22 votes

Men Cause 100% of Unwanted Pregnancies

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45 comments

  1. [3]
    Grzmot
    (edited )
    Link
    This has to do a lot with time. Back when the pill was invented and subsequently made legal, a lot of these side effects were ignored or weren't known because people really wanted to have the damn...

    Discouragingly, a promising study on a new male contraceptive was canceled in large part due to… (wait for it)… side effects. To be clear, this list of side effects was about one-third as long as the known side effects for commonly used women’s contraception. There’s a lot to unpack in that story alone. I’ll simply point out that, as a society, we really don’t mind if women suffer, physically or mentally, as long as it makes things easier for men.

    This has to do a lot with time. Back when the pill was invented and subsequently made legal, a lot of these side effects were ignored or weren't known because people really wanted to have the damn thing.

    Additionally, I don't know how to deal with the aggressive tone of the article. Considering the sensitive subject, it generalizes a lot. Men are barely a collective. And yet the article goes on and calls out all men, accusing us of rather vile things.

    If and when a man becomes a responsible adult, finds a mate, and wants to have a baby, the vasectomy can be reversed and then redone once the childbearing stage is over.

    Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhh... Considering how much this lady is accusing of not caring for women, she's looked surprisingly little into vasectomies. Her idea is a good way of putting quite a significant cost on couples and also vasectomy reversal success rate ranges from 55% to 25% depending on how long has passed since the surgery. Completely ignoring the fact that she wants every male at 18 (I guess, even though people start having sex way earlier) to undergo a completely unnecessary surgery with of course. They way the idea is phrased I'm fairly certain it's not serious though and simply a metaphor to illustrate how women's bodies are policed in the US today. But perhaps I'm giving her too much credit because if the article is satire, it's not written very well.

    Following her logic of putting the blame all on one sex, we could turn around and claim that 100% of all unwanted pregnancies are caused by women because shocker, unwanted pregnancies are a subsection of pregnancies and we couldn't have those without women, could we?

    I'm fairly certain Poe's law applies to this article pretty heavily. There are some good points hidden in there, but buried by a pile of inflammatory bullshit which makes me think that it just might be satire. If the author is serious, she's quite the hypocrite.

    50 votes
    1. nic
      Link Parent
      If her knowledge is representative of the average American's, then Americas sex education is failing the country. According to the United Nations' 2013 report, only nine countries in the world...

      she's looked surprisingly little into vasectomies

      If her knowledge is representative of the average American's, then Americas sex education is failing the country.

      According to the United Nations' 2013 report, only nine countries in the world have a higher reported abortion rate than the United States.

      Seems like the two might be related.

      3 votes
    2. teaearlgraycold
      Link Parent
      Certainly more unwanted pregnancies are the fault of a man than of a woman. But to removal all culpability from women is delusional.

      Certainly more unwanted pregnancies are the fault of a man than of a woman. But to removal all culpability from women is delusional.

      1 vote
  2. [23]
    unknown user
    Link
    I am all for abortion w/o any strings attached and there are many arguments for it, but this one is total BS. Which is evident from the fact that the only thing that supports the title is a...

    I am all for abortion w/o any strings attached and there are many arguments for it, but this one is total BS. Which is evident from the fact that the only thing that supports the title is a thought experiment. Now most, or even all unintended pregnancies may be caused by men, but it'd take some research to confirm the latter and the former is rather obvious but still.

    This sort of agressive, sexist BS will help no-one. There are many pro-life women out there, and many that fail at contrception. Condoms protect men as much as women against STDs, and there are women's condoms out there.

    There are educational issues regarding contraceptive use and consent, and they need resolving. Shitting on all the men with this stilnovo angel-woman attitude won't help with any of that.

    30 votes
    1. [20]
      Algernon_Asimov
      Link Parent
      It's not sexist to point out that the discussion about sexual health, birth control, and abortion, is ultimately biassed against women. It's women who are always held responsible for the...

      It's not sexist to point out that the discussion about sexual health, birth control, and abortion, is ultimately biassed against women. It's women who are always held responsible for the pregnancy, it's women who have to make the choice about whether to keep the baby or have an abortion, it's women who have to endure the pregnancy and the birth, it's women who are treated like criminals if they have an abortion. Where are the men in this discussion? Why are men not being held responsible for their part in this issue?

      Men have much more control over where, when, and how they ejaculate than women do. Men are responsible for where they deposit their sperm, and should be held responsible for the consequences of their ejaculation. Women don't just magic up unwanted pregnancies out of thin air!

      This article points out the unseen bias in all our discussions about abortion and pregnancy and who's responsible for what. Men are barely in the picture; almost all the focus is on women. However, men play an important role in creating unwanted pregnancies, and should play a similarly important role in preventing them. If men had to face similar consequences to their sexual choices that women face, the issue would be addressed much differently.

      23 votes
      1. [2]
        Wes
        Link Parent
        I'm a little perturbed that this is included on a bullet list for why men suck. I'd certainly like to be involved in the discussion. It's out of respect that I would yield that decision to my...

        it's women who have to make the choice about whether to keep the baby or have an abortion

        I'm a little perturbed that this is included on a bullet list for why men suck. I'd certainly like to be involved in the discussion. It's out of respect that I would yield that decision to my partner. You make it sound like it's out of disinterest, and that's not fair at all.

        21 votes
        1. Algernon_Asimov
          Link Parent
          I didn't include it in a bullet list for why men suck. I'm not even sure I was making the point at all that men suck. I'm not sure how you got that from what I wrote. Maybe you could help me out...

          I'm a little perturbed that this is included on a bullet list for why men suck.

          I didn't include it in a bullet list for why men suck. I'm not even sure I was making the point at all that men suck. I'm not sure how you got that from what I wrote. Maybe you could help me out by pointing out exactly where I said, or even implied, that men suck? (And then let's have a discussion about why discussing the rights of women is often misinterpreted as an attack on men...)

          My point is that society at large places most of the responsibility for pregnancies, and therefore abortions, on women, while men seem to be missing in action. Most discussions about unwanted pregnancies and abortions focus on the role, responsibilities, and rights of women. Men are also responsible for unwanted pregnancies (maybe not the 100% in the title, but still a lot), but there's a lot less talk about men's role in preventing unwanted pregnancies or dealing with them.

          On a slightly related note, let's remember that women who have lots of sex are dirty sluts while men who have lots of sex are respected studs. But who are those "studs" having sex with?

          There's a definite double standard in our society about sex and pregnancy and responsibility.

          5 votes
      2. Greg
        Link Parent
        I want to start by saying I absolutely agree on this point - but the people pushing this viewpoint aren't divided by gender, they are divided by political viewpoint. Campaigning alongside the...

        It's not sexist to point out that the discussion about sexual health, birth control, and abortion, is ultimately biassed against women.

        I want to start by saying I absolutely agree on this point - but the people pushing this viewpoint aren't divided by gender, they are divided by political viewpoint.

        Where are the men in this discussion?

        Campaigning alongside the women for equality. Donating their own time and money in the hope of a safe, lasting male contraceptive. Voting for politicians who support safe and effective reproductive health policies. Crying with despair as all of that is torn down and ignored by regressive, sexist politicians who we tried to stop.

        11 votes
      3. [4]
        Diff
        Link Parent
        I think the author gets a little too swept up in righteous fury to actually make a convincing argument about it. They really go over the top with... everything. They're not wrong (well, mostly),...

        I think the author gets a little too swept up in righteous fury to actually make a convincing argument about it. They really go over the top with... everything. They're not wrong (well, mostly), they're just going about it in a way that only preaches to the choir.

        10 votes
        1. Algernon_Asimov
          Link Parent
          I found the article eye-opening. I accept that it's somewhat hyperbolic, but, as you say, she's not actually wrong.

          I found the article eye-opening. I accept that it's somewhat hyperbolic, but, as you say, she's not actually wrong.

          5 votes
        2. [2]
          Kraetos
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          I dunno what your intentions are with this comment but "her argument was too emotional" is a bad look.

          I dunno what your intentions are with this comment but "her argument was too emotional" is a bad look.

          3 votes
          1. Diff
            Link Parent
            Not too emotional, too preachy. Phrased in a way that only people who already vehemently agree with her wouldn't be instantly turned off. Bad way to make a persuasive argument.

            Not too emotional, too preachy. Phrased in a way that only people who already vehemently agree with her wouldn't be instantly turned off. Bad way to make a persuasive argument.

            10 votes
      4. [3]
        Papaya
        Link Parent
        Both men and women are responsible for using contraception or not using it. If the woman wants the man to wear a condom and he doesn't want to, they can either compromise or she can simply not...

        Both men and women are responsible for using contraception or not using it. If the woman wants the man to wear a condom and he doesn't want to, they can either compromise or she can simply not have intercourse with him.

        Also, men suffer big consequences from their sexual choices. How about when both people don't use protection, the woman gets pregnant, the man doesn't want the baby, she wants to keep it, he has to pay for her and the baby that he didn't want in the first place ?

        8 votes
        1. [2]
          nic
          Link Parent
          The author covers that, by claiming 39% of required payments are not made.

          The author covers that, by claiming 39% of required payments are not made.

          2 votes
          1. AugustusFerdinand
            Link Parent
            Which in her source she fails to address: It's not that simple. Of the women who are supposed to pay child support 61% do not. The data is nearly a decade old.

            Which in her source she fails to address:

            1. It's not that simple.
            2. Of the women who are supposed to pay child support 61% do not.
            3. The data is nearly a decade old.
            5 votes
      5. babypuncher
        Link Parent
        I thought the whole point of the pro-choice movement is that it should be the women's choice and not anyone else's. If I get my partner pregnant, I'm sure she would ask for my opinion and input,...

        it's women who have to make the choice about whether to keep the baby or have an abortion

        I thought the whole point of the pro-choice movement is that it should be the women's choice and not anyone else's. If I get my partner pregnant, I'm sure she would ask for my opinion and input, but ultimately the decision to have or not have the child is hers.

        it's women who have to endure the pregnancy and the birth

        This isn't sexism, it's biology. If we really want to "blame" someone for this basic fact, go back 1.2 billion years ago and start getting mad at the first life form to evolve sexual reproduction.

        it's women who are treated like criminals if they have an abortion

        This behavior is inexcusable. I genuinely wish we could ban public demonstrations outside abortion clinics, because no woman should ever have to go through that kind of treatment when making what is often an emotional and difficult decision.

        This whole article just reeks of railing against men as a collective, which is unfair and not a productive way to move forward. All it does is anger men who aren't part of the problem and give ammunition to those who like to paint feminism as a radical ideology.

        8 votes
      6. unknown user
        Link Parent
        Yeah that is not inherently sexist, but this article is.

        It's not sexist to point out that the discussion about sexual health, birth control, and abortion, is ultimately biassed against women.

        Yeah that is not inherently sexist, but this article is.

        6 votes
      7. [5]
        Octofox
        Link Parent
        So you think men should be able to make the final choice to abort the baby?

        So you think men should be able to make the final choice to abort the baby?

        5 votes
        1. [4]
          Algernon_Asimov
          Link Parent
          Not necessarily the final choice, but they should certainly have to be involved in the decision. Why is it mostly women who have deal with the consequences of an act that, by its very nature,...

          Not necessarily the final choice, but they should certainly have to be involved in the decision. Why is it mostly women who have deal with the consequences of an act that, by its very nature, requires a man to be involved to make it happen?

          And, if we take a step back... instead of being involved in choosing how to deal with an unwanted pregnancy after it's already happened, they could be involved in choosing how to prevent the unwanted pregnancy before it happens.

          1. [3]
            AugustusFerdinand
            Link Parent
            Which has seen it's own pushback when men state they want a say in the matter. It's a very fine line to walk between "involved" and being in control of the process. How do you propose that a man...

            but they should certainly have to be involved in the decision

            Which has seen it's own pushback when men state they want a say in the matter. It's a very fine line to walk between "involved" and being in control of the process.

            How do you propose that a man can be involved in an abortion decision where he sees it as an unwanted pregnancy and she does not?

            5 votes
            1. [2]
              Algernon_Asimov
              Link Parent
              If a man doesn't want a pregnancy and his female sexual partner does, then it's on him to take the necessary steps to prevent that unwanted pregnancy, to avoid getting involved in the difficult...

              If a man doesn't want a pregnancy and his female sexual partner does, then it's on him to take the necessary steps to prevent that unwanted pregnancy, to avoid getting involved in the difficult discussions after the fact.

              However, if he uses a condom and she still falls pregnant, and he wants the baby but she doesn't, then, in effect, it becomes a surrogacy arrangement: she's gestating a baby for someone else's benefit. He signs an iron-clan contract up front saying he will take the baby after birth and raise it on his own, without requiring or expecting any support from her ever. He pays all her medical expenses while she's pregnant. He compensates her for any lost income while she takes time off work. He buys all her maternity clothes. And so on. If he wants the baby, then he does as much work for it as he is able to do, short of actually being pregnant.

              1 vote
              1. AugustusFerdinand
                Link Parent
                Doesn't exist and the courts have said so time and again when men have signed contracts to give up all parental rights and still hit with mandatory child support payments. I like how your scenario...

                He signs an iron-clan contract up front saying he will take the baby after birth and raise it on his own, without requiring or expecting any support from her ever.

                Doesn't exist and the courts have said so time and again when men have signed contracts to give up all parental rights and still hit with mandatory child support payments.

                I like how your scenario completely ignores the fact that men have been trapped into unwanted pregnancies daily. From condom thieves, condom pokers, liars about birth control status, to male rape. Just them menfolk's fault.

                3 votes
      8. [2]
        papasquat
        Link Parent
        Are you implying that men should be responsible for deciding whether or not to abort pregnancies? That seems... backwards.

        it's women who have to make the choice about whether to keep the baby or have an abortion, it's women who have to endure the pregnancy and the birth, it's women who are treated like criminals if they have an abortion. Where are the men in this discussion? Why are men not being held responsible for their part in this issue?

        Are you implying that men should be responsible for deciding whether or not to abort pregnancies? That seems... backwards.

        2 votes
        1. Algernon_Asimov
          Link Parent
          Men should be more responsible for preventing the pregnancies, so that there is no decision required about whether or not to abort.

          Men should be more responsible for preventing the pregnancies, so that there is no decision required about whether or not to abort.

    2. the_walrus
      Link Parent
      Yeah, this whole article is absurd. It's extremely sexist and completely ignores the vulnerability of men. Anyone can make poor decisions, be assholes, or make mistakes. I don't think a statement...

      Yeah, this whole article is absurd. It's extremely sexist and completely ignores the vulnerability of men.

      Anyone can make poor decisions, be assholes, or make mistakes. I don't think a statement like "As a society, we really don’t mind if women suffer, physically or mentally, as long as it makes things easier for men" could be any less true. I hate this kind of rhetoric because it undermines the legitimacy of women's voices by muddying the waters with vindictive nonsense. Every consensual sexual relationship is a decision made by two (or sometimes more) parties. We need to work together if we want to create a more just society, not play the blame-game.

      10 votes
    3. mrbig
      Link Parent
      Using a value like "100%" on a statistical assessment is a great way to quickly lose my interest. I'm very intolerant to lack of nuance.

      Using a value like "100%" on a statistical assessment is a great way to quickly lose my interest. I'm very intolerant to lack of nuance.

      7 votes
  3. [2]
    NecrophiliaChocolate
    (edited )
    Link
    This is a really weird article and I believe it is more damaging than helping. It really starts putting all the blame in men. My problem is 'all', this is just factually not true. I wonder if it...

    This is a really weird article and I believe it is more damaging than helping. It really starts putting all the blame in men. My problem is 'all', this is just factually not true. I wonder if it is worth debating point for point why I believe that she is wrong.

    Obviously there are aspects where I believe she is correct, but that isn't my problem in the first place, I agree that men are to blame, but when you start saying men are 100% to blame, I am out.

    You know, I am not exactly sure what this author even means by unwanted pregnancies. Is the man no wanting and the woman wanting a baby count as unwanted pregnancy? Because if that does count and she is saying that no woman has ever tricked a man (or even raped a man), well obviously she is just ignorant about the subject matter or simply refuses to acknowledge.

    It's pretty clear the authors main intention is to get a conversation going, but being sexist is not the way of going about things.

    Edit: Looking at her responses (specifically the second comment), this woman is off the rails. So she is trying to say that women define the unwanted/wanted pregnancy binary. Next, she is blaming men for trusting his partner that she is claiming to be on birth control. What the hell? We are victim blaming now? I guess she isn't interested in having a conversation, she is just a sexist.

    20 votes
    1. Algernon_Asimov
      Link Parent
      I assume that is this comment: I don't think that's off the rails. I think that's rational. If you're a man who seriously doesn't want to cause an unwanted pregnancy or have to deal with it...

      Edit: Looking at her responses (specifically the second comment),

      I assume that is this comment:

      So if she says she’s on the pill that absolves the man from using birth control? Also if she’s trying to get pregnant that would be an intentional pregnancy. If he isn’t interested in her intentional pregnancy, then he better use a condom no matter what kind of birth control she says she’s on.

      Are you telling me he’s willing to casually depend totally on her claim of birth control, even though he says he doesn’t want to cause a pregnancy, just so he can experience condom-less sex?

      I wouldn’t say he’s oppressive, or even predatory, but I would say he is grossly irresponsible. The stakes are ENORMOUS with sex. In general, the burden of treating sex seriously has fallen to women, and the consequences associated have fallen almost exclusively to women. I’m simply asking men to step up and do their part by wearing a condom. Surely, you aren’t trying to argue with that?

      I don't think that's off the rails. I think that's rational. If you're a man who seriously doesn't want to cause an unwanted pregnancy or have to deal with it afterwards then you are going to take steps to prevent that pregnancy.

      I'm a gay man, and the parallels to HIV prevention are striking to me. If I'm about to fuck another man and he says he's HIV-positive but he's taking a pill every day so his virus is untransmissable, and I want to prevent an HIV transmission... am I going to trust his word or am I going to put a condom on? If I'm serious about taking responsibility for the consequences of my sexual act, I'm going to put a condom on, no matter what he says.

      Why don't straight men take the same responsibility for the consequences of their sexual acts that I take for mine? Why do they rely on their partners to do the necessary things to prevent a pregnancy, and absolve themselves of any contribution?

      2 votes
  4. [2]
    Gaywallet
    Link
    The title alone makes me not want to bother with the article. I guess it's not possible for a man to not want a pregnancy but for the woman to want it? I skimmed through the comments here and it...

    The title alone makes me not want to bother with the article. I guess it's not possible for a man to not want a pregnancy but for the woman to want it?

    I skimmed through the comments here and it seems this is just as reactionary as I imagined. What a shame, as there was a good point to be made here, it was just mangled by emotion.

    16 votes
    1. AugustusFerdinand
      Link Parent
      I'm guessing she's going for the most literal definition, which if you give no thought to it (as it seems the author has not) boils down to: If a man doesn't want a baby, then it's his fault for...

      I'm guessing she's going for the most literal definition, which if you give no thought to it (as it seems the author has not) boils down to:

      If a man doesn't want a baby, then it's his fault for ejaculating inside her.

      If a woman doesn't want a baby, it's the man's fault for ejaculating inside her.

      Of course ignores the many other possibilities like... If her birth control fails, it's the man's fault for ejaculating inside her. If the condom broke, it's the man's fault for ejaculating inside her. If she poked holes in his condom or went off her birth control without telling him, it's the man's fault for ejaculating inside her. If he was a victim of male rape, it's the man's fault for ejaculating inside her. If he wears a condom, she steals it, has twins, and sues for child support, it's uhh... his fault for not burning the condom and/or ejaculating at all?

      3 votes
  5. asoftbird
    Link
    Stereotypes and judging groups as a whole help nobody.

    Stereotypes and judging groups as a whole help nobody.

    10 votes
  6. [5]
    vakieh
    Link
    Yeah, this is just utter garbage. Condoms having a 100% success rate is news to me.

    Yeah, this is just utter garbage. Condoms having a 100% success rate is news to me.

    10 votes
    1. [4]
      Algernon_Asimov
      Link Parent
      It's a good thing this article makes no such claim, then: But not, you'll notice, 100% successful at preventing pregnancy. Because that would be a stupid thing to claim. Instead, the claim is that...

      Condoms having a 100% success rate is news to me.

      It's a good thing this article makes no such claim, then:

      They’re readily available at all hours, inexpensive, convenient, and don’t require a prescription. They’re effective and work on demand, instantly. They don’t cause aneurysms, mood swings, or debilitating cramps. Men can keep them stocked up just in case, so they’re always prepared. They can be easily used at the last minute. I mean, condoms are magic! So much easier than birth control options for women.

      But not, you'll notice, 100% successful at preventing pregnancy. Because that would be a stupid thing to claim.

      Instead, the claim is that condoms are an easier and less painful form of birth control than the pill.

      4 votes
      1. Greg
        Link Parent
        How did the man "cause" the pregnancy (as per the title) any more than the woman in the case of contraception failure?

        How did the man "cause" the pregnancy (as per the title) any more than the woman in the case of contraception failure?

        11 votes
      2. [2]
        NeoTheFox
        Link Parent
        I would very much debate this claim. First off condoms are not cheap, and if you are in a long term relationship the cost can pile up. It's different for every couple, but I am assuming if you...

        I would very much debate this claim. First off condoms are not cheap, and if you are in a long term relationship the cost can pile up. It's different for every couple, but I am assuming if you live together you share at least some expenses, and this kind of thing would surface sooner or later. 10$ for a pack of 12 is not cheap at all, considering you have to change them even after one ejaculation. Compared to that the pill is spare change.
        Next, we have the size problem. Every man is different, and if you are blessed with an average sized penis - good for you, you are pretty much covered. But if you are not then you have to either be choking your little pal to death with condoms that are too small, or go out of your way to get that XXL condoms that are not readily available from anywhere. And by god, this "two sizes fits all" idea is still stupid - I happen to find myself in a place where regular condoms are too tight, but XXL ones, depending on the brand, are too slippery. Next, we have the feel factor. I'm sorry, but condoms just feel different. Some people even have fetishes for them, but it's true - both you and your partner feel different when using a condom.
        Next we have the reliability issue - condoms might be effective, but I had them fail more than once, especially with my usual size issues - once a condom breaks, even if you haven't ejaculated yet there is still a risk of accidental pregnancy. And if that happens the only solution to make sure no accident would happen and avoid abortion is plan b pills. These literally wreak havoc on a woman's body, and I doubt anyone would be enthusiastic about taking that pill more than once.
        But enough with what couples have to deal with together, let's talk casual sex.
        I, myself, am a very sex-positive person, and I have nothing against one night stands or party orgies, and yes, you pretty much have to use condoms in these cases, because you can't grantee you wouldn't catch some STDs without it, but the trust factor gets really bad with condoms. What if you've been having a consensual casual sex one moment, but then, after the condom breaks, the girl refuses to take plan b, and actually gets pregnant? You consented to the sex, but not to having a baby. Currently the country I live in doesn't have any means of getting out of this situation, and while the girl can pretty much decide on if she wants the baby or not, you will be forced to slave a significant portion of your wage away for that baby, having no say in the matter.
        I really disagree with the condom argument, it's a tool, but it's not great, and I'd be taking the pill if I could. However, sadly male and female organisms are different things, and while female body has a convenient "switch off" mechanism for egg delivery, the male bode doesn't have that, because there are no circumstances under which males should stop producing sperm in the wild, but a woman body has to stop the egg cycle if it's pregnant. You can read up on how the thing works, and even if you don't understand medical science it's pretty understandable.

        4 votes
        1. Algernon_Asimov
          Link Parent
          You do realise you're making the writer's point for her? "Why would men want to have sex without a condom? Because, for the precious minutes when they’re penetrating their partner, not wearing a...

          Next, we have the feel factor. I'm sorry, but condoms just feel different. Some people even have fetishes for them, but it's true - both you and your partner feel different when using a condom.

          You do realise you're making the writer's point for her? "Why would men want to have sex without a condom? Because, for the precious minutes when they’re penetrating their partner, not wearing a condom gives them more pleasure."

          Next we have the reliability issue - condoms might be effective, but I had them fail more than once, especially with my usual size issues - once a condom breaks, even if you haven't ejaculated yet there is still a risk of accidental pregnancy.

          Birth control pills aren't 100% effective either. Every birth control method falls short of 100% effectiveness. That's why the best birth control is to use pills and condoms. Even if the woman is on the pill, the man should wear a condom if he's serious about preventing pregnancy. That way, her mostly effective protection and his mostly effective protection can combine for a much more effective protection.

          1 vote
  7. [3]
    nic
    Link
    This article is... thought provoking, but also provokes anger and ridicule. No mention of the morning after pill. Also not pleasant, I'm sure. No, they are not. They are 98% effective under...

    This article is... thought provoking, but also provokes anger and ridicule.

    The pill requires consistent daily use and doesn’t leave much room for mistakes, forgetfulness, or unexpected disruptions to daily schedules.

    No mention of the morning after pill. Also not pleasant, I'm sure.

    I mean, condoms are magic!

    No, they are not. They are 98% effective under perfect conditions but only 85% effective in practice.

    the pull-out. It doesn’t protect against STDs, it’s an easy joke, and it’s far from perfect. However, it’s 96% effective if done correctly, and 78% effective in practice.

    Terrible advice, unless you are in a committed relationship. Who knows what will happen in the heat of the moment.

    Would you be on board with having a handful of men castrated to prevent 600,000 murders each year?

    Castration? Not vasectomy? Really?

    All males in the U.S. could get a vasectomy when they are ready to be sexually active. Vasectomies are very safe, highly reversible

    Terrible advice. Pregnancy rates after vasectomy reversal will range from about 30 percent to over 90 percent, depending on the type of procedure.

    9 votes
    1. [2]
      Diff
      Link Parent
      What I really want to know is who that handful of dudes are that are causing 6 digit abortion rates single handedly.

      What I really want to know is who that handful of dudes are that are causing 6 digit abortion rates single handedly.

      5 votes
  8. Grendel
    Link
    This article claims that one of the reasons men have such complete responsibility is because they can use condoms which are easier than birth control pills. Does the author not realize that female...

    This article claims that one of the reasons men have such complete responsibility is because they can use condoms which are easier than birth control pills. Does the author not realize that female condoms exist? In that sense, women have more birth control options than men.

    5 votes
  9. Deimos
    Link
    Alright, I think this has run its course.

    Alright, I think this has run its course.

    4 votes
  10. AugustusFerdinand
    Link
    Well, let's see how long I can do this before I get bored... Incorrect. Just because you have elected to perform the most selfish and ecologically harmful act the average human can do doesn't make...

    Well, let's see how long I can do this before I get bored...

    As a mother of six and a Mormon, I have a good understanding of arguments surrounding abortion, religious and otherwise.

    Incorrect. Just because you have elected to perform the most selfish and ecologically harmful act the average human can do doesn't make you have "a good understanding" of anything at all. That's not how that works.

    Men seem unable (or unwilling) to admit that they cause 100% of them.

    So if a man doesn't want a baby, then it's his fault for ejaculating inside her? I'll give you that one.

    If a woman doesn't want a baby, it's the man's fault for ejaculating inside her? Assuming a number of extenuating circumstances don't occur, such as...

    If her birth control fails, it's the man's fault for ejaculating inside her. If the condom broke, it's the man's fault for ejaculating inside her. If she poked holes in his condom or went off her birth control without telling him, it's the man's fault for ejaculating inside her. If he was a victim of male rape, it's the man's fault for ejaculating inside her. If he wears a condom, she steals it, gets artificial insemination without consent, has twins, and sues for child support, it's uhh... his fault for not burning the condom and/or ejaculating at all?

    Modern birth control for women is possibly the most important invention of the last century, and I’m very grateful for it. It’s also brutal. The side effects for many women include migraines, mood swings, decreased libido, depression, severe cramps, heavy bleeding, aneurysm — and that’s just a small fraction of them.

    Female condom.

    Discouragingly, a promising study on a new male contraceptive was canceled in large part due to… (wait for it)… side effects.

    Links old article that isn't up to date on current male contraceptives, but does fit her narrative. Yawn.

    In addition, contraceptive options for women can’t be easily acquired at the last minute.

    There are pharmacies that are open 24 hours across the country and offer "Plan B".

    In most cases, they don’t work instantly.

    Only doesn't work if you're obese.

    In contrast, let’s look at birth control for men — i.e., condoms. They’re readily available at all hours, inexpensive, convenient, and don’t require a prescription. They’re effective and work on demand, instantly. They don’t cause aneurysms, mood swings, or debilitating cramps. Men can keep them stocked up just in case, so they’re always prepared. They can be easily used at the last minute. I mean, condoms are magic! So much easier than birth control options for women.

    Again, female condom.

    Why don’t men just use condoms every time they have sex?

    Because not all women like them, enjoy them, can use them, etc...

    In fact, it’s very, very common for men to pressure women to have sex without a condom.

    The reverse is true as well. I've had female partners that encouraged/pressured me not to use one.

    Why would men want to have sex without a condom? Because, for the precious minutes when they’re penetrating their partner, not wearing a condom gives them more pleasure. So… that would mean some men are willing to risk getting a woman pregnant — which means literally risking her life, her health, her social status, her relationships, and her career — so they can experience a few minutes of slightly increased pleasure.

    So are we just assuming all condom-less sex is rape and therefore a man's fault here?

    Imagine a pleasure scale, with pain beginning at zero and going down into the negatives. A good back-scratch falls at 5, and an orgasm without a condom is a 10. Where would sex with a condom fall? A 7 or 8? So, it’s not that sex with a condom is not pleasurable, it’s just not as pleasurable. An 8 instead of a 10.

    Can I start telling women that childbirth isn't that painful? Because I'm pretty sure I don't have a womb in which I can state that accurately and the author doesn't have a penis to decide this either.

    As a general rule, men get women pregnant by having an orgasm. Yes, there are exceptions — it’s possible for sperm to show up in pre-ejaculate — but in most cases, getting a woman pregnant is a pleasurable act for men. But men can get a woman pregnant without her feeling any pleasure at all. It’s even possible for a man to impregnate a woman while causing her excruciating pain, trauma, or horror.

    Got it. Man's fault that biology made orgasm a requirement for men to reproduce, but not for women. Man's fault. Got it.

    In contrast, a woman can have nonstop orgasms with or without a partner and never once get herself pregnant.

    So can a man... Not sure the point here.

    If the woman decides to have an abortion, the man may never even know he caused an unwanted pregnancy with his irresponsible ejaculation. If the woman decides to have the baby, or put the baby up for adoption, the man may never know he caused an unwanted pregnancy with his irresponsible ejaculation either. He may never know there’s now a child walking around with 50% of his DNA.

    So again because we're not seahorses it's a man's fault because biology. Got it.

    If the woman does tell him he caused an unwanted pregnancy and that she’s having the baby,

    So we're shifting the blame here because now he doesn't want the baby, but she refuses to abort. Ah yes, damn biology making her carry the baby instead of ol' seahorse. Man's fault, got it.

    Only about 61 percent of required payments by men are actually made, and there are little to no repercussions for skipping out. In some states, failing to pay child support doesn’t even affect your credit.

    Which per the linked article isn't as simple as a percentage. Oh and she makes a point to not mention the part that doesn't fit her narrative: that of the women who are ordered to pay child support, only 39% do.

    If a man does pay child support, it doesn’t come close to what is required by a woman in the case of an unwanted pregnancy.

    Unsubstantiated claim with zero numbers or actual meaning behind it. Yeah... probably a man's fault for that.

    If we’re discussing abortion law — and not how to hold men accountable for irresponsible ejaculations, and the unwanted pregnancies caused by them — we’re wasting our time. Shift the conversation. Stop protesting at clinics. Stop shaming women. Stop debating whether or not to overturn abortion laws. If you actually care about reducing or eliminating the number of abortions in our country, simply hold men accountable for their actions.

    So... child support and rape convictions?

    Vasectomies are... highly reversible

    Wrong and reversible in the same sense that a woman's tubes being tied is reversible. Invasive, painful, and generally with a low success rate.

    Don’t like my ideas? That’s fine. I’m sure there are better ideas, and I challenge you to suggest your own.

    Ok. Try linking current articles about male birth control, wear a female condom, say "no", and allow abortions across the board without restriction because I don't particularly care what you do with your body and any parasites within it.

    If you’re a man, what would it take for you to never again ejaculate irresponsibly? A loss of money, rights, or freedoms?

    Money, rights, and freedoms? Like child support, custody, and freedom to do what you want when you want to or even jail time for not paying child support? That stuff that men already give up?

    What would it take for you to value the life of your sexual partner more than your own temporary pleasure or convenience?
    Men mostly run our government, and men mostly make our laws. In theory, men could eliminate — or drastically reduce — abortions within months without ever touching an abortion law or even mentioning women. They’d simply need to hold men accountable for irresponsible ejaculations, and legislate accordingly.
    To reduce or eliminate abortions, stop attempting to control women’s bodies and sexuality. Because unwanted pregnancies are caused by men.

    Is it loud in that echo chamber?

    3 votes
  11. [3]
    Octofox
    Link
    Water drinkers cause 100% of terrorist attacks

    Water drinkers cause 100% of terrorist attacks

    17 votes
    1. [2]
      Algernon_Asimov
      Link Parent
      Thank you for your thoughtful and considered contribution to the topic of unwanted pregnancies, abortion, and sexual politics.

      Thank you for your thoughtful and considered contribution to the topic of unwanted pregnancies, abortion, and sexual politics.

      10 votes
      1. emdash
        Link Parent
        At least we still know noise tags still appear to be working!

        At least we still know noise tags still appear to be working!