17 votes

Avengers: Doomsday | Fantastic Four and Wakanda teaser

26 comments

  1. [15]
    europeanNyan
    Link
    As a former big MCU fan, I really hope they can turn this around. I miss high production blockbuster movies of the past. Still, I am really unsure of how they intend to make this make sense....

    As a former big MCU fan, I really hope they can turn this around. I miss high production blockbuster movies of the past.

    Still, I am really unsure of how they intend to make this make sense. Somewhere when all the Disney+ series were made and Endgame was done, I (and practically all of my friends) stopped following the MCU and now the question is: what happened in between? Will they explain that to all the movie theater visitors (and, obviously, me)? Somewhere deep down I am hoping it's going to be a 4-hour epic blockbuster which will restore the MCU to its former glory.

    14 votes
    1. [11]
      frailtomato
      Link Parent
      As always, a bit rambling, so I've bolded my question. As somebody who has seen two MCU movies - could I ask a clarifying question? It comes from a place of curiosity about letting things just...

      restore the MCU to its former glory.

      As always, a bit rambling, so I've bolded my question.

      As somebody who has seen two MCU movies - could I ask a clarifying question? It comes from a place of curiosity about letting things just end. Are you keen for more of the same characters, or to look at entirely unexplored ones? From my admittedly information-poor understanding, it's been largely the same characters since the start, just with new ones added in as they go, with each movie/handful of movies focusing on a different hero. Are you after more of that in the restoration? A number of comments I've seen have indicated skepticism about character bloat.

      My questions are probably coloured by a disinterest in superhero movies themselves, but I'm not hostile to them. However, I'm of the opinion that literature (including cinema) is largely imbued with meaning by it's endings.

      7 votes
      1. [2]
        CrypticCuriosity629
        Link Parent
        I don't speak for everyone, but to me the best thing about the MCU is less about the individual characters and more about the shared universe and the way the characters interact with each other...

        I don't speak for everyone, but to me the best thing about the MCU is less about the individual characters and more about the shared universe and the way the characters interact with each other and effect the characters have with the shared universe as a whole.

        Also, in my opinion the restoration thing is just about getting good coherent movies again.

        The great thing about the Infinity Saga, is that every movie could stand on its own AND fit into a larger mutli-movie arch plan at the same time.

        Everything after the Infinity Saga either hasn't had a coherent multi-movie "plan" or they've shelved one plan for another. And frankly some of the movies barely stand on their own.

        And finally, this might answer your question more than everything else I've siad, but imo they've failed to create staple group of post-infinity saga characters to serve as the core and backbone of the stories. They've gone off in so many directions, that it feels like every character is just a side character or one of the B-list heroes.

        If they had created some movies where some characters actually stepped up to fill in the void left by the pre-infinity saga heroes disbanding, instead of just sort of dancing around it, I think it would have been much better.

        Tldr: I just want better movies with a coherent mutli-movie arch.

        20 votes
      2. [8]
        europeanNyan
        Link Parent
        Thanks for the very nice questions and interest. CrypticCuriosity629 already made some great points and I'd build on those. The build-up of the MCU started with Iron Man who was, at least in my...

        Thanks for the very nice questions and interest. CrypticCuriosity629 already made some great points and I'd build on those. The build-up of the MCU started with Iron Man who was, at least in my opinion, not that popular (or known) amongst people who don't read comics. And yet, Robert Downey Jr. played it perfectly and made him a staple. This answers the question if I want the same characters: not really. I want for the new characters to be introduced like they did with Iron Man. And I don't want to have to subscribe to additional services and watch for hours upon hours (see: Loki or Wanda which were great series, but I'm really not a fan of having to watch seasons of shows to stay in the loop). Also, to be able to keep subscribers, everything has to stay open ended. It's never really satisfying like the ending of a good movie.

        And I have a feeling that that's also what you meant. That's also the biggest strength: a great story can be told and concluded in multiple different plots. Fishing out world (or universe or multiverse) ending threats out of the last almost century of Marvel comics really isn't that hard. So, yeah, create multiple Avengers, Iron Man or Captain America movies, but make them fresh and do a loosely connected overarching story which ends in a satisfying crescendo. It doesn't seem that hard.

        7 votes
        1. [4]
          smores
          Link Parent
          I feel like the only post-Endgame movie that actually started to do this was Shang-Chi, and I feel like quite a lot of that potential ended up being squandered (or at least, like, indefinitely...

          I feel like the only post-Endgame movie that actually started to do this was Shang-Chi, and I feel like quite a lot of that potential ended up being squandered (or at least, like, indefinitely postponed?). Simu Liu has a ton of charisma, Shang-Chi is a very compelling character, and the action in that movie was fantastic. If we had seen him even once in the past 5 years, I think we might genuinely be feeling different about this. Or maybe if he had interacted at all with the Thunderbolts or Captain Falcon at any point. Iron Man 1 and Iron Man 2 came out two years apart! And Captain Americas 1 & 2 were only three years apart.

          It doesn't help that it seems like Marvel does not know how to write a good Sam Wilson Captain America movie. Brave New World was.. bad.

          12 votes
          1. [3]
            Minori
            Link Parent
            It's funny you say this because when I saw the film in theatres, I decided that was the last Marvel movie I'd see. There were no original ideas. The camerawork was mediocre. I could predict the...

            Simu Liu has a ton of charisma, Shang-Chi is a very compelling character, and the action in that movie was fantastic

            It's funny you say this because when I saw the film in theatres, I decided that was the last Marvel movie I'd see. There were no original ideas. The camerawork was mediocre. I could predict the plot beat-for-beat, and the actor felt charismatic with zero magnetism (primarily due to the writing).

            I'd contrast the film with Deadpool, The Wolverine (2013), Guardians of the Galaxy, and even Black Panther which felt like independent works with unique settings or events. Shang-Chi tried to do some things like have its San Franciscan hero live in a garage and work as a valet, but none of it ended up mattering in any grand sense. The Chinese elements were there, I guess.

            The film was neither awful nor excellent. At best, it was a 6/10 for me.

            1 vote
            1. [2]
              smores
              Link Parent
              I think that's a fair assessment of the movie, and I was particularly disappointed in the third act (beautiful dragon fight aside), which felt very rushed and out of proportion (very weird to have...

              I think that's a fair assessment of the movie, and I was particularly disappointed in the third act (beautiful dragon fight aside), which felt very rushed and out of proportion (very weird to have this like tiny little ten-on-ten "war" for the fate of the world, after all that build up about the power of both sides).

              I was thinking more about Simu Liu's portrayal of Shang-Chi, which I thought was very engaging and was really the only new character since Endgame that I cared about individually, the way I cared about RDJ's Tony Stark. It felt like a character that deserved more story, and certainly more time to interact with the rest of the universe, and instead we just haven't seen him in 5 years. And the movie was very well received when it came out — audiences clearly resonated with the character.

              1 vote
              1. Minori
                Link Parent
                Yep, that third act really killed it for me. All the cameos and forced quips weakened the new characters for me too. They're hard to take seriously when nothing is allowed any gravitas...

                Yep, that third act really killed it for me. All the cameos and forced quips weakened the new characters for me too. They're hard to take seriously when nothing is allowed any gravitas...

        2. slade
          Link Parent
          I agree completely. These might be my only two demands: In particular, Iron Man was set in a world where superheroes and supervillains didn't exist in public awareness (IIRC?). But after so many...

          I agree completely. These might be my only two demands:

          I want for the new characters to be introduced like they did with Iron Man. And I don't want to have to subscribe to additional services and watch for hours upon hours

          In particular, Iron Man was set in a world where superheroes and supervillains didn't exist in public awareness (IIRC?). But after so many movies, new movies begin in a world where superheroes and supervillains have existed for years and there's no (in universe) novelty to the concept.

          Origin stories are now done very quickly because the characters don't need as long to adjust to the idea that this person now wears spandex and shoots lasers, and the impact (emotional, psychological) of these characters transforming into superheroes has been all but removed.

          I still think they can write fresh origin stories that you feel, and that lead to meaningful arcs, but they have to do it carefully.

          5 votes
        3. [2]
          Rudism
          Link Parent
          At some point for me, the MCU movies themselves essentially became a high budget TV series that you had to invest in and keep up with every "episode" or miss all kinds of context and references....

          At some point for me, the MCU movies themselves essentially became a high budget TV series that you had to invest in and keep up with every "episode" or miss all kinds of context and references. Me coming to that realization is when I started to lose interest (probably around Civil War iirc). But I also think that's what makes them so popular with the general public, so I can't really blame them.

          5 votes
          1. Nsutdwa
            Link Parent
            I could just keep pace up to endgame, but already series were creeping in then. It felt like the only way to "keep up" after that because committing all my tv viewing "budget" to mediocre MCU...

            I could just keep pace up to endgame, but already series were creeping in then. It felt like the only way to "keep up" after that because committing all my tv viewing "budget" to mediocre MCU series, in the hope that one of the many, many characters thus introduced/fleshed out would make it back to the big screen for a satisfying dénouement. But it never happened. I dropped off, and nothing happened, either, I probably missed some good TV, but I missed an awful lot of bad TV.

            I really enjoyed all the context and inside references in those movies up to Endgame, I think they did a pretty good job of making each character matter, more or less.

            3 votes
    2. Jona37an
      Link Parent
      I’m guessing they know that tons of people stopped following post-Endgame, so I’m betting on the Russo’s pulling fast, minimum needed introductions in what is going to feel like a direct sequel to...

      I’m guessing they know that tons of people stopped following post-Endgame, so I’m betting on the Russo’s pulling fast, minimum needed introductions in what is going to feel like a direct sequel to Endgame.

      3 votes
    3. [2]
      groutexpectations
      Link Parent
      what happened in between was hit or miss, and the less time spent reviewing the better imho.

      stopped following the MCU and now the question is: what happened in between? Will they explain that to all the movie theater visitors

      what happened in between was hit or miss, and the less time spent reviewing the better imho.

      2 votes
      1. europeanNyan
        Link Parent
        I did watch the movies after Endgame (at least Spider-Man and Doctor Strange) and as a fan of both characters, the movies didn't really make me happy. It could be the multiverse thing. I'm really...

        I did watch the movies after Endgame (at least Spider-Man and Doctor Strange) and as a fan of both characters, the movies didn't really make me happy. It could be the multiverse thing. I'm really not a fan of multiverses... they make me think that no action has a consequence since, if someone dies, you just reach into another multiverse and fish them out and ta-da they're back. But also it's just that the stories of the individual movies aren't as interesting as the previous movies.

        3 votes
  2. [7]
    kingofsnake
    Link
    I once played this game called Chrono Cross where the studio, promising a sequel to one of the most beloved games of all time, gave the player over 40 teammates to choose from. With all of the...

    I once played this game called Chrono Cross where the studio, promising a sequel to one of the most beloved games of all time, gave the player over 40 teammates to choose from.

    With all of the character teasers, I'm feeling a little the same. The whole cast is back, the plot will be a mess and while they may pull a tearjerker Celtic soundtrack out of this schmoz, I don't think it'll be enough.

    11 votes
    1. [6]
      zod000
      Link Parent
      Chrono Cross was actually pretty great, but was pretty disconnected as far as a sequel goes. I don't think Chrono Trigger really left much open for a proper sequel though, it was a near perfect...

      Chrono Cross was actually pretty great, but was pretty disconnected as far as a sequel goes. I don't think Chrono Trigger really left much open for a proper sequel though, it was a near perfect stand alone game.

      5 votes
      1. [5]
        kingofsnake
        Link Parent
        The fact that my red meat criticism of a mixed review game received 10 upvotes and one comment meant that my provocation worked! Lol, it wasn't a terrible game. The two worlds idea, the...

        The fact that my red meat criticism of a mixed review game received 10 upvotes and one comment meant that my provocation worked!

        Lol, it wasn't a terrible game. The two worlds idea, the Chronopolis Robo tie in, Schala -- those are all pretty cool throwbacks to CT. I'm just at a loss to understand why Cross wasn't a more cohesive creative concept.

        Nomura gets points for ambition, but even for young me in 1999, each chapter of the game led me further and further away from believing in his vision. Despite a great battle system and gameplay elements, I couldn't shake the nagging feeling that I was playing a total mess.

        5 votes
        1. [4]
          zod000
          Link Parent
          You definitely are correct that part of the game lacked cohesion, but I guess my take is that it was a flawed, but still great game. In that way it reminds me of Xenogears in many ways, which came...

          You definitely are correct that part of the game lacked cohesion, but I guess my take is that it was a flawed, but still great game. In that way it reminds me of Xenogears in many ways, which came out the previous year. Both games has an excellent battle system, intriguing story ideas, phenomenal soundtrack, but felt rushed and some part were either missing or just needed more time to get right.

          3 votes
          1. [3]
            kingofsnake
            Link Parent
            Totally true - didn't CC's creator have a hand in Xenogears too? It was sort of a hallmark of RPGs at the time. Heavy on god killing and lore, and a forebearer to the plot twists that'd arrive...

            Totally true - didn't CC's creator have a hand in Xenogears too?

            It was sort of a hallmark of RPGs at the time. Heavy on god killing and lore, and a forebearer to the plot twists that'd arrive with PS2 titles (Sin the whale protagonist dead the whole time?? Anyone??).

            I sorta love all of the flailing of AAA games back then but replaying today them ain't easy.

            2 votes
            1. [2]
              zod000
              Link Parent
              No, that was a different person (Takahashi), he is the main guy behind all of the "Xeno" games. That being said, yes, that was totally a big vibe back in the day. I also love FF X, so I guess I am...

              No, that was a different person (Takahashi), he is the main guy behind all of the "Xeno" games. That being said, yes, that was totally a big vibe back in the day. I also love FF X, so I guess I am a fan of the "god killing and lore" lol

              2 votes
              1. kingofsnake
                Link Parent
                Not sure if you're a Retronauts listener, but they did a great podcast a while back about the Japanese relationship to religion and how that bore out in 90s and 00 era RPGs. Great listen....

                Not sure if you're a Retronauts listener, but they did a great podcast a while back about the Japanese relationship to religion and how that bore out in 90s and 00 era RPGs. Great listen.

                https://retronauts.com/article/2360/retronauts-episode-672-attack-dethrone-god-book-11

                1 vote
  3. [4]
    Grayscail
    Link
    Damn they really arent doing any favors to Black Panther with that hair style. Im also surprised that theyre still doing these "_____ will return in Doomsday" promos like a year later. I still...

    Damn they really arent doing any favors to Black Panther with that hair style.

    Im also surprised that theyre still doing these "_____ will return in Doomsday" promos like a year later.

    I still have no idea what this movie is going to be about at all. Although the fact that Doom is in this and Wakanda is in this makes me hope that they adapt Doomwar #3 because thats one of my favorite Dr. Doom comics.

    6 votes
    1. chundissimo
      Link Parent
      Oh wow I didn’t even consider a Doomwar adaptation! I highly doubt it but that would be sick

      Oh wow I didn’t even consider a Doomwar adaptation! I highly doubt it but that would be sick

      4 votes
    2. [2]
      DefinitelyNotAFae
      Link Parent
      Idk what you mean? I like her braids and thought the lines looked clean but I could be missing something.

      Damn they really arent doing any favors to Black Panther with that hair style.

      Idk what you mean? I like her braids and thought the lines looked clean but I could be missing something.

      3 votes
      1. Grayscail
        Link Parent
        I dont really mean anything other than that I think it looks bad. But thats just a personal opinion.

        I dont really mean anything other than that I think it looks bad. But thats just a personal opinion.