I've been pretty consistent in staying below $20 whenever I buy wine, typically not straying higher than $15. I've certainly had some really bad, cheap wines that were tough to stomach, but I...
I've been pretty consistent in staying below $20 whenever I buy wine, typically not straying higher than $15. I've certainly had some really bad, cheap wines that were tough to stomach, but I think most of what I've had in my price range are all good enough for my tastes.
I have had one really good 25-year-old cabernet sauvignon that was gifted to me and it was spectacular, so I definitely understand the difference between good and bad wine. But it's tough for me to justify going into the price range those wines require. I seem to recall reading an article that unless you're willing to drop over $80-100 you're not going to notice much a difference, but I sometimes wonder if that's your taste cortex in your brain giving into the sunk cost.
I wonder about this a lot, but I actually think it doesn't matter. Taste happens in the brain, not in the mouth, and a lot of factors go into it — smell, appearance, and maybe even other...
I seem to recall reading an article that unless you're willing to drop over $80-100 you're not going to notice much a difference, but I sometimes wonder if that's your taste cortex in your brain giving into the sunk cost.
I wonder about this a lot, but I actually think it doesn't matter. Taste happens in the brain, not in the mouth, and a lot of factors go into it — smell, appearance, and maybe even other information that one has like cost. So even if one has somehow willed themselves into believing a certain wine tastes better, then for all intents and purposes it really does taste better.
I inherited my father's wine collection. He has some rather expensive wines in his collection, over $200/bottle retail. I enjoy drinking those wines because they were his and remind me of him, but...
I inherited my father's wine collection. He has some rather expensive wines in his collection, over $200/bottle retail. I enjoy drinking those wines because they were his and remind me of him, but objectively, they taste different, but I don't think they necessarily taste better than a $10-$20 wine I get from the store.
To your point, I toured a winery not too long ago and their winemaker was talking about how a very aged bottle of wine is also not necessarily better, just different.
To your point, I toured a winery not too long ago and their winemaker was talking about how a very aged bottle of wine is also not necessarily better, just different.
I have come to the conclusion that good company and/or setting is probably the most important. I have had great wine at a nice evening with good people, and bought the same wine for a glass at...
I have come to the conclusion that good company and/or setting is probably the most important. I have had great wine at a nice evening with good people, and bought the same wine for a glass at home. And then it was complety flat. Of course the quality of the wine matters and a good mental state can't save a bad drink, but I would say it is a huge factor in whether a decent wine is experienced as decent or great.
It is also possible that the bottle you brought home was spoiled in some way. When a bottle has very small amounts of cork taint (a chemical called trichloro-anisole or TCA) it can make the wine...
It is also possible that the bottle you brought home was spoiled in some way. When a bottle has very small amounts of cork taint (a chemical called trichloro-anisole or TCA) it can make the wine taste “flat”. TCA inhibits your detection of aroma compounds. It acts mostly on the fruit flavors, so small TCA infections are particularly bad on fruity wines (which is most of them in the current market). And at these low levels, it’s incredibly difficult to realize it is TCA, even with a lot of training.
That is a really good point! The 25-year old cab I ended up drinking with a bunch of friends while camping and there's no doubt that really heightened the experience.
That is a really good point! The 25-year old cab I ended up drinking with a bunch of friends while camping and there's no doubt that really heightened the experience.
Taste [more accurately, flavor], happens mostly in the brain. There are physiological factors that influence flavor (which is taste+aroma) that are outside the purview of the brain, such as the...
Taste happens in the brain, not in the mouth,
Taste [more accurately, flavor], happens mostly in the brain. There are physiological factors that influence flavor (which is taste+aroma) that are outside the purview of the brain, such as the presence or absence and density of specific types of receptors.
Obviously those receptor variations are meaningless without the brain, but there are variables that are controlled separately from the brain.
I have, once, sampled wines that are four figures a bottle (like, quarter glasses on a wine flight at a restaurant that regularly graces the best in the world lists) and they're something else....
I have, once, sampled wines that are four figures a bottle (like, quarter glasses on a wine flight at a restaurant that regularly graces the best in the world lists) and they're something else. It's like a completely different drink. Absolutely sublime.
But that's not to say that £5 bottles can't be nice too.
It's like music. The London Philharmonic in the Albert Hall are not the same as The Vengaboys blasting tinnily from someone's phone but they can both be perfectly enjoyable depending on what you're looking for at the time.
I'm no sommelier, but I was a bartender at a wine bar for a few years so I've had exposure to quite a few high end wines, and as an adult I drink wine fairly often with friends. And in my...
I'm no sommelier, but I was a bartender at a wine bar for a few years so I've had exposure to quite a few high end wines, and as an adult I drink wine fairly often with friends. And in my experience....you can find good and bad wines at every price point, depending on what you are looking for. The trivento malbec is very cheap and is an amazing wine, but I've also had other malbecs at that price point I'd never buy again. I've had Opus One and it was good.....but nothing to write home about and definitely not worth the price tag, while Sassicaia was phenomenal, not that I'd want to drink it every day but it was nearly without faults. It maybe helps that in none of these cases was I the one shelling out for the expensive bottles so had no skin in the game, so-to-speak. What most gets me is wine....tastes like wine, the difference between varietals is certainly pronounced, but they all taste like wine. So you really have to get in the weeds before you're able to blind recognize any differences, and to me shit wine is shit wine, no amount of terroir or cassis or whatever other flavor words people use can fix that.
I'd love if there were more.....concrete ways to tell which wines were good or not at the store but like beers, it's all pretty labels and fancy words. Certainly staying in the budget-normal price point is the lowest risk and the highest gain, like you said.
A fancy third-wave coffee place near me has a sign that says that coffee has more flavor variety than wine (or something like that). Not sure if that's true, but I think the same general principle...
A fancy third-wave coffee place near me has a sign that says that coffee has more flavor variety than wine (or something like that). Not sure if that's true, but I think the same general principle is true for both -- there are a lot of important subtleties and there can be very bad and very good varieties of each, but in the end coffee tastes like coffee and wine tastes like wine.
Exactly, they can wrong their hands about it but friggin Gatorade tastes more different flavor to flavor than wine or coffee does haha. And I'm an enjoyer of both!
Exactly, they can wrong their hands about it but friggin Gatorade tastes more different flavor to flavor than wine or coffee does haha. And I'm an enjoyer of both!
I'm lucky enough to live near really good vineyards. In my experience the step-function of quality difference happens when you buy wine from smaller family run vineyards. That wine is more...
I'm lucky enough to live near really good vineyards. In my experience the step-function of quality difference happens when you buy wine from smaller family run vineyards. That wine is more expensive - no economies of scale - but not necessarily $80-100. The cheapest these vineyards can sell wine for is around $40 per bottle. They often don't operate at a scale where you can reliably find their wine in stores so you're best off finding one that you really like and then going in person to buy.
Every Christmas my mom does a blind wine test from different wines that she's collected over the course of the year. Nine times out of 10, the wines on the cheaper side win out. When I lived in...
Every Christmas my mom does a blind wine test from different wines that she's collected over the course of the year. Nine times out of 10, the wines on the cheaper side win out.
When I lived in Madrid, the table wine (house wine) was always so good. I'd always have at least one glass at dinner. And I don't personally really enjoy wine (except for sake). In the US, most wines don't sit we'll with me, cheap or affordable.
Idk why "We are not pigeons" entertains me so much. But I expected this to be a "Two/Three Buck Chuck" situation, instead it was a "worst wine we could find winning" situation.
Idk why "We are not pigeons" entertains me so much.
But I expected this to be a "Two/Three Buck Chuck" situation, instead it was a "worst wine we could find winning" situation.
At least the US has offerings like $2/3-buck-chuck. In Singapore, there is no cheap alcohol. Wine already twice as much as €3 / sgd$4.37 minimum, before the 8% GST and the actual product cost. Now...
At least the US has offerings like $2/3-buck-chuck. In Singapore, there is no cheap alcohol.
As of 2021, the excise duty rate for wine is sgd$88 per litre of alcohol. This means that a 750ml bottle of wine with an alcohol content of 13% would be subject to an excise duty of sgd$8.58.
Wine already twice as much as €3 / sgd$4.37 minimum, before the 8% GST and the actual product cost. Now think about that tax on bitters and spirits. And that’s retail price… Now think about the markup at a bar or restaurant.
Even before having kids, I’ve effectively become a financially-motivated teetotaler since moving here.
I’ve seen headlines like this in the past, and usually the take away is “fancy wine isn’t really, the whole thing is a scam.” This case, however, seems more like low end journals in academia. The...
Along with the announcement, organizers also notified the winners that they could buy 1,000 gold stickers to display on their wine labels for just €60.
I’ve seen headlines like this in the past, and usually the take away is “fancy wine isn’t really, the whole thing is a scam.” This case, however, seems more like low end journals in academia. The contest organizers just care about profit, and make sure that every company can win an award if they just enter enough.
I've been pretty consistent in staying below $20 whenever I buy wine, typically not straying higher than $15. I've certainly had some really bad, cheap wines that were tough to stomach, but I think most of what I've had in my price range are all good enough for my tastes.
I have had one really good 25-year-old cabernet sauvignon that was gifted to me and it was spectacular, so I definitely understand the difference between good and bad wine. But it's tough for me to justify going into the price range those wines require. I seem to recall reading an article that unless you're willing to drop over $80-100 you're not going to notice much a difference, but I sometimes wonder if that's your taste cortex in your brain giving into the sunk cost.
I wonder about this a lot, but I actually think it doesn't matter. Taste happens in the brain, not in the mouth, and a lot of factors go into it — smell, appearance, and maybe even other information that one has like cost. So even if one has somehow willed themselves into believing a certain wine tastes better, then for all intents and purposes it really does taste better.
I inherited my father's wine collection. He has some rather expensive wines in his collection, over $200/bottle retail. I enjoy drinking those wines because they were his and remind me of him, but objectively, they taste different, but I don't think they necessarily taste better than a $10-$20 wine I get from the store.
To your point, I toured a winery not too long ago and their winemaker was talking about how a very aged bottle of wine is also not necessarily better, just different.
I have come to the conclusion that good company and/or setting is probably the most important. I have had great wine at a nice evening with good people, and bought the same wine for a glass at home. And then it was complety flat. Of course the quality of the wine matters and a good mental state can't save a bad drink, but I would say it is a huge factor in whether a decent wine is experienced as decent or great.
It is also possible that the bottle you brought home was spoiled in some way. When a bottle has very small amounts of cork taint (a chemical called trichloro-anisole or TCA) it can make the wine taste “flat”. TCA inhibits your detection of aroma compounds. It acts mostly on the fruit flavors, so small TCA infections are particularly bad on fruity wines (which is most of them in the current market). And at these low levels, it’s incredibly difficult to realize it is TCA, even with a lot of training.
That is a really good point! The 25-year old cab I ended up drinking with a bunch of friends while camping and there's no doubt that really heightened the experience.
Taste [more accurately, flavor], happens mostly in the brain. There are physiological factors that influence flavor (which is taste+aroma) that are outside the purview of the brain, such as the presence or absence and density of specific types of receptors.
Obviously those receptor variations are meaningless without the brain, but there are variables that are controlled separately from the brain.
I have, once, sampled wines that are four figures a bottle (like, quarter glasses on a wine flight at a restaurant that regularly graces the best in the world lists) and they're something else. It's like a completely different drink. Absolutely sublime.
But that's not to say that £5 bottles can't be nice too.
It's like music. The London Philharmonic in the Albert Hall are not the same as The Vengaboys blasting tinnily from someone's phone but they can both be perfectly enjoyable depending on what you're looking for at the time.
I'm no sommelier, but I was a bartender at a wine bar for a few years so I've had exposure to quite a few high end wines, and as an adult I drink wine fairly often with friends. And in my experience....you can find good and bad wines at every price point, depending on what you are looking for. The trivento malbec is very cheap and is an amazing wine, but I've also had other malbecs at that price point I'd never buy again. I've had Opus One and it was good.....but nothing to write home about and definitely not worth the price tag, while Sassicaia was phenomenal, not that I'd want to drink it every day but it was nearly without faults. It maybe helps that in none of these cases was I the one shelling out for the expensive bottles so had no skin in the game, so-to-speak. What most gets me is wine....tastes like wine, the difference between varietals is certainly pronounced, but they all taste like wine. So you really have to get in the weeds before you're able to blind recognize any differences, and to me shit wine is shit wine, no amount of terroir or cassis or whatever other flavor words people use can fix that.
I'd love if there were more.....concrete ways to tell which wines were good or not at the store but like beers, it's all pretty labels and fancy words. Certainly staying in the budget-normal price point is the lowest risk and the highest gain, like you said.
A fancy third-wave coffee place near me has a sign that says that coffee has more flavor variety than wine (or something like that). Not sure if that's true, but I think the same general principle is true for both -- there are a lot of important subtleties and there can be very bad and very good varieties of each, but in the end coffee tastes like coffee and wine tastes like wine.
Exactly, they can wrong their hands about it but friggin Gatorade tastes more different flavor to flavor than wine or coffee does haha. And I'm an enjoyer of both!
I'm lucky enough to live near really good vineyards. In my experience the step-function of quality difference happens when you buy wine from smaller family run vineyards. That wine is more expensive - no economies of scale - but not necessarily $80-100. The cheapest these vineyards can sell wine for is around $40 per bottle. They often don't operate at a scale where you can reliably find their wine in stores so you're best off finding one that you really like and then going in person to buy.
Every Christmas my mom does a blind wine test from different wines that she's collected over the course of the year. Nine times out of 10, the wines on the cheaper side win out.
When I lived in Madrid, the table wine (house wine) was always so good. I'd always have at least one glass at dinner. And I don't personally really enjoy wine (except for sake). In the US, most wines don't sit we'll with me, cheap or affordable.
Idk why "We are not pigeons" entertains me so much.
But I expected this to be a "Two/Three Buck Chuck" situation, instead it was a "worst wine we could find winning" situation.
Pigeons in this context means “fools” (we are not fools/dupes). French expression: Quel pigeon! (what a fool!)
I didn't know that but I think I got the vibe of it. Not one my French teacher taught me in class though!
My primary takeaway:
Curses loudly and prolifically in wine-in-the-US-is-too-f*cking-expensive
At least the US has offerings like $2/3-buck-chuck. In Singapore, there is no cheap alcohol.
Wine already twice as much as €3 / sgd$4.37 minimum, before the 8% GST and the actual product cost. Now think about that tax on bitters and spirits. And that’s retail price… Now think about the markup at a bar or restaurant.
Even before having kids, I’ve effectively become a financially-motivated teetotaler since moving here.
That's not a bad thing, considering the amount of damage it does.
I wish it was way more expensive in Poland.
Five buck Chuck (it's gone up) is a rare exception. Most wine here is more than 15 USD.
Europe has it so damn good.
I’ve seen headlines like this in the past, and usually the take away is “fancy wine isn’t really, the whole thing is a scam.” This case, however, seems more like low end journals in academia. The contest organizers just care about profit, and make sure that every company can win an award if they just enter enough.
Interesting story.
It is over a year old.
So what you are saying is that it doesn't age well.
Ha ha ha.