A few months ago Georgia launched a site that allows anyone to cancel a voter registration as long as a few personal details are known. If you go to the site, it appears that it only needs the...
A few months ago Georgia launched a site that allows anyone to cancel a voter registration as long as a few personal details are known.
If you go to the site, it appears that it only needs the person's name, date of birth, and county. Apparently there is a next page that requires a few other fields such as partial Social Security number or driver's license.
It seems to me that this was created with malicious intent. First of all, the page highlights "Voter Fraud" which is always played up by Repubicans but is actually rare. More important, it seems obvious that this will be used to unregister people without their permission and affect elections.
Am I understanding this correctly? Perhaps others know more about this and the risks.
What's on that next page is important. Requiring the last four digits of your social or your driver's license number is already all the ID you need to request an absentee ballot (at least in my...
What's on that next page is important. Requiring the last four digits of your social or your driver's license number is already all the ID you need to request an absentee ballot (at least in my state), and it does make it significantly less likely that a complete stranger would be able to cancel your registration.
Unless, of course, they have that from any of the numerous PII leaks that have happened absolutely everywhere all the time. If anything, everyone should be concerned about the possibility without...
Unless, of course, they have that from any of the numerous PII leaks that have happened absolutely everywhere all the time.
If anything, everyone should be concerned about the possibility without in person verification for cancelling.
This very Georgia site was brought up after a large leak over the summer. It was probably the National Public Data breach with PII of over 2.5 billion people across the US, Canada and UK. It...
This very Georgia site was brought up after a large leak over the summer. It was probably the National Public Data breach with PII of over 2.5 billion people across the US, Canada and UK. It included SSNs of US citizens, and the whole thing was dumped publicly on the internet.
If one obtains a set of SSNs paired with names and other relevant data, it's probably an afternoon of work to wrangle that into a useful format and write a script that can automate requests to the deregistration site.
You don't even need to get fancy and try to identify party affiliation: if you have an address, you can just deregister names in districts that historically vote for the other party.
This is a major opening for tampering, and I suspect it's intentional. Georgia has already been called out for being a risk for election issues. They've recently instituted new rules empowering local "investigations" into election validity that are likely to be used to hand Trump a win. The goal is to cast doubt on the results, and we already lived through this debacle a few years ago; it's not like it's a new idea...
Georgia requires a photo ID to vote. And they don't take just any old photo ID. I had to get a US passport earlier this year in order to request an absentee ballot because I don't have a...
Georgia requires a photo ID to vote.
And they don't take just any old photo ID. I had to get a US passport earlier this year in order to request an absentee ballot because I don't have a Georgia-issued driver's license, and they wouldn't accept any of my other IDs.
Canceling voter registration should require the same proof of identity as voting.
I agree with this, but I also don't think Georgia should require photo ID to vote (and in fact would prefer if states were prevented from requiring such things).
Canceling voter registration should require the same proof of identity as voting.
I agree with this, but I also don't think Georgia should require photo ID to vote (and in fact would prefer if states were prevented from requiring such things).
I'll direct you to people smarter than me writing about why photo ID laws are bad for voting rights -- here's the ACLU's fact sheet. The TLDR is that they are discriminatory, costly, and don't...
I'll direct you to people smarter than me writing about why photo ID laws are bad for voting rights -- here's the ACLU's fact sheet. The TLDR is that they are discriminatory, costly, and don't actually solve any real problems.
Illinois doesn't! (It's helpful to bring as a quick confirmation in case of issues but it's not necessary) Getting an ID is often difficult and expensive for people - if you're poor, homeless,...
Illinois doesn't! (It's helpful to bring as a quick confirmation in case of issues but it's not necessary)
Getting an ID is often difficult and expensive for people - if you're poor, homeless, rural, don't have transportation to the DMV/SoS office during often business hours, recently incarcerated, etc. it can be quite difficult to navigate all the paperwork requirements, especially for Real IDs. Some states have overcome those challenges well. Some actively make it harder to get identification.
Requiring photo ID at the polls is an unnecessary barrier to voting. Registration already requires you to have had an ID at some point even if it isn't current. And what confirmation does it provide that the signature doesn't? Plus we don't see that kind of voter fraud in more than single digits across the country. It's inefficient and only a bogeyman.
Not the person you asked, but photo IDs usually aren't free. Requiring them is effectively a poll tax. The people who don't have drivers licenses or passports are more likely to belong to...
Not the person you asked, but photo IDs usually aren't free. Requiring them is effectively a poll tax. The people who don't have drivers licenses or passports are more likely to belong to marginalized communities.
Per the Georgia DDS website you can get a free ID "if qualified" but I'm going in circles trying to find out how to qualify. Voting shouldn't require these hoops. What problem is being solved here that the problems inherent in requiring photo ID are worth adding to the equation?
Yeah, the site is a disaster. Especially after events like the National Public Data breach, all the information they require to unregister someone is publicly available on the internet. For the...
Yeah, the site is a disaster. Especially after events like the National Public Data breach, all the information they require to unregister someone is publicly available on the internet.
For the kind of people who could unregister people en masse, that information is trivially accessible for (and I'm not exaggerating) hundreds of thousands of Georgians after the NPD breach alone. I mentioned it near the end of my comment in the NPD breach topic:
Finally, RIP Georgia voter registrations:
To submit a cancellation request, users just need a few identifying details: A first initial, last name, county, date of birth, and the driver’s license number or last four digits of the Social Security number for the voter whose registration they are seeking to cancel.
Every state is (as far as I understand) required to allow voters to unregister if they want to (which I think is dumb personally, and I also believe voting should be mandatory). Here's the Election Assistance Commision's webpage that links to every state's website or form for unregistering:
Wouldn't this be a violation of the first amendment? If someone doesn't like any of the choices offered and there isn't a write-in option then mandatory voting would essentially be compelling...
I also believe voting should be mandatory)
Wouldn't this be a violation of the first amendment? If someone doesn't like any of the choices offered and there isn't a write-in option then mandatory voting would essentially be compelling someone to support (associate) with something against their will.
Edit: Rather than reply to everyone, I'll add this here:
My thought process was mandatory voting would mean you have to pick someone in each race on the ballot. If mandatory voting just means submitting a ballot but they don't check if you left it blank or not then I get it. But if you are forced to vote and therefore forced to pick from a selection of people you don't want then that could be a violation of freedom of association. Open write-ins would make it fine since that wouldn't mean you would be required to pick someone you don't want.
In countries like Australia with mandatory voting, there's no punishment for what is marked on the ballot, merely a requirement that you do submit a ballot. That's not compelling any speech at...
In countries like Australia with mandatory voting, there's no punishment for what is marked on the ballot, merely a requirement that you do submit a ballot. That's not compelling any speech at all. No one is forced to support anyone.
And, as it turns out, write-in votes are illegal in Georgia. Meaning, the write-in candidate(s) are not legally allowed to assume office in the event they achieve a majority from balloting. Don't...
And, as it turns out, write-in votes are illegal in Georgia. Meaning, the write-in candidate(s) are not legally allowed to assume office in the event they achieve a majority from balloting.
Don't want the citizens getting any ideas. Comply, comply.
Thats...not how I'm reading that law. It just says that a write-in candidate has to file their intention to run as a write-in before 7 days after the end of the qualifying period. So you couldn't...
Thats...not how I'm reading that law. It just says that a write-in candidate has to file their intention to run as a write-in before 7 days after the end of the qualifying period. So you couldn't elect someone via write-in who hadn't filed, but someone who is running a write-in campaign is fine. Although it looks like they don't allow a candidate who ran in a primary to file as a write-in candidate in the general election, so that would exclude something like Lisa Murkowski's write-in campaign in 2010.
I completely understand that this can be used for malicious intent, but I am personally grateful for this site. As a former resident of Georgia who has not been able to convince the state that I...
I completely understand that this can be used for malicious intent, but I am personally grateful for this site. As a former resident of Georgia who has not been able to convince the state that I haven't lived there for 10 years, this may actually be useful for me. I have been called for jury duty 3 times since moving to another state, have submitted the required paperwork each time to prove I am no longer a resident, and yet they have sent notices to my parent's house stating I failed to attend jury duty and requiring me to be at a hearing to explain why I failed to attend (and possibly be fined or jailed as well). Plus I keep getting political spam texts and calls for the state I'm currently living in and Georgia.
Jury duty, at least, is connected to your voter registration iirc, so this should at least theoretically help with that. I live in Germany but still got called twice for jury duty because I'm...
Jury duty, at least, is connected to your voter registration iirc, so this should at least theoretically help with that. I live in Germany but still got called twice for jury duty because I'm registered to vote in Ohio. In my case, they did not make me show up when I contacted them via email and asked to be excused, though they did reserve the right to call me for jury duty in the future since I'm a registered voter in their district.
In Georgia it's tied to voter registration and drivers license registration. I mailed in my license when I moved so I'm pretty sure they reference both lists and if they see your name on at least...
In Georgia it's tied to voter registration and drivers license registration. I mailed in my license when I moved so I'm pretty sure they reference both lists and if they see your name on at least one, you get added to the potential juror pool.
In Florida I was told that jury duty is connected to your driver's license, not to your voter registration. I was told I need to relinquish my Florida license or I'll still be summoned for jury...
In Florida I was told that jury duty is connected to your driver's license, not to your voter registration. I was told I need to relinquish my Florida license or I'll still be summoned for jury duty. I have been told many wrong things by Florida officials, though.
I'm still curious if this step of using the website actually helped. If there's a potential upside, I want to know if it works.
Well, to answer this question - no, it did nothing. I'm still getting texts and calls to make sure I'm registered in GA, to early vote, to mail in vote, etc. It was worth the try.
Well, to answer this question - no, it did nothing. I'm still getting texts and calls to make sure I'm registered in GA, to early vote, to mail in vote, etc. It was worth the try.
Interesting, I used to live in Georgia but now live in Canada and had jury duty summons. I mailed them a form with an explanation of why I was unable to attend and have never heard anything since....
Interesting, I used to live in Georgia but now live in Canada and had jury duty summons. I mailed them a form with an explanation of why I was unable to attend and have never heard anything since. I suppose if I get a second summons though, that will further prove how inept the state can sometimes be... I'm still registered to vote so hopefully it's not tied to that.
Yeah I emailed the form and have a confirmation email that states I'm excused. I still have that confirmation as proof, just in case. Jury duty in GA is tied to voter registration and drivers...
Yeah I emailed the form and have a confirmation email that states I'm excused. I still have that confirmation as proof, just in case. Jury duty in GA is tied to voter registration and drivers license registration, so there are multiple lists they reference.
I’m wondering what they do with the form submissions? More verification could be done, in theory. I think bulk requests could be detected pretty easily? What they do on the back end, if anything,...
I’m wondering what they do with the form submissions? More verification could be done, in theory. I think bulk requests could be detected pretty easily?
What they do on the back end, if anything, seems pretty opaque.
Maybe compare with a letter in the mail. How would they verify that?
I'd like to provide another perspective on this - the next page on the site does require a partial SSN / ID number, which is more than a stranger or even most of those close to you would probably...
I'd like to provide another perspective on this - the next page on the site does require a partial SSN / ID number, which is more than a stranger or even most of those close to you would probably know.
I recently moved out of Colorado (not because I didn't love it there - I grew up there and I'd love to go back!) and the process for canceling my registration there was the exact same. And CO has been doing automatic mail in ballots for everybody since well before COVID.
The other "info" on the page about voter fraud and whatnot, however, is a different question.
Please see this other reply to the post, apparently the SSN / ID info was leaked so this isn't secure. https://tildes.net/~misc/1j6g/georgia_voter_cancellation_site#comment-dre6 Any government...
Please see this other reply to the post, apparently the SSN / ID info was leaked so this isn't secure.
Any government agency should know that SSN is not a secure key and should not make it so easy to unregister someone using info that was in a very famous leak. It's not just gross incompetence, they were told that it was insecure and they still have it. That's why I consider it malicious and basically an enabler of election fraud.
Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. That does make this more concerning. I would hope the amount of people or organizations willing to risk a felony to unregister people is low, but of course you...
Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. That does make this more concerning. I would hope the amount of people or organizations willing to risk a felony to unregister people is low, but of course you can't count on that, and once the damage is done it's done...
A few months ago Georgia launched a site that allows anyone to cancel a voter registration as long as a few personal details are known.
If you go to the site, it appears that it only needs the person's name, date of birth, and county. Apparently there is a next page that requires a few other fields such as partial Social Security number or driver's license.
It seems to me that this was created with malicious intent. First of all, the page highlights "Voter Fraud" which is always played up by Repubicans but is actually rare. More important, it seems obvious that this will be used to unregister people without their permission and affect elections.
Am I understanding this correctly? Perhaps others know more about this and the risks.
Here is a post from a television station that has some more details: https://www.9news.com/article/news/verify/elections-verify/yes-georgia-launched-a-voter-registration-cancellation-website-fact-check/536-0fe200b5-93f7-4b23-b8e9-e582de8c605d
What's on that next page is important. Requiring the last four digits of your social or your driver's license number is already all the ID you need to request an absentee ballot (at least in my state), and it does make it significantly less likely that a complete stranger would be able to cancel your registration.
Unless, of course, they have that from any of the numerous PII leaks that have happened absolutely everywhere all the time.
If anything, everyone should be concerned about the possibility without in person verification for cancelling.
This very Georgia site was brought up after a large leak over the summer. It was probably the National Public Data breach with PII of over 2.5 billion people across the US, Canada and UK. It included SSNs of US citizens, and the whole thing was dumped publicly on the internet.
If one obtains a set of SSNs paired with names and other relevant data, it's probably an afternoon of work to wrangle that into a useful format and write a script that can automate requests to the deregistration site.
You don't even need to get fancy and try to identify party affiliation: if you have an address, you can just deregister names in districts that historically vote for the other party.
This is a major opening for tampering, and I suspect it's intentional. Georgia has already been called out for being a risk for election issues. They've recently instituted new rules empowering local "investigations" into election validity that are likely to be used to hand Trump a win. The goal is to cast doubt on the results, and we already lived through this debacle a few years ago; it's not like it's a new idea...
Georgia requires a photo ID to vote.
And they don't take just any old photo ID. I had to get a US passport earlier this year in order to request an absentee ballot because I don't have a Georgia-issued driver's license, and they wouldn't accept any of my other IDs.
Canceling voter registration should require the same proof of identity as voting.
I agree with this, but I also don't think Georgia should require photo ID to vote (and in fact would prefer if states were prevented from requiring such things).
Why?
I'll direct you to people smarter than me writing about why photo ID laws are bad for voting rights -- here's the ACLU's fact sheet. The TLDR is that they are discriminatory, costly, and don't actually solve any real problems.
Illinois doesn't! (It's helpful to bring as a quick confirmation in case of issues but it's not necessary)
Getting an ID is often difficult and expensive for people - if you're poor, homeless, rural, don't have transportation to the DMV/SoS office during often business hours, recently incarcerated, etc. it can be quite difficult to navigate all the paperwork requirements, especially for Real IDs. Some states have overcome those challenges well. Some actively make it harder to get identification.
Requiring photo ID at the polls is an unnecessary barrier to voting. Registration already requires you to have had an ID at some point even if it isn't current. And what confirmation does it provide that the signature doesn't? Plus we don't see that kind of voter fraud in more than single digits across the country. It's inefficient and only a bogeyman.
Not the person you asked, but photo IDs usually aren't free. Requiring them is effectively a poll tax. The people who don't have drivers licenses or passports are more likely to belong to marginalized communities.
Per the Georgia DDS website you can get a free ID "if qualified" but I'm going in circles trying to find out how to qualify. Voting shouldn't require these hoops. What problem is being solved here that the problems inherent in requiring photo ID are worth adding to the equation?
Yeah, the site is a disaster. Especially after events like the National Public Data breach, all the information they require to unregister someone is publicly available on the internet.
For the kind of people who could unregister people en masse, that information is trivially accessible for (and I'm not exaggerating) hundreds of thousands of Georgians after the NPD breach alone. I mentioned it near the end of my comment in the NPD breach topic:
Every state is (as far as I understand) required to allow voters to unregister if they want to (which I think is dumb personally, and I also believe voting should be mandatory). Here's the Election Assistance Commision's webpage that links to every state's website or form for unregistering:
Pretty much all states require the same basic information to unregister someone.
Check your voter registration regularly.
Wouldn't this be a violation of the first amendment? If someone doesn't like any of the choices offered and there isn't a write-in option then mandatory voting would essentially be compelling someone to support (associate) with something against their will.
Edit: Rather than reply to everyone, I'll add this here:
My thought process was mandatory voting would mean you have to pick someone in each race on the ballot. If mandatory voting just means submitting a ballot but they don't check if you left it blank or not then I get it. But if you are forced to vote and therefore forced to pick from a selection of people you don't want then that could be a violation of freedom of association. Open write-ins would make it fine since that wouldn't mean you would be required to pick someone you don't want.
In countries like Australia with mandatory voting, there's no punishment for what is marked on the ballot, merely a requirement that you do submit a ballot. That's not compelling any speech at all. No one is forced to support anyone.
No, you can always spoil your ballot, especially with secret voting. You just have to submit a ballot. You can draw dickbutts all over it if you want.
And, as it turns out, write-in votes are illegal in Georgia. Meaning, the write-in candidate(s) are not legally allowed to assume office in the event they achieve a majority from balloting.
Don't want the citizens getting any ideas. Comply, comply.
Thats...not how I'm reading that law. It just says that a write-in candidate has to file their intention to run as a write-in before 7 days after the end of the qualifying period. So you couldn't elect someone via write-in who hadn't filed, but someone who is running a write-in campaign is fine. Although it looks like they don't allow a candidate who ran in a primary to file as a write-in candidate in the general election, so that would exclude something like Lisa Murkowski's write-in campaign in 2010.
I completely understand that this can be used for malicious intent, but I am personally grateful for this site. As a former resident of Georgia who has not been able to convince the state that I haven't lived there for 10 years, this may actually be useful for me. I have been called for jury duty 3 times since moving to another state, have submitted the required paperwork each time to prove I am no longer a resident, and yet they have sent notices to my parent's house stating I failed to attend jury duty and requiring me to be at a hearing to explain why I failed to attend (and possibly be fined or jailed as well). Plus I keep getting political spam texts and calls for the state I'm currently living in and Georgia.
Did the site actually solve any of these issues for you?
It said I was removed. I don't know a way to test except to wait and see if I get summoned again.
Has the political spam at least stopped?
I got a spam phone call that I declined. But that could have been for my current state. No texts, so that's a plus!
Jury duty, at least, is connected to your voter registration iirc, so this should at least theoretically help with that. I live in Germany but still got called twice for jury duty because I'm registered to vote in Ohio. In my case, they did not make me show up when I contacted them via email and asked to be excused, though they did reserve the right to call me for jury duty in the future since I'm a registered voter in their district.
In Georgia it's tied to voter registration and drivers license registration. I mailed in my license when I moved so I'm pretty sure they reference both lists and if they see your name on at least one, you get added to the potential juror pool.
In Florida I was told that jury duty is connected to your driver's license, not to your voter registration. I was told I need to relinquish my Florida license or I'll still be summoned for jury duty. I have been told many wrong things by Florida officials, though.
I'm still curious if this step of using the website actually helped. If there's a potential upside, I want to know if it works.
Well, I did give up my Ohio driver's license prior to getting summoned for jury duty, so I can at least confirm that's not how they do it there!
Well, to answer this question - no, it did nothing. I'm still getting texts and calls to make sure I'm registered in GA, to early vote, to mail in vote, etc. It was worth the try.
Interesting, I used to live in Georgia but now live in Canada and had jury duty summons. I mailed them a form with an explanation of why I was unable to attend and have never heard anything since. I suppose if I get a second summons though, that will further prove how inept the state can sometimes be... I'm still registered to vote so hopefully it's not tied to that.
Yeah I emailed the form and have a confirmation email that states I'm excused. I still have that confirmation as proof, just in case. Jury duty in GA is tied to voter registration and drivers license registration, so there are multiple lists they reference.
I’m wondering what they do with the form submissions? More verification could be done, in theory. I think bulk requests could be detected pretty easily?
What they do on the back end, if anything, seems pretty opaque.
Maybe compare with a letter in the mail. How would they verify that?
I'd like to provide another perspective on this - the next page on the site does require a partial SSN / ID number, which is more than a stranger or even most of those close to you would probably know.
I recently moved out of Colorado (not because I didn't love it there - I grew up there and I'd love to go back!) and the process for canceling my registration there was the exact same. And CO has been doing automatic mail in ballots for everybody since well before COVID.
The other "info" on the page about voter fraud and whatnot, however, is a different question.
Please see this other reply to the post, apparently the SSN / ID info was leaked so this isn't secure.
https://tildes.net/~misc/1j6g/georgia_voter_cancellation_site#comment-dre6
Any government agency should know that SSN is not a secure key and should not make it so easy to unregister someone using info that was in a very famous leak. It's not just gross incompetence, they were told that it was insecure and they still have it. That's why I consider it malicious and basically an enabler of election fraud.
Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. That does make this more concerning. I would hope the amount of people or organizations willing to risk a felony to unregister people is low, but of course you can't count on that, and once the damage is done it's done...