Choosing a TTRPG system
When I was in elementary school, I found some Advanced Dungeons & Dragons books at a yardsale. I read through them, brought them to school, and played through a basic campaign with some friends. Since then, I haven't met anyone interested in pen-and-paper RPGs. I still hope that I can one day convince someone to play with me, but I don't even know which system I should try to learn. There are now so many different editions of D&D, in addition to countless alternatives and endless arguments over the merits of each.
Whatever system I decide to learn, I will need to invest time and energy into learning and teaching the game to others, and I'll most likely be the DM, so I'd like to choose one that won't be too difficult for beginners to get into. While I enjoy exploring interesting game mechanics, I think the idea of creating an interactive adventure story or a world to explore with friends is what attracts me the most. The Fate system sounded interesting, but I had a hard time understanding the core rulebook. I've recently read short summaries of several other systems that seem like they could be fun and not too hard to get into, such as Index Card RPG, Shadowdark, Tiny Dungeon, Five Torches Deep, Fantasy AGE, and Creative Card Chaos; but I can't afford to read through each of them and seven editions of D&D to determine which one is most suitable for me.
Does anyone have any advice on how to evaluate my options or a suggestion for a good one to start out with?
My advice is that getting too bogged down in this decision too early will mean you're less likely to actually play. For someone new to (or returning after a long time away from) TTRPG and especially to get friends into it, I think the best choice is just to pick up D&D 5th edition and some pre-made modules. They just released a new core rulebook and it is compatible with previous 5e content.
If you find/build a crew that loves playing then there will be plenty of time to try new systems or build your own content in the future. For now just getting started asap will be the most beneficial because there are so many other things that make it challenging to start (scheduling, finding a compatible social group, etc.)
D&D is flexible enough to support whatever balance you want of storytelling/mechanics, premade content, homebrew content, etc., and it has far and away the most resources available online for new players who want to look things up and get help.
I completely agree, with one massive caveat. I'd strongly suggest Pathfinder 2 instead. WOTC is dead, mostly thanks to Hasbro mismanagement and WOTC being run by people who hate tabletop gamers.
PF2 is D&D, except that Pathfinder books give you vastly more bang for the buck. In fact you don't even have to buy the books because unlike WOTC, Paizo maintains a very friendly open-source relationship with their community. One Pathfinder book has more than any 3-4 modern WOTC releases in it. They don't even publish one until it's several hundred pages, built like a brick with excellent toughness. I consider WOTC products to be weak fluff by comparison.
Your biggest problem will be finding a place that has PF2 books in stock, since they can't keep them on shelves due to the demand (for over a year now).
Isn't Pathfinder more complicated?
As someone that has recently made the transition I'd say that both pathfinder 2e and D&D 5e are pretty fundamentally complicated games compared to plenty of lighter options in the space. I actually don't know if either game is drastically more complicated than the other, they just manifest it differently.
D&D does a good job of looking a bit simpler on the surface which can be appealing as a new player sitting down to look at the material. This comes at the expense of having a lot of gaps where there isn't much guidance on how to do something and the DM has to patch things together on the fly and homebrew parts of the system to get it to work. This can be a lot of slowdown for rules arbitration, etc. in the thick of things sometimes.
Pathfinder 2e has a lot more of these edge cases fleshed out and tighter balance as a whole. This is great support if you're the one running the game and generally it plays a bit more tactically and consistent, but seemingly having a rule for everything can be a lot to wrap your head around at first glance. The arithmetic of adding bonuses to your dice roll can also lead to bigger numbers I suppose, which I know some find off-putting.
I'm definitely a bit biased in which I prefer but you can definitely have a lot of fun with either.
Not really, in fact I'd say it's about the same from a crunch perspective. Going through a pile of fluffy WOTC books, beta classes, and unearthed arcana errata is more complicated than just having a couple massive pathfinder tomes where everything is well indexed and was put together smartly from the start. WOTC does too much shovelware to line their pockets.
Skills, feats, abilities, races, etc are all carbon copies of D&D. The system is more versatile, less rigid, and has a pile of good bug fixes for a lot of D&D's core problems and failings. You can actually rely on challenge ratings in Pathfinder, and they have literally never worked in any version of D&D for example. Combat is more streamlined, hit points and death situations are handled better, action economy is much simpler, and character classes are about as well balanced as I've ever seen in any TTRPG. PF2 even managed to keep casters and melee and rogues well balanced from levels one to twenty, something else no version of D&D ever did.
Golarion is a very solid campaign setting too, big world, tons of interesting adventure hooks. The systems are close enough that a moment's head calculation can convert from any version of D&D or other D20-based games into Pathfinder, it's built for that. Simple thing to import content from other games.
I'll also add that anyone familiar enough with D&D to make a new character will find that even easier in Pathfinder, since they've dispensed with rolling dice for ability scores. It's a hard point build system that's very easy to understand, so there won't be any broken characters due to poor rolls or bad choices in class/archetype combinations. In PF2 everything (and I mean everything) is like a Feat in D&D. You can pick ones outside of your class as well, which makes for a much better option than D&D's messy multi-classing system.
Pathfinder 1 is heavily based off D&D 3.5, which is more complicated in some respects than 5e, but my understanding is that Pathfinder 2 (which is relatively new) is more streamlined. That said, I think both Pathfinder versions are far too crunchy for OP's purposes.
Pathfinder 2 had two goals, far as I remember. The first was to bug fix the D&D system they inherited, and they knocked that one out of the park. The other was to publish fewer and better books so well play-tested, so full of options and streamlined content, that people would pay for them even though they were free. I'd say they managed that as well.
It's not really that D&D itself is bad, it's that WOTC manages it terribly, injects politics into it, attacks their online and streaming community, and lately has been trying to pull the entire tabletop world into the virtual space, which in my book is a cardinal sin. They are doing the same things that companies like Unity, Ubisoft, Adobe, Sony, and so many others have gotten instant vicious karma for doing. I refuse to trust a management team that makes decisions that bad no matter how many times they apologize, especially when there are better options on the table. That's my rant for today. :P
There's also Nimble's combat hacks which make entire combats take about five minutes, since the attack and damage rolls are combined into one roll and the weapon types matter even more. It's compatible with anything D20. If OP wants something really simple, combat doesn't get easier or faster than this. Simple solution, just halve the amount of dice hitting the table - wonder why nobody ever thought of that before now? :)
"The problem with D&D" is not that WOTC is "mismanaging it by injecting politics into it." The problem is that it's suited for a narrow subset of tabletop experiences but has cultivated a fanbase that refuses to engage with any system outside of D&D even when D&D's design is not suited for the type of experience they want to have. Pathfinder 1 more or less was created as a drop-in replacement for D&D 3.5, which it serves as really well! WOTC also has done plenty of bad shit both in and outside of the ttrpg space, so it's totally valid if you want to stop supporting WOTC (if we agree on one thing, it's how much we don't trust WOTC). But that doesn't magically make Pathfinder suited for running every type of tabletop experience either, just as no version of D&D has ever been suited for running every type of tabletop experience.
Different systems are better or worse at different things based on how they were designed. D&D and Pathfinder are not suited to run, for example, a modern urban fantasy mystery. Similarly, I wouldn't run a high fantasy dungeon crawl in Call of Cthulhu or World of Darkness. This extends to more granular choices within genres as well -- D&D (3.5 and 5e) and by extension Pathfinder have quite crunchy combat, even when compared to some older editions of D&D. That's not a good or a bad thing, but rather a preference thing. There are players that really love that type of crunchy combat and great campaigns built around it. But OP's description of a story-focused adventure story-style campaign struck me as something that indicated a desire for less crunch, which means other systems may fit what they're looking for better than D&D or Pathfinder. The indie RPG space has absolutely loads of great options for what OP wants!
That doesn't mean I don't think Pathfinder is a good game -- I actually quite like it! I found Pathfinder 1 to have made a number of improvements over D&D 3.5 when I played it, and I suspect 2e is in a similar position relative to 5e. But you don't pick up a hammer when you need a screwdriver unless you're in dire straits, and there's no shortage of options that better fill OP's desired niche on the market.
This doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of WOTC DND problems, but we have to admit they made some strange lore changes for real world reasons. The whole push to remove any kind of evil races and monsters was incredibly hamfisted, and it wasn't even well done unlike Pathfinder's ancestry and heritage system. I'm not even getting into the whole Drow thing...
WoTC's sub-par attempts to get rid of some genuinely pretty bad and racist elements of D&D have definitely been not that great, but in my experience those who place "inserting politics into D&D" anywhere remotely high on their list of "things wrong with WoTC" list tend to be exactly the sorts of people whose opinions on racism and sexism in ttrpgs I have zero respect for. I'm not surprised Pathfinder did it in a less hamfisted way, because WoTC has made plenty of questionable and hamfisted design decisions, but I've encountered far too many people with genuinely racist opinions complaining about this to lend it any credence.
Well I don't think of myself as racist, but I am a nerd that was seriously annoyed by WOTC changing long-standing lore in strange ways that removed complexity and intrigue so. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Oh like I said, they did not handle a lot of it well, I have my fair share of criticisms there, but there's a huge gulf between criticizing how WoTC approached those changes and saying that it's THE thing that's wrong with WoTC D&D when it's nothing more than a drop in the bucket.
I think this is the best advice here, and I say that as someone who doesn't really like D&D as a system all that much. The best RPG is the one you actually play, and you can get started with D&D fairly easily and quickly - just find people. Other RPGs have their benefits, but there's usually fewer resources for them. You should definitely give them a go, but if you're getting action paralysis just from looking at all the different options, then the best solution is usually to pick something good enough to start with, and then look into alternatives as you get more invested.
Edit: another option is to find a group first, and then play what they're playing. That way, you don't need to worry about the decision.
I'm going to push back against the people recommending D&D 5e. While it is the most accessible due to its popularity, it's not really designed for running every type of game, so it may actually not be the best choice depending on the type of campaign you want to run. Sure, you can ignore 90% of the rules and just do improv the whole time, but you can do that with literally any system; D&D 5e is not unique in that respect. If you had people around you already familiar with 5e who would only want to play a campaign in that system, that would be one thing. But if you're going to choose a system and teach it yourself anyway, you might as well choose one that's more suited to the type of game you want to run and that's easier to learn -- D&D 5e's combat is still pretty crunchy, after all, and it's far from rules-light.
I think other systems in the space probably fit your goals better than 5e if you want a rules-light story-focused adventure. Unfortunately I can't give more recs than you've already been given by @arghdos with PbtA and FitD, since my preferences in ttrpg genres err more on the side of modern settings and mysteries and I'm thus not very familiar with any niche titles in the adventure story side of things.
I definitely echo the earlier response to look for ttrpg spaces online if you can't find anyone already interested in the hobby irl. Even if you don't want to run or play in a campaign remotely through something like Discord, having a social network of people into ttrpgs (especially indie ttrpgs) is going to help you get exposure to more systems and ideas. Especially if you need to be a ttrpg evangelist for your friends irl, it can be useful to have others experienced with ttrpgs to bounce ideas off of or ask for advice.
My first thought was to go with something in the OSR space - Sparks I happen to know you know Dolmenwood, it's things in that vein. D&D-esque resolution mechanics but generally much simpler systems stripped down to their essentials.
Old School Essentials for something setting-neutral and well polished but much easier to pick up than 5e and with a bunch of published adventures to boot.
I’ve found discord to be the most hopping place for TTRPG talk / finding games, etc. I’ve run games for people I know who aren’t gamers and it’s been fun, but never really stuck.
There’s a world of story-first, less complicated games out there. Two very common systems in this space are Powered by the Apocalypse (PtbA), originating from Apocalypse World, or Forged in the Dark (FitD), originating from Blades in the Dark. There’s … many dozen games out there using each system and once you know one, you know about 60-80% of them all.
Another good resource is actual play podcasts. Find a system you’re interested in and there’s a good chance there’s an AP of it somewhere. So not only do you get to learn the system, but you also get to hear somebody’s campaign/story. I’ve been binging Oathsworn lately which runs Band of Blades, a FitD offshoot
A couple more which will suit certain types of people. I highly highly recommend Savage Worlds for anyone that doesn't want to deal with fiddly rules and systems but still appreciates dice rolling and unique character abilities.
If you're mostly interested in the narrative side of things and want to focus on fantasy and fiction, FATE does a good job. It's easy to teach and play, and it has an even simpler version in FATE Accelerated!
Both of those are setting-agnostic rules systems which you can use in any kind of story you want. Some systems are designed for specific types of stories, so it you want something like a high-tension horror oneshot then you might consider a setting or genre specific system like Dread.
Edit: u/mantrid I missed that you'd already looked into FATE and had trouble understanding it. I'd recommend starting with FATE Accelerated because the core rulebook for the full game is a bit confusing. These videos should cover everything:
After years of playing 5e, our DM got kind of sick of players still not knowing exactly what their characters could do (seriously, there were flowcharts made and everything), and combat turns took forever.
To "fix" this, we switched to Shadowdark (after a stopover in Old School Essentials-land), and we haven't looked back. Players are much more constrained in their options, so you don't get the analysis paralysis of 5e. Combats buzz along, even with 6 or 7 players at the table. You get the lethality of old D&D with the modern convenience of d20 roll-over. The rules are extremely easy to read and use, whether in book form or in PDF, and all of them (player and DM) are in one book.
There's no adventure or specific setting in the core book, but there are three 'zines (for now, more are coming next year) called Cursed Scrolls that are each set in a different milieu and include new character classes and an adventure in that setting. Old D&D modules are stupid-easy to convert (drop a zero from the treasure, and swap the D&D monster stat blocks for the equivalent SD one); some people do the conversion on the fly during play. There's also a pretty active community (Reddit and Discord) making new (often free) stuff all the time.
At the very least, I'd suggest you read the free Quickstart rules (available at the above link), which you can also use to run a session or two to see how you like it.
I know what you mean re Dnd. I don't blame people though, characters have so many individual unique mechanics that even as an experienced player I find it hard to remember them all.
That's why I tend to go for OSR (or specifically post-Osr) type games for a lot of that fantasy hack n slash fix. Mork Borg and the like are dead simple and great fun.
I worry about the 5e2024 rules; everything I've read is that the player characters have even more options and power. I think it's about to get even worse.
You're in a difficult position, I understand.
Honestly, my advise is also to pick up DnD 5th ed. Its not perfect, I simply don't play it over other systems any more, but its a gateway game. People who are interested in trying TTRPGs and the vast majority of people looking for a game are looking for 5th ed.
You can have a lot of fun with 5th ed too! Especially if you homebrew a bit as you go.
Then, one day, when you have a group or at least some friends you can call up to play something, you can venture into other systems you want to run.
+1 from me
A lot of people know how to play 5e, and even if you don't it takes about a combat session and a small role play arc to learn, and you'll be basically good to go. Once you get a good group going, you can use that momentum to learn other systems on off days or days where you don't quite feel like getting the "main campaign" going.
This is what I did basically with my main DnD group, on any off days we'd just do a "one shot" day in different systems to feel them out, so I've learned how to play the Avatar Legends and Call of Cthulu systems as well!
Also, if OP has the financial means, I'd highly suggest any of the Starter Kits created for many of the systems they're interested in. Off the top of my head I know Call of Cthulu has one, Cyberpunk Red just put one out, and DnD definitely has one!
D&D is good because everyone knows about it, but it isn’t the most accessible.
https://www.mythmeregames.com/collections/swords-wizardry?srsltid=AfmBOopPUKhH76UYbaVJx-geJAMxH56lf3JKP3Tf28o2x7W0v3RfkQO3 is a great alternative most like advanced d&d
If you want to get people in asap and don’t mind stepping away from high fantasy, Mothership is amazing.
You can also get any game setting started in 30 minutes with the quickstart rules for GURPS and I find GURPS to have a lot of the same “Wooo!” Joy get from rolling 20’s in DnD. GURPS also plays really fast. Just remember GURPS is a toolbox, so use what you want and ignore what you dont like.
As for getting people interested Deborah Ann Woll had the most genius way to explain how D&D works. I played this to someone today who had no idea what dnd was and she replied “i want to play that!”
https://youtu.be/JpVJZrabMQE?si=POq5zaUgSY9IITvI
She just plays with him right there. It’s genius.
But for better recs, are you looking just at fantasy? There are a lot of amazing, rules lite systems out there for just about every genre.
I'm going to dodge the question and advise you to look into ttrpg conventions ( online and irl ). Typically held over a weekend, you can sign up for a wide variety of games and see what is out there.
Thing is what might be a great game/ system for me to run might really suck for you. Running Bitd requires a different headspace to DND as an example. You need to figure out what kind of stories and systems work for you and the way to get that is trying them out.
I would advise that you decide whether you want a system to guide your creativity, or if you want to be unshackled by a system to be as creative as you’d like!
Many systems have a particular play style and setting in mind (eg Delta Green is about dying in the mud to old gods, Shadowrun is about thugs played with as pawns by corporations in a techno-fantasy setting, etc.) and bludgeoning them into doing what “you’d” like to make can be difficult. By contrast, if you don’t exactly know what you want to do but the gist of one of those systems sound interesting, you need only pick whichever one has the most pre-made adventures to your liking and go with it.
My group has played GURPS for a decade and found it to be excellent for running almost everything we’d like, and we’re only now looking into other systems. The lite rulebook is free and 32 pages, so it’s relatively simple to get into it as well! The downside is that it’s intended to be used as a toolkit: GURPS is a relatively internally consistent system for mechanically interpreting your players’ actions (eg answering whether that gap was jumped, if the sword was wrestled out of the ork’s hand, whether picking the lock succeeded or triggered a trap, etc.) without outlining every possible scenario and having specific rules for each one. Necessarily though this means that you need to either buy all the expansions which cover the topic you’d like “or” come up with them yourself.
I would suggest finding a group in your area in which you can be a player. If that's impossible, I suggest finding a group online in a platform such as Roll20. A more recent impression of one or two of the systems you are contemplating might be helpful.
Participating in other people's games will also provide with a social environment where you may find people interested in having you as a DM, and the preferences of your potential players should be taken into account in your choice of system.
This is probably the best advice.
There's probably a Adventure League (check WoTC website)/or Pathfinder Society or maybe something else at a game store near you for a drop in/out style.
It lets anyone learn without ever really making a purchase (support your FLGS - friendly local game store). The one I help out at in Pittsburgh is very welcoming of anyone, even never played before folks.
Play with friends, don't fret the system too hard
Said as someone that plays a lot of different systems (my favorite is Blades in the Dark). Someone said pick one for theme and watch a how to build a character and find a series of it and you'll probably be set. Any new system is going to have a learning curve except maybe one page systems like Lasers and Feelings, I constantly am learning parts of any system I play or run.