42 votes

I teach a student with Reactive Attachment Disorder and I need help

Special Ed. Teacher here.

This year I've been assigned a tough caseload. But my most challenging student is easily the student with Reactive Attachment Disorder and possibly autism. I'll call him Jake.

Edit: He's in middle school, btw.

To protect his privacy and my own, I can't give many specifics. This student is chronically online and I wouldn't put it past him to Google situations he's caused in my class.

Some vague descriptions of the things he's done this year:

-Repeatedly jokes about pedophilia and teachers who have been arrested for it. It makes me uncomfortable that he does this, obviously. The only saving grace here is that he has thrown it around so many times, including calling multiple teachers pedophiles last year, that everyone knows he is just being rude and it's not a serious accusation. Thoroughly documented and I'm not really concerned about actually being accused. Fyi, I have informed his adoptive parents and they have informed his counselor. They are taking it seriously and have started investigating whether or not this is just shocking humor or a more serious part of the Jake's history before adoption.

-Waits for the perfect time to drop rude or shocking comments to inflict maximum damage. When he wants to say something awful to me or in general, he will hold off until he has an audience and the room is relatively quiet.

-Constantly mocks and shit talks certain students. We have dealt with it. He isn't just getting away with it. But even after consequences, separation from the students, and punishments at home, he doesn't stop. He's hung up on hating a couple of kids in particular but will generally be rude to whoever if he wants to. One of these kids is a scrappy kid from a rough school and I could totally see it ending in punches if we don't manage this.

-Absolutely refuses to share any serious thoughts. Even when asked what kind of support he needs, what kind of rewards would motivate him, or what's bothering him, he just gives ridiculous answers in a high-pitched voice or walks away. This kid wants no part in coming up with solutions and won't even engage in a conversation about his behavior or even the behavior of others.

-Speaking of his high pitched voice, this is the voice he always uses to say rude things. He has his normal speaking voice and then he uses this higher pitched voice when he says things that are rude or shocking. Like he has two different brains and one wants to be mean.

-Last year, he kept a list of times he felt students and teachers had broken the code of conduct.

-absolutely hates special Ed. Hates me for being a special ed. teacher. Reminds the other kids in my class that they're "special" constantly.

For the record, all of these things have been addressed many times. The school has been supportive, the parents have been supportive, and everyone knows that this behavior, if continued for much longer, will likely result in a change of programming for this student. He would be placed in a more restrictive setting.

This is kind of my last ditch effort to see if anyone has ideas, because this student is on the verge of leaving my classroom. If there is anything I can do to make it work with this kid, I would do it immediately. He's smart, witty, and unfortunately very funny in a South Park kind of a way. But he's raising hell every day and he's the first student I've had where it feels like I can't connect with him at all. And not for lack of trying.

34 comments

  1. [4]
    kfwyre
    (edited )
    Link
    Teacher here. I feel your pain. You are in a tough situation. The zoomed out perspective is that his current placement might not be the right one. He very well might need a therapeutic setting or...
    • Exemplary

    Teacher here. I feel your pain. You are in a tough situation.

    The zoomed out perspective is that his current placement might not be the right one. He very well might need a therapeutic setting or a behavior program, as you mentioned. If you feel that’s the right call, you don’t have to wait it out. You can call an IEP meeting with his team to discuss a change of placement whenever you feel it’s necessary.

    Now, internal politics might play a role here. I’m not sure what your district’s situation looks like, but a lot of times, if there isn’t an available in-district solution, then the district is looking at a very large bill for out-of-district services. As such you might get pushback for such a suggestion and be encouraged to keep him in his current setting. If you feel there’s a path to success for him, that’s not necessarily a bad idea, but if there isn’t, a pressure to keep him in that setting is effectively asking him, his peers, and his teachers to subsidize the cost of what he actually needs, which isn’t fair to anyone in that situation.

    If this ends up being the case, documentation and internal communication are going to be key here. Repeatedly raise issues professionally and in writing with your superiors. As much as a district doesn't want to pay for an expensive placement, they definitely don't want to be in a place where they willfully denied a child's educational needs. If you don't raise the issue, from the perspective of your superiors, you'll be seen to be "handling" it just fine (even if it's eating away at you personally).

    Zooming in on the child's present needs, however, whether he's on your caseload for a short time or for the rest of the year, there are a few things you can try.

    The hardest is going to be depersonalizing his behavior. It's not about you specifically. Students like him are often great at making it feel personal -- it's one of the ways they know how to control a situation and try to get under your skin. With students like him, I take what I mentally call my "warm robot" approach, which is that I put forth a kind and caring exterior, but I pretty much remain emotionally neutral and flat in all of our interactions. I will often politely and impartially state feelings rather than show them (e.g. "I was frustrated when you insulted that other student..."). This is hard to do, but it can help with keeping yourself grounded. It runs counter to a lot of what we want to do as teachers, in that we want to build solid meaningful relationships with students, but with a student with his profile, it's clear you're relating more with a constellation of symptoms rather than a specific individual who's able to make and maintain relationships.

    I also do a lot of telegraphing my behaviors for students like this. It's especially useful with regards to consequences (e.g. "If you talk to the person next to you again, I will have to move your seat"), but it doesn't always have to be used in a negative way. "I want to see if you can complete the first problem on your own. I'm going to check back in in two minutes to see how you're doing and if you need help" works too. The key is regularly following through with whatever you commit to, which helps establish regularity and structure.

    This can also be used in response to attention-seeking behaviors as a way of delaying response. For example, if he calls out, rather than addressing it in the moment, you can say something like "I'm going to finish this part of the lesson and then address what you said." For some students this can delay further behaviors, but for others the lack of a response can trigger more. You can balance that with consequences depending on the situation.

    Depending on his level of attention-seeking, complete non-responses might be an option as well. I had a student a few years ago to whom I literally would say "I'm not going to respond to you right now -- I will check back with you in five minutes" and then I would genuinely ignore him and focus on other students. At the beginning this was frustrating to him, but he eventually learned that I genuinely meant it when I said I was going to ignore him. Softly directing other students to be similarly non-responsive can help as well if he's trying to get a rise out of peers. A "we're not going to respond to that" after a call-out can help establish class-wide expectations for everybody. Of course, they won't always follow that, especially initially, but regularly and firmly clamping down on secondary behaviors that result from his disruptions can help inhibit him as well (in addition to maintaining the overall classroom environment).

    Two more thoughts on things that might work: small responsibilities and small rewards.

    Maybe you need the date on your board changed? Maybe you need the homework for the day written down? Try asking the student to do this -- preferably outside of class, or before class starts. It's a way of creating "leadership" and positive peer-interdependence without putting the student in an overt leadership role. You can let them know how many students look at the date/homework on your board and how he's helping out the entire class, or even multiple classes. You can also have him do things like hole-punch papers or organize materials. It doesn't have to be big (and shouldn't, because he might choose not to do it or sabotage it), but repeated small responsibilities can build trust with an individual.

    With regards to small rewards, something I used to do was stamp students' work whenever they did a good job. I got some cheap stamps from the dollar spot at Target, often themed for whatever holiday was nearby, and when I went around the room and saw someone doing good work, I would simply reach over and stamp their page, letting them know they did an awesome job. I'd stamp question #3 if they rocked that one and showed all their work. Or if they had a great paragraph or insight in their writing, I'd put the stamp next to it. You could do something similar with stickers.

    Verbal praise is good, but it's intangible. Having a verifiable symbol of the praise is significant for a child's brain. This is potentially something he'll respond to, because you're in effect "structuring" praise. It's also valuable because it's in the moment, unlike, say, grades, which have a huge delay between when the student completes an assignment versus when they get the feedback. That immediacy is huge for kids. I would literally stamp while they were working on their work in class, instead of doing it afterwards. It means so much more when it happens in the moment.

    Another concept is what I call "negative space". Whenever I have a student who's has significant behaviors and I cannot find even a single thing to praise or support in them, I have to force myself to look past the active behaviors into the "negative space" around the child. What aren't they doing? If he calls out all the time in class, but he went to his seat at the beginning of class without disruption, acknowledge that. The one time he says a non-nasty comment to a peer? Let him know you noticed that. Is he walking in the hallways without bothering people? Praise that. The idea is to dig and find whatever it is you can that's positive or praiseworthy as a way of letting him know you're clued in to the good things he can do and, hopefully, reinforce those as a baseline. Don't do this facetiously or passive-aggressively -- it's easy for something like this to come across as a little patronizing -- but doing it earnestly can pay dividends.

    Now, I'm going to pivot away from the individual student for a second, because there are other stakeholders here.

    There are also the kids who share a classroom with this student. If his behaviors are significantly disrupting their learning, and if that does not resolve over time, then this is likely not the right placement for him. That can sound harsh and can feel like the message is “you don’t belong here”, but the truth is that you’re doing the right thing for that child and advocating for their needs in hopes of getting them the level of support they require. One thing I also keep in mind is that every other student in that classroom has an equal right to an education that he has, and his needs do not supersede their rights. That helps make the decision “easier” in my mind.

    There are also the teachers, namely you, who have to deal with this student. One thing I remind myself is that I am merely one single adult who works with a given student out of a handful within each year and dozens over the course of their educational career. Set your expectations accordingly. It can feel like you're expected to be THE magic wand that "fixes" the child, but children don't work that way. They require ongoing care and support from a lot of different people, and you are but one limited part of that. You have limited energy, limited resources, limited patience. You are also asked to distribute those among all of your students, not just him. If this child is running through all of those for you, set some boundaries for yourself so that you can maintain a healthy perspective and distance. Allocate a certain amount for him and then stick to it.

    Furthermore, kids like him take time. It's very possible that, in two or three months, your relationship with him will be very different. Two or three months is quite a short amount of time, but, developmentally, and from a child's perspective, it's HUGE. Try to take yourself out of the frustrations of the immediate moment and envision something more positive for him and you down the road. When I find myself frustrated and seemingly spinning my wheels with no results, I easily start to catastrophize and assume the worst outcome. A technique I use to get myself out of that thinking is to ask "what if my hard work actually is worth it in the end?" or "what if this really does help the kid?" It's a way of reframing my thinking to something more positive. I don't use it to override boundaries (that is, I don't use it as an excuse to work harder than I should or allocate more of my personal resources to the child than I should), but I use it to help myself keep perspective.

    Now, I've said a lot here, but the last thing I want you to think is that this is authoritative. I'm an outsider looking in with limited knowledge: you are the expert on the child and your own situation. Use your professional judgment and skills as best as you can. If something I've said is irrelevant to your situation or doesn't work with your style, then ignore it! I'm not trying to be prescriptive in the slightest. Instead, I hope my comment comes across as supportive. I know how hard teaching can be, and I particularly know how hard difficult students can be. I have one myself this year who is sapping my patience as well.

    I hope this comment comes across not as a to-do list or a redirect, but as a supportive hug and an acknowledgement of the challenge and difficulty of the job that you do on a daily basis. I'm right there with you. Thank you for doing what you do. Special education teachers are heroes.

    59 votes
    1. [2]
      Hobofarmer
      Link Parent
      As another teacher: Bravo. You voiced so many of the little things that might go unsaid simply because we are human and focus or fixate on one issue; you analyzed everything and gave concrete,...

      As another teacher: Bravo. You voiced so many of the little things that might go unsaid simply because we are human and focus or fixate on one issue; you analyzed everything and gave concrete, actionable suggestions.

      I wanted to give you more than just a vote, or an exemplary, so I hope this heartfelt thank you is enough! If only we had more in teaching like yourself.

      20 votes
      1. kfwyre
        Link Parent
        This means a lot to me, especially coming from another teacher. Thank you.

        This means a lot to me, especially coming from another teacher. Thank you.

        5 votes
    2. Baeocystin
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Not the OP, but I just wanted to say thank you for such an exemplary and detailed reply. I can tell you are truly passionate about this, and that is wonderful. Speaking now from only my personal...

      Not the OP, but I just wanted to say thank you for such an exemplary and detailed reply. I can tell you are truly passionate about this, and that is wonderful.

      There are also the kids who share a classroom with this student. If his behaviors are significantly disrupting their learning, and if that does not resolve over time, then this is likely not the right placement for him. That can sound harsh and can feel like the message is “you don’t belong here”, but the truth is that you’re doing the right thing for that child and advocating for their needs in hopes of getting them the level of support they require. One thing I also keep in mind is that every other student in that classroom has an equal right to an education that he has, and his needs do not supersede their rights. That helps make the decision “easier” in my mind.

      Speaking now from only my personal perspective as someone who was on the receiving end of kids like this' behavior- What you wrote above is really, really, really important. I held resentment for a long time over the most actively hurtful, disruptive children being treated with kid gloves and oh they can't help it, while I and others like me who were trying our best got the short end of the stick, and much less understanding. The lesson I learned most clearly was that disruptive students got attention and care for their needs, and we got the dregs. It wasn't fair then, and it isn't fair now. I am 100% not saying this is happening here, and I want to be very clear that I am not casting shade; what teachers do is vitally important. I am only emphasizing that care and empathy must be extended to all, and if a student is too disruptive, then they need to be placed elsewhere, and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that, nor is it reflective on the teacher as a failure. If a teacher defends their class as a whole, that is a good thing.

      7 votes
  2. [13]
    sparksbet
    Link
    Unfortunately, I don't think I or almost anyone else on Tildes is really equipped to help you with this kid. It seems like these are problems that would be hard enough for a trained professional...

    Unfortunately, I don't think I or almost anyone else on Tildes is really equipped to help you with this kid. It seems like these are problems that would be hard enough for a trained professional to handle, much less us randos. Still, I really empathize with your struggles here and hope you can find a way to help this kid. In the end it's not up to just you, but from your description, it sounds like you're doing everything you can think of to remedy the situation. Not giving up on a kid like this is already more than most people would do, tbqh.

    One thing that struck me from your post was how at the end you said he was smart and witty. Does he know that you see anything positive in him like that? His disorder is characterized by doing anything for attention, and obviously you don't want to reward his bad behavior by giving it to him. But does he know that people like you see something worthwhile in him? He sounds like he's very experienced with authority figures and "the system" being against him due to his disruptive behavior, and I wonder if that's part of why he refuses to talk about his behavior and is so hostile to the idea of being in Special Ed.

    21 votes
    1. [12]
      RAD_Teacher
      Link Parent
      Thanks so much for the response. I'm surprised! I worried that my response was too vague since I didn't feel comfortable giving specifics. But even still, you managed to precisely nail this kid's...

      Thanks so much for the response.

      I'm surprised! I worried that my response was too vague since I didn't feel comfortable giving specifics. But even still, you managed to precisely nail this kid's personality and what I assume to be his motivations.

      I have told him that I find him funny and intelligent. Unfortunately, I only get the chance to do this when we are having meetings about his bad behavior. I mostly try to give him space otherwise because he is so negative toward me and doesn't want to interact with me.

      I'll give one specific example. His mom told me about a video game he likes, which is also a game I enjoy. I tried to chat with him about it one time and he looked at me with total confusion on his face. He said, "Okay....? I'm not sure why you're talking to me about this. I don't play video games."

      Later that day, he turns in an assignment that mentions his favorite video game - yep, the one I mentioned.

      Such a huge middle finger to me lol.

      You're probably right that there is a limit on what I can do here. Just figured maybe someone has experience with RAD or something similar, either as a parent or teacher. I may make more attempts to let him know that I see good qualities in him, because I know he isn't getting much positive feedback from people.

      13 votes
      1. [2]
        GenuinelyCrooked
        Link Parent
        You mentioned hoping to get responses from parents and teachers, but have you gone looking for resources made by people with Reactive Attachment Disorder? It sounds like that's the perspective...

        You mentioned hoping to get responses from parents and teachers, but have you gone looking for resources made by people with Reactive Attachment Disorder? It sounds like that's the perspective that's missing here, and Jake seems loath to offer it. I'm not sure if resources like that exist, or if you would have access to them, it's just a thought.

        15 votes
        1. RAD_Teacher
          Link Parent
          You're absolutely right. I would 100% appreciate feedback from people who have RAD personally.

          You're absolutely right. I would 100% appreciate feedback from people who have RAD personally.

          7 votes
      2. [9]
        updawg
        Link Parent
        Please don't take this in any way as a criticism of you. You seem to be trying your hardest to help. What I am getting from this seems to be equivalent to trying to teach a student with an...

        Please don't take this in any way as a criticism of you. You seem to be trying your hardest to help.

        What I am getting from this seems to be equivalent to trying to teach a student with an intellectual disability like any other student and then getting mad at them for not learning like they should. If you think this kid is smart, why is he in the same class as the kids who are slower? I suspect he feels that being put in that class is just another betrayal.

        Is there a reason he's in your class or is it just a way for the school to hide him away from the "normal" kids?

        Rather than just telling him he's intelligent, could you demonstrate that? Give him jobs to do to act as something of a teacher's aide? Demonstrate that you are not going away no matter what he does. He is currently physically incapable of trusting people.

        Honestly, I would think that you shouldn't take anything he says personally in any way. Telling you he doesn't play video games was not a middle finger. It was him coping with the scary experience of an authority figure trying to get close to him.

        I am not an expert in any way on RAD, but from what I understand, it will ultimately be on his adoptive parents to heal him so that he can grow into a functional adult. You're just there to demonstrate that people can be good and won't abandon him.

        7 votes
        1. [3]
          Hobofarmer
          Link Parent
          That last paragraph/thought is spot on, but I feel like you're hand waving a lot of this. It's incredibly demoralizing to face students like this day after day, when your whole being is set upon...

          That last paragraph/thought is spot on, but I feel like you're hand waving a lot of this. It's incredibly demoralizing to face students like this day after day, when your whole being is set upon helping and guiding them. The toughest kids I ever taught were like this - dismissive, rude, and hostile. It's really really hard to look past these comments and ignore them and while I don't think you're wrong to encourage OP to try and brush it off, it comes across as unsympathetic at best and patronizing at worst.

          14 votes
          1. [2]
            updawg
            Link Parent
            You're right, but it's meant more to be a criticism of the system than OP as a teacher. Unfortunately, we don't always have the resources to handle every individual edge case, especially in...

            You're right, but it's meant more to be a criticism of the system than OP as a teacher. Unfortunately, we don't always have the resources to handle every individual edge case, especially in (special) education. It sounds like this student needs more focused care that just does not exist without paying large amounts of money.

            5 votes
            1. Hobofarmer
              Link Parent
              It is a hard system that struggles to incorporate those who are not fitting the norm. In America, it's been a long and hard fight to get and keep supports for students like Jake, who would have...

              It is a hard system that struggles to incorporate those who are not fitting the norm. In America, it's been a long and hard fight to get and keep supports for students like Jake, who would have been written off as unreachable even a few decades ago. Most people take for granted all the programs we have in place - IEP's, Special Ed, therapies and supports for various learning disorders, and more - without realizing the vast majority of them weren't even around 50 years ago.

              I'm hopeful Jake is able to succeed with the tools at hand, but agree it will likely take a lot more.

              4 votes
        2. RAD_Teacher
          Link Parent
          None of my students are low really. Most have mild to moderate disabilities like dyslexia, autism, etc. and are in a regular classroom setting. The only difference is that there are two teachers...

          None of my students are low really. Most have mild to moderate disabilities like dyslexia, autism, etc. and are in a regular classroom setting. The only difference is that there are two teachers and the class is half special Ed and half general Ed.

          The gen Ed teacher and special Ed teacher work together to make the class accessible to all students. Everyone learns together and works together. It's really cool when it works well.

          As for this student, I think we have to separate motivation and outcome. His motivation for his behavior might be all of the things you mentioned, but the outcome is that he treats people like shit and can be very cruel.

          I have a ton of empathy for the kid. You don't get RAD by having an awesome childhood full of love. And I want to understand his motivations so that I can help him and make him a part of our classroom.

          However, my frustration comes from the impact that this has on his peers. He really can be quite mean and cunning. He is good at hurting other people's feelings, annoying them, and removing their ability to learn. As for how it impacts me personally, I think you're right that part of this involves me taking a step back and reminding myself that it shouldn't bother me. But man, he can really aim for the jugular and get a direct hit when he wants to. And I'm spending so much of my time on his behaviors (documenting, follow up, etc.) that it's stealing my time at home and my time that should be divided more evenly with my other students.

          Anyway, I do take your point and I appreciate the reminder. It's needed from time to time.

          12 votes
        3. [4]
          GenuinelyCrooked
          Link Parent
          When I was in school, "special education" was a very wide net and did not just include kids with learning disabilities. It included kids with physical disabilities (hearing difficulties, mobility...

          When I was in school, "special education" was a very wide net and did not just include kids with learning disabilities. It included kids with physical disabilities (hearing difficulties, mobility issues) kids with emotional regulation issues, and even the "gifted program" was considered special education. Not all necessarily in the same class, but all with "special education" teachers. It's possible this kid is not in class with the slower kids.

          4 votes
          1. [2]
            Hobofarmer
            Link Parent
            It is still this way. Each child will have an IEP in place that determines what interventions and assistance they may need, and it's tailored to their situation - never a "one size fits all" approach.

            It is still this way. Each child will have an IEP in place that determines what interventions and assistance they may need, and it's tailored to their situation - never a "one size fits all" approach.

            4 votes
            1. updawg
              Link Parent
              It determines what they need, but not necessarily what they actually get. If the IEP is too intensive, they may not get what they specifically need.

              It determines what they need, but not necessarily what they actually get. If the IEP is too intensive, they may not get what they specifically need.

              6 votes
          2. updawg
            Link Parent
            You're right; I thought OP said he made sure the other students knew they were "slow" but OP said "special."

            You're right; I thought OP said he made sure the other students knew they were "slow" but OP said "special."

            2 votes
  3. [3]
    DefinitelyNotAFae
    Link
    I haven't done RAD work but have a friend who did in home therapy for foster/adopted kids and it was pretty much all RAD work. I'll ask her if she has any recommendations, but everything I know...

    I haven't done RAD work but have a friend who did in home therapy for foster/adopted kids and it was pretty much all RAD work. I'll ask her if she has any recommendations, but everything I know about the diagnosis says that this behavior is absolutely indicative of the disorder. Your persistence does matter, it's just your classroom may not be the right environment for him right now. But I'll see if I can get any suggestions or resources for you.

    But if you cannot connect with him that doesn't mean you've failed. Like I said, this may just not be the right environment for him. And he may have had more stability because you've tried so hard.

    15 votes
    1. [2]
      RAD_Teacher
      Link Parent
      Please let me know if they have any advice! Thank you so much.

      Please let me know if they have any advice! Thank you so much.

      6 votes
      1. DefinitelyNotAFae
        Link Parent
        Specifically, not for this individual (for all those therapist reasons) but recommended reading: The Whole Brain Child Beyond Behaviors And reading on Developmental Trauma Disorder more generally...

        Specifically, not for this individual (for all those therapist reasons) but recommended reading:
        The Whole Brain Child
        Beyond Behaviors
        And reading on Developmental Trauma Disorder more generally

        She recommended avoiding Ross Greene's work.

        And she seconded the "you're not a failure" thing. And recommended avoiding the use of "manipulation" or "attention" which I didn't think you used so good job there.

        She does do non-therapist consultation for $ but it's cashy and she acknowledges y'all get not nearly enough training on regulation.

        6 votes
  4. [6]
    Hobofarmer
    (edited )
    Link
    I don't have much to add except that I sympathize with you entirely. I don't teach Special Ed, but I teach prek and am usually the first contact with a more organized/formal setting many kids who...

    I don't have much to add except that I sympathize with you entirely. I don't teach Special Ed, but I teach prek and am usually the first contact with a more organized/formal setting many kids who eventually get a diagnosis or go on to Special Ed. This does sound incredibly difficult, and I assume the child in question is somewhat older (preteen?) so well out of my area of expertise.

    It's early in the morning and I don't have time to research Reactive Attachment Disorder, but I'm putting it on my to do list. I assume you've read other cases? Is there a way to research similar cases in the past? Are there other professionals outside of your district you might be able to call on for support?

    What would a more restricted setting mean for this individual?

    Edit: a quick read up of what RAD is shows these behaviors are well aligned with the indicators of the disorder. You mentioned a counselor - I assume they're in various therapies aimed at fostering better interpersonal relationships? My brief reading of the disorder shows they have a strong feeling of "the world is against me anyways so I might as well strike first". As @sparksbet brings up, maybe reinforcing positive attributes can be a great first step?

    8 votes
    1. [5]
      RAD_Teacher
      Link Parent
      I'll try. I should focus more on that. I guess I end up feeling betrayed when I do this, which has resulted in me doing it less. I'll compliment him and send a nice message home when he...

      I'll try. I should focus more on that.

      I guess I end up feeling betrayed when I do this, which has resulted in me doing it less. I'll compliment him and send a nice message home when he occasionally has an okay day at school. Hasn't helped yet.

      Also, when I've tried to be kind to him, he generally just mocks me.

      3 votes
      1. [4]
        updawg
        Link Parent
        He is more or less incapable of not mocking you. He needs to see that you still won't abandon or abuse him.

        He is more or less incapable of not mocking you. He needs to see that you still won't abandon or abuse him.

        6 votes
        1. [3]
          Hobofarmer
          Link Parent
          Yes. It's hard to power through that at times though, I understand RAD_Teacher's difficulty in continuing.

          Yes. It's hard to power through that at times though, I understand RAD_Teacher's difficulty in continuing.

          6 votes
          1. [2]
            RAD_Teacher
            Link Parent
            I bought a treat for the class and he grabbed a large amount and threw it out. This kind of stuff wears on you eventually no matter how thick your skin is.

            I bought a treat for the class and he grabbed a large amount and threw it out.

            This kind of stuff wears on you eventually no matter how thick your skin is.

            6 votes
            1. Hobofarmer
              Link Parent
              I'm sorry, that's incredibly frustrating, and certainly emphasizes the difficulty of this.

              I'm sorry, that's incredibly frustrating, and certainly emphasizes the difficulty of this.

              1 vote
  5. honzabe
    Link
    I do not understand teaching, but what you describe sounds like a job with a high risk of burnout. Take precautions, take care of yourself. I have no idea how this works in the US school system,...

    I do not understand teaching, but what you describe sounds like a job with a high risk of burnout. Take precautions, take care of yourself.

    I have no idea how this works in the US school system, but I used to work in a different field with a high risk of burnout and we had some systems in place to prevent that - training, psychological support, "unloading" sessions, etc.
    One thing was especially helpful - we had designated "backup" colleagues, and when there was some conflict where you would feel that you were just about to lose it and start screaming, you would go to your backup and switch places with them, no questions asked (we had a signal). You would start doing what they were doing and they would deal with the troublemaker calm and collected. I am not sure if something like this is possible in a school setting, but maybe you could have at least one supporting colleague who would be able to unload a bit of that burden when it seems too much for you.
    I worked in that institution many years ago - maybe they have come up with even better strategies since then.

    I imagine your job must be incredibly hard. If I am completely off the mark, I am sorry.

    7 votes
  6. Notcoffeetable
    Link
    I can't contribute any practical experience but perhaps some motivation. My ex was a social worker and worked in an in-patient school/home for kids like this. I've heard and seen many similar...

    I can't contribute any practical experience but perhaps some motivation.

    My ex was a social worker and worked in an in-patient school/home for kids like this. I've heard and seen many similar stories. It is such hard work and I commend you for putting your energy towards it. It takes its toll and I hope if you ever need to take time away you can find a way to do it.

    My best friend fostered and eventually adopted a kid much like your student. It's been a long journey, but after 10(?) years he is in a much better place. The trauma that got the kid there is awful but having a loving family has helped him dramatically. All that is to say that success if possible, it's on the foster/adoptive parents, but what you're doing is helping.

    5 votes
  7. [3]
    papasquat
    Link
    I have next to zero experience with either kids or dealing with people with behavioral disorders, but I wanted to chime in to say based on what everyone who does deal with this stuff on a regular...

    I have next to zero experience with either kids or dealing with people with behavioral disorders, but I wanted to chime in to say based on what everyone who does deal with this stuff on a regular basis has said, kudos to you guys.

    I pride myself on having good, certainly better than average control of my emotions. Despite being a manager for decades, I've never actually yelled at anyone, but these interactions, as you've described them, would likely make me lose it. I guess I might not be great at making special considerations for people that have lower self control of their emotions? (ie; kids, or people with behavioral issues?)
    Kind of worrying because I do want to have kids of my own pretty soon.

    Anyone have any advice there? Is it a skill you somehow developed, or is patience and abnormally high emotional regulation just a prerequisite for being a teacher? Or am I just wrong, and maybe I don't have great control over my emotions, and is there something wrong with me?

    I obviously don't know because I've never been in that situation, but I can't imagine being falsely accused of pedophilia, being interrupted in the middle of speaking with a comment specifically designed to annoy me, and being openly mocked in front of an audience and not absolutely losing my shit and dressing the kid down in front of the class, even though I logically know it wouldn't be helpful in the long term. Is this a me problem?

    4 votes
    1. RAD_Teacher
      Link Parent
      You have more patience than you know. I don't think you should get into teaching. But your current level of introspection tells me you're an intelligent and empathetic human being. Everyone says...

      You have more patience than you know.

      I don't think you should get into teaching. But your current level of introspection tells me you're an intelligent and empathetic human being.

      Everyone says they would do this or that if a kid disrespected them. But 95% of people wouldn't if they were really there. Because you have a human being in front of you, you know at least some of their story, and they are, for all intents and purposes, a reflection of how they were raised.

      Kids don't have the control an adult has. They are just little bundles of emotion. When I see a kid acting terrible, I know for sure they have a fucked up home life or a fucked up history. Even in families that appear to have it together on the surface. I've never been wrong yet.

      Once in a very blue moon, I'm sure a true psychopath comes along. Good home, good family, mentally ill kid. But it's so rare that I've never seen it myself.

      Anyway, you also find the good. I have so many badass kids come through my room and I've been able to connect with every single one up until the one I mentioned in this post.

      If you do find yourself losing your shit on a child, especially your own, then maybe you'll want to do some self-examination. But give yourself some credit. If you wouldn't kick a homeless person, you wouldn't scream at a distressed child. I promise.

      8 votes
    2. DefinitelyNotAFae
      Link Parent
      You just... kinda can't do that with kids because your kids might have these behavioral issues on top of just being kids and being emotionally dysregulated. You can't make them behave better, and...

      You just... kinda can't do that with kids because your kids might have these behavioral issues on top of just being kids and being emotionally dysregulated. You can't make them behave better, and all yelling will do is make them afraid of and/or angry at you.

      The behavior and diagnosis described here are extreme and are most common in kids who've been through significant trauma, including adoptees and kids who've spent time in foster care. That doesn't mean that this sort of behavior can't happen in kids for other reasons or that your kids can't experience trauma leading to these responses. But essentially, it comes down to wanting to help them, and yelling at them just won't. (I know you're saying you haven't yelled, but it seemed like that was your concern.) No parent is perfect either. I'm not saying you'd never make mistakes, but you have to rebuild that parent/child relationship afterward.

      If you don't think you don't have control over your emotions, I'd definitely recommend trying therapy, parenting classes, and other similar supports before you start planning to have your own kids.

      (I'm trained as a therapist, and you don't necessarily ever not want to do those things. You just know you can't do those things.)

      7 votes
  8. [3]
    Minori
    (edited )
    Link
    I'm unfortunately familiar with attachment disorders. My advice is to see if you can't find what this kid is interested in besides getting a rise out of people. You mentioned Jake is chronically...

    I'm unfortunately familiar with attachment disorders. My advice is to see if you can't find what this kid is interested in besides getting a rise out of people.

    You mentioned Jake is chronically online. If you could figure out whether he follows any particular streamers or likes specific games, you may be able to get him to talk about things he enjoys and develop some positive rapport over a shared interest. You don't have to be personally interested, but you'll need to make genuinely interesting conversation or at least volunteer some topics that catch Jake's attention.

    The caveat is finding some school-appropriate topics could be challenging. As an example, I knew a kid that was super into WWE, but when WWE came up he'd often get physical. Even if he's into violent games like Doom or GTA, there are still parts you can probably safely talk about.

    Edit: This also assumes the kid wants to talk about topics he likes. That's a safe bet for most humans, but if he's not even conversational about his interests then he probably needs more resources than your school can provide.

    3 votes
    1. [2]
      RAD_Teacher
      Link Parent
      I mentioned this in a buried comment, but the time I tried to talk to him about a video game we both like, he mockingly told me he doesn't like video games and then submitted an assignment about...

      I mentioned this in a buried comment, but the time I tried to talk to him about a video game we both like, he mockingly told me he doesn't like video games and then submitted an assignment about how much he loves that video game I brought up.

      It's actually pretty funny, like most of what he does. But it wears on you.

      6 votes
      1. Minori
        Link Parent
        Yep, I hate to say it, but the advice I heard second hand from a mental health professional was "Some people are fucked." If you've tried everything then make your peace and move on. Don't let one...

        Yep, I hate to say it, but the advice I heard second hand from a mental health professional was "Some people are fucked." If you've tried everything then make your peace and move on. Don't let one kid burn through all your time and empathy. :)

        5 votes