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How rigid/fluid is your LGBT identity?
Is it static, or does it change?
How does that feel to you?
How does it play out in your day-to-day life?
What thoughts do you have about rigidity/fluidity in general?
(As always, I'm using LGBT as an umbrella term here, so this question applies to anyone with minority gender, sexual, or romantic identities)
I’m a man in a woman’s body, but I would never change my body, I love it, it’s beautiful and I really feel like I lucked out getting this one.
Being in a woman’s body has opened up so many important doors for me, and while yea I do deal with being mansplained to and etc etc it really feels like I’m cheating when I enter women’s social circles and pursue women romantically, and, sometimes, the women pick up on the fact that I’m an imposter and it backfires lol
I dont talk about it really because everyone I tell is like “what….” But thats really how I feel, and when I dream at night, in my dreams I’m a man.
Thank you for sharing. This is a story that I (cis straight man) haven’t seen. It’s very intriguing to me to learn that there are trans that don’t want to change (I’m sorry if that sentence was insensitive or incorrect, I’m very inexperienced in this thread).
My only other reaction I had was “yeah, women’s bodies are amazing! If i had one I might not want to change it either.” Which was a fun little thought experiment. Thank you again!
Thanks I don't ever share this because I think it makes trans people feel invalidated somehow. Like, it doesn't make any sense to me that my experience would be like theirs, but some people on this planet would use me as an excuse to say that trans people don't need healthcare, because I don't need healthcare.
And yet again I’m reminded how privileged I am. That sucks.
I’m privileged in a lot of ways too, I don’t think it’s anything to be ashamed of. I’m healthy, and happy, it’s alright that some things are awkward for me cause I got put in the wrong body it’s a good body I’m happy to have this one.
I'm intrigued and would be thankful if you'd want to share this/these stories. How do they pick up on this and if they already got to know you in what ways does it matter in a relationship ?
Its not a conscious decision on their part, they just don’t trust me.
It’s also very common for people to feel distrustful of people who are on the autism spectrum, which I am, because we break social norms and that ‘odd behavior’ puts them on high alert. With me, it’s compounded, because I’m autistic and also socialized as a man because I’m a man on the internet and growing up all my friends were men. I break the social norms of women on women friendships basically two sentences into a conversation.
Ahh, yeah, a speech therapist of mine called it "when people have weird thoughts about you". Just something makes them feel like you might be a little (or a lot) different, not necessarily that they figured out you're actually a man.
It's alright keep trying :) find the girls who naturally have a ton of guy friends, we prefer certain non-standard women ways too.
Oh yeah I mean, I have plenty of friends. I have since high school. I get a lot of grace because of how I look, and so when I'm weird most people let it go. I even have a decent number of friends who are girls, but they're all somewhere on the spectrum except for one and I think she's just got a thing for stray dogs.
It was only ever an issue with the popular girls in school, cause they don't care how cute I am, I'm weird. So, popular girls, typical girls you find at bars, realtors, nurses, recruiters, those types, the general 'club for girls' like a running group I once tried to join, places like that I've learned I just don't belong and never will, and that's okay, I'm an adult, no one is forcing me to do those things. I can go hang out at my local board game bar and everyone loves me there.
Edit: Like, I think a really good way to nail down what I'm trying to say is like, so I found myself at this Taylor Swift DJ thing a while back cause a friend of mine invited me out with her group of girl friends and their husbands. I chilled with the husbands the entire time because while all of use appreciate Taylor Swift, we don't know all the words by heart, her songs don't 'speak' to us in the same way they speak to my friend and her group of girl friends. I didn't feel left out, I didn't feel like anyone was judging me or anything, I just spent the whole night sitting back with the guys instead of dancing with the girls because that's who I am, a guy.
Most people, this situation just happens sometimes, like they have hobbies they prefer which men happen to prefer more and such, but for me it's everything. My whole entire life, I have had the preferences of things which guys prefer, and I vividly remember being like 6 years old and so upset that I could not go into the boys bathroom with my best friend, I had to go into the girls bathroom with all the girls who would bully me. I spent my entire formative years being a man on the internet, being in mens circles, talking about women like a man, experiencing the world like a man on the internet. Then I would have to leave and go to school and I only finally in high school learned to act like how Iook, and its been easy since then.
I'll be honest, I don't check that often.
I know I'm not a girl, I know that clearly doesn't apply. I also know I'm not a guy, I also know that clearly doesn't apply. So, naturally, I'm some flavour of non-binary, therefore queer, therefore trans, the proof is trivial and left as an exercise for the reader, pronouns they/them, thank you very much.
Could I arrive at a deeper understanding of my gender and my identity were I to put the time and effort in? Maybe! Would I figure out I'm actually genderfluid, or flux, or demi-something? Probably, not gonna lie! But I have other things to do, and not knowing this doesn't cause me any particular trouble or discomfort, so this is the army we go to war with.
That’s so cool. I’m loving this question cause reading the answers is giving me new viewpoints to try out. (Please read that as enthusiastic and not sarcastic)
Anyway, I like your answer / story / perspective enough to tell you with words rather than just a vote. Thank you for sharing!
I feel pretty confident in my cis gay male identity.
I've had moments where I considered "what if I'm bi and just repressing the straight side" and I think I could spend the night with a lady and have a fun time, but there's no active desire there. I want to date and love and enjoy my life alongside a male partner.
Regarding gender expression, I do lightly dabble in femininity as an extension of my masculinity, not as a replacement. For the vast majority of time I do and actively want to present masculine, though.
I follow some non-binary creators and I love how some of them play with gender and seem to flow between both presentations so effortlessly, it's fun to watch their expertise play out.
I feel a bit like your cis straight counterpart.
A few of the men in my life have my heart in ways that I would appreciate a happily ever after, and I've also wondered if I've repressed that side due to norms and habituations, but I can't help but shake the scents and hairstyles and sensitivities of women and how they light my fire.
I also like to paint my nails, have picked up sewing, and consciously avoid masculine centered interests like sports or cars.
But I also think I'm in the eternal dance of trying to intellectualize what a feeling is rather than just experiencing it fully.
Sudden tangent that I decided to keep in this comment rather than move to my journal:
I think ultimately I just love how thoughtful and curious I am in my 30s because this life has shown me enough to warrant a desire to retreat, but still I persist.
Yeah, at some point the self-analysis stops being helpful. I had a brief moment of wondering how much of what I was questioning about myself were genuine questions my soul was asking, or just the heteronormative upbringing I had. Now it's clear it was the latter, but it did have me wondering for a bit.
I put myself vaguely on the ace spectrum, and a lot of ace discourse is (or was, I guess, I'm not particularly dialed in any more) open to the possibility that orientation can vary or drift over time. (Or that it might not! Obviously lots of people e.g. realize they're suuuuuper gay at 15 and absolutely never waver in that conviction, and that's totally fine.) Some of this might just be that various ace identities overlap in ways that are difficult to explore intentionally (e.g. if you're demi, you're likely to consider yourself fully ace until you meet The One™), but I think some of it is probably a reaction to a common reaction to people who enter a sexual relationship after having identified as ace: "oh, that's normal/just for attention/you just haven't met the right person yet". This is obvious BS, and the most comprehensive way to head it off is to say "they can have been ace before and now they're not and that's valid".
Anyway, regardless of the reason, I never felt super tied to the way I identified, and my self-identity drifted from fully ace to demi as I had the opportunity to act on crushes in my late teenage years. These days I'm happily married to one of those crushes, and so I really don't think about it much. It's not clear to me if that was my identity changing or my romantic circumstances, and… I don't really care much? Thinking it can be fluid, for me, means I don't feel the need to worry about my identity. If I bumped into some rando on the street tomorrow and thought they were super fuckin' hot, that would be very surprising, and socially awkward, but not a crisis of identity.
Being a cis person married to another cis person of the opposite gender is obviously an extremely passing situation, so I don't think my identity has ever come up outside conversations with partners. It's discernible (for example, a surprising number of my straight male coworkers have been willing to openly express attraction to random women; unprofessionalism aside, that experience is just totally alien to me), but not overt.
In general? I think a lot of straight people (and probably at least a few gay people) would benefit from allowing for a bit more fluidity. You don't control who you're attracted to, and so if you find yourself attracted to someone unexpected, that ideally shouldn't trigger a crisis of identity. I realize that straight folk denying same-sex attraction is heavily tied up in internalized homophobia, so it's not as simple as I'm presenting it here, but I guess I just wish that brushing up against queer experiences would make people more inclined to broaden their horizons rather than doubling down.
It's so fluid that in all manners it has become less like an ocean of physical force to flail against and more like a dense fog that moves and swirls at even the slightest thought of a breeze.
Genderfluid here, and I've landed on the term because I doubt I'm ever going to find a fixed identity particularly happy. There's a lot of comfort in embracing the flux. I'm pretty male-presenting IRL, but online or offline if this ever comes up I just tell people to address me however the hell they want. I don't correct anyone.
I was still a little off about the masculine parts of my identity until I became a parent - the 'dad' label fits me well, I think. Aside from fixing cars with swear words and listening to Steely Dan, it feels like something I enjoy compartmentalizing as a social place for me which I chose. Otherwise I would have little attachment to being male.
My gender is definitely on the fluid side of things. I am definitely non-binary and exactly how I express myself varies a lot based on how I'm feeling as well as based on the context I'm in. It's like one of those slimes kids play with or like flubber or smth. There's a core there that things are centered around, but the exact shape and consistency varies wildly.
ofc this makes selecting the exact set of labels that apply to me pretty hard, but I think labels are only useful to the extent they are useful. When I get overwhelmed or confused by parts of myself that don't fit well into categories, at the moment I focus less on trying to find new categories or labels for those things and more on ascertaining what I practically want from my life, regardless. Am I a trans man or a butch woman or something in-between? That's a tough philosophical question. But I knew I wanted top surgery and I'm happier now that I've gotten it. I am happier when people use certain pronouns but otherwise don't care that much. I want to wear men's clothing. Those are concrete, practical things that I can choose without having the exact labels of my identity figured out.
I wouldn't say my queerness is fluid, but it is definitely part of my identity. I think identity in general is fairly fluid, at least for me, because I have ADHD and a dynamic disability. Day to day, who I am changes based on how I feel in my body, but not because of my gender or whether my interests have changed.
I sit squarely in cis, bi territory.
As for others, I think it all depends on how they feel in their body, and I am not one to judge how someone else feels, whether they feel static or fluid.
As a fellow ADHDer, you’ve made me wonder if someone could be fluid with their (gestures at thread) based on who they’re with.
Like I’m am different people with different people. Would my orientation / identity change with the right crowd? Wild.
Thank you for sharing!
Edit: for clarity, I’m cis straight man and never wavered (but haven’t really tried? I know I’m not physically attracted to other men, though).
oof, me too
I realized recently I split my social life into three circles - family, friends made before I turned 20-ish, friends made after I turned 20-ish, and I am very much a different person with all three. Oh, and when alone I am a fourth different person! Is that the real me? God knows!
EDIT: Forgot my partner! I'm probably a fifth different person with him, but that kinda overlaps with the friends after 20-ish group, but not quite because there are recognizable differences. Also if I have to spend time with a mixed assortment of people from the groups above, my brain breaks so that's lovely to deal with.
I'm still unpacking how much of it is masking that just stuck around and is now my apparent personality with that specific group, and how much is the real me. Actually, do I even know who the real me is? See the previous paragraphs.
Being neurodivergent is so fun. /s
Is anyone a real anything all alone? No one is an island, and we are all shaping ourselves around the people around us.
I’ve stopped questioning it. It’s just, who I am. Like asking a mirror what it looks like. Also I haven’t been introspective spirally since having kids. So that helps!
Pretty darn rigid, bi/pansexual binary trans woman through and through. I primarily like women, but I also definitely like men too (and those in between). My sexuality was fluid in a sense pre-transition, but fluidity isn't quite the right word, more like in denial over my actual preferences (I had a very hard time seeing myself as a gay/bi man, but no qualms about men from a woman's perspective).
The only real question is if I'm compatible with polyamory or not, to which I think the answer is "no"? But I'm not sure. It's certainly popular among my demographic—the "greater seattle area trans polycule" is not a joke, I know people in it—but seeing several close friends in a throuple and actually having a healthy relationship challenges my previous assessments.
I couldn't care less about other people's gender or sexuality, fluid or not, I only care as far as getting enough information to treat them correctly/fairly.
I don't see it as an identity really.
Aromantic, asexual, and agender describe aspects of my identity and experiences, but to me are not an identity unto themselves any more than having blue eyes is.
I find comfort in these labels, but I won't be broken up about it if they ever stop being accurate descriptions.
I don't know how much effect it has on my day to day life: once in a blue moon I get really upset that I have facial hair.
Both of my brothers are in long term relationships and I've never felt the desire to date anyone so I guess that could be counted as an effect.
As for my thoughts on rigidity/fluidity:
Labels are words and words exist to communicate something.
Gender is a real thing that people experience (or don't experience in my case), but it is defined by consensus.
There's also no sexuality in nature, there are animals that are gay by our definitions, but to the animals there's attraction and acting upon attraction.
So if sexuality isn't a fact of nature, and just describe your attraction to people of certain genders in relation to your own; and those genders are defined by consensus; then there's no logic in adhering to a sexuality.
Point being that labels are descriptive, not perspective.
Whatever label (for gender or sexuality) gets the point across is the right label.
If you have the occasional attraction to men, but feel that calling yourself a lesbian is a more useful description then as far as I'm concerned you're a lesbian.
If you're probably technically a demiboy or some flavour of masc enby, but feel that calling yourself a man is close enough then I'm not going to argue.
And if the point you're trying to get across ever changes (either because you discover more about yourself, or your experience changes), then I don't see why it would be an issue to use a new word to do that.
To be clear I'm not denying the importance of labels.
Some people say that if there was no bigotry and we treated everyone equally there would be no labels, but I don't think that's true.
Even in that hypothetical world I would've noticed that I experience things different from most of my peers, so I would still want the words to describe my experiences and would still find comfort in knowing that there are other people with similar experiences.
I don't identify as LGBT because my birth designation (female) doesn't bother me, I'm exclusively attracted to men and male-bodied people, and I'm not asexual or aromantic.
However, I'm not super confident in my non-LGBT status. The demographic that I tend to click with stronger than any other is trans men, and I pretty consistently slot into male social groups more readily than female social groups, kind of regardless of culture or subculture (e.g., even in rural, conservative blue-collar environments). However, my very closest platonic friends have usually been women (albeit women who, themselves, mostly have male friends).
I'm not sure why or if this is related at all, but I'm also very commonly misidentified as a lesbian, by both men and women, LGBT and non-LGBT. (To be fair, most of the men I've dated are frequently misidentified as gay. Maybe people just aren't very good at guessing other people's sexualities?)
My parents tell me that when I was a toddler, I would insist I was a boy, and as I got a little older, I regularly expressed a wish to have been born a boy (up until around first grade or so). I also mimicked my dad and my grandpa, not my mom or my grandma, even though I spent way more time with my mom and my grandma (my primary caretakers).
But as I got older (especially in my late teens), this softened and I stopped having any particular opinions about my gender. As an adult, I have no trouble finding women relatable, and I have plenty of female role models. I'm fine with my body and my social position — thus I identify as non-LGBT (although if the circumstances of my life were different, I suspect I would be equally happy as a gay man).
I think I feel not dissimilar about being agender.
I'm fine being a man in most of my day to day life, but I'm definitely more comfortable with they/them in the right social context.
If I wasn't also asexual and aromantic I don't know how long it would've taken me to even give my gender any real thought
Fellow cis female, also not super confident. I think I carry a lot of baggage from being born to a patriarchal + filial piety centered culture and I'm still living with ramifications of being not the hoped + longed for boy heir. I don't want to be a man, but honestly neither do I particularly want to be a woman, I just want to live in a world where people are not horrible to other people. The demisexuality further complicates classification.
I call myself a lesbian, but I don't find men entirely unsexy or think I could never like a man. It's just that anyone who actually identifies as a binary man is almost certainly not going to be my cup of tea at all. That's a rigidity of definition, though.
In terms of things actually moving, I mean, it's moved a lot before. It could again. I just don't expect it at all.