Honestly I'm... not too sure how it's been taking so long considering it looks like it's running on the same engine/system that Scarlet and Violet ran on, it even has some of the similar...
Honestly I'm... not too sure how it's been taking so long considering it looks like it's running on the same engine/system that Scarlet and Violet ran on, it even has some of the similar stuttering even in the trailer. Buttt I enjoyed Legends Arceus a lot and the new Battle System being in real time looks very interesting!
But imagine how much more disappointing that stuttering will be on a Switch 2! Thank God 2! = 2 And if we don't play Pokemon games just to be disappointed, I don't know why we play them. Why do we...
But imagine how much more disappointing that stuttering will be on a Switch 2! Thank God 2! = 2
And if we don't play Pokemon games just to be disappointed, I don't know why we play them. Why do we play them???
I just like the cute little mons and catching them, they're a perfect podcast/plane game for me lol. perfectly safe, not too much to think about, and just engaging enough that i can shut my brain off.
I just like the cute little mons and catching them, they're a perfect podcast/plane game for me lol. perfectly safe, not too much to think about, and just engaging enough that i can shut my brain off.
I for one prefer them taking their time. In the past few games I can find traces of GameFreak having to cut content to meet deadlines. It's most visible in XY and Sword/Shield (I will die on the...
I for one prefer them taking their time. In the past few games I can find traces of GameFreak having to cut content to meet deadlines. It's most visible in XY and Sword/Shield (I will die on the hill we were supposed to battle a G-Max Toxtricity as part of the story and that it played a role in the Darkest Day), but there are hints in almost all the games (they didn't cut almost all interiors in SV for fun). I'd say Gen 7 (particularly USUM) and Legends: Arceus are the most "complete" to their original vision, and with Arceus it's probably due to not having to work with the stupid annual release schedule of the mainline games.
On that note, I remember being wary of the initial trailer for Arceus due to some obvious stuttering, but the final game felt a lot smoother. Still a bit janky of course, but not nearly as rough as I'd feared. This one will probably be tougher on the system since the games always noticeably struggle with more characters and Pokémon on screen. Arceus was largely set in open spaces, while Lumiose City is a highly populated city with a LOT of assets. Given their track record with optimizing 3D games, they'll need all the time they can get to make it smooth.
Real-time for pokemon seems crazy! The turn-based battles are such an integral part of the series that this feels like a major shift from the norm. But then again, 2D also felt pretty integral...
Real-time for pokemon seems crazy! The turn-based battles are such an integral part of the series that this feels like a major shift from the norm. But then again, 2D also felt pretty integral until 3D came out. And grid-based movement also felt like the standard until omni-directional movement became a thing. So hopefully this new battle system is fully fleshed out and redefines the series.
Its probably unlikely that this will carry forward into the main series, as Legends:Arceus used this same battle system but they went back to the more traditional format in Scarlet/Violet.
Its probably unlikely that this will carry forward into the main series, as Legends:Arceus used this same battle system but they went back to the more traditional format in Scarlet/Violet.
I don't actually think this is the same battle system as PLA - the real-time elements sound like a stark difference, and there's no turn order sequence as far as I can tell.
I don't actually think this is the same battle system as PLA - the real-time elements sound like a stark difference, and there's no turn order sequence as far as I can tell.
Given that they announced Champions today as well with an emphasis on core battle mechanics, I don't think this will really shake up the main games. The VGC scene there is way too mature for that....
So hopefully this new battle system is fully fleshed out and redefines the series.
Given that they announced Champions today as well with an emphasis on core battle mechanics, I don't think this will really shake up the main games. The VGC scene there is way too mature for that.
But I wouldn't mind these Legends series being used with an alternate playstyle running alongside the main games.
I fell off of Pokemon after Sun/Moon, but I really enjoyed Legends:Arceus. It recaptured the magic for me that I felt playing the first few games as a kid. Im looking forward to seeing what they...
I fell off of Pokemon after Sun/Moon, but I really enjoyed Legends:Arceus. It recaptured the magic for me that I felt playing the first few games as a kid. Im looking forward to seeing what they do with this new game and how they advance the mechanics they introduced in the last Legends game.
I've been down with the Digimon lately, and looking at their history, it is a stark contrast to Pokemon. Digimon, for all its faults, has been willing to try different stuff. Each of the first...
I've been down with the Digimon lately, and looking at their history, it is a stark contrast to Pokemon. Digimon, for all its faults, has been willing to try different stuff. Each of the first four Digimon World games were different from one another in big ways, but they didn't do so hot commercially. Folks wonder why mainline Pokemon games have largely stagnated, I think they saw Digimon try new stuff, fail, and said "we're good."
Though Legends Arceus was the most fun I had with Pokemon in ages. The realtime combat of this one seems like a fun experiment, but the cityscape setting is probably making this one an easy pass.
It's a bit like capitalism isn't it, Pokemon is the big corporation that doesn't really need to innovate but Digimon has been taking risks and trying to innovate because they have so much to catch...
It's a bit like capitalism isn't it, Pokemon is the big corporation that doesn't really need to innovate but Digimon has been taking risks and trying to innovate because they have so much to catch up to compared to the biggest media franchise ever existed.
True, though the situation was a bit different in the late 90s/early 00s when the two were just coming out and finding their footing. Pokemon had yet to hit biggest media franchise and Digimon was...
True, though the situation was a bit different in the late 90s/early 00s when the two were just coming out and finding their footing. Pokemon had yet to hit biggest media franchise and Digimon was still big in the West, a pretty solid competitor in the space thanks to the resources of Bandai. I don't know about you, but where I was at, the competition between Pokemon and Digimon kids was fierce during this time (but also a bit like console wars where at the end of the day, everyone just liked monsters). But the competition didn't last and Pokemon consolidated its power.
I had about 1 digimon figure when I was a kid and don't know too much about it tbh, my elementary school experience was all about pokemon though, so I might be biased in that front!
I had about 1 digimon figure when I was a kid and don't know too much about it tbh, my elementary school experience was all about pokemon though, so I might be biased in that front!
Well, they did kind of start at different places. Pokemon was a video game first and foremost, while Digimon was originally supposed to be a digital pet that you could link together for battles -...
Well, they did kind of start at different places. Pokemon was a video game first and foremost, while Digimon was originally supposed to be a digital pet that you could link together for battles - basically a glorified tamagotchi. That's the biggest reason why they've had to innovate; they didn't have the solid base that Pokemon had. "Wait around for your critter to bug you" has limited appeal, after all.
Even though it was a game first, by 1998 when they brought it to the West they had the show AND the games AND cards AND figures AND comics AND etc to push. I took a digital media course in college...
Pokemon was a video game first and foremost, while Digimon was originally supposed to be a digital pet
Even though it was a game first, by 1998 when they brought it to the West they had the show AND the games AND cards AND figures AND comics AND etc to push. I took a digital media course in college and we spent a whole class talking about Pokémon becoming a force; NoA, WB, WotC, and every other company involved turned it into an absolute blitzkrieg on every medium to hype the hell out of it (out the back of Pikachu Beetles where necessary) and got the mouse in every direction American kids were looking. I don't think any other property stood a chance. (Plus like. "Gotta Catch Em All" is like the most disgustingly capitalist thing you could point at kids lol)
There was a bit of difference in strategy too, I think - it sounds like Digimon's strategy was localizing it really heavily towards the American audience, right? FWIW I had a couple Digimon figures and read a few of the comics, which were American style adaptations of the show. I liked it! The core aesthetic is lasting today, it sounds like it smartly pointed the target age up as time went on and there's still a huge audience.
I do think Pokémon leaning into being Japanese and mildly alien helped it stand out in the West at the time and turn it into a global thing, though. Like, just in the comics space the darker and heavier shounen manga Pokémon Special /Adventures made it over pretty much uncensored and the really Shoujo-style Electric Tale of Pikachu came too. (Very censored!) My dad grew up on Astro Boy, so between the unabashed style and the pretty high-quality binding Viz did he picked Adventures up for me. I demanded he get it whenever it came out because the story was so dramatic, and it got me hooked on manga in the process. Plus there was the whole mystique of cards flying around in Japanese that hadn't come out in America yet but made their way into collections from random traveling uncles and whatnot... Same thing happened with Yu-Gi-Oh, it fired me up to want to learn Japanese and only made me more interested in the property.
Your mention of the manga unlocked a memory for me of reading a random volume of the Yellow manga from our library. It was the only one I read, but it got me hooked to see how dark it was. The...
Your mention of the manga unlocked a memory for me of reading a random volume of the Yellow manga from our library. It was the only one I read, but it got me hooked to see how dark it was. The idea of an evil Lance blew my mind, and so did the plot point about thinking Red was dead.
Even without all the media blitz, I think Pokémon being a video game franchise first still gave it an edge over Digimon. In some ways, video games can be more physically accessible than TV shows since you have to own a video game to play it. Hell, I haven't seen an episode of Hamtaro in years but I still hang onto the games and cherish them. Games are also just more immersive and engaging, and a game like Pokémon has a lot of replay value since you can switch up your team every time.
With TV shows we didn't need to own DVDs or VHS's though unless we really liked it, and it's easy for a show to be forgotten once it finishes airing. And I mainly remember Digimon for the awesome TV shows. I didn't even know Digimon had a digital pet thing, or at least it doesn't stick out in my memory amongst all the other merchandise made to tie into popular shows.
With the Digimon anime as its biggest point of relevance/product, it makes sense Pokémon won that battle.
Yikes my friends. I'm sorry to say that this game looks objectively bad. The graphics look awful, the setting is totally unappealing, the battle system looks janky (walk left to "dodge" an...
Yikes my friends. I'm sorry to say that this game looks objectively bad.
The graphics look awful, the setting is totally unappealing, the battle system looks janky (walk left to "dodge" an attack?), and in general this seems like they took a huge step back from Arceus - a game that already fell short of what it could have been.
I think there are two main camps of Pokemon gamers. There are those who want a ground-breaking upgrade that maintains the traditional Red/Blue approach to Pokemon games, and those who just want Breath of the Wild: Pokemon. I'm in the latter camp and this is about the most discouraging trailer I've ever seen for a Pokemon game, which is really saying something.
Live action battle sounds awesome...if you can play as the Pokemon and approach it somewhat like a traditional combat game. Exploration is amazing...except Arceus was pretty bland and empty.
How does such an insanely wealthy franchise manage to put out garbage so consistently?
Here is the Pokemon game I want:
-A gorgeous map with deep, meaningful exploration. The map of botw with the secrets and gear of Elden Ring.
-A story I can really get invested in. Something serious and dramatic. Something I care about.
-Characters I care about.
-Explore as a human, fight as a Pokemon.
-Deeper systems. Explore for resources. Get gear for your Pokemon, allot limited points to different skills, etc.
Just take 5-6 years and cook up the ultimate Pokemon game guys. You can keep churning out whatever this is annually in the meantime.
I can't fathom the amount of money they could make if they captured people like me - people who are nostalgic for Pokemon but aren't buying the games because they suck.
Oh, and they could microtransaction the hell out of this hypothetical game if they added a multiplayer, even if it was just cosmetics. Shit, make a Pokemon battle royal for all I care.
It’s fine to think that way about the trailer, but I’m not sure what the point is in pretending it’s “objective” when everything you said is subjective. An Elden ring game where you play as the...
It’s fine to think that way about the trailer, but I’m not sure what the point is in pretending it’s “objective” when everything you said is subjective.
An Elden ring game where you play as the Pokemon could not be further from what I’d want from the series.
I do appreciate your point! But I genuinely think the game looks objectively bad in terms of jank, graphics, stepping backward from the upgrades made in prior releases, etc. It's hard to ever say...
I do appreciate your point! But I genuinely think the game looks objectively bad in terms of jank, graphics, stepping backward from the upgrades made in prior releases, etc.
It's hard to ever say any art is objectively bad, which is probably fair. It's also true that I haven't played the actual game. But this trailer is just screaming "worse player experience in terms of every measure we can make from this preview."
Also, I don't want Elden Ring Pokemon. Perhaps I should have worded it more clearly. I just want an open-world Pokemon packed with meaningful secrets and upgrades to drive exploration - like Elden Ring.
Apologies if my initial post came off as a raging rant. I just want so much more for this franchise. They have everything they need for a culture-changing game...except the game.
When a pokemon game releases, it usually is a top 10 game of the year, sometimes top 5, they dont have much incentive to tap into this "hidden market" of gamers. They are selling as much as...
I can't fathom the amount of money they could make if they captured people like me - people who are nostalgic for Pokemon but aren't buying the games because they suck.
When a pokemon game releases, it usually is a top 10 game of the year, sometimes top 5, they dont have much incentive to tap into this "hidden market" of gamers. They are selling as much as Madden.
I'm someone who loves Arceus for its innovation, but I don't see them going out of their way to make a "perfect game" for the long time fans if the usual direction prints stupid amounts of money. From a business perspective, there isn't much value. These games are just a funnel for merch which makes them already "unfathomable" amounts of money.
I can't even say the new "Pokemon Champions" app/game is a step to cater to fans because I know in reality it's likely just their way of moving in to finally shut down Pokemon Showdown.
The setting is definitely a subjective aspect rather than objectjve. At least the city looks less empty than Legends: Arceus and SV though, just by virtue of being set in a city. Hopefully that...
The setting is definitely a subjective aspect rather than objectjve. At least the city looks less empty than Legends: Arceus and SV though, just by virtue of being set in a city. Hopefully that means players can enter more than a handful of buildings. I can fully agree exploration has been lacking in the last several titles, the overworlds have been particularly empty.
I'm hoping that by focusing on a single city rather than trying to flesh out a bunch of areas, they'll be able to add more exploration rewards. And it will be refreshing to have a game set inside a city instead of a region full of empty, undeveloped space. You know, as long as we can enter the buildings.
I feel like they use Legends to experiment with the core gameplay without having to risk messing with the core games. The trailer doesn't give me enough to say whether it's a step back or forward from Arceus. I remember the initial trailer for Arceus made me feel pretty wary due to some obvious performance issues, but the final game exceeded my expectations. Just... Wish they'd carried some of those changes into SV. Exploration in Arceus definitely felt more fun when I could sneak up and throw Poke Balls without having to even battle Pokémon.
If I remember correctly, SV was developed alongside PLA, so it's actually the next main-line game that we should be looking at to see how much of PLA is brought into the main-series proper. I...
Just... Wish they'd carried some of those changes into SV.
If I remember correctly, SV was developed alongside PLA, so it's actually the next main-line game that we should be looking at to see how much of PLA is brought into the main-series proper. I agree that PLA was super refreshing to me, even despite all of its jankiness, and I hope the main-series takes a lot of inspiration from it.
I haven't played any of these new games at all but judging from this trailer it sure looks awful. I play Pokemon Go once in a while and it's a pretty neat game, one's expectations are not high...
I haven't played any of these new games at all but judging from this trailer it sure looks awful. I play Pokemon Go once in a while and it's a pretty neat game, one's expectations are not high since it's a mobile game. Other than that I haven't played a Pokemon game since the Gameboy colour.
I think you and I are part of a pretty large silent majority audience that sees zero appeal of these newer Pokemon games. Basically nothing about it catches my interest. If I saw this video without context, I would guess that it was a game released in 2005. Graphics are not the top priority for what makes a game good, but when it looks outright ugly and so outdated? Can't say I understand why you'd want to play something that looks so unpleasant especially when it's a new release from an AAA(?) developer and it probably won't be cheap. To be fair this opinion also extends to the Switch as a whole. The hardware is so bad! But they have the big name exclusives so I guess people settle.
I guess this company will print money no matter what they release. 100% with you - they should take their time to release a truly good game with true depth that would capture more than their built-in audience.
I don't know for sure if I'm 100% on board with everything else you said, but responding to this in particular, as someone who has been pretty much an outsider to the series since sun/moon as my...
How does such an insanely wealthy franchise manage to put out garbage so consistently?
I don't know for sure if I'm 100% on board with everything else you said, but responding to this in particular, as someone who has been pretty much an outsider to the series since sun/moon as my last (and already very disappointing) Pokemon game, but realistically Diamond/Pearl and HG/SS before that, as I skipped black/white and X/Y, I think it's so obvious looking at the Switch era of Pokemon that Game Freak has to go. I get that they're a major part of the trio that forms The Pokemon Company and likely can't actually be removed as long as they've got their own will to be there, but I genuinely believe there will never be a really good Pokemon video game again until it is made by somebody other than Game Freak.
That's how doomium I am on this franchise. It's genuinely sad.
Looks pretty good actually, you can definitely see Gamefreak getting more comfortable with 3D. Seems to be expanding on what the first Legends game brought to the table, which isn't a bad thing.
Looks pretty good actually, you can definitely see Gamefreak getting more comfortable with 3D. Seems to be expanding on what the first Legends game brought to the table, which isn't a bad thing.
Arceus is one of my favorite games I've ever played. This seems... Aight so far? I'm kinda off on the whole wild zones thing because I found the main draw of Arceus to be its environment,...
Arceus is one of my favorite games I've ever played. This seems... Aight so far? I'm kinda off on the whole wild zones thing because I found the main draw of Arceus to be its environment, exploration, and the seamless way it flowed from catching to fucking up and having a Pokémon attack you or start a fight. Having some stilted areas of the city be wild seems to betray that. At the same time, a friend pointed out all the exploration may turn into rooftop crawling and whatnot, which would be cool. Battle system seems neat, I'm all for it being a testing ground for new stuff.
Who knows, this isn't much and we didn't even get any new Megas or Formes... Arceus was a technical mess and hit some beautiful stride where it didn't matter. I'm thinking this won't hit quite the same, but I love Legends because it felt fresh. Maybe that's a good thing! We'll see.
EDIT: Also it's hard for them to mess up the story, X/Y left so much room on the table from doing nothing with AZ and Zygarde. Hope they take full free reign with it; I loved Arceus and Area Zero, and I know there's a lot they can do with the series.
It's extra weird to me because they chose the Hisuian starters due to themes linked to Japanese culture. (For those unaware, Typhlosion's Japanese name is Bakphoon and a play on bakufu, officials...
It's extra weird to me because they chose the Hisuian starters due to themes linked to Japanese culture. (For those unaware, Typhlosion's Japanese name is Bakphoon and a play on bakufu, officials for the shogun.) These three have no connection to French culture though.
The most fitting would be Snivy and Piplup, since Serperior is based on French nobility and Empoleon is literally named after Napoleon. I figured they might skip Piplup since we just had two games based on Gen 4, but Snivy seemed obvious to me.
I thought that was weird too. They did my boy Cyndaquil dirty. I genuinely would like to hear the reasoning behind those choices, because it makes no sense, lol.
I thought that was weird too. They did my boy Cyndaquil dirty.
I genuinely would like to hear the reasoning behind those choices, because it makes no sense, lol.
Cyndaquil was a starter in Legends Arceus and got Hisuian Typhlosion, so that's likely why it's not there. The other two Johto starters showing up here against Tepig is because, uhhhh, uhhhhhhhhhhh
Cyndaquil was a starter in Legends Arceus and got Hisuian Typhlosion, so that's likely why it's not there.
The other two Johto starters showing up here against Tepig is because, uhhhh,
uhhhhhhhhhhh
One thought that's stuck in my head are the wild areas. It's pretty neat to see they're in the city proper instead of parks. The trailer showed a cafe right inside the gate, but obviously no...
One thought that's stuck in my head are the wild areas. It's pretty neat to see they're in the city proper instead of parks. The trailer showed a cafe right inside the gate, but obviously no people there. The street also isn't notably overgrown or run down.
I'm curious whether those areas still have active businesses, or if something caused them to shut down. In the real world I can't see people abandoning prime real estate to nature like that, so there's some story potential there. It'd be cool to explore an abandoned building and find wild Pokemon hanging out there. (And also, you know, enter buildings)
I can't imagine why they wouldn't put some dungeons in buildings in a series with an absurd amount of building dungeons (seriously, think about it lol), or without dungeons at all after the big...
I can't imagine why they wouldn't put some dungeons in buildings in a series with an absurd amount of building dungeons (seriously, think about it lol), or without dungeons at all after the big impressive climax that people seemed to really like in their last big game was a giant dungeon. But, y'know, Game Freak... I was kinda pissed S/V had practically no dungeons outside of Area Zero to explore - the only one was the big Rock Tunnel kinda thing outside the Psychic gym leader's town. Which you could literally scale up the wall and ignore. (And the one in the middle with the Garchomp and Lucario, I guess? But you could look right into there from the outside...)
Scarlet/Violet had basically zero interiors. Even the Pokemon Centers were outdoor kiosks, and the gyms were empty besides the lobby/desk despite the buildings being massive. It's pretty clear...
Scarlet/Violet had basically zero interiors. Even the Pokemon Centers were outdoor kiosks, and the gyms were empty besides the lobby/desk despite the buildings being massive. It's pretty clear they had to cut interiors for the deadline, especially since there's that one interior from Zapapico found in the files. Without buildings we could enter, SV felt a lot more lifeless to me.
I remember one of my oddly specific desires from Legends: Arceus was to have that gameplay but with more developed towns with actual buildings than just Jubilife Village. Which made SV feel even emptier. So while logically a game in a city should have multiple buildings you can enter, I apparently have developed a bit of a grudge and mild trust issues over this very specific aspect.
My prediction is that Quasartico is buying back parts of the city as a part of the redevelopment plan. It'd be cool if the Wild Zones would gradually get more and more wild over the course of the...
My prediction is that Quasartico is buying back parts of the city as a part of the redevelopment plan. It'd be cool if the Wild Zones would gradually get more and more wild over the course of the game - maybe even something you upgrade yourself?
Honestly I'm... not too sure how it's been taking so long considering it looks like it's running on the same engine/system that Scarlet and Violet ran on, it even has some of the similar stuttering even in the trailer. Buttt I enjoyed Legends Arceus a lot and the new Battle System being in real time looks very interesting!
But imagine how much more disappointing that stuttering will be on a Switch 2! Thank God 2! = 2
And if we don't play Pokemon games just to be disappointed, I don't know why we play them. Why do we play them???
I just like the cute little mons and catching them, they're a perfect podcast/plane game for me lol. perfectly safe, not too much to think about, and just engaging enough that i can shut my brain off.
I for one prefer them taking their time. In the past few games I can find traces of GameFreak having to cut content to meet deadlines. It's most visible in XY and Sword/Shield (I will die on the hill we were supposed to battle a G-Max Toxtricity as part of the story and that it played a role in the Darkest Day), but there are hints in almost all the games (they didn't cut almost all interiors in SV for fun). I'd say Gen 7 (particularly USUM) and Legends: Arceus are the most "complete" to their original vision, and with Arceus it's probably due to not having to work with the stupid annual release schedule of the mainline games.
On that note, I remember being wary of the initial trailer for Arceus due to some obvious stuttering, but the final game felt a lot smoother. Still a bit janky of course, but not nearly as rough as I'd feared. This one will probably be tougher on the system since the games always noticeably struggle with more characters and Pokémon on screen. Arceus was largely set in open spaces, while Lumiose City is a highly populated city with a LOT of assets. Given their track record with optimizing 3D games, they'll need all the time they can get to make it smooth.
Real-time for pokemon seems crazy! The turn-based battles are such an integral part of the series that this feels like a major shift from the norm. But then again, 2D also felt pretty integral until 3D came out. And grid-based movement also felt like the standard until omni-directional movement became a thing. So hopefully this new battle system is fully fleshed out and redefines the series.
Its probably unlikely that this will carry forward into the main series, as Legends:Arceus used this same battle system but they went back to the more traditional format in Scarlet/Violet.
I don't actually think this is the same battle system as PLA - the real-time elements sound like a stark difference, and there's no turn order sequence as far as I can tell.
Given that they announced Champions today as well with an emphasis on core battle mechanics, I don't think this will really shake up the main games. The VGC scene there is way too mature for that.
But I wouldn't mind these Legends series being used with an alternate playstyle running alongside the main games.
No matter how badly optimized pokemon games are, they always sell tens of millions of copies anyway haha
I fell off of Pokemon after Sun/Moon, but I really enjoyed Legends:Arceus. It recaptured the magic for me that I felt playing the first few games as a kid. Im looking forward to seeing what they do with this new game and how they advance the mechanics they introduced in the last Legends game.
I've been down with the Digimon lately, and looking at their history, it is a stark contrast to Pokemon. Digimon, for all its faults, has been willing to try different stuff. Each of the first four Digimon World games were different from one another in big ways, but they didn't do so hot commercially. Folks wonder why mainline Pokemon games have largely stagnated, I think they saw Digimon try new stuff, fail, and said "we're good."
Though Legends Arceus was the most fun I had with Pokemon in ages. The realtime combat of this one seems like a fun experiment, but the cityscape setting is probably making this one an easy pass.
It's a bit like capitalism isn't it, Pokemon is the big corporation that doesn't really need to innovate but Digimon has been taking risks and trying to innovate because they have so much to catch up to compared to the biggest media franchise ever existed.
True, though the situation was a bit different in the late 90s/early 00s when the two were just coming out and finding their footing. Pokemon had yet to hit biggest media franchise and Digimon was still big in the West, a pretty solid competitor in the space thanks to the resources of Bandai. I don't know about you, but where I was at, the competition between Pokemon and Digimon kids was fierce during this time (but also a bit like console wars where at the end of the day, everyone just liked monsters). But the competition didn't last and Pokemon consolidated its power.
I had about 1 digimon figure when I was a kid and don't know too much about it tbh, my elementary school experience was all about pokemon though, so I might be biased in that front!
Well, they did kind of start at different places. Pokemon was a video game first and foremost, while Digimon was originally supposed to be a digital pet that you could link together for battles - basically a glorified tamagotchi. That's the biggest reason why they've had to innovate; they didn't have the solid base that Pokemon had. "Wait around for your critter to bug you" has limited appeal, after all.
Even though it was a game first, by 1998 when they brought it to the West they had the show AND the games AND cards AND figures AND comics AND etc to push. I took a digital media course in college and we spent a whole class talking about Pokémon becoming a force; NoA, WB, WotC, and every other company involved turned it into an absolute blitzkrieg on every medium to hype the hell out of it (out the back of Pikachu Beetles where necessary) and got the mouse in every direction American kids were looking. I don't think any other property stood a chance. (Plus like. "Gotta Catch Em All" is like the most disgustingly capitalist thing you could point at kids lol)
There was a bit of difference in strategy too, I think - it sounds like Digimon's strategy was localizing it really heavily towards the American audience, right? FWIW I had a couple Digimon figures and read a few of the comics, which were American style adaptations of the show. I liked it! The core aesthetic is lasting today, it sounds like it smartly pointed the target age up as time went on and there's still a huge audience.
I do think Pokémon leaning into being Japanese and mildly alien helped it stand out in the West at the time and turn it into a global thing, though. Like, just in the comics space the darker and heavier shounen manga Pokémon Special /Adventures made it over pretty much uncensored and the really Shoujo-style Electric Tale of Pikachu came too. (Very censored!) My dad grew up on Astro Boy, so between the unabashed style and the pretty high-quality binding Viz did he picked Adventures up for me. I demanded he get it whenever it came out because the story was so dramatic, and it got me hooked on manga in the process. Plus there was the whole mystique of cards flying around in Japanese that hadn't come out in America yet but made their way into collections from random traveling uncles and whatnot... Same thing happened with Yu-Gi-Oh, it fired me up to want to learn Japanese and only made me more interested in the property.
Your mention of the manga unlocked a memory for me of reading a random volume of the Yellow manga from our library. It was the only one I read, but it got me hooked to see how dark it was. The idea of an evil Lance blew my mind, and so did the plot point about thinking Red was dead.
Even without all the media blitz, I think Pokémon being a video game franchise first still gave it an edge over Digimon. In some ways, video games can be more physically accessible than TV shows since you have to own a video game to play it. Hell, I haven't seen an episode of Hamtaro in years but I still hang onto the games and cherish them. Games are also just more immersive and engaging, and a game like Pokémon has a lot of replay value since you can switch up your team every time.
With TV shows we didn't need to own DVDs or VHS's though unless we really liked it, and it's easy for a show to be forgotten once it finishes airing. And I mainly remember Digimon for the awesome TV shows. I didn't even know Digimon had a digital pet thing, or at least it doesn't stick out in my memory amongst all the other merchandise made to tie into popular shows.
With the Digimon anime as its biggest point of relevance/product, it makes sense Pokémon won that battle.
I dunno... seeing tamagotchi back in my elementary school you'd think no one was nagged hard enough! lol but yeah that makes sense.
Yikes my friends. I'm sorry to say that this game looks objectively bad.
The graphics look awful, the setting is totally unappealing, the battle system looks janky (walk left to "dodge" an attack?), and in general this seems like they took a huge step back from Arceus - a game that already fell short of what it could have been.
I think there are two main camps of Pokemon gamers. There are those who want a ground-breaking upgrade that maintains the traditional Red/Blue approach to Pokemon games, and those who just want Breath of the Wild: Pokemon. I'm in the latter camp and this is about the most discouraging trailer I've ever seen for a Pokemon game, which is really saying something.
Live action battle sounds awesome...if you can play as the Pokemon and approach it somewhat like a traditional combat game. Exploration is amazing...except Arceus was pretty bland and empty.
How does such an insanely wealthy franchise manage to put out garbage so consistently?
Here is the Pokemon game I want:
-A gorgeous map with deep, meaningful exploration. The map of botw with the secrets and gear of Elden Ring.
-A story I can really get invested in. Something serious and dramatic. Something I care about.
-Characters I care about.
-Explore as a human, fight as a Pokemon.
-Deeper systems. Explore for resources. Get gear for your Pokemon, allot limited points to different skills, etc.
Just take 5-6 years and cook up the ultimate Pokemon game guys. You can keep churning out whatever this is annually in the meantime.
I can't fathom the amount of money they could make if they captured people like me - people who are nostalgic for Pokemon but aren't buying the games because they suck.
Oh, and they could microtransaction the hell out of this hypothetical game if they added a multiplayer, even if it was just cosmetics. Shit, make a Pokemon battle royal for all I care.
It’s fine to think that way about the trailer, but I’m not sure what the point is in pretending it’s “objective” when everything you said is subjective.
An Elden ring game where you play as the Pokemon could not be further from what I’d want from the series.
I do appreciate your point! But I genuinely think the game looks objectively bad in terms of jank, graphics, stepping backward from the upgrades made in prior releases, etc.
It's hard to ever say any art is objectively bad, which is probably fair. It's also true that I haven't played the actual game. But this trailer is just screaming "worse player experience in terms of every measure we can make from this preview."
Also, I don't want Elden Ring Pokemon. Perhaps I should have worded it more clearly. I just want an open-world Pokemon packed with meaningful secrets and upgrades to drive exploration - like Elden Ring.
Apologies if my initial post came off as a raging rant. I just want so much more for this franchise. They have everything they need for a culture-changing game...except the game.
When a pokemon game releases, it usually is a top 10 game of the year, sometimes top 5, they dont have much incentive to tap into this "hidden market" of gamers. They are selling as much as Madden.
I'm someone who loves Arceus for its innovation, but I don't see them going out of their way to make a "perfect game" for the long time fans if the usual direction prints stupid amounts of money. From a business perspective, there isn't much value. These games are just a funnel for merch which makes them already "unfathomable" amounts of money.
I can't even say the new "Pokemon Champions" app/game is a step to cater to fans because I know in reality it's likely just their way of moving in to finally shut down Pokemon Showdown.
The setting is definitely a subjective aspect rather than objectjve. At least the city looks less empty than Legends: Arceus and SV though, just by virtue of being set in a city. Hopefully that means players can enter more than a handful of buildings. I can fully agree exploration has been lacking in the last several titles, the overworlds have been particularly empty.
I'm hoping that by focusing on a single city rather than trying to flesh out a bunch of areas, they'll be able to add more exploration rewards. And it will be refreshing to have a game set inside a city instead of a region full of empty, undeveloped space. You know, as long as we can enter the buildings.
I feel like they use Legends to experiment with the core gameplay without having to risk messing with the core games. The trailer doesn't give me enough to say whether it's a step back or forward from Arceus. I remember the initial trailer for Arceus made me feel pretty wary due to some obvious performance issues, but the final game exceeded my expectations. Just... Wish they'd carried some of those changes into SV. Exploration in Arceus definitely felt more fun when I could sneak up and throw Poke Balls without having to even battle Pokémon.
If I remember correctly, SV was developed alongside PLA, so it's actually the next main-line game that we should be looking at to see how much of PLA is brought into the main-series proper. I agree that PLA was super refreshing to me, even despite all of its jankiness, and I hope the main-series takes a lot of inspiration from it.
I haven't played any of these new games at all but judging from this trailer it sure looks awful. I play Pokemon Go once in a while and it's a pretty neat game, one's expectations are not high since it's a mobile game. Other than that I haven't played a Pokemon game since the Gameboy colour.
I think you and I are part of a pretty large silent majority audience that sees zero appeal of these newer Pokemon games. Basically nothing about it catches my interest. If I saw this video without context, I would guess that it was a game released in 2005. Graphics are not the top priority for what makes a game good, but when it looks outright ugly and so outdated? Can't say I understand why you'd want to play something that looks so unpleasant especially when it's a new release from an AAA(?) developer and it probably won't be cheap. To be fair this opinion also extends to the Switch as a whole. The hardware is so bad! But they have the big name exclusives so I guess people settle.
I guess this company will print money no matter what they release. 100% with you - they should take their time to release a truly good game with true depth that would capture more than their built-in audience.
I don't know for sure if I'm 100% on board with everything else you said, but responding to this in particular, as someone who has been pretty much an outsider to the series since sun/moon as my last (and already very disappointing) Pokemon game, but realistically Diamond/Pearl and HG/SS before that, as I skipped black/white and X/Y, I think it's so obvious looking at the Switch era of Pokemon that Game Freak has to go. I get that they're a major part of the trio that forms The Pokemon Company and likely can't actually be removed as long as they've got their own will to be there, but I genuinely believe there will never be a really good Pokemon video game again until it is made by somebody other than Game Freak.
That's how doomium I am on this franchise. It's genuinely sad.
Looks pretty good actually, you can definitely see Gamefreak getting more comfortable with 3D. Seems to be expanding on what the first Legends game brought to the table, which isn't a bad thing.
Arceus is one of my favorite games I've ever played. This seems... Aight so far? I'm kinda off on the whole wild zones thing because I found the main draw of Arceus to be its environment, exploration, and the seamless way it flowed from catching to fucking up and having a Pokémon attack you or start a fight. Having some stilted areas of the city be wild seems to betray that. At the same time, a friend pointed out all the exploration may turn into rooftop crawling and whatnot, which would be cool. Battle system seems neat, I'm all for it being a testing ground for new stuff.
Who knows, this isn't much and we didn't even get any new Megas or Formes... Arceus was a technical mess and hit some beautiful stride where it didn't matter. I'm thinking this won't hit quite the same, but I love Legends because it felt fresh. Maybe that's a good thing! We'll see.
EDIT: Also it's hard for them to mess up the story, X/Y left so much room on the table from doing nothing with AZ and Zygarde. Hope they take full free reign with it; I loved Arceus and Area Zero, and I know there's a lot they can do with the series.
Can't wait to choose between two Gen 2 starters and a Gen 5 starter. Kinda...weird...
It's extra weird to me because they chose the Hisuian starters due to themes linked to Japanese culture. (For those unaware, Typhlosion's Japanese name is Bakphoon and a play on bakufu, officials for the shogun.) These three have no connection to French culture though.
The most fitting would be Snivy and Piplup, since Serperior is based on French nobility and Empoleon is literally named after Napoleon. I figured they might skip Piplup since we just had two games based on Gen 4, but Snivy seemed obvious to me.
I thought that was weird too. They did my boy Cyndaquil dirty.
I genuinely would like to hear the reasoning behind those choices, because it makes no sense, lol.
Cyndaquil was a starter in Legends Arceus and got Hisuian Typhlosion, so that's likely why it's not there.
The other two Johto starters showing up here against Tepig is because, uhhhh,
uhhhhhhhhhhh
I think it's to get the mons in the switch to get to pokemon home basically, but that's basically the only reason?
One thought that's stuck in my head are the wild areas. It's pretty neat to see they're in the city proper instead of parks. The trailer showed a cafe right inside the gate, but obviously no people there. The street also isn't notably overgrown or run down.
I'm curious whether those areas still have active businesses, or if something caused them to shut down. In the real world I can't see people abandoning prime real estate to nature like that, so there's some story potential there. It'd be cool to explore an abandoned building and find wild Pokemon hanging out there. (And also, you know, enter buildings)
I can't imagine why they wouldn't put some dungeons in buildings in a series with an absurd amount of building dungeons (seriously, think about it lol), or without dungeons at all after the big impressive climax that people seemed to really like in their last big game was a giant dungeon. But, y'know, Game Freak... I was kinda pissed S/V had practically no dungeons outside of Area Zero to explore - the only one was the big Rock Tunnel kinda thing outside the Psychic gym leader's town. Which you could literally scale up the wall and ignore. (And the one in the middle with the Garchomp and Lucario, I guess? But you could look right into there from the outside...)
Scarlet/Violet had basically zero interiors. Even the Pokemon Centers were outdoor kiosks, and the gyms were empty besides the lobby/desk despite the buildings being massive. It's pretty clear they had to cut interiors for the deadline, especially since there's that one interior from Zapapico found in the files. Without buildings we could enter, SV felt a lot more lifeless to me.
I remember one of my oddly specific desires from Legends: Arceus was to have that gameplay but with more developed towns with actual buildings than just Jubilife Village. Which made SV feel even emptier. So while logically a game in a city should have multiple buildings you can enter, I apparently have developed a bit of a grudge and mild trust issues over this very specific aspect.
My prediction is that Quasartico is buying back parts of the city as a part of the redevelopment plan. It'd be cool if the Wild Zones would gradually get more and more wild over the course of the game - maybe even something you upgrade yourself?