It doesn't look like she's singing, but that could just be a fluke of the editing. I think it's great to get Polynesian culture and people on the screen and I think Moana is a great story. Just, I...
It doesn't look like she's singing, but that could just be a fluke of the editing.
I think it's great to get Polynesian culture and people on the screen and I think Moana is a great story. Just, I don't want to see another version of the same story. Tell me a new one. Even do a live action sequel. It's so limiting
My cousin was one of the primary models used for the animated character design for Moana, so color me in as a little bit sad that she is not the one starring in this (not that she was in the...
My cousin was one of the primary models used for the animated character design for Moana, so color me in as a little bit sad that she is not the one starring in this (not that she was in the running, considering, considered, or even an actress).
Not sure if a live-action remake is needed, but I don't mind seeing more polynesian films being made in the slightest. I may not be polynesian, but growing up around them I feel closer to their culture than any others even if it was only in my formative years.
I'm sure the answer is $, but can folks explain why Disney is taking recent animated movies and making them live action? Is story and script development that expensive? Or is it just that people...
I'm sure the answer is $, but can folks explain why Disney is taking recent animated movies and making them live action? Is story and script development that expensive? Or is it just that people know Moana and the brand recognition will just carry this to success? It just seems odd not to try and develop new IP or at least not make an exact remake but with human actors.
Cynically, my hunch is that it’s an “easy”, templated way to juice old IP. Just repeat the same formula over and over until you run out of animation to remake into live action. Financially it’s...
Cynically, my hunch is that it’s an “easy”, templated way to juice old IP. Just repeat the same formula over and over until you run out of animation to remake into live action.
Financially it’s probably more consistent and less risky than trying to produce new timeless classics.
I think it’s unfair to call this and other Disney remakes as low effort. There’s obviously quite a lot of effort put into these movies by an extremely large amount of people.
I think it’s unfair to call this and other Disney remakes as low effort. There’s obviously quite a lot of effort put into these movies by an extremely large amount of people.
Apologies if I wasn't clear that I was talking about low effort at the concept stage. I don't think that there's anything lower than trotting out the bankable hits of people's younger years at...
Apologies if I wasn't clear that I was talking about low effort at the concept stage.
I don't think that there's anything lower than trotting out the bankable hits of people's younger years at around the time when they have kids who can enjoy it.
They basically guarantee bucket loads: The Jungle Book 2016: Budget $175–177 million, Box office $966.6 million Beauty and the Beast 2017: Budget $160–255 million, Box office $1.266 billion. Lion...
They basically guarantee bucket loads:
The Jungle Book 2016: Budget $175–177 million, Box office $966.6 million
Beauty and the Beast 2017: Budget $160–255 million, Box office $1.266 billion.
Lion King 2019: Budget $250–260 million, Box office $1.657 billion
And most recently, Lilo & Stitch 2025: Budget $100 million, Box office $1.038 billion
I am reposting this comment I made in July my thinking hasn't changed that Disney is a R&D tech company that funds its research with media production and mechandise, and always has been.
I am reposting this comment I made in July my thinking hasn't changed that Disney is a R&D tech company that funds its research with media production and mechandise, and always has been.
FWIW: I hate those movies as well, Lion King being the main one.
But, you have to keep in mind that Disney has always been an advanced technology company that masquerades as a media company, and that their movies are just a way they raise funding from the public.
Those 3D Lifelike animation films are research and development for the tech to do them, their animation designs, their physics engines, their rendering agents, etc. They slap essentially a premade script and story (not requiring a lot of script work or cast work), limited marketed budget needed, minimal focus testing, proven-to-work formula and property that they know will bring in $50M minimum within a day in revenue just off the name and nostalgia factor alone (Lion King, Little Mermaid), worst case makes 150M+ just from increased merch sales from the nostalgia and press, etc (...or you know, $1.657 billion as LK did just in movie money, not merch), and even if doesn't make the development costs back, it helps supplement the overall R&D budget for the tech. Even the ones that do bad, are not bad for them, they supplement the budget.
Just to go a bit beyond, for example their theme parks have always been purely a R&D endeavor to fund their tech, since the very beginning. Their robotics developments are incredible - and they are using them with the public. It's an excellent, chaotic, but well-tuned, well-managed, strict environment.
The Marvel films? the switch to using robots for their stunt doubles are R&D for humanoid robotics under extreme conditions, it's brilliant. The 'green screen of film death'? advanced vfx, spatial orientation, generative real-time effect management (they can see the general effects generated in real time, as the cast and crew are working/acting), the display tech, the camera tech, all of it, it's incredibly advanced. They pump them out nonstop because the core tech stays the same, but advances. Not for the story, or characters, or fans, but for the budget, for the continual advancement.
Disney is just the megacorp version of James Cameron, which should be noted, since Disney bought 20th Century, and Avatar is now one of their most important properties. It was a tech acquisition.
Do they make a ton of money on media? Yeah. Do they invest an ungodly sum back into R&D? Oh yeah, they might be one of the biggest publicly known, but unknown advanced technology companies in the world. It's insane.
I suspect the reason is that you can't make a good story by throwing money at writers. It's a creative process, and that's something you can't really force. I vaguely remember reading that paying...
I suspect the reason is that you can't make a good story by throwing money at writers. It's a creative process, and that's something you can't really force. I vaguely remember reading that paying people more money makes them less creative.
If you could convert money to genius, all of our problems would've been solved thousands of years ago.
One answer I have heard before, which I didn't see here yet: animators are unionized, vfx artists are mostly not. By replacing their animated films with special effects "live action" films, they...
One answer I have heard before, which I didn't see here yet: animators are unionized, vfx artists are mostly not. By replacing their animated films with special effects "live action" films, they can avoid paying residuals to animators.
Historically, I've understood animators like other crafts people to be below the line, meaning that you make a set rate, get a credit and it's on to the next job. In most cases, I think that's...
Historically, I've understood animators like other crafts people to be below the line, meaning that you make a set rate, get a credit and it's on to the next job. In most cases, I think that's still how it works.
I've had a saying that I've stolen from Patrick Willems ages ago that modern CGI effect movies are just animations that are acceptable to adults, and damn if Disney isn't constantly proving that...
I've had a saying that I've stolen from Patrick Willems ages ago that modern CGI effect movies are just animations that are acceptable to adults, and damn if Disney isn't constantly proving that saying true.
Incidentally, as an adult, just give me the fun kid animations. There is so much room for artistic leeway in choosing a style and making it your own. The closer we get to "realistic" animation,...
Incidentally, as an adult, just give me the fun kid animations. There is so much room for artistic leeway in choosing a style and making it your own. The closer we get to "realistic" animation, the more I wonder, to what end? If you want live action, make it live action, make it really feel alive.
A lot of live action movies can't even do that right anymore unfortunately.
I very strongly agree. I rather dislike movies that feature uncanny valley characters, smeary effects, and superpowers that make end up making everything seem more unrealistic than if it were...
I very strongly agree. I rather dislike movies that feature uncanny valley characters, smeary effects, and superpowers that make end up making everything seem more unrealistic than if it were fully animated.
On that, I actually think super realistic animation is also kind of unnecessary. It seems more like a flex than is actually useful except for the sole purpose of replacing people and things for live action films.
Perhaps in film, but the same tech gets extensive use in video games. Many gamers like the idea of hyper realistic graphics, so it's unsurprising that companies spend so much on graphics...
On that, I actually think super realistic animation is also kind of unnecessary. It seems more like a flex than is actually useful except for the sole purpose of replacing people and things for live action films.
Perhaps in film, but the same tech gets extensive use in video games. Many gamers like the idea of hyper realistic graphics, so it's unsurprising that companies spend so much on graphics improvements.
I also think there are plenty of ideas that are extremely difficult to execute with real people. Animation has always had a unique place. If I wanted to depict a truly immersive Lovecraftian experience, it'd be very difficult with only practical effects.
As for the uncanny valley, I think the Detective Pikachu movie perfectly threads the needle. I'd like to see more animation that truly blurs the boundaries between reality and fantasy.
Animation that truly blurs reality and fantasy was already done 20+ years ago, eg Lord Of The Rings or Titantic or Jurassic Park (1993). Mix of practical + stop motion + puppetry+ machinery +...
Animation that truly blurs reality and fantasy was already done 20+ years ago, eg Lord Of The Rings or Titantic or Jurassic Park (1993). Mix of practical + stop motion + puppetry+ machinery + computer assistance.
Off the back of pioneering CGI work in The Abyss (1989) and Terminator 2: Judgement Day (1991), Muren and his team produced a test sequence of skeletal dinosaurs. Additional tests featuring a Tyrannosaurus rex with added skin further cemented the realisation that this was the way to go for the film. This technique built the model of the dinosaur from bones, added muscle and then finally, the skin.
It seemed the assembled stop-motion team had been made extinct by this innovative technology. However, the model makers and animators were the experts on dinosaurs and their movement, and they retrained as computer animators to continue to use their skills on the production.
The studio's have then gone backwards and said, what if we take away all the practical and machinery and just do computers. It's not that our graphics cards can't calculate particles light and water 1000x better than before: it's that there are a lot of real world things that become hard for a team of art directors to explicitly notice and name and nail down perfectly. We're so busy doing computers we have fewer people understanding puppets, skeletons, muscles and movement.
Of all the animated films Disney could have done a live-action remake of, why Moana? It won't even be a decade old by the time its remake releases. Even the fucking sequel came out last year. I...
Of all the animated films Disney could have done a live-action remake of, why Moana?
It won't even be a decade old by the time its remake releases. Even the fucking sequel came out last year.
I mean Disney could have done something a bit more hype, like a remake of Atlantis: The Lost Empire, The Emperor's New Groove, Pocahontas, The Sword In The Stone or Treasure Planet, or even given us a live-action Kingdom Hearts film series that tries to smooth out the clusterfuck of a story that Kazushige Nojima and Tetsuya Nomura wrote for the franchise.
Moana is the most streamed movie on Disney+, and the sequel made over a billion dollars even as a stitched together TV special. Gambling on remaking their flops in live action isn’t something...
Moana is the most streamed movie on Disney+, and the sequel made over a billion dollars even as a stitched together TV special.
Gambling on remaking their flops in live action isn’t something they’re gonna do when they have access to hits.
I never actually watched the original at all, but the trailer made me listen to "How Far I'll Go" again and, Gods, that's accidentally a really trans coded song, huh
I never actually watched the original at all, but the trailer made me listen to "How Far I'll Go" again and, Gods, that's accidentally a really trans coded song, huh
Unserious Hot Take : all Disney princess songs are trans coded songs Let It Go : " That perfect girl is gone Here I stand In the light of day Let the storm rage on" Reflections: "who is that girl...
Unserious Hot Take : all Disney princess songs are trans coded songs
Let It Go : " That perfect girl is gone Here I stand In the light of day Let the storm rage on"
Reflections: "who is that girl I see staring straight back at me? When will my reflection show who I am inside?"
Part Of Your World: When's it my turn? Wouldn't I love / Love to explore that shore up above? Out of the sea, wish I could be / Part of that world"
Belle : it might be grand to have someone understand / I want so much more than they've got planned
Simba : "Oh I just can't wait to be King"
Cinderella: "Have faith in your dreams and someday / Your rainbow will come smiling through"
Alladin / Jasmine : "A whole new world / A new fantastic point of view / No one to tell us no, or where to go / Or say we're only dreaming"
Okay, but Mulan is literally about defying gender norms. It's not quite explicitly trans, but it definitely is explicitly about 80% of the way there. Can you really call that trans "coded"? ;)
Reflections
Okay, but Mulan is literally about defying gender norms. It's not quite explicitly trans, but it definitely is explicitly about 80% of the way there. Can you really call that trans "coded"? ;)
It doesn't look like she's singing, but that could just be a fluke of the editing.
I think it's great to get Polynesian culture and people on the screen and I think Moana is a great story. Just, I don't want to see another version of the same story. Tell me a new one. Even do a live action sequel. It's so limiting
It would have been so cool if they'd just made a live action sequel instead. Oh well.
My cousin was one of the primary models used for the animated character design for Moana, so color me in as a little bit sad that she is not the one starring in this (not that she was in the running, considering, considered, or even an actress).
Not sure if a live-action remake is needed, but I don't mind seeing more polynesian films being made in the slightest. I may not be polynesian, but growing up around them I feel closer to their culture than any others even if it was only in my formative years.
I'm sure the answer is $, but can folks explain why Disney is taking recent animated movies and making them live action? Is story and script development that expensive? Or is it just that people know Moana and the brand recognition will just carry this to success? It just seems odd not to try and develop new IP or at least not make an exact remake but with human actors.
At least for this one, Dwayne Johnson wanted to be the live action Maui and he's not getting any younger.
Cynically, my hunch is that it’s an “easy”, templated way to juice old IP. Just repeat the same formula over and over until you run out of animation to remake into live action.
Financially it’s probably more consistent and less risky than trying to produce new timeless classics.
Cynically, I hope that people cue up a low effort torrent for this and other low effort movies.
I think it’s unfair to call this and other Disney remakes as low effort. There’s obviously quite a lot of effort put into these movies by an extremely large amount of people.
Apologies if I wasn't clear that I was talking about low effort at the concept stage.
I don't think that there's anything lower than trotting out the bankable hits of people's younger years at around the time when they have kids who can enjoy it.
I've had some bowel movements that took a tremendous amount of effort for similar results.
They basically guarantee bucket loads:
The Jungle Book 2016: Budget $175–177 million, Box office $966.6 million
Beauty and the Beast 2017: Budget $160–255 million, Box office $1.266 billion.
Lion King 2019: Budget $250–260 million, Box office $1.657 billion
And most recently, Lilo & Stitch 2025: Budget $100 million, Box office $1.038 billion
I am reposting this comment I made in July my thinking hasn't changed that Disney is a R&D tech company that funds its research with media production and mechandise, and always has been.
I suspect the reason is that you can't make a good story by throwing money at writers. It's a creative process, and that's something you can't really force. I vaguely remember reading that paying people more money makes them less creative.
If you could convert money to genius, all of our problems would've been solved thousands of years ago.
One answer I have heard before, which I didn't see here yet: animators are unionized, vfx artists are mostly not. By replacing their animated films with special effects "live action" films, they can avoid paying residuals to animators.
Do Animators get residuals the way writers do? I did not think that was part of their contracts but I don't always see those negotiations highlighted
It says here that for animators, instead of receiving a direct check for their residuals, it gets lumped in with their pension. https://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-about-residuals.html?m=1
Ah interesting. Thanks for looking at it
Historically, I've understood animators like other crafts people to be below the line, meaning that you make a set rate, get a credit and it's on to the next job. In most cases, I think that's still how it works.
It looks like union animators get residuals to their pension/benefits not in pay. But I think you're right for non-union shops.
I've had a saying that I've stolen from Patrick Willems ages ago that modern CGI effect movies are just animations that are acceptable to adults, and damn if Disney isn't constantly proving that saying true.
Incidentally, as an adult, just give me the fun kid animations. There is so much room for artistic leeway in choosing a style and making it your own. The closer we get to "realistic" animation, the more I wonder, to what end? If you want live action, make it live action, make it really feel alive.
A lot of live action movies can't even do that right anymore unfortunately.
I very strongly agree. I rather dislike movies that feature uncanny valley characters, smeary effects, and superpowers that make end up making everything seem more unrealistic than if it were fully animated.
On that, I actually think super realistic animation is also kind of unnecessary. It seems more like a flex than is actually useful except for the sole purpose of replacing people and things for live action films.
Perhaps in film, but the same tech gets extensive use in video games. Many gamers like the idea of hyper realistic graphics, so it's unsurprising that companies spend so much on graphics improvements.
I also think there are plenty of ideas that are extremely difficult to execute with real people. Animation has always had a unique place. If I wanted to depict a truly immersive Lovecraftian experience, it'd be very difficult with only practical effects.
As for the uncanny valley, I think the Detective Pikachu movie perfectly threads the needle. I'd like to see more animation that truly blurs the boundaries between reality and fantasy.
Animation that truly blurs reality and fantasy was already done 20+ years ago, eg Lord Of The Rings or Titantic or Jurassic Park (1993). Mix of practical + stop motion + puppetry+ machinery + computer assistance.
The studio's have then gone backwards and said, what if we take away all the practical and machinery and just do computers. It's not that our graphics cards can't calculate particles light and water 1000x better than before: it's that there are a lot of real world things that become hard for a team of art directors to explicitly notice and name and nail down perfectly. We're so busy doing computers we have fewer people understanding puppets, skeletons, muscles and movement.
Of all the animated films Disney could have done a live-action remake of, why Moana?
It won't even be a decade old by the time its remake releases. Even the fucking sequel came out last year.
I mean Disney could have done something a bit more hype, like a remake of Atlantis: The Lost Empire, The Emperor's New Groove, Pocahontas, The Sword In The Stone or Treasure Planet, or even given us a live-action Kingdom Hearts film series that tries to smooth out the clusterfuck of a story that Kazushige Nojima and Tetsuya Nomura wrote for the franchise.
Moana is the most streamed movie on Disney+, and the sequel made over a billion dollars even as a stitched together TV special.
Gambling on remaking their flops in live action isn’t something they’re gonna do when they have access to hits.
I never actually watched the original at all, but the trailer made me listen to "How Far I'll Go" again and, Gods, that's accidentally a really trans coded song, huh
I feel like you can assign that to anything that’s about coming of age/finding yourself
Unserious Hot Take : all Disney princess songs are trans coded songs
Let It Go : " That perfect girl is gone Here I stand In the light of day Let the storm rage on"
Reflections: "who is that girl I see staring straight back at me? When will my reflection show who I am inside?"
Part Of Your World: When's it my turn? Wouldn't I love / Love to explore that shore up above? Out of the sea, wish I could be / Part of that world"
Belle : it might be grand to have someone understand / I want so much more than they've got planned
Simba : "Oh I just can't wait to be King"
Cinderella: "Have faith in your dreams and someday / Your rainbow will come smiling through"
Alladin / Jasmine : "A whole new world / A new fantastic point of view / No one to tell us no, or where to go / Or say we're only dreaming"
Okay, but Mulan is literally about defying gender norms. It's not quite explicitly trans, but it definitely is explicitly about 80% of the way there. Can you really call that trans "coded"? ;)
@cloud_loud is right about being applicable for any story about coming of age / finding yourself.