Panasonic has a unique advantage for microwaves. They hold the patent for varying the power to the transformer to produce less power, rather than every other microwave which must turn on at full power for a bit, then turn off entirely for a bit, turn on at full, etc.
Notes from several cycles of homeownership:
Bosch for dishwashers, as noted above. We've had to replace four dishwashers in 3 different homes (the super-cheap one bought new lasted only 5 years). Get Bosch. Even the cheapest Bosch is fine, but every added feature at the mid-tier is useful and the noise reduction is fantastic. We can run the dishwasher and listen to music, hold a conversation, or sleep. You won't regret it.
Cheap refrigerators - don't bother. You'll spend more money on electricity, refrigerant leaks, spoiled food. Crappy interior organization and breakable plastic bins/door hardware/freezing problems will cost you more time than it's worth. Good 'fridge brands (U.S., anyway) are Samsung and LG. Whirlpool and Kenmore are increasingly distant third-place options - the quality of the brands has dropped significantly.
Stoves - we're shopping for one because the 15 year old Viking that came with the house has hideously expensive replacement parts. The electronic bits inside that fancy stainless exterior are crap, to put it bluntly. Nearly all of the piezoelectric gas igniters and the underlying control boards have gone kaput in the last two years. Induction cooktops with electric convection ovens are the preferred choice these days for multiple reasons (precise control, green power, and healthier air quality), and I'd think electric would be preferable to gas in Europe right now anyway. Unfortunately, the technology is new enough at mid-grade consumer prices that I don't think any particular brand has a track record for durability.
Edit: If you're shopping for a kitchen with a very small footprint and don't anticipate cooking for multitudes, then a single induction hotplate, countertop convection/toaster oven, electric kettle, and small microwave might comprise a less expensive and more space-efficient solution than a stove. You can easily store away whichever pieces you aren't using. We visited with a friend who has this arrangement and he managed to feed us very nicely.
I recently got a Bosch dishwasher. I had no idea dishwashers can be nearly silent. And even its Quick 60 minute wash cycle gets the dishes clean just as well as my old (and perfectly good) dishwasher's full cycle. It also seems to be able to hold much more dishes while being slightly smaller.
Echoing this. My husband and I have used a quality countertop convection toaster oven for ~10 years as our primary oven. We have the full-sized one under our stove that my husband uses for hobby baking, but for all other stuff, it goes in the much smaller oven on our countertop. The time save in pre-heating alone is worth it — it takes maybe one minute? Two at the absolute most. Compare that with the big oven, which would probably still be pre-heating by the time our toaster oven has finished cooking.
In terms of brands, we had a Breville that worked great until the front panel with the buttons broke. We used it for maybe a year after that and would just have to do lots of extra turning and button-pressing to get it to take inputs. Once it actually took the inputs it worked as intended for that year or so, but then we ran into issues where the whole thing started cutting out even when on. This made us concerned about both food safety and fire, so we got rid of it.
We then got gifted a Ninja toaster oven/air fryer combo that is surprisingly good. Had it for maybe two years and it’s still working great. It has a much lower clearance than the Breville so that is sometimes an issue, but it also means it pre-heats almost instantly because there’s less volume.
Oh, and if you’re looking at reviews for toaster ovens, be sure to actually read the contents of some of the 1-star reviews. On the bad ovens a lot of complaints were things like “the glass on the door shattered during baking”. On the good ovens, however, there would be 1-star reviews that complained that the oven was “hot to the touch while on” or something similar, which isn’t a problem with the oven but with the user’s expectations.
Anecdotally I know of both Neff and Stoves induction hobs which are approaching a decade of use with no issues. The latter being in my kitchen. Neff (and Bosch) are Siemens underneath, Stoves are a UK company. The Siemens stuff is expensive, but they are good. That said, there's not a lot to fail on an induction hob.
I think toaster ovens are quite an American thing. I've never seen one in a UK/EU kitchen. A quick google suggests you can buy them here but there aren't many to choose from and most of what I did see was suspiciously cheap (as in, cheap parts which will break fast kind of cheap)
IMHO almost everyone should get rid of their ovens and use a toaster oven instead. Traditional ovens are far too large, which means they are exteremly inefficient, and if they are gas powered they are literally poisoning you and your family. Most modern toaster ovens are relatively spaceous so you can cook most things in there and many go above and beyond by adding features like convection fans and even air frying and/or microwaving capabilities. But even at minimum, you'll have an oven that gets to temperature much quicker, is generally going to be at a level that makes it easier to use and observe, and can be easily moved if you need extra space.
The only things that regular ovens are better for is when you want to cook a large volume of things, like roasts, full sheet cakes, or large loafs of bread. But those aren't generally things that I see people cooking often.
I'm actually kind of surprised that toaster ovens are not that popular in the UK given that I hear that housing tends to be small. I know in a lot of places throughout Southeastern Asia it's really common to furnish small dwellings with Microwave/oven combination units.
I cook at least one of those at least once a week. Mostly big trays full of roast veggies, and of loaves bread - I don't make lots of cakes.
I'm not sure my idea of a "large" oven is the same as yours. My main oven cavity is about 40x40x35cm (WxDxH, internal) and that's about standard for a UK oven. Perhaps a little on the small side but only a bit. Takes under ten minutes to get from cold to 200C. I do have a separate, much taller oven as well, but that's because I am a bit unusual and have a 90cm wide range cooker with five hobs. A standard UK cooker is 60x60x85cm and includes oven, grill (broiler in US) and four hobs.
Every combination microwave I've ever had has caught fire. Admittedly that's only been two, but that feels like too many.
I'm not at home to measure, but I'd imagine that the oven you're using is probably half the size of the kinds of ovens I'm thinking of. Even so, toaster ovens still have some benefits over your traditional style oven depending on what you want out of it.
In all honesty, the trend of multi-use toaster ovens have also made them blow up in size at the same time. This model by Breville is a pretty good example because it's essentially what a lot of the manufacturers are trying to replicate these days. While the product page doesn't say how big the actual cooking area is the total size isn't too far off from the area you're mentioning. The big difference, however is that it gets hot much faster; while I don't have this particular model, my toaster oven gets to 400F in a little over one minute; it's fast enough that for most things I don't even bother to preheat. Keep in mind that this is with our 115V power supplies as well.
(I don't have this oven, by the way; mine was a cheap supermarket one the husband bought for about $100, so it doesn't have the super fancy things like PID temperature controls and dehydration settings)
When I was talking about roasts, I was referring to big "holiday" style meat roasts of the sort where you can feed a small family and have enough leftovers for one or more full family meals later in the week. You can still roast and bake in a toaster oven, they just can't do the huge things.
Yeah, the one you link is slightly larger than my oven!
Kitchens here in the UK tend to be short on worksurface space - I've lived places where an oven like that would use up a third of the available worktop area.
Room temp to 200C in under a minute with less than 2kW of power available (115V at 15A) is incredibly impressive.