I, for one, am wholeheartedly in favor of the use of semicolons in short messages, which is of course what they mean by social media; after all, what better way to prolong the reader's attention...
Lancaster’s linguists believe that the end of the semicolon, along with shrinking sentence lengths in novels, is a reflection of a society addicted to social media.
I, for one, am wholeheartedly in favor of the use of semicolons in short messages, which is of course what they mean by social media; after all, what better way to prolong the reader's attention to your 240 characters than a pause?
I think the semicolon suffers because there are no clear rules on when to exactly use it. Even German, which has very clearly defined rules on grammar, here for example the page only dedicated to...
I think the semicolon suffers because there are no clear rules on when to exactly use it. Even German, which has very clearly defined rules on grammar, here for example the page only dedicated to capitalization:
Before you ask, Duden is so precise that they put the spaces into the URL. They care, so paste the entire line. It's also in German, but I think you should get the gist from only the length.
Even in German, the semicolon usage is basically up to you. The rule is it's between the dot and the comma. If a dot is too strong, but a comma to weak, you use the semicolon. So it's fallen a bit out of fashion.
Semicolons are well defined in their use in English. The problem is that most people don’t understand grammar at the level you need to know how to use them. There are two cases to use semicolons....
Semicolons are well defined in their use in English. The problem is that most people don’t understand grammar at the level you need to know how to use them.
There are two cases to use semicolons. One is to separate lists with multiple grouped items (though this may actually be archaic now given how long it’s been since I have seen it). The other is to conjoin two related independent clauses. The problem is that few adults completely understand what an independent clause is. Furthermore, because semicolons are “optional” you can just default to using a period and always be right.
EDIT: In my original posting of this I flipped “independent” and “dependent” which is good reminder for me to be less judgmental and more forgiving, because I have a degree in this and somehow...
EDIT: In my original posting of this I flipped “independent” and “dependent” which is good reminder for me to be less judgmental and more forgiving, because I have a degree in this and somehow still fucked it up.
The problem is that few adults completely understand what an independent clause is.
I took a senior-level grammar and syntax class when I was in college. As a word geek, I was super excited for it, but after two or three classes it was clear something was very, very wrong. The prof couldn’t gain any purchase with the class, with nearly everyone seeming disinterested and uninvolved in his lecturing and questions.
When we came in for the next class, the prof, clearly in a pissed off mood, grabbed a dry erase marker and wrote “Because the dog ran away” on the board.
He pointed to the first student in the first row and cold called on him directly, asking “Is this an independent or dependent clause?”. The student paused and then sheepishly replied “Independent”. The prof pointed at the next student, who followed the lead of the first and also said “Independent”. He pointed at a third student, who also said it was a independent clause.
At that point the prof went from pissed off to defeated. He retreated to a desk in the corner and told us to read from our textbooks. Not only had three students failed to identify a basic dependent clause in a high level class on syntax, but two students also failed to realize that the reason he kept asking for an answer was because the first answer was wrong. Even if the other two students hadn’t known it was a dependent clause, they should have been able to figure out from his cold response and re-asking of the question that “Independent” was not the answer he was looking for.
The rest of the semester he just phoned it in, giving us readings and simple assignments to complete that he probably didn’t even look at. We didn’t touch complicated syntax in the slightest — how could we? The class wasn’t ready for it. If ever there was an audience that should have been able to properly identify clauses, it was that class, and even they couldn’t cut it.
I can absolutely empathise with that professor, but it sounds like a real shame that if he was going to throw out the syllabus anyway he didn't try starting that next lecture with "You guys...
I can absolutely empathise with that professor, but it sounds like a real shame that if he was going to throw out the syllabus anyway he didn't try starting that next lecture with "You guys clearly don't know shit, so let's start with the basics and see if we can get you up to speed". Obviously replanning a whole term would be hellish, and I wouldn't ask for that, but I feel like the class could've learned a lot just from an off the cuff intro, given how far behind they evidently were.
I don’t blame him. There were several prerequisites for the class that were supposed to cover the basics, so theoretically we all should have been well equipped for something more rigorous. Also,...
I don’t blame him. There were several prerequisites for the class that were supposed to cover the basics, so theoretically we all should have been well equipped for something more rigorous. Also, he wasn’t getting any buy-in from the students in the slightest. Almost everyone was checked out from day one and didn’t come around to him, despite his efforts for the first few classes.
Forgive my ignorance, but how is that not a dependent clause? Maybe it could stand alone as a pointed answer to a question in casual conversation but that doesn't seem like something a grammar...
“Because the dog ran away”
Forgive my ignorance, but how is that not a dependent clause? Maybe it could stand alone as a pointed answer to a question in casual conversation but that doesn't seem like something a grammar teacher would be espousing. Wouldn't it need to be "Because he was mistreated, the dog ran away" for it to be an independent clause?
Lol, egg on my face! I flipped dependent and independent in my retelling and proved @Akir’s point better than I was intending. I’ll edit it to be right as soon as I’m not out and about and have...
Lol, egg on my face! I flipped dependent and independent in my retelling and proved @Akir’s point better than I was intending. I’ll edit it to be right as soon as I’m not out and about and have time to fix my facepalmy error.
Nope! Just me shredding people for their sins all while I’m unintentionally committing them. 😬😫 The weird thing is that I definitely DO know the difference between independent and dependent...
Nope! Just me shredding people for their sins all while I’m unintentionally committing them. 😬😫
The weird thing is that I definitely DO know the difference between independent and dependent clauses, and I honestly have no idea what wires crossed in my brain to cause me to flip the two in my original post.
Between being told that I'm wrong about the lists thing by multiple people, and me missing this, I'm starting to think I may need to slow down and actually read what people are saying. 😅
Between being told that I'm wrong about the lists thing by multiple people, and me missing this, I'm starting to think I may need to slow down and actually read what people are saying. 😅
While it's a shame this scenario exists, I think the state of the students in the class is understandable. It's hard to explain why grammar is important, so many students will just turn off their...
While it's a shame this scenario exists, I think the state of the students in the class is understandable. It's hard to explain why grammar is important, so many students will just turn off their brains when it comes to really complex ideas like sentence clauses. And I wouldn't be surprised if some linguists didn't think that strict grammar at this level is even necessary. In any case, grammar is fungible as it often comes second to style.
Of course I'm not even going to get into the arguements about how primary schools aren't properly preparing its students since that's a whole other can of worms.
I do this all the time. I did it on tild.es just last month. (Technically this is probably an abuse of syntax, because my intra-item commas are delineating an interjection, not separating clauses,...
One is to separate lists with multiple grouped items (though this may actually be archaic now given how long it’s been since I have seen it).
I do this all the time. I did it on tild.es just last month. (Technically this is probably an abuse of syntax, because my intra-item commas are delineating an interjection, not separating clauses, but whatever, someone else can fight about that if they want.) The construct may be infrequently used, but I don't think it's archaic.
The spaces can be encoded as well to generate a link to a URL with spaces: https://www.duden.de/sprachwissen/rechtschreibregeln/Groß-%20und%20Kleinschreibung
For me, the semicolon is, or can be, more than just a pause. I sometimes use it when I present two thoughts, ideas, or clauses which, though different and distinct, relate to each other. The...
For me, the semicolon is, or can be, more than just a pause. I sometimes use it when I present two thoughts, ideas, or clauses which, though different and distinct, relate to each other. The semicolon, in such cases, acts as the fulcrum between the two, or the peak between two sides of a hill. It communicates a relationship, a synergy between the two things in a way that a period does not.
I strongly disagree with the article stating social media makes people pithy and to the point. Twitter might, but read any longer form article, Instagram post, or even tweet thread and you’ll...
I strongly disagree with the article stating social media makes people pithy and to the point. Twitter might, but read any longer form article, Instagram post, or even tweet thread and you’ll notice tons of thoughts punctuated by parenthetical phrases or em-dashes that just drop pointless tangential side-comments into the middle of a thought. Mercilessly self-edited is the opposite of what online posts are. They’re more often painfully navel gazing and meandering. It’s ideal for semicolon usage.
I’d say the decline probably has more to do with people just not being sure how to use them anymore and being too worried about being judged by internet grammarians to stick their necks out and be adventurous in their punctuation and word choice.
The author seems to be a little harsh on John Gray. Don't agree with a lot of what Gray has published, but he has also made some very interesting observations elsewhere. Fair points otherwise.
The author seems to be a little harsh on John Gray. Don't agree with a lot of what Gray has published, but he has also made some very interesting observations elsewhere. Fair points otherwise.
I, for one, am wholeheartedly in favor of the use of semicolons in short messages, which is of course what they mean by social media; after all, what better way to prolong the reader's attention to your 240 characters than a pause?
I think the semicolon suffers because there are no clear rules on when to exactly use it. Even German, which has very clearly defined rules on grammar, here for example the page only dedicated to capitalization:
https://www.duden.de/sprachwissen/rechtschreibregeln/Groß- und Kleinschreibung
Before you ask, Duden is so precise that they put the spaces into the URL. They care, so paste the entire line. It's also in German, but I think you should get the gist from only the length.
Even in German, the semicolon usage is basically up to you. The rule is it's between the dot and the comma. If a dot is too strong, but a comma to weak, you use the semicolon. So it's fallen a bit out of fashion.
Semicolons are well defined in their use in English. The problem is that most people don’t understand grammar at the level you need to know how to use them.
There are two cases to use semicolons. One is to separate lists with multiple grouped items (though this may actually be archaic now given how long it’s been since I have seen it). The other is to conjoin two related independent clauses. The problem is that few adults completely understand what an independent clause is. Furthermore, because semicolons are “optional” you can just default to using a period and always be right.
EDIT: In my original posting of this I flipped “independent” and “dependent” which is good reminder for me to be less judgmental and more forgiving, because I have a degree in this and somehow still fucked it up.
I took a senior-level grammar and syntax class when I was in college. As a word geek, I was super excited for it, but after two or three classes it was clear something was very, very wrong. The prof couldn’t gain any purchase with the class, with nearly everyone seeming disinterested and uninvolved in his lecturing and questions.
When we came in for the next class, the prof, clearly in a pissed off mood, grabbed a dry erase marker and wrote “Because the dog ran away” on the board.
He pointed to the first student in the first row and cold called on him directly, asking “Is this an independent or dependent clause?”. The student paused and then sheepishly replied “Independent”. The prof pointed at the next student, who followed the lead of the first and also said “Independent”. He pointed at a third student, who also said it was a independent clause.
At that point the prof went from pissed off to defeated. He retreated to a desk in the corner and told us to read from our textbooks. Not only had three students failed to identify a basic dependent clause in a high level class on syntax, but two students also failed to realize that the reason he kept asking for an answer was because the first answer was wrong. Even if the other two students hadn’t known it was a dependent clause, they should have been able to figure out from his cold response and re-asking of the question that “Independent” was not the answer he was looking for.
The rest of the semester he just phoned it in, giving us readings and simple assignments to complete that he probably didn’t even look at. We didn’t touch complicated syntax in the slightest — how could we? The class wasn’t ready for it. If ever there was an audience that should have been able to properly identify clauses, it was that class, and even they couldn’t cut it.
I can absolutely empathise with that professor, but it sounds like a real shame that if he was going to throw out the syllabus anyway he didn't try starting that next lecture with "You guys clearly don't know shit, so let's start with the basics and see if we can get you up to speed". Obviously replanning a whole term would be hellish, and I wouldn't ask for that, but I feel like the class could've learned a lot just from an off the cuff intro, given how far behind they evidently were.
I don’t blame him. There were several prerequisites for the class that were supposed to cover the basics, so theoretically we all should have been well equipped for something more rigorous. Also, he wasn’t getting any buy-in from the students in the slightest. Almost everyone was checked out from day one and didn’t come around to him, despite his efforts for the first few classes.
Forgive my ignorance, but how is that not a dependent clause? Maybe it could stand alone as a pointed answer to a question in casual conversation but that doesn't seem like something a grammar teacher would be espousing. Wouldn't it need to be "Because he was mistreated, the dog ran away" for it to be an independent clause?
Lol, egg on my face! I flipped dependent and independent in my retelling and proved @Akir’s point better than I was intending. I’ll edit it to be right as soon as I’m not out and about and have time to fix my facepalmy error.
And here I was thinking there was some esoteric grammar rule I've never heard of and a professor was shredding people for not knowing it. :P
Nope! Just me shredding people for their sins all while I’m unintentionally committing them. 😬😫
The weird thing is that I definitely DO know the difference between independent and dependent clauses, and I honestly have no idea what wires crossed in my brain to cause me to flip the two in my original post.
Between being told that I'm wrong about the lists thing by multiple people, and me missing this, I'm starting to think I may need to slow down and actually read what people are saying. 😅
While it's a shame this scenario exists, I think the state of the students in the class is understandable. It's hard to explain why grammar is important, so many students will just turn off their brains when it comes to really complex ideas like sentence clauses. And I wouldn't be surprised if some linguists didn't think that strict grammar at this level is even necessary. In any case, grammar is fungible as it often comes second to style.
Of course I'm not even going to get into the arguements about how primary schools aren't properly preparing its students since that's a whole other can of worms.
Hey, I did this the other day lol.
I do this all the time. I did it on tild.es just last month. (Technically this is probably an abuse of syntax, because my intra-item commas are delineating an interjection, not separating clauses, but whatever, someone else can fight about that if they want.) The construct may be infrequently used, but I don't think it's archaic.
For the lazy:
https://www.duden.de/sprachwissen/rechtschreibregeln/Groß- und Kleinschreibung
The spaces can be encoded as well to generate a link to a URL with spaces: https://www.duden.de/sprachwissen/rechtschreibregeln/Groß-%20und%20Kleinschreibung
Yep. If you view the markdown for my comment (click "More..." > "View markdown"), that's exactly what I used. ;)
See also: Percent-encoding
To date space is the only ascii value I have memorized because of all of the urls I’ve read.
For me, the semicolon is, or can be, more than just a pause. I sometimes use it when I present two thoughts, ideas, or clauses which, though different and distinct, relate to each other. The semicolon, in such cases, acts as the fulcrum between the two, or the peak between two sides of a hill. It communicates a relationship, a synergy between the two things in a way that a period does not.
I strongly disagree with the article stating social media makes people pithy and to the point. Twitter might, but read any longer form article, Instagram post, or even tweet thread and you’ll notice tons of thoughts punctuated by parenthetical phrases or em-dashes that just drop pointless tangential side-comments into the middle of a thought. Mercilessly self-edited is the opposite of what online posts are. They’re more often painfully navel gazing and meandering. It’s ideal for semicolon usage.
I’d say the decline probably has more to do with people just not being sure how to use them anymore and being too worried about being judged by internet grammarians to stick their necks out and be adventurous in their punctuation and word choice.
Every time I see a link to UnHerd posted another little piece of my heart breaks.
For the uneducated, what's up with UnHerd?
This is the most direct, easily read explanation I've found.
https://brokenbottleboy.substack.com/p/the-weird-history-of-the-cow-site
The author seems to be a little harsh on John Gray. Don't agree with a lot of what Gray has published, but he has also made some very interesting observations elsewhere. Fair points otherwise.
Certainly, they publish a lot of drivel. However, this piece (and indeed a good few others) are worth sharing...
I love semicolons and use them every day.