From what I've seen just in the indictment the amount of firsthand evidence they have is staggering. I don't want to get my hopes up and say this is finally going to be the stuff that brings him...
Exemplary
From what I've seen just in the indictment the amount of firsthand evidence they have is staggering.
I don't want to get my hopes up and say this is finally going to be the stuff that brings him down, but if this can't nothing can.
Edit: If you want a succint summary of things, here is a great video on the subject.
The evidence listed in the indictment is damning. It's an open and shut case. That said, he has Judge Cannon and he only needs one juror who doesn't care what the evidence is. So justice depends...
The evidence listed in the indictment is damning. It's an open and shut case. That said, he has Judge Cannon and he only needs one juror who doesn't care what the evidence is. So justice depends on a fair trial and the lack of jury nullification. We'll see at the end of this whether justice prevails and the banner yet waves.
Personally, I have hope for this, but I have more hope for the case in Georgia. A nice detail is that a president cannot pardon a state crime, and specifically in Georgia, the governor has no...
We also have not yet seen the result of the investigation about January 6. If that case goes to trial, the trial will be held in DC, which would be an advantage for the government over Trump.
During the Mueller investigation and impeachments, Bill Barr and the republicans acted as spoilers.
This case with the documents looks damning, and Trump was out of office by the time he obstructed the government's attempt to get the documents back. Sadly if they keep this judge Cannon, there are things she can do to derail the process. See this article and especially the section towards the end with the heading Rule 29 acquittal. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/12/judge-aileen-cannon-trump-documents-case-00101641
That video was really interesting, thanks for sharing it. I was aware that it was bad but not quite that bad. I'm rather curious as to what the result of this will be, and can't help but feel that...
That video was really interesting, thanks for sharing it.
I was aware that it was bad but not quite that bad. I'm rather curious as to what the result of this will be, and can't help but feel that if or when he gets sentenced, there may be quite some uproar in certain red states in the US.
I feel like I’ve heard the “we got him this time” thing way too many times with Trump. Admittedly this seems the most promising but I can’t get excited until he’s actually punished with jail time...
I feel like I’ve heard the “we got him this time” thing way too many times with Trump. Admittedly this seems the most promising but I can’t get excited until he’s actually punished with jail time and I still just can’t see that happening.
It's like how David Cross said he wouldn't believe they made Season 4 of Arrested Development until the end credits were rolling at the premier. I've been conditioned to not feel any optimism...
It's like how David Cross said he wouldn't believe they made Season 4 of Arrested Development until the end credits were rolling at the premier. I've been conditioned to not feel any optimism about anything related to Trump since the election night in 2016.
The requirements to be president are extremely narrow. They don't mention anything about a criminal record. There's even precedent, I've heard. There was someone, Eugene V Debbs, who ran a failed...
There's even precedent, I've heard. There was someone, Eugene V Debbs, who ran a failed candidacy from prison.
So, it seems, we're in a position where we could have the first president-elect who is no only a convicted felon but in prison at the time of his presidency.
I can't even imagine how terrible this would be on so many levels, particularly given the monstrosity that is Trump.
On a serious level, how would the government function with the President in prison? Would congress just write up a law to free him? It would be crazy, not that I want to see it but I'm very...
On a serious level, how would the government function with the President in prison? Would congress just write up a law to free him? It would be crazy, not that I want to see it but I'm very curious what the consequences would actually look like.
I imagine if we were in a state of being where a convicted in-prison Trump won an election we would probably cease to have the country that we understand now anyway and would probably devolve into chaos.
I mean, if mob bosses can run their cartels from prison while keeping it all under the rug, I cannot imagine you can't run the office of the president from prison since you wouldn't need to hide...
On a serious level, how would the government function with the President in prison?
I mean, if mob bosses can run their cartels from prison while keeping it all under the rug, I cannot imagine you can't run the office of the president from prison since you wouldn't need to hide that in any way.
But think about the functionality of it. Would his prison cell demand a desk, computer, phoneline, etc.? Would they have to build a private wing of an existing complex to accommodate the needs of...
But think about the functionality of it. Would his prison cell demand a desk, computer, phoneline, etc.? Would they have to build a private wing of an existing complex to accommodate the needs of the office?
How would he meet foreign dignitaries?
I have so many questions for how this would actually work.
What are the odds of not getting a MAGA full believing, trump is the second coming of the messiah-juror in Florida? Just because trump did it, does not mean he is guilty.
What are the odds of not getting a MAGA full believing, trump is the second coming of the messiah-juror in Florida?
Just because trump did it, does not mean he is guilty.
I have a security clearance (ironically, the Q Access Authorization of QAnon infamy). If I have a box of nuclear weapon design information in my downstairs bathroom, I would be sitting in prison...
I have a security clearance (ironically, the Q Access Authorization of QAnon infamy). If I have a box of nuclear weapon design information in my downstairs bathroom, I would be sitting in prison right now. This is an extremely serious breach. I hope Trump is convicted and sentenced accordingly.
Have politicians ever been held to the same standard as regular federal employees? It’s kind of crazy how much training and vetting gets done for the working joes but with politicians we’re just...
Have politicians ever been held to the same standard as regular federal employees? It’s kind of crazy how much training and vetting gets done for the working joes but with politicians we’re just like “well the people have spoken, here’s the nuclear codes”.
I know that’s how a democracy functions but it’s just kinda crazy. I still can’t believe Donald Trump of all people held the highest position of our government.
Generally no, due to a combination of: They write the classification rules (seriously. Most classified information is controlled per executive orders or secretarial interpretation). You run into...
Generally no, due to a combination of:
They write the classification rules (seriously. Most classified information is controlled per executive orders or secretarial interpretation).
You run into constitutional issues with respect to punishing elected officials.
With Trump, his own behavior refusing to return the documents and conspiring to obstruct justice and cover up the classified documents implicates him to the point that it's obvious he intended to...
With Trump, his own behavior refusing to return the documents and conspiring to obstruct justice and cover up the classified documents implicates him to the point that it's obvious he intended to take those documents, and he's more or less said exactly that.
But what's the deal with Pence and Biden who seem to have accidentally taken documents, were surprised to learn they had them, and immediately returned them?
Is it really easy to accidentally have classified documents laying around?
Asking cause you might actually know. As a civilian, I'm just shocked at the general carelessness of our politicians. You can add to that MTG walking out of a SCIF with notes for a press conference and Hillary's emails too I guess.
Yeah, like a summary video by a lawyer said, despite how much you're not allowed to do this, it happens that someone takes a classified document home, and had Trump actually acknowledged that and...
With Trump, his own behavior refusing to return the documents and conspiring to obstruct justice and cover up the classified documents implicates him to the point that it's obvious he intended to take those documents, and he's more or less said exactly that.
But what's the deal with Pence and Biden who seem to have accidentally taken documents, were surprised to learn they had them, and immediately returned them?
Yeah, like a summary video by a lawyer said, despite how much you're not allowed to do this, it happens that someone takes a classified document home, and had Trump actually acknowledged that and returned the documents when prompted, there's a very good chance nothing would have happened. I mean I wonder why it happens but I guess if they fully prosecuted everyone who had 1 classified page in a stack of non-classified once they took with them they'd be clogging up the justice department so it's a decision of practicality to just ask for return or something. 🤷
But, the problem was Trump not only saying he did return everything when in fact he intentionally did not, but also multiple times obstructing the agencies attempts to recover the documents, conspiring to intentionally withhold them and/or declassify them despite being not allowed to do this (so probably leaking them?), and even going so far as to intentionally lie to his lawyer making a sworn statement about the return and suggesting to him he "plucks" the problematic document out of the stack he's taking with him to return.
It's a really good showcase of how the fucked up mind of Trump works, tbh. And why he is the way he is. He's a bit coocoo, but couples that with an insane amount of bravado and ego, but also a terminal level of stupidity. I mean he did all the talk with his valet about all this shit in text messages!
Those that do, have a SCIF built in their home so they can legally and securely access that information. There is no such thing as taking classified documents out of a SCIF for official purposes....
Those that do, have a SCIF built in their home so they can legally and securely access that information.
There is no such thing as taking classified documents out of a SCIF for official purposes. It's either an accident or intentional. The only time a document can ever leave the physical spaces of a SCIF is inside a classified courier bag, which has it's own rules, one being the bag may never be opened outside of a SCIF.
There can be a lot of weirdness associated with classification. You could write a report that’s unclassified, but if your boss adds more information to it, it becomes Secret. It’s called...
There can be a lot of weirdness associated with classification. You could write a report that’s unclassified, but if your boss adds more information to it, it becomes Secret. It’s called classification by compilation (See here for more info).
I seem to recall with Hillary Clinton (haven’t heard that name in a while) that some of her emails just had portion markings (a little U, C, S, or TS at the beginning of each paragraph or section denoting the classification level for that part). Sloppy marking can get you in trouble too.
For those not previously familiar with reading legal documents, or with the ins and outs of information security classification standards, lawfare did an exceptional breakdown of the indictment...
For those not previously familiar with reading legal documents, or with the ins and outs of information security classification standards, lawfare did an exceptional breakdown of the indictment with experts on both matters.
https://mstdn.social/@Popehat@mastodon.social/110539102449838030 #DIDYOUKNOW If a publication runs a big headline reporting someone entered a not guilty plea at their first court appearance, as if...
#DIDYOUKNOW If a publication runs a big headline reporting someone entered a not guilty plea at their first court appearance, as if that’s news, you are legally permitted to punch the managing editor in the crotch three (3) times
From what I've seen just in the indictment the amount of firsthand evidence they have is staggering.
I don't want to get my hopes up and say this is finally going to be the stuff that brings him down, but if this can't nothing can.
Edit: If you want a succint summary of things, here is a great video on the subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KRceywz-rU
The evidence listed in the indictment is damning. It's an open and shut case. That said, he has Judge Cannon and he only needs one juror who doesn't care what the evidence is. So justice depends on a fair trial and the lack of jury nullification. We'll see at the end of this whether justice prevails and the banner yet waves.
Personally, I have hope for this, but I have more hope for the case in Georgia. A nice detail is that a president cannot pardon a state crime, and specifically in Georgia, the governor has no pardon power. https://www.vox.com/politics/2023/6/4/23748503/georgia-trump-investigation-rico
We also have not yet seen the result of the investigation about January 6. If that case goes to trial, the trial will be held in DC, which would be an advantage for the government over Trump.
During the Mueller investigation and impeachments, Bill Barr and the republicans acted as spoilers.
This case with the documents looks damning, and Trump was out of office by the time he obstructed the government's attempt to get the documents back. Sadly if they keep this judge Cannon, there are things she can do to derail the process. See this article and especially the section towards the end with the heading Rule 29 acquittal. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/12/judge-aileen-cannon-trump-documents-case-00101641
Federal criminal procedure is not my area of expertise, but Judge Cannon has a lot of power here and she has in the past shown herself biased in favor of Trump. https://www.wctrib.com/opinion/editorials/american-opinion-judge-in-documents-case-is-clearly-playing-for-team-trump-she-shouldnt-preside
That video was really interesting, thanks for sharing it.
I was aware that it was bad but not quite that bad. I'm rather curious as to what the result of this will be, and can't help but feel that if or when he gets sentenced, there may be quite some uproar in certain red states in the US.
I feel like I’ve heard the “we got him this time” thing way too many times with Trump. Admittedly this seems the most promising but I can’t get excited until he’s actually punished with jail time and I still just can’t see that happening.
It's like how David Cross said he wouldn't believe they made Season 4 of Arrested Development until the end credits were rolling at the premier. I've been conditioned to not feel any optimism about anything related to Trump since the election night in 2016.
Leagleagle is great!
He can still run for president from prison.
America doesn't have a law about convicted felons not being eligible to run for office?
They can be used as slave labor and they can't vote but they can run the country. What a wondrous fantasy land we've created here.
The requirements to be president are extremely narrow. They don't mention anything about a criminal record.
There's even precedent, I've heard. There was someone, Eugene V Debbs, who ran a failed candidacy from prison.
So, it seems, we're in a position where we could have the first president-elect who is no only a convicted felon but in prison at the time of his presidency.
I can't even imagine how terrible this would be on so many levels, particularly given the monstrosity that is Trump.
On a serious level, how would the government function with the President in prison? Would congress just write up a law to free him? It would be crazy, not that I want to see it but I'm very curious what the consequences would actually look like.
I imagine if we were in a state of being where a convicted in-prison Trump won an election we would probably cease to have the country that we understand now anyway and would probably devolve into chaos.
I imagine same. Trump has been an end-of-days candidate and president. He'll burn it all so long as he has his health cult cheering him on.
I mean, if mob bosses can run their cartels from prison while keeping it all under the rug, I cannot imagine you can't run the office of the president from prison since you wouldn't need to hide that in any way.
But think about the functionality of it. Would his prison cell demand a desk, computer, phoneline, etc.? Would they have to build a private wing of an existing complex to accommodate the needs of the office?
How would he meet foreign dignitaries?
I have so many questions for how this would actually work.
I imagine his VP may immediately take power and then pardon him, then let him run the country.
Gotta love LegalEagle.
I keep saying it's a litmus test for Rule of Law.
What are the odds of not getting a MAGA full believing, trump is the second coming of the messiah-juror in Florida?
Just because trump did it, does not mean he is guilty.
I have a security clearance (ironically, the Q Access Authorization of QAnon infamy). If I have a box of nuclear weapon design information in my downstairs bathroom, I would be sitting in prison right now. This is an extremely serious breach. I hope Trump is convicted and sentenced accordingly.
Have politicians ever been held to the same standard as regular federal employees? It’s kind of crazy how much training and vetting gets done for the working joes but with politicians we’re just like “well the people have spoken, here’s the nuclear codes”.
I know that’s how a democracy functions but it’s just kinda crazy. I still can’t believe Donald Trump of all people held the highest position of our government.
Generally no, due to a combination of:
With Trump, his own behavior refusing to return the documents and conspiring to obstruct justice and cover up the classified documents implicates him to the point that it's obvious he intended to take those documents, and he's more or less said exactly that.
But what's the deal with Pence and Biden who seem to have accidentally taken documents, were surprised to learn they had them, and immediately returned them?
Is it really easy to accidentally have classified documents laying around?
Asking cause you might actually know. As a civilian, I'm just shocked at the general carelessness of our politicians. You can add to that MTG walking out of a SCIF with notes for a press conference and Hillary's emails too I guess.
Yeah, like a summary video by a lawyer said, despite how much you're not allowed to do this, it happens that someone takes a classified document home, and had Trump actually acknowledged that and returned the documents when prompted, there's a very good chance nothing would have happened. I mean I wonder why it happens but I guess if they fully prosecuted everyone who had 1 classified page in a stack of non-classified once they took with them they'd be clogging up the justice department so it's a decision of practicality to just ask for return or something. 🤷
But, the problem was Trump not only saying he did return everything when in fact he intentionally did not, but also multiple times obstructing the agencies attempts to recover the documents, conspiring to intentionally withhold them and/or declassify them despite being not allowed to do this (so probably leaking them?), and even going so far as to intentionally lie to his lawyer making a sworn statement about the return and suggesting to him he "plucks" the problematic document out of the stack he's taking with him to return.
It's a really good showcase of how the fucked up mind of Trump works, tbh. And why he is the way he is. He's a bit coocoo, but couples that with an insane amount of bravado and ego, but also a terminal level of stupidity. I mean he did all the talk with his valet about all this shit in text messages!
I imagine high up politicians would have a legitimate reason to have certain documents on hand at home.
Those that do, have a SCIF built in their home so they can legally and securely access that information.
There is no such thing as taking classified documents out of a SCIF for official purposes. It's either an accident or intentional. The only time a document can ever leave the physical spaces of a SCIF is inside a classified courier bag, which has it's own rules, one being the bag may never be opened outside of a SCIF.
There can be a lot of weirdness associated with classification. You could write a report that’s unclassified, but if your boss adds more information to it, it becomes Secret. It’s called classification by compilation (See here for more info).
I seem to recall with Hillary Clinton (haven’t heard that name in a while) that some of her emails just had portion markings (a little U, C, S, or TS at the beginning of each paragraph or section denoting the classification level for that part). Sloppy marking can get you in trouble too.
If he wriggles out if this then I will officially stop expecting him to be held accountable to the law. The evidence is copious and damning.
See my reply above.
The first step of many consequential ones, I am glad to finally see him facing some kind of justice.
For those not previously familiar with reading legal documents, or with the ins and outs of information security classification standards, lawfare did an exceptional breakdown of the indictment with experts on both matters.
Available on itunes, Google, or other fine podcast purveyors near you:
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5hY2FzdC5jb20vcHVibGljL3Nob3dzLzYwNTE4YTUyZjY5YWE4MTVkMmRiYTQxYw/episode/NjQ4ODAyZWZjZDNkM2IwMDExNjM5MDYz?ep=14
An absolutely shocking turn of events.
https://mstdn.social/@Popehat@mastodon.social/110539102449838030
#DIDYOUKNOW If a publication runs a big headline reporting someone entered a not guilty plea at their first court appearance, as if that’s news, you are legally permitted to punch the managing editor in the crotch three (3) times
Ken White