40 votes

Even with the reactionary backlash, trans acceptance has been the one good news in this millennium

I sorta think pretty much everything else have been a downward spirel since this millennium was kickstarted with 9/11. Just a random thought! The speed with which trans women moved from being perverted men to moderately tolerated members of society is staggering. Anyone here know why and when it happened?

If we look at Google Ngram for 'trans people' we see an upward curve after 2000 (the internet I guess) but it really took off somewhere after 2010.

25 comments

  1. [5]
    drannex
    Link
    The biggest effect was the change of the DSM, with the introduction of DSM-5 in 2013. I am currently traveling, and can't find any quick descriptions, but with that change it led to massive...

    The biggest effect was the change of the DSM, with the introduction of DSM-5 in 2013.

    With the publication of DSM–5 in 2013, “gender identity disorder” was eliminated and replaced with “gender dysphoria.” This change further focused the diagnosis on the gender identity-related distress that some transgender people experience (and for which they may seek psychiatric, medical, and surgical treatments) rather than on transgender individuals or identities themselves. (x)

    The 2013 update to the DSM (DSM-V) renamed “gender identity disorder” as “gender dysphoria,” removing some of the stigma attached to “disorder” and essentially altering the classification from a pathology to an identity. (x)

    I am currently traveling, and can't find any quick descriptions, but with that change it led to massive changes in the healthcare of trans people, more diagnosis' were possible, more effective treatments were possible that beforehand were locked off as it required far more criteria beyond just 'gender dysphoria'. There has also been a massive improvement on the scientific side for treatment in transitioning.

    I'll try to find more sources and reasons when I get back (maybe someone else will have better info than myself at the moment and help out!)

    23 votes
    1. [3]
      Gaywallet
      Link Parent
      I think it's important to note that it came with a cultural shift as well. Trans representation in media has exploded in the last decade. The more media representation there is the more diversity...

      I think it's important to note that it came with a cultural shift as well. Trans representation in media has exploded in the last decade. The more media representation there is the more diversity of narratives you have to experience and the less tokenized the identity looks. The more diversity that people see, the more they can find similar narratives and can better define parts of their lives that they may not have had language for. The more representation there is the less scary it is to step into these roles and both live and express them.

      Some of this representation is a direct cause of the reduction in gatekeeping of medical care to transgender people, but the social component cannot be separated in a clean way. There are a lot of millenials who have transitioned in the last few years, and while one common narrative is "I always felt like a <insert gender they are transitioning to", another extremely common narrative is "I didn't know what was going on with me until <insert resonant story of trans person they were first introduced to or saw in media>." Similarly, narratives of being too scared to come out or not wanting to live in a space of such high marginalization are becoming increasingly more common too. I know many elder queers who "decided" to never transition because they didn't want to deal with how they believed they'd be ostracized.

      14 votes
      1. [2]
        boxer_dogs_dance
        Link Parent
        For people looking for interesting transgender characters and plots, one of my favorite shows to stream has them in some episodes, Midnight Diner on Netflix.

        For people looking for interesting transgender characters and plots, one of my favorite shows to stream has them in some episodes, Midnight Diner on Netflix.

        6 votes
        1. Halfdan
          Link Parent
          Yeah, that one's good. Is it me, or does Japanese trans women seem over-the-top flamboyant? Or is that just how they're portrayed in movies? Samurai Gourmet is good too, if you're into low-stake...

          Yeah, that one's good. Is it me, or does Japanese trans women seem over-the-top flamboyant? Or is that just how they're portrayed in movies?

          Samurai Gourmet is good too, if you're into low-stake stories with people eating. No transgender characters though.

          But Wild Zero did feature a transgender female lead. Premiering in 1999, it's a bit ahead of its time. The movie is a bit of a mess, but with enough zombies, rock'n roll and crazy ideas to pull through.

          2 votes
    2. DanBC
      Link Parent
      Yes, and the WHO are moving it from psychiatric illnesses to sexual health. And the only reason there's a category in DSM or ICD is to preserve a coding that can be used by health systems in order...

      Yes, and the WHO are moving it from psychiatric illnesses to sexual health. And the only reason there's a category in DSM or ICD is to preserve a coding that can be used by health systems in order to provide healthcare.

      2 votes
  2. [2]
    isopod
    Link
    The most revolutionary thing I've seen as a tutor for 16-or-so years is that the standard, normally-accepted viewpoint amongst young people in my fairly liberal, east coast US area has very...

    The most revolutionary thing I've seen as a tutor for 16-or-so years is that the standard, normally-accepted viewpoint amongst young people in my fairly liberal, east coast US area has very obviously shifted in stages:

    • 2007-ish: Resisting gay marriage ("What if kids with gay parents are confused!?")
    • 2010-13: Being mostly ok with gay marriage ("Yeah, of course people should be able to do whatever!")
    • 2014-17: Debating trans rights and pronouns ("I'm ok with gay people, obviously, but I just don't like being told to treat a man like a woman y'know")
    • 2018+: Being cool with trans rights and mostly getting pronouns right ("Yeah that's Jenna, she/her, I'm working on my Algebra project with her...") with a few kids deciding to very loudly dissent

    I know it hasn't panned out this well everywhere, but as a kid of two moms who is committed to a trans partner, I'm just really glad that I can breathe easy and my partner can get proper medical care.

    If the situation backslides, at least we've got a strong foothold to fight from.

    22 votes
    1. ComicSans72
      Link Parent
      I remember America's top model had a trans competitor (isis king https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isis_King ) in 2008 even. Lots of incredibly brave people forcing everyone to look out prejudices...

      I remember America's top model had a trans competitor (isis king https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isis_King ) in 2008 even. Lots of incredibly brave people forcing everyone to look out prejudices in the eye.

      1 vote
  3. [7]
    TallUntidyGothGF
    Link
    As someone who started transitioning ~3 years ago and is perhaps a little bit younger than some of the other commenters on this thread (though not that young, very early 30s), it really doesn't...

    As someone who started transitioning ~3 years ago and is perhaps a little bit younger than some of the other commenters on this thread (though not that young, very early 30s), it really doesn't feel so great.

    The present environment is terrifying. We are discussed in the media here in the UK every single day, in the most dehumanising terms. Even The Guardian are all in on it. Opinion polls show a general pronounced regression in support for trans rights. Those opinion polls indicate to me that (not far from) every second person thinks I shouldn't be able to use the right bathroom, think I pose a 'risk of harm.' A majority don't want me to be able to be able to use a changing room or play sport, etc. It doesn't feel like there is much unilateral understanding or support.

    When people make this kind of argument that it's better than it's ever been, this would seem to be untrue with respect to a baseline of maybe 5-10 years ago, and it also kind of comes across a little bit like 'well, at least there were equality laws to repeal, access to medicine to revoke, a void of violence against trans people to fill, in the first place.' Perhaps a little bit understating the enormity of the current situation.

    16 votes
    1. [2]
      DanBC
      Link Parent
      Yes, and I think some people don't quite understand just how bad the UK situation is. We have a law (the Equality Act 2010) which should provide protections for trans people. But it's widely...

      Yes, and I think some people don't quite understand just how bad the UK situation is.

      We have a law (the Equality Act 2010) which should provide protections for trans people. But it's widely misunderstood, and widely misrepresented, and sections of it have been misused ("protected belief") to attack trans people.

      We have a range of national newspapers in the UK. The Independent, The Metro, and The Financial Times are the only papers that do not have an anti-trans editorial position.

      We have a range of national broadcast media. The BBC (especially BBC news and current affairs) is rabidly anti-trans; Channel 4 is doing their tedious both-sidesing "we're neutral and challenging, here's a bigot, ooh aren't we holding the difficult conversations"; ITV doesn't appear to be anti-trans but isn't running anything that's particularly pro trans people or pro trans rights.

      The NHS is going backwards and adding further restrictions to care for children, who already had a Twenty year wait list.

      I stopped posting UK news to ~lgbt because it just felt like perpetual doom, and while that's important we need more trans joy.

      Anyone who is trans or nb in the UK: I'm sorry the UK is like it is. I see you, I support you, I love you. And I'm doing my little bit to fight back.

      12 votes
      1. TallUntidyGothGF
        Link Parent
        I relate to this strongly! Committing the sin of eternal meta-commentary: one of the best influences for my mental health recently has been that I haven't been seeing all the transphobic news and...

        I stopped posting UK news to ~lgbt because it just felt like perpetual doom, and while that's important we need more trans joy.

        I relate to this strongly! Committing the sin of eternal meta-commentary: one of the best influences for my mental health recently has been that I haven't been seeing all the transphobic news and discussion via Reddit (I already didn't visit news websites).

        The NHS is going backwards and adding further restrictions to care for children, who already had a Twenty year wait list.

        Indeed, and hardly any better for adults. Not even getting into the horror show that is the GRC process. In the opinion poll I posted, a large portion are against it being easier to change gender administratively - I wonder just how easy they think it is.

        2 votes
    2. sparksbet
      Link Parent
      I think the UK is pretty uniquely doing much worse with trans rights compared to its peers. There's a reason we call it "TERF island". There have been setbacks and horrible legislation in the US...

      I think the UK is pretty uniquely doing much worse with trans rights compared to its peers. There's a reason we call it "TERF island". There have been setbacks and horrible legislation in the US as well, but it's a lot more partisan and thus very state-dependent and opposed strongly by those on the other side of the political aisle. Whereas in the UK there's no state government equivalent and none of the major parties disavow transphobia. The result is a very different picture when you look at the history of trans rights in the respective countries.

      8 votes
    3. thefilmslayer
      Link Parent
      Agreed. Perhaps the topic is more visible in the public eye, but at a time when people are increasingly just resorting to violence to deal with anything they don't like. I've had to hide my...

      Agreed. Perhaps the topic is more visible in the public eye, but at a time when people are increasingly just resorting to violence to deal with anything they don't like. I've had to hide my trans-ness from people for years out of fear they would turn on me or do something more rash, as I know folks personally who have endured exactly such a scenario.

      3 votes
    4. [2]
      Halfdan
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Yeah. I guess my take is that it's possible to be delighted that trans acceptance have finally gained foothold, while also be seriously worried about the rampant transphobic movements. Those two...

      Yeah. I guess my take is that it's possible to be delighted that trans acceptance have finally gained foothold, while also be seriously worried about the rampant transphobic movements. Those two ideas doesn't cancel each other out.

      EDIT: But I understand the situation in UK is uniquely bad. I just want to say that I didn't intend to belittle that. If I'd seen my post from your perspective, I'd likely react with the same criticism, with the addition of certain crude expletives.

      2 votes
      1. TallUntidyGothGF
        Link Parent
        I see where you're coming from! One thing I have noticed even over the last few years, is that supporters are both more vocal about it, and more understanding. The second is critical, because I...

        I see where you're coming from! One thing I have noticed even over the last few years, is that supporters are both more vocal about it, and more understanding. The second is critical, because I think we used to be in a situation where the majority of supporters would come from a place of general humanism, while still not really 'getting it' and on some level still holding onto a lot of transphobia that they would act out in various ways, even while trying to help (or not).

        What is interesting is that those aren't independent - like you say, it's a reactionary backlash. I'm not sure how I feel about this proposition, but I've certainly seen a lot of trans folks say they wish they could go back 10 years in time, at which time, even though people didn't understand, they weren't in the limelight. I don't think that's the way forward, but it's a relatable feeling.

        2 votes
  4. [2]
    sparksbet
    Link
    It's worth noting that this isn't just affected by how much people are talking about the topic, but also by what words they choose to use for it. Trans terminology is something that had changed...

    if we look at Google Ngram for 'trans people' we see an upward curve after 2000 (the internet I guess) but it really took off somewhere after 2010.

    It's worth noting that this isn't just affected by how much people are talking about the topic, but also by what words they choose to use for it. Trans terminology is something that had changed even within the community over time. Consider, for instance, the term "transsexual", which was a common identity back in the 90s and earlier (at least afaik; I'm too young to have experienced that firsthand) but which has largely been replaced by "transgender" or simply "trans" by now.

    I do definitely agree that trans people have gained a lot more mainstream acceptance recently, and honestly I think the backlash is largely in response to that. I hope things can continue to improve and we can move past the reactionary bullshit quickly.

    4 votes
    1. Halfdan
      Link Parent
      Good point. Okay, here's a ngram for trans people, transsexuals

      this isn't just affected by how much people are talking about the topic, but also by what words they choose to use for it.

      Good point. Okay, here's a ngram for trans people, transsexuals

      1 vote
  5. [9]
    bendvis
    Link
    I don't know if I'd call trans acceptance the only good news this millenium. Renewable energy is growing exponentially and is starting to overtake fossil fuels for electricity generation in...

    I don't know if I'd call trans acceptance the only good news this millenium.

    • Renewable energy is growing exponentially and is starting to overtake fossil fuels for electricity generation in several areas. The cost of solar power in North America in particular has dropped by about 80% in the last 10 years.
    • Global child mortality is dropping rapidly as modern medicine makes its way into the rural corners of the world. Similarly, the percentage of people living in extreme poverty, the percentage of children involved in labor, and the percentage of people experiencing food insecurity have all dropped dramatically since 2000.
    • More people are attending school and for longer than ever before in history, and the literacy rate has been increasing to match.
    • The number of nuclear warheads stockpiled have continued their downward trend since the 80s.
    • The Higgs Boson particle was confirmed, furthering our understanding of mass and gravity.
    14 votes
    1. [4]
      boxer_dogs_dance
      Link Parent
      So it was posted in ~lgbt. I wonder if it was intended to mean the only good news for lgbt people or about lgbt rights. I've seen a lot of bad news for gay people in the last decade, compared to...

      So it was posted in ~lgbt. I wonder if it was intended to mean the only good news for lgbt people or about lgbt rights. I've seen a lot of bad news for gay people in the last decade, compared to the previous decade.

      13 votes
      1. AgnesNutter
        Link Parent
        Even then, many countries have legalised same-sex marriage since the millennium! Not discounting what the OP said since it’s sort of subjective, and I’m not part of the community so what do I know...

        Even then, many countries have legalised same-sex marriage since the millennium! Not discounting what the OP said since it’s sort of subjective, and I’m not part of the community so what do I know anyway, but I think that’s been a very positive change in LGBTQIA+ rights, and I wonder if it has contributed to more acceptance of other people within that umbrella.

        8 votes
      2. UP8
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        My take is that acceptance was increasing everywhere until the last three years or so. I think Trump wasn't particularly anti-LGBTQ, instead he was much more focused on hating on immigrants. It...

        My take is that acceptance was increasing everywhere until the last three years or so. I think Trump wasn't particularly anti-LGBTQ, instead he was much more focused on hating on immigrants. It was known for a long time (at least the 1990s) that the anti-immigrant theme would play well with Republican primary voters but the issue was suppressed because elite opinion (and reality) is that immigrants are very good for the U.S. economy. Watching the 2016 primaries it was notable that every candidate other than Trump was making a tour of Republican donors and kissing a lot of rings and signing off to a very long agenda that appealed to donors instead of voters. (Part of the appeal of running in the Republican primaries back then was the huge amount of money that certain billionaires and near-billionaires would throw at anybody who signed off on that list... You're not supposed to pocket that money but you can use it to give jobs to your friends and be able to call in a favor later.)

        Post-Trump Republicans have been looking for a new agenda and opposing the new visibility of transsexuals has been a major theme, so you get Ron Desantis's "war on woke" which has some populist dimension while backing off from the anti-immigrant policy which is unpopular among donors. As for Trump in 2023, he himself is a center of resentment and outrage, he doesn't have to promise anything anymore as by fighting his own prosecution (persecution?) he is doing all he can.

        8 votes
      3. skybrian
        Link Parent
        Looking through the Wikipedia article for when US states legalized gay marriage, there are a lot of states where it was 2014 or 2015, which is technically still this decade. (Obergefell v. Hodges...

        Looking through the Wikipedia article for when US states legalized gay marriage, there are a lot of states where it was 2014 or 2015, which is technically still this decade. (Obergefell v. Hodges was in 2015.)

        This millennium goes back further.

        3 votes
    2. [3]
      Halfdan
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Oh, absolutely! There's also the acceptance that global warming is a thing. Further also, I think the mainstream understanding of bigotry has gotten more nuanced, with terms like white privilege,...

      Oh, absolutely! There's also the acceptance that global warming is a thing. Further also, I think the mainstream understanding of bigotry has gotten more nuanced, with terms like white privilege, systematic racism, dogwhistling and hyggeracisme. As I recall it beforehand, racism were mostly considered to be nazis openly declaring racist statements in an aggressive voice. On a less serious note, VR moved from a scifi idea to a consumer product, and is quite fun.

      1 vote
      1. updawg
        Link Parent
        So are you coming at this from a Danish perspective only? Because to many of us, before the rise of the Alt-Right, Nazis were basically not a concern in any way whatsoever and were largely a joke...

        So are you coming at this from a Danish perspective only? Because to many of us, before the rise of the Alt-Right, Nazis were basically not a concern in any way whatsoever and were largely a joke ("I hate Illinois Nazis").

        1 vote
      2. thefilmslayer
        Link Parent
        It would have been nice if people accepted global warming when it was possible to do more about it.

        It would have been nice if people accepted global warming when it was possible to do more about it.

    3. CosmicDefect
      Link Parent
      Minor correction: The Higgs doesn't have much to do with gravity. With that said, this millennium so far has been a boon to our understanding of gravity with the first photographs of a black hole...

      The Higgs Boson particle was confirmed, furthering our understanding of mass and gravity.

      Minor correction: The Higgs doesn't have much to do with gravity. With that said, this millennium so far has been a boon to our understanding of gravity with the first photographs of a black hole event horizon as well as the confirmation of gravitational waves.