It isn't even 'school' spelled backwards. I'm strongly reminded of scam emails that deliberately include typos to filter out the more skeptical targets early on.
At one point after moving in, Didulo had one of her followers take down the sign bearing the school’s name. In a video shortly before the sign came down Didulo explained her reasoning: “The word school spelled backwards is ‘Loochs’ which I believe is a German word for ‘dumbed down,’” said Didulo.
“Loochs” does not mean dumbed down in German—in fact, it’s not even a German word.
It isn't even 'school' spelled backwards. I'm strongly reminded of scam emails that deliberately include typos to filter out the more skeptical targets early on.
It's ironic that these people are so gullible and yet so firmly entrenched in their beliefs. Search YouTube for "sovereign citizen in court" and you'll find loads of videos where the judge -- the...
It's ironic that these people are so gullible and yet so firmly entrenched in their beliefs. Search YouTube for "sovereign citizen in court" and you'll find loads of videos where the judge -- the very person overseeing their trial -- patiently tries to explain why their theory of the law is wrong, and the sovcit won't have any of it. The "quantum grammar" ones are especially lost.
I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised. A couple years ago a book full of this stuff was one of the top selling legal books on Amazon. YouTube has tons of videos of deluded fools explaining this BS to the extent that it's even possible to be explained. There are more videos of them failing in court, but those probably aren't recommended to someone intent on finding the borogoves.
They've invested a lot of time into learning the Sovereign Citizen interpretation of the law and understand the documents, jargon, and procedures to protect their rights in the court of law based...
It's ironic that these people are so gullible and yet so firmly entrenched in their beliefs. Search YouTube for "sovereign citizen in court" and you'll find loads of videos where the judge -- the very person overseeing their trial -- patiently tries to explain why their theory of the law is wrong, and the sovcit won't have any of it. The "quantum grammar" ones are especially lost.
They've invested a lot of time into learning the Sovereign Citizen interpretation of the law and understand the documents, jargon, and procedures to protect their rights in the court of law based on this interpretation.
What they haven't done is consider what the law actually is. It isn't spells and incantations that, should you do them correctly enough, grant you mastery over the bureaucracy. The legal system is just sort of a bunch of folks acting as if "the law" exists, thereby making it exist. All it is is this broad consensus on 99% of issues related to the law; the edges are where inconsistency abounds and judges can carve out what future jurisprudence will look like. Sovereign Citizens almost exclusively contest issues in that 99% of issues that the whole legal system is in lock-step on.
Sovereign Citizens don't seem to realize that even if their interpretation of the law was 100% accurate, it still wouldn't "work" because that interpretation lies outside of the consensus of the legal system, which is the only view that matters. And it doesn't really matter what the "Correct" interpretation is; this isn't a set of holy books. The only purpose of engaging with the legal system is to get the bureaucracy to align with your interests, a goal they are objectively bad at.
To be fair, the "sovereign citizen" concept fundamentally expects the judge et al to tell the 'citizen' that their theory of law is wrong - the core premise of sovereign citizens is that the court...
Search YouTube for "sovereign citizen in court" and you'll find loads of videos where the judge -- the very person overseeing their trial -- patiently tries to explain why their theory of the law is wrong, and the sovcit won't have any of it.
To be fair, the "sovereign citizen" concept fundamentally expects the judge et al to tell the 'citizen' that their theory of law is wrong - the core premise of sovereign citizens is that the court system is a charade set up to trick you out of your rights by demanding you say/do certain magic phrases, that allow them to judge you under maritime law.
It's all complete bullshit, but it's bullshit being taught in $1000 courses and if you lose your court case then clearly you must have screwed up and accidentally committed joinder and the solution is to pay for another $1000 course. If you listen to the judge, then the grifter loses out on $1000.
Wish I could take credit, but I got that from Judge Jeffrey Middleton, a district court judge in a small town in southern Michigan. Most sovcits object to their beliefs being labeled "sovereign...
Wish I could take credit, but I got that from Judge Jeffrey Middleton, a district court judge in a small town in southern Michigan. Most sovcits object to their beliefs being labeled "sovereign citizen" so he started using the term "borogoves" because it's the same pseudolegal jabberwocky. I like that judge.
I know we're almost trained to have zero sympathy for QAnon loons (for good reason.) But this is really tragic to hear. Folks who've probably grafted all their lives, got to retirement and...
She tells her group that they don’t need to pay their mortgages or utility bills which has led to some of her followers—many of whom are seniors—losing their homes or having their power shut off.
I know we're almost trained to have zero sympathy for QAnon loons (for good reason.) But this is really tragic to hear.
Folks who've probably grafted all their lives, got to retirement and realised just how fucked over they've been in the past 40-50-60 years and go down a rabbit hole because of it... end up destitute and villainised by these planks.
What reprehensible bastards. I hope the town decides to erect a fence to just keep them in over the nice, cold, no-hot-water winter.
While I make it a policy to attempt to approach anything regarding other people with sympathy, people like this are an intentional exemption. My father was one of these people. And the thing to...
While I make it a policy to attempt to approach anything regarding other people with sympathy, people like this are an intentional exemption.
My father was one of these people. And the thing to know about him, which is very likely the case for a number of these people as well, is that he was like this before qAnon was a thing, and for basically as long as I can remember. This kind of behavior - the paranoia, the antisocial behavior, the cult-like thought processes and jumping to irrational conclusions - is all indicative of mental illness.
You might ask why I have no sympathy if I think they are mentally ill. Tragedy is when someone sees something terrible coming to them and they do everything they can in order to stop it but it happens anyways. But these people run at full speed towards every terrible thing that happens to them. You will be lucky if you can get them to talk with a psychologist long enough to get a real diagnosis on them, and so treating their mental issues is practically impossible. These cult members are probably the most fortunate ones because they have a number of people they can talk to; otherwise they are well known for burning every bridge they can. This means they have difficulty holding jobs and often die prematurely in poverty. That’s what happened to my father; he died of Covid in a VA group home without a penny to his name.
I don’t blame anyone who feels sympathy for these people. They are, of course, people. But they aren’t like this because society has turned its back on them. They are like this because they have turned their backs on society. They are living what they view to be their best lives. I wish there was a real solution for this - I would have lived a much better life if I didn’t have to grow up with that overgrown child as a parent - but there isn’t. That’s the real Tragedy.
I empathise. My father has been the same his entire life, so much so that he and I haven't had contact for nearly half of mine now (I'm 35). Reactionary, Ill-advised, xenophobic, you name it my...
My father was one of these people. And the thing to know about him, which is very likely the case for a number of these people as well, is that he was like this before qAnon was a thing, and for basically as long as I can remember. This kind of behavior - the paranoia, the antisocial behavior, the cult-like thought processes and jumping to irrational conclusions - is all indicative of mental illness.
I empathise. My father has been the same his entire life, so much so that he and I haven't had contact for nearly half of mine now (I'm 35). Reactionary, Ill-advised, xenophobic, you name it my father was on the negative spectrum of traits.
I wouldn't say it's mental illness (Hell, maybe I would but it just feels so glib and 'brush under the carpet') I'd say they're usually the consequence of their own childhoods. My father had a 'tough love' upbringing that has kept him in the same deadend job for 40ish years of his life. He was abusive to my mother and I for a good chunk of my childhood and I remained vitriolic and angry towards him well into my late 20's and early 30's. But something I learn when I could look at him from the outside in? Hurt people, hurt people.
I'm not saying that's an excuse, I'm saying its an explaination and one you may or may not already well know.
Tragedy is when someone sees something terrible coming to them and they do everything they can in order to stop it but it happens anyways. But these people run at full speed towards every terrible thing that happens to them. You will be lucky if you can get them to talk with a psychologist long enough to get a real diagnosis on them, and so treating their mental issues is practically impossible.
Where do you run when society offers you no respite? When society tells you to remain in your deadend town / job? When you're betrayed by the very system you've worked, contributed and sometimes even fought for? If there's no safety rope in the cave when your torch goes out, you're only going to get lost and go deeper inside.
In regards to psychologists? Men have been told over the past 100 years that we're 'okay' being the way we are. Now we're seeing men crying for help and falling into damaging group like Tate and QAnon to at least feel SOMETHING will step up and help them. So we never reach out to psyche's because "Well, I'm okay" or even worse... that we believe they're part of the system that's caused the damage in the first place.
These cult members are probably the most fortunate ones because they have a number of people they can talk to; otherwise they are well known for burning every bridge they can. This means they have difficulty holding jobs and often die prematurely in poverty.
You're probably right. I never ask or tell anyone that it's their responsibility to fix these folks, cults are a nightmare to get people out of (and have been for centuries), and there are so few professionals who know how exactly to do that without burning yourself to the ground emotionally.
It's not yours or my responsibility to fix these people, but they are still people being guided by greedy, narcassistic, manipulative bastards to do whatever they want... usually because a system has failed them elsewhere. Don't fix, but do feel for them.
That’s what happened to my father; he died of Covid in a VA group home without a penny to his name.
I'm sorry about your father man, that must have sucked to go through. That's for both this nuttiness AND the death.
I don’t blame anyone who feels sympathy for these people. They are, of course, people. But they aren’t like this because society has turned its back on them. They are like this because they have turned their backs on society. They are living what they view to be their best lives. I wish there was a real solution for this - I would have lived a much better life if I didn’t have to grow up with that overgrown child as a parent - but there isn’t. That’s the real Tragedy.
I'd really argue otherwise for so many reasons. It's glib but the initial remark I made around "the past promised so much" sums it up nicely.
Sometimes I go back to my little town in the UK and it's bleak. There's little to do beyond sleep, drink, work, consume, repeat and I've spoken to old friends who sometimes mention offhand that things feel so broken to them and they don't know where to turn. I left and moved to London and have done exceptionally well for myself, but many of my old friends and mates just haven't... they're in the same cycle my father is in and there is no-where to turn. One lad is 41 and he's go knackered knees from working landscaping/gardening/driveways for the past 25 years of his life... the likelyhood is that he's going to lose his livelyhood because of this and he rents a three bed home and has very little savings due to Covid. He's screwed on so many levels and he's started turning to groups like this just to feel sympathy! (Because society goes, "WELL YOU SHOULD HAVE SAVED MORE!" whilst making him work 14 hour days and breaking his body for the few wealthy folks back home!)
I'm not saying that the system is broken and we're all two steps from a cultist... I'm saying there are massive contributing factors to the current "meh" in society that are leading people to search for ANYTHING that gives them purpose, sympathy and understanding for their suffering. Even if it's insane.
Sympathy costs you nothing. It's not your place to fix them, but recognising that they are just people (oft broken) can help not just them, but others around you. No matter how bloody hard that is (especially if your Dad went down that rabbit hole).
I should clarify two things right off the bat. Number one is that I'm not saying economic issues are not a part of it. Number two is that I'm not saying that I know for sure that these people in...
I should clarify two things right off the bat. Number one is that I'm not saying economic issues are not a part of it. Number two is that I'm not saying that I know for sure that these people in the article are mentally ill (though I assume that a number of them are since they are showing so many familiar symptoms), but I'm speaking about those who are. I wrote my earlier comment right when I woke up so I apologize if I came across the wrong way.
I wasted years of my life trying to help my father. It didn't help him one bit. The last of his working days were him working from his own business because he couldn't get along with others over long periods. I personally saw him constantly sabotaging his own business by mistreating people for imagined offenses. The problem for my father and others like him is not that society didn't help them, or the economic hardships they endured, but rather that they would always poison the relationships required to accept that help. My father was diagnosed not because his family would constantly tell him to go see a psychologist, but because he was given the ultimatum of being thrown out of his group home or getting a psychological evaluation. There are people who would have chosen to be thrown out instead.
I have no sympathy for this kind of person because I spent years sacrificing myself trying to help him. I remember vividly the exact moment when I realized that I had no more sympathy to spare for that man. Sympathy is not free. The price may be small, but it all adds up over time. I learned that the hard way.
My father is not the only person I have seen that acted this way. I had a coworker for a year or so who had the same symptoms. And I tried my hardest to sympathize with him. It sucked so much energy from me, and eventually I ran out of patience. There are so many subjects I asked him to stop talking to me about because I could not take his toxicity. But he was obsessed about it and would keep talking about it anyways. He was living with his childhood best friend at the start, but he ended up kicking him out because he committed the ultimate sin of attending a concert for a band he didn't like. As far as I know the only friend the man still had by the time he left my life was his dog, who was probably at the last year of her life. I can't help but feel sad about that. But I just can't stretch my sympathy to any more people like this.
No worries man, you came across fine! I get that. Sounds like you're dad was made of nothing but fury against everyone for anything? "Hurt people, Hurt people" isn't a dismissive towards this. But...
I wrote my earlier comment right when I woke up so I apologize if I came across the wrong way.
No worries man, you came across fine!
I wasted years of my life trying to help my father. It didn't help him one bit. The last of his working days were him working from his own business because he couldn't get along with others over long periods. I personally saw him constantly sabotaging his own business by mistreating people for imagined offenses. The problem for my father and others like him is not that society didn't help them, or the economic hardships they endured, but rather that they would always poison the relationships required to accept that help. My father was diagnosed not because his family would constantly tell him to go see a psychologist, but because he was given the ultimatum of being thrown out of his group home or getting a psychological evaluation. There are people who would have chosen to be thrown out instead.
I get that. Sounds like you're dad was made of nothing but fury against everyone for anything?
"Hurt people, Hurt people" isn't a dismissive towards this. But the dude was probably damaged and simply couldn't exist in any other state. Hell, I've been in a place where I self-isolate socially because my brain imploaded due to past pressures and current pressures happening all at once. I couldn't imagine living like that constantly without becoming a twisted version of a person who SHOULD be decent.
I get the 'value of effort' approach to this, I do. It's something I spent years with my family trying and eventually just went "Oh fuck it" and now I am happily a voluntary orphan at 35. I do not pity my family, I do not 'feel' personally for them or hold anything against them, they're just products of their upbringings and life-events that have gone untreated and unfixed. When I do think about them? I just kind of go "Man, it sucks for them to be stuck like that" and that's it. It's nothing more than that. There's no emotional hangover or feeling I carry forwards. But I've found it actually makes me a more empathic and caring person towards those I DO have in my life.
Again, nothing prescriptive, We each keep ourselves safe from shitty family and shitty situations in different ways.
I have no sympathy for this kind of person because I spent years sacrificing myself trying to help him. I remember vividly the exact moment when I realized that I had no more sympathy to spare for that man. Sympathy is not free. The price may be small, but it all adds up over time. I learned that the hard way.
It's a cold moment isn't it? I've described it to so many people who find out that I disowned my folks, and they never get it. Sorry you've had to go through the entire situ dude, it's not something I wish on anyone.
He was living with his childhood best friend at the start, but he ended up kicking him out because he committed the ultimate sin of attending a concert for a band he didn't like.
This has genuinely given me such a laugh as I know the EXACT type.
But I just can't stretch my sympathy to any more people like this.
I don't know if it's emotive sympathy or just a good word. Like I said above? It's not your place to listen, live with or fix these folks. So a mental acknowledgement of "That sucks for them" might just give you your own peace towards them? I don't have to fix my family, it sucks they're stuck that way... but such is life.
No matter how much we think these people don't deserve sympathy, there's no-one I'd want to see taken advantage of by these leeches in QANON and the such. Luckily it's not so big in the UK, but we've got our own issues with conspiracy nuts and their ilk.
All of this said and done? Have a good Sunday mate.
I will just chime in to say I think "hurt people hurt people" as the bumper sticker saying it is, has a lot of problems, it's become a popular cliche but it's not always true, and I'm not even...
I will just chime in to say I think "hurt people hurt people" as the bumper sticker saying it is, has a lot of problems, it's become a popular cliche but it's not always true, and I'm not even sure it's true in a majority of situations. So I think it's a harmful idea to spread.
Plenty of victims of abuse don't turn around and become perpetrators of that abuse later on and I think statements like this stigmatize or stereotype victims in a dangerous way- because it becomes a thought-terminating cliche that people can easily toss around and repeat it as if its some baseline truth
Then you're misreading or misunderstanding it. If you're the victim of abuse and you're problematic because of it? It's spot on because you're hurt and you're hurting. If you're the victim of...
Then you're misreading or misunderstanding it.
If you're the victim of abuse and you're problematic because of it? It's spot on because you're hurt and you're hurting.
If you're the victim of abuse and you're working on yourself / being better then it doesn't relate as you're hurt but not hurting.
It's not perfect by any means. But it is extremely applicable to the vast majority of cases. It often helps the abused to look at their abuser and recognise that there maybe only avenue of logic to explain why they did what they did. Helped me when I worked through my problems ( I obsess over the reason, rationale and root cause of people problems) and helps many others to put an answer in dotted lines so they can move on.
I understand completely. My stepfather and one of my friends who I've known for years but only recently came back into contact with have fallen down the same hole; all of their problems seem to be...
I understand completely. My stepfather and one of my friends who I've known for years but only recently came back into contact with have fallen down the same hole; all of their problems seem to be someone else's fault. They espouse weirdo QAnon-adjacent views about shadow state conspiracies and more. Pick a demographic, they've probably got something hateful to say about it. The friend has become wrapped up in the MGTOW movement and blames women constantly about his lack of a dating/romance life. He wrote a self-published "book" that is mostly bizarre rambling that makes me wonder if he may have mental health issues. His mother passed away within the last year, and he's left taking care of his ailing father and their father's business among other things so that may be part of it as well.
I've tried to talk sense to both of them at different points, but it's like talking to a brick wall. Eventually I just gave up trying to be the voice of reason and left them to their own devices. There's only so far you can put yourself out there for others until you realize it's a forgone conclusion. I used to be afraid that I'd fall down the same hole, but even though my mental and physical health have gone done the tubes (working on fixing both), I'm at least grateful that I have a grip on reality still.
Tragic. And the reality is? You're not equipped to be able to talk them out of anything they want to rationalise themselves into. If you're on fire, you'll throw water over yourself to put it out...
I understand completely. My stepfather and one of my friends who I've known for years but only recently came back into contact with have fallen down the same hole; all of their problems seem to be someone else's fault. They espouse weirdo QAnon-adjacent views about shadow state conspiracies and more. Pick a demographic, they've probably got something hateful to say about it. The friend has become wrapped up in the MGTOW movement and blames women constantly about his lack of a dating/romance life. He wrote a self-published "book" that is mostly bizarre rambling that makes me wonder if he may have mental health issues. His mother passed away within the last year, and he's left taking care of his ailing father and their father's business among other things so that may be part of it as well.
Tragic.
I've tried to talk sense to both of them at different points, but it's like talking to a brick wall. Eventually I just gave up trying to be the voice of reason and left them to their own devices. There's only so far you can put yourself out there for others until you realize it's a forgone conclusion.
And the reality is? You're not equipped to be able to talk them out of anything they want to rationalise themselves into. If you're on fire, you'll throw water over yourself to put it out and stop suffering. If you're suffering, you'll eventually go out of your way to soothe whatever is making you suffer... even if it doesn't solve the initial suffering.
I used to be afraid that I'd fall down the same hole, but even though my mental and physical health have gone done the tubes (working on fixing both), I'm at least grateful that I have a grip on reality still.
Self-awareness and 'knowing thyself' is a huge immuniser against thought like this.
Declining mental facilities can play a big role as well. My grandfather used to be very logical and no-nonsense, but starting in his 80s or so, he became vulnerable to really obvious scams and...
Declining mental facilities can play a big role as well.
My grandfather used to be very logical and no-nonsense, but starting in his 80s or so, he became vulnerable to really obvious scams and random myths that made no sense (e.g., he started telling me that I should eat brown eggs because they are healthier — and this coming from a man with a degree in agriculture). He fell down the MAGA hole around that same time period, and I believe the only reason he didn't go full QAnon was because his partner managed to draw him away from it, with great effort, and get him into healthier hobbies.
It was very sad to see him change so quickly from skeptical to gullible. He was still very intelligent in a book-smart kind of way (for example, he was still excelling at chess competitions), but he lost his ability to critically analyze information coming from authoritative-seeming sources.
He died about a week ago (and beat my dad at chess just a few days before that), and while I do miss him, I really miss who he used to be. It makes me so angry when I think about the scammers — Trump's campaign included — who told him lies to extract money from him while he was in such a vulnerable mental state.
That's definitly a problem unto itself isn't it? Feels like there's a lot of failed system that just aren't protecting ourselves from ourselves when we're not... Ourselves (more coffee needed)....
That's definitly a problem unto itself isn't it?
Feels like there's a lot of failed system that just aren't protecting ourselves from ourselves when we're not... Ourselves (more coffee needed). The political crowd who waffle on about deregulation never realise how powerful it can be to protect folks who need it from these dreadful human beings.
I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather mate. Doing okay?
I agree, and it does bear repeating that bleak economic outlooks and lack of social mobility are at least as responsible as social media for the rise of the modern conspiracy movement.
I agree, and it does bear repeating that bleak economic outlooks and lack of social mobility are at least as responsible as social media for the rise of the modern conspiracy movement.
Massively so. But generally that won't go said in big media pieces, because that challenges the status quo... which just throws fuel on the fire of this problem. The past said that we'd have...
Massively so. But generally that won't go said in big media pieces, because that challenges the status quo... which just throws fuel on the fire of this problem.
The past said that we'd have flying cars, work 16 hour weeks and enjoy our downtime better. Instead we're locked into capitalistic hellscapes that we're almost forced to accept as the only way.
No wonder people fall for insane, escapist, conspiracy theories like QAnon to explain the madness away.
I don’t buy that the broader landscape is quite so actually bleak, but it is heartening to see a recognition that these folks are not “crazy,” bit rather reacting to extraordinary circumstances....
I don’t buy that the broader landscape is quite so actually bleak, but it is heartening to see a recognition that these folks are not “crazy,” bit rather reacting to extraordinary circumstances.
In addition systemic failures imapcting these folks, I would bet real money most of these folks have significant trauma histories.
I've just said this in another thread. Hurt people, hurt people. It's likely there's all sorts going on due to past systemtic failures to them and family units. It sucks all around. But we can...
I've just said this in another thread.
Hurt people, hurt people. It's likely there's all sorts going on due to past systemtic failures to them and family units. It sucks all around.
But we can always offer sympathy and care to folks regardless of what they believe (insane or not).
I have to admit, I'm still a little baffled by how what started as a LARP on 8Chan (I remember when it began) managed to grow into this boomer-dominated movement.
I have to admit, I'm still a little baffled by how what started as a LARP on 8Chan (I remember when it began) managed to grow into this boomer-dominated movement.
I'll admit seeing this term gets my back up - largely because it's almost always used derisively - and because Im actually in that age group. But Id like to clarify that "boomers" is quite an old...
boomer
I'll admit seeing this term gets my back up - largely because it's almost always used derisively - and because Im actually in that age group. But Id like to clarify that "boomers" is quite an old age group - from about age 58 to 75. And her followers are primarily NOT boomers at all.
Take a look at the pic of the people who are actually following this "queen" as shown in the article: https://video-images.vice.com/_uncategorized/1698935601704-screen-shot-2023-10-14-at-33814-pm.png?resize=1600:* There are two older white haired ladies on the right side that look like they could be 'boomer' age and a couple of men who look like they might have hit 58. But all of the other people in that pic look like they are more likely in the 25 to 57 age group and there is mention of kids being in the room, and those are not from the 'boomers'. If the article is accurate and attendance was 30 people then about 85% of her followers are younger than boomers.
So, more accurately, if one has to put a label on this person's followers, they are more accurately Millennials or Gen X. Not that it makes it any better to label ANY generation as more gullible than another, but I get tired of seeing "boomers" slagged for every bad thing that's happened in the world, or that we're stupidly out of touch with reality.
My partner and I are Millennials, but my partner is a tertiary teacher with mostly Zoomer students. A staggering percentage of them are somehow under the impression that he is a Boomer and they...
My partner and I are Millennials, but my partner is a tertiary teacher with mostly Zoomer students. A staggering percentage of them are somehow under the impression that he is a Boomer and they are Millennials.
Basically, the word "Millennial" is evolving to mean teen to young adult, and "Boomer" to mean pretty much anyone older than university age.
The last Q drop was in June 2022, when Roe V. Wade was overturned (and prior to that, Q hadn't posted for 1.5 years.) And yeah, Ron Watkins ran for congress in August 2022, receiving a whopping 4%...
The last Q drop was in June 2022, when Roe V. Wade was overturned (and prior to that, Q hadn't posted for 1.5 years.) And yeah, Ron Watkins ran for congress in August 2022, receiving a whopping 4% of the votes.
Edit: Apparently Google led me astray, all the articles in the results said that the June 2022 drops were the last ones, but when I went straight to the source, I see that there were also some drops in November 2022.
Conservatives have always been about clinging to the status quo...it's kinda their thing. The real transformation happened in the wake of the civil rights movements from 1950ish to 1970ish. That's...
Conservatives have always been about clinging to the status quo...it's kinda their thing.
The real transformation happened in the wake of the civil rights movements from 1950ish to 1970ish. That's when they realized they were losing the culture wars. It's part of why The Drug War became so central to suppressing dissidents and minorities. They coalesced around Guns and God, and the partisainship blossomed from there. By honing in so hard on those single issues (liberals stealing your guns and godless atheists letting women kill babies), they got a solid core of single-issue voters that ignore anything else they do.
And yes, the 90's is when they really started turning the screws on the partisianship. But the Heiritage foundation dates back to 1981, and they've been pushing nasty agendas my whole life.
Trump was never an anomoly. He was just Reagan 2.0.
Related post about more of Didulo and her follower's shenanigans from my neck of the woods last year: QAnon protesters attempted to arrest Peterborough police officers over Canada's COVID-19...
Two things. Firstly it irritates me that the leave out it’s an abandoned school in the caption of the first pic. We all know that a lot of people only read the headline and this caption and it...
Two things. Firstly it irritates me that the leave out it’s an abandoned school in the caption of the first pic. We all know that a lot of people only read the headline and this caption and it seems intentional misleading.
Second I have this weird envious feeling about what this small tight knit community is rallying around. It really makes them come together towards a greater purpose and you feel that in the article. I wonder where it leaves this community when/if they manage to drive these nuts out of town and (what I really liked about this) prevent it from happening again.
I did not read the article, only the headline. But as someone whose father (74) is a QAnon believer, I really hope the locals fight back and win. Fuck Q.
I did not read the article, only the headline. But as someone whose father (74) is a QAnon believer, I really hope the locals fight back and win. Fuck Q.
It isn't even 'school' spelled backwards. I'm strongly reminded of scam emails that deliberately include typos to filter out the more skeptical targets early on.
It's ironic that these people are so gullible and yet so firmly entrenched in their beliefs. Search YouTube for "sovereign citizen in court" and you'll find loads of videos where the judge -- the very person overseeing their trial -- patiently tries to explain why their theory of the law is wrong, and the sovcit won't have any of it. The "quantum grammar" ones are especially lost.
I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised. A couple years ago a book full of this stuff was one of the top selling legal books on Amazon. YouTube has tons of videos of deluded fools explaining this BS to the extent that it's even possible to be explained. There are more videos of them failing in court, but those probably aren't recommended to someone intent on finding the borogoves.
They've invested a lot of time into learning the Sovereign Citizen interpretation of the law and understand the documents, jargon, and procedures to protect their rights in the court of law based on this interpretation.
What they haven't done is consider what the law actually is. It isn't spells and incantations that, should you do them correctly enough, grant you mastery over the bureaucracy. The legal system is just sort of a bunch of folks acting as if "the law" exists, thereby making it exist. All it is is this broad consensus on 99% of issues related to the law; the edges are where inconsistency abounds and judges can carve out what future jurisprudence will look like. Sovereign Citizens almost exclusively contest issues in that 99% of issues that the whole legal system is in lock-step on.
Sovereign Citizens don't seem to realize that even if their interpretation of the law was 100% accurate, it still wouldn't "work" because that interpretation lies outside of the consensus of the legal system, which is the only view that matters. And it doesn't really matter what the "Correct" interpretation is; this isn't a set of holy books. The only purpose of engaging with the legal system is to get the bureaucracy to align with your interests, a goal they are objectively bad at.
To be fair, the "sovereign citizen" concept fundamentally expects the judge et al to tell the 'citizen' that their theory of law is wrong - the core premise of sovereign citizens is that the court system is a charade set up to trick you out of your rights by demanding you say/do certain magic phrases, that allow them to judge you under maritime law.
It's all complete bullshit, but it's bullshit being taught in $1000 courses and if you lose your court case then clearly you must have screwed up and accidentally committed joinder and the solution is to pay for another $1000 course. If you listen to the judge, then the grifter loses out on $1000.
Nice Jabberwocky reference.
Wish I could take credit, but I got that from Judge Jeffrey Middleton, a district court judge in a small town in southern Michigan. Most sovcits object to their beliefs being labeled "sovereign citizen" so he started using the term "borogoves" because it's the same pseudolegal jabberwocky. I like that judge.
I know we're almost trained to have zero sympathy for QAnon loons (for good reason.) But this is really tragic to hear.
Folks who've probably grafted all their lives, got to retirement and realised just how fucked over they've been in the past 40-50-60 years and go down a rabbit hole because of it... end up destitute and villainised by these planks.
What reprehensible bastards. I hope the town decides to erect a fence to just keep them in over the nice, cold, no-hot-water winter.
While I make it a policy to attempt to approach anything regarding other people with sympathy, people like this are an intentional exemption.
My father was one of these people. And the thing to know about him, which is very likely the case for a number of these people as well, is that he was like this before qAnon was a thing, and for basically as long as I can remember. This kind of behavior - the paranoia, the antisocial behavior, the cult-like thought processes and jumping to irrational conclusions - is all indicative of mental illness.
You might ask why I have no sympathy if I think they are mentally ill. Tragedy is when someone sees something terrible coming to them and they do everything they can in order to stop it but it happens anyways. But these people run at full speed towards every terrible thing that happens to them. You will be lucky if you can get them to talk with a psychologist long enough to get a real diagnosis on them, and so treating their mental issues is practically impossible. These cult members are probably the most fortunate ones because they have a number of people they can talk to; otherwise they are well known for burning every bridge they can. This means they have difficulty holding jobs and often die prematurely in poverty. That’s what happened to my father; he died of Covid in a VA group home without a penny to his name.
I don’t blame anyone who feels sympathy for these people. They are, of course, people. But they aren’t like this because society has turned its back on them. They are like this because they have turned their backs on society. They are living what they view to be their best lives. I wish there was a real solution for this - I would have lived a much better life if I didn’t have to grow up with that overgrown child as a parent - but there isn’t. That’s the real Tragedy.
I empathise. My father has been the same his entire life, so much so that he and I haven't had contact for nearly half of mine now (I'm 35). Reactionary, Ill-advised, xenophobic, you name it my father was on the negative spectrum of traits.
I wouldn't say it's mental illness (Hell, maybe I would but it just feels so glib and 'brush under the carpet') I'd say they're usually the consequence of their own childhoods. My father had a 'tough love' upbringing that has kept him in the same deadend job for 40ish years of his life. He was abusive to my mother and I for a good chunk of my childhood and I remained vitriolic and angry towards him well into my late 20's and early 30's. But something I learn when I could look at him from the outside in? Hurt people, hurt people.
I'm not saying that's an excuse, I'm saying its an explaination and one you may or may not already well know.
Where do you run when society offers you no respite? When society tells you to remain in your deadend town / job? When you're betrayed by the very system you've worked, contributed and sometimes even fought for? If there's no safety rope in the cave when your torch goes out, you're only going to get lost and go deeper inside.
In regards to psychologists? Men have been told over the past 100 years that we're 'okay' being the way we are. Now we're seeing men crying for help and falling into damaging group like Tate and QAnon to at least feel SOMETHING will step up and help them. So we never reach out to psyche's because "Well, I'm okay" or even worse... that we believe they're part of the system that's caused the damage in the first place.
You're probably right. I never ask or tell anyone that it's their responsibility to fix these folks, cults are a nightmare to get people out of (and have been for centuries), and there are so few professionals who know how exactly to do that without burning yourself to the ground emotionally.
It's not yours or my responsibility to fix these people, but they are still people being guided by greedy, narcassistic, manipulative bastards to do whatever they want... usually because a system has failed them elsewhere. Don't fix, but do feel for them.
I'm sorry about your father man, that must have sucked to go through. That's for both this nuttiness AND the death.
I'd really argue otherwise for so many reasons. It's glib but the initial remark I made around "the past promised so much" sums it up nicely.
Sometimes I go back to my little town in the UK and it's bleak. There's little to do beyond sleep, drink, work, consume, repeat and I've spoken to old friends who sometimes mention offhand that things feel so broken to them and they don't know where to turn. I left and moved to London and have done exceptionally well for myself, but many of my old friends and mates just haven't... they're in the same cycle my father is in and there is no-where to turn. One lad is 41 and he's go knackered knees from working landscaping/gardening/driveways for the past 25 years of his life... the likelyhood is that he's going to lose his livelyhood because of this and he rents a three bed home and has very little savings due to Covid. He's screwed on so many levels and he's started turning to groups like this just to feel sympathy! (Because society goes, "WELL YOU SHOULD HAVE SAVED MORE!" whilst making him work 14 hour days and breaking his body for the few wealthy folks back home!)
I'm not saying that the system is broken and we're all two steps from a cultist... I'm saying there are massive contributing factors to the current "meh" in society that are leading people to search for ANYTHING that gives them purpose, sympathy and understanding for their suffering. Even if it's insane.
Sympathy costs you nothing. It's not your place to fix them, but recognising that they are just people (oft broken) can help not just them, but others around you. No matter how bloody hard that is (especially if your Dad went down that rabbit hole).
I should clarify two things right off the bat. Number one is that I'm not saying economic issues are not a part of it. Number two is that I'm not saying that I know for sure that these people in the article are mentally ill (though I assume that a number of them are since they are showing so many familiar symptoms), but I'm speaking about those who are. I wrote my earlier comment right when I woke up so I apologize if I came across the wrong way.
I wasted years of my life trying to help my father. It didn't help him one bit. The last of his working days were him working from his own business because he couldn't get along with others over long periods. I personally saw him constantly sabotaging his own business by mistreating people for imagined offenses. The problem for my father and others like him is not that society didn't help them, or the economic hardships they endured, but rather that they would always poison the relationships required to accept that help. My father was diagnosed not because his family would constantly tell him to go see a psychologist, but because he was given the ultimatum of being thrown out of his group home or getting a psychological evaluation. There are people who would have chosen to be thrown out instead.
I have no sympathy for this kind of person because I spent years sacrificing myself trying to help him. I remember vividly the exact moment when I realized that I had no more sympathy to spare for that man. Sympathy is not free. The price may be small, but it all adds up over time. I learned that the hard way.
My father is not the only person I have seen that acted this way. I had a coworker for a year or so who had the same symptoms. And I tried my hardest to sympathize with him. It sucked so much energy from me, and eventually I ran out of patience. There are so many subjects I asked him to stop talking to me about because I could not take his toxicity. But he was obsessed about it and would keep talking about it anyways. He was living with his childhood best friend at the start, but he ended up kicking him out because he committed the ultimate sin of attending a concert for a band he didn't like. As far as I know the only friend the man still had by the time he left my life was his dog, who was probably at the last year of her life. I can't help but feel sad about that. But I just can't stretch my sympathy to any more people like this.
No worries man, you came across fine!
I get that. Sounds like you're dad was made of nothing but fury against everyone for anything?
"Hurt people, Hurt people" isn't a dismissive towards this. But the dude was probably damaged and simply couldn't exist in any other state. Hell, I've been in a place where I self-isolate socially because my brain imploaded due to past pressures and current pressures happening all at once. I couldn't imagine living like that constantly without becoming a twisted version of a person who SHOULD be decent.
I get the 'value of effort' approach to this, I do. It's something I spent years with my family trying and eventually just went "Oh fuck it" and now I am happily a voluntary orphan at 35. I do not pity my family, I do not 'feel' personally for them or hold anything against them, they're just products of their upbringings and life-events that have gone untreated and unfixed. When I do think about them? I just kind of go "Man, it sucks for them to be stuck like that" and that's it. It's nothing more than that. There's no emotional hangover or feeling I carry forwards. But I've found it actually makes me a more empathic and caring person towards those I DO have in my life.
Again, nothing prescriptive, We each keep ourselves safe from shitty family and shitty situations in different ways.
It's a cold moment isn't it? I've described it to so many people who find out that I disowned my folks, and they never get it. Sorry you've had to go through the entire situ dude, it's not something I wish on anyone.
This has genuinely given me such a laugh as I know the EXACT type.
I don't know if it's emotive sympathy or just a good word. Like I said above? It's not your place to listen, live with or fix these folks. So a mental acknowledgement of "That sucks for them" might just give you your own peace towards them? I don't have to fix my family, it sucks they're stuck that way... but such is life.
No matter how much we think these people don't deserve sympathy, there's no-one I'd want to see taken advantage of by these leeches in QANON and the such. Luckily it's not so big in the UK, but we've got our own issues with conspiracy nuts and their ilk.
All of this said and done? Have a good Sunday mate.
I will just chime in to say I think "hurt people hurt people" as the bumper sticker saying it is, has a lot of problems, it's become a popular cliche but it's not always true, and I'm not even sure it's true in a majority of situations. So I think it's a harmful idea to spread.
Plenty of victims of abuse don't turn around and become perpetrators of that abuse later on and I think statements like this stigmatize or stereotype victims in a dangerous way- because it becomes a thought-terminating cliche that people can easily toss around and repeat it as if its some baseline truth
Then you're misreading or misunderstanding it.
If you're the victim of abuse and you're problematic because of it? It's spot on because you're hurt and you're hurting.
If you're the victim of abuse and you're working on yourself / being better then it doesn't relate as you're hurt but not hurting.
It's not perfect by any means. But it is extremely applicable to the vast majority of cases. It often helps the abused to look at their abuser and recognise that there maybe only avenue of logic to explain why they did what they did. Helped me when I worked through my problems ( I obsess over the reason, rationale and root cause of people problems) and helps many others to put an answer in dotted lines so they can move on.
I understand completely. My stepfather and one of my friends who I've known for years but only recently came back into contact with have fallen down the same hole; all of their problems seem to be someone else's fault. They espouse weirdo QAnon-adjacent views about shadow state conspiracies and more. Pick a demographic, they've probably got something hateful to say about it. The friend has become wrapped up in the MGTOW movement and blames women constantly about his lack of a dating/romance life. He wrote a self-published "book" that is mostly bizarre rambling that makes me wonder if he may have mental health issues. His mother passed away within the last year, and he's left taking care of his ailing father and their father's business among other things so that may be part of it as well.
I've tried to talk sense to both of them at different points, but it's like talking to a brick wall. Eventually I just gave up trying to be the voice of reason and left them to their own devices. There's only so far you can put yourself out there for others until you realize it's a forgone conclusion. I used to be afraid that I'd fall down the same hole, but even though my mental and physical health have gone done the tubes (working on fixing both), I'm at least grateful that I have a grip on reality still.
Tragic.
And the reality is? You're not equipped to be able to talk them out of anything they want to rationalise themselves into. If you're on fire, you'll throw water over yourself to put it out and stop suffering. If you're suffering, you'll eventually go out of your way to soothe whatever is making you suffer... even if it doesn't solve the initial suffering.
Self-awareness and 'knowing thyself' is a huge immuniser against thought like this.
I am so sorry to learn about your father, and I am certain it was not easy for you to follow his trajectory.
Declining mental facilities can play a big role as well.
My grandfather used to be very logical and no-nonsense, but starting in his 80s or so, he became vulnerable to really obvious scams and random myths that made no sense (e.g., he started telling me that I should eat brown eggs because they are healthier — and this coming from a man with a degree in agriculture). He fell down the MAGA hole around that same time period, and I believe the only reason he didn't go full QAnon was because his partner managed to draw him away from it, with great effort, and get him into healthier hobbies.
It was very sad to see him change so quickly from skeptical to gullible. He was still very intelligent in a book-smart kind of way (for example, he was still excelling at chess competitions), but he lost his ability to critically analyze information coming from authoritative-seeming sources.
He died about a week ago (and beat my dad at chess just a few days before that), and while I do miss him, I really miss who he used to be. It makes me so angry when I think about the scammers — Trump's campaign included — who told him lies to extract money from him while he was in such a vulnerable mental state.
That's definitly a problem unto itself isn't it?
Feels like there's a lot of failed system that just aren't protecting ourselves from ourselves when we're not... Ourselves (more coffee needed). The political crowd who waffle on about deregulation never realise how powerful it can be to protect folks who need it from these dreadful human beings.
I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather mate. Doing okay?
Yes, thank you. He was in his 90s and had a serious health problem, so we all knew it could happen at any time.
I agree, and it does bear repeating that bleak economic outlooks and lack of social mobility are at least as responsible as social media for the rise of the modern conspiracy movement.
Massively so. But generally that won't go said in big media pieces, because that challenges the status quo... which just throws fuel on the fire of this problem.
The past said that we'd have flying cars, work 16 hour weeks and enjoy our downtime better. Instead we're locked into capitalistic hellscapes that we're almost forced to accept as the only way.
No wonder people fall for insane, escapist, conspiracy theories like QAnon to explain the madness away.
I don’t buy that the broader landscape is quite so actually bleak, but it is heartening to see a recognition that these folks are not “crazy,” bit rather reacting to extraordinary circumstances.
In addition systemic failures imapcting these folks, I would bet real money most of these folks have significant trauma histories.
I've just said this in another thread.
Hurt people, hurt people. It's likely there's all sorts going on due to past systemtic failures to them and family units. It sucks all around.
But we can always offer sympathy and care to folks regardless of what they believe (insane or not).
I have to admit, I'm still a little baffled by how what started as a LARP on 8Chan (I remember when it began) managed to grow into this boomer-dominated movement.
I'll admit seeing this term gets my back up - largely because it's almost always used derisively - and because Im actually in that age group. But Id like to clarify that "boomers" is quite an old age group - from about age 58 to 75. And her followers are primarily NOT boomers at all.
Take a look at the pic of the people who are actually following this "queen" as shown in the article: https://video-images.vice.com/_uncategorized/1698935601704-screen-shot-2023-10-14-at-33814-pm.png?resize=1600:* There are two older white haired ladies on the right side that look like they could be 'boomer' age and a couple of men who look like they might have hit 58. But all of the other people in that pic look like they are more likely in the 25 to 57 age group and there is mention of kids being in the room, and those are not from the 'boomers'. If the article is accurate and attendance was 30 people then about 85% of her followers are younger than boomers.
So, more accurately, if one has to put a label on this person's followers, they are more accurately Millennials or Gen X. Not that it makes it any better to label ANY generation as more gullible than another, but I get tired of seeing "boomers" slagged for every bad thing that's happened in the world, or that we're stupidly out of touch with reality.
My partner and I are Millennials, but my partner is a tertiary teacher with mostly Zoomer students. A staggering percentage of them are somehow under the impression that he is a Boomer and they are Millennials.
Basically, the word "Millennial" is evolving to mean teen to young adult, and "Boomer" to mean pretty much anyone older than university age.
Do you know if Q is still posting these days? I heard he started posting again while he ran for congress.
The last Q drop was in June 2022, when Roe V. Wade was overturned (and prior to that, Q hadn't posted for 1.5 years.) And yeah, Ron Watkins ran for congress in August 2022, receiving a whopping 4% of the votes.
Edit: Apparently Google led me astray, all the articles in the results said that the June 2022 drops were the last ones, but when I went straight to the source, I see that there were also some drops in November 2022.
Conservatives have always been about clinging to the status quo...it's kinda their thing.
The real transformation happened in the wake of the civil rights movements from 1950ish to 1970ish. That's when they realized they were losing the culture wars. It's part of why The Drug War became so central to suppressing dissidents and minorities. They coalesced around Guns and God, and the partisainship blossomed from there. By honing in so hard on those single issues (liberals stealing your guns and godless atheists letting women kill babies), they got a solid core of single-issue voters that ignore anything else they do.
And yes, the 90's is when they really started turning the screws on the partisianship. But the Heiritage foundation dates back to 1981, and they've been pushing nasty agendas my whole life.
Trump was never an anomoly. He was just Reagan 2.0.
Related post about more of Didulo and her follower's shenanigans from my neck of the woods last year:
QAnon protesters attempted to arrest Peterborough police officers over Canada's COVID-19 vaccine rollout. Peterborough's Mayor tweets a message to them: 'F--- off, you f---wads'
Two things. Firstly it irritates me that the leave out it’s an abandoned school in the caption of the first pic. We all know that a lot of people only read the headline and this caption and it seems intentional misleading.
Second I have this weird envious feeling about what this small tight knit community is rallying around. It really makes them come together towards a greater purpose and you feel that in the article. I wonder where it leaves this community when/if they manage to drive these nuts out of town and (what I really liked about this) prevent it from happening again.
I did not read the article, only the headline. But as someone whose father (74) is a QAnon believer, I really hope the locals fight back and win. Fuck Q.