55 votes

South Korean president declares emergency martial law

35 comments

  1. Raspcoffee
    Link
    Amidst the chaos, it seems that 190 of the 300 lawmakers have voted to cancel martial law. It seems like that the 190 ones were present, meaning that of the other 110 they were not present....

    Amidst the chaos, it seems that 190 of the 300 lawmakers have voted to cancel martial law.
    It seems like that the 190 ones were present, meaning that of the other 110 they were not present.

    Incidentally, I've seen some footage where the police had first blocked the entrance. Now employees of the parliament are preventing the military from entering. Some other footage I've seen(well allegedly, can't verify anything) included a SK law maker just pushing a gun away from a soldier.

    If this is true, which I can't verify, I doubt that the military is really behind it.

    28 votes
  2. [7]
    Raspcoffee
    (edited )
    Link
    I'm amazed by how blunt this move is, and how rapidly escalating it is. I remember reading of some political issues about this before, but to then full on declare martial law? If even his own...

    I'm amazed by how blunt this move is, and how rapidly escalating it is. I remember reading of some political issues about this before, but to then full on declare martial law?

    The move drew immediate opposition from politicians, including the leader of his own conservative party, Han Dong-hoon, who called the decision “wrong” and vowed to “stop it with the people.”

    If even his own party can't stand behind it, this seems like a really risky move for not just him but for his country??? I have to wonder what his thought process was on this.

    Does anyone know whether a court or the parliament in South Korea can cancel the martial law? I can't seem to find it in the current articles present on this, and that seems rather critical right now.

    Edit: police has blockaded the parliament it seems: The Guardian liveblog

    27 votes
    1. [2]
      IudexMiku
      Link Parent
      It comes across as a desperate power grab while he still has it. AP News says the parliament can vote to end martial law, but also that the South Korean military would prevent political gatherings...

      It comes across as a desperate power grab while he still has it.

      AP News says the parliament can vote to end martial law, but also that the South Korean military would prevent political gatherings such as the parliament voting. So I'm not clear if this can end until the president changes his mind.

      16 votes
      1. Raspcoffee
        Link Parent
        Welp, if so we'll have to see in the next 72 hours if this is a full fledged coup attempt or the dumbest political he could make. Not even a week after the rebels make massive gains in Syria too....

        Welp, if so we'll have to see in the next 72 hours if this is a full fledged coup attempt or the dumbest political he could make.

        Not even a week after the rebels make massive gains in Syria too. Man, even for this decade 2024 has been wild.

        16 votes
    2. [4]
      Eji1700
      Link Parent
      Same as any other coup. I have the military, I don't need anything else. Seems like he might be right so far, although I only just started really looking into it.

      If even his own party can't stand behind it, this seems like a really risky move for not just him but for his country??? I have to wonder what his thought process was on this.

      Same as any other coup. I have the military, I don't need anything else.

      Seems like he might be right so far, although I only just started really looking into it.

      8 votes
      1. [3]
        Raspcoffee
        Link Parent
        See that's the thing... I'd agree with you, if that'd actually appear to be the case convincingly. But the fact that the parliamentarians were first blockaded out of the National Assembly, forced...

        Same as any other coup. I have the military, I don't need anything else.

        See that's the thing... I'd agree with you, if that'd actually appear to be the case convincingly. But the fact that the parliamentarians were first blockaded out of the National Assembly, forced their way in, and now have barricaded themselves inside well - maybe he thought that since he may have had one general on his side that it'd be okay? Difficult to say what he was thinking(if he was...) when the situation is developing like this.

        8 votes
        1. [2]
          Eji1700
          Link Parent
          Yeah at the time it was "Well the military is leaving the congress, but still going to enforce martial law" which seemed like enough for him, but as of most recent developments seems like he's fucked.

          Yeah at the time it was "Well the military is leaving the congress, but still going to enforce martial law" which seemed like enough for him, but as of most recent developments seems like he's fucked.

          5 votes
          1. Raspcoffee
            Link Parent
            You mean the thing like, barely 10 minutes ago that the President is revoking martial law?...

            You mean the thing like, barely 10 minutes ago that the President is revoking martial law? https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/dec/03/south-korea-declares-emergency-martial-law-yoon-suk-yeol-north-korea-latest-updates?CMP=share_btn_url&page=with%3Ablock-674f5d1a8f086e00842ca3ee#block-674f5d1a8f086e00842ca3ee

            Yeah. He is going down in history as a wannabe dictator now. Serves him right.

            12 votes
  3. [2]
    DavesWorld
    Link
    So if I'm reading this right, very casually and briefly, Yoon is a right winger who won the '22 presidential election, and saw his party get hammered in the '24 parliamentary elections. There's...

    So if I'm reading this right, very casually and briefly, Yoon is a right winger who won the '22 presidential election, and saw his party get hammered in the '24 parliamentary elections. There's apparently a lot of political scandal accusations in South Korea at the moment, much of it seeming to center around other right wingers or right wing actions. Yoon's party has been criminally pursuing the candidate (Lee Jae-myung) Yoon narrowly defeated in the '22 presidential elections, and who is apparently expected to be "a favorite" in the '27 elections for the office.

    https://apnews.com/article/south-korean-opposition-leader-lee-jae-myung-suspended-prison-sentence-321aa7e383e409edff4bd5924ad73776

    Glancing over those accusations, they seem like they might fit a definition of political vengeance, in that they seem kind of ... weak and something of a reach. But I haven't studied the case closely. Lee's party has apparently been fighting back by trying to impeach key figures in the court actions against Lee, which would be a suitable and justified use of impeachment (to fight corruption). It could also be seen as an abuse of power, if the charges are valid and thus would be corruption to avoid prosecution.

    I note the sentence the court imposed seems to meet what one could assume would be the "minimum" win condition for Yoon, namely removing Lee from politics. Politically, someone desperate for power wouldn't care at all what happened to his likely political opponents, so long as they couldn't legally run for office in opposition. If they're after actual justice, or vengeance, they'd want jail time. That sentence could be read as some kind of compromise (within Yoon's camp, if they are inappropriately influencing things) or even as a warning to Lee (back off or else we make it jail instead of sidelines).

    However, I don't see how anything Lee or his party are doing merits martial law, even if they are guilty or evil or whatever similar description one wishes to employ. That seems like an enormous overreach. Dictatorial one could say. If Lee's part was actively plotting a violent overthrow, yes, martial law would be suitable. If they're simply plotting to win an election, then no, it's not.

    Yoon, who has seen his approval ratings drop to the 20% range in recent weeks, is grappling with his own political scandal. It centers around allegations that he and first lady Kim Keon Hee exerted inappropriate influence on the People Power Party to pick a certain candidate to run for a parliamentary by-election in 2022 at the request of election broker Myung Tae-kyun, who was arrested this week.

    This really reads like a guy who somehow managed to win but saw his mask come off and people turn on him, and who is now willing to abuse both process and democracy just to cling to power. Become a dictator, in so many words. Not that it would be excusable, if he had, say, 60% approval and most of the country agreed with his pursuit of his political opponent. But it would sure as hell give him a better position from which to stand and claim it's necessary to lock the nation down.

    South Korea may well be kicking off the coming wave of devolution of democracy around the world that's been looking like it's building for the last decade or so.

    18 votes
    1. l_one
      Link Parent
      Yeah, which is sad but also a symptom of our current times. It is tentatively looking like this attempt to seize power is going to fail, and I hope that is the case, but even if it does this...

      South Korea may well be kicking off the coming wave of devolution of democracy around the world that's been looking like it's building for the last decade or so.

      Yeah, which is sad but also a symptom of our current times. It is tentatively looking like this attempt to seize power is going to fail, and I hope that is the case, but even if it does this causes quite a bit of harm and destabilization. Man, everything sucks right now.

      11 votes
  4. [2]
    vord
    Link
    I saw this post on Mastodon, and I found it both inspiring and melancholic: Emphasis mine. When the law is wrong, illegal actions are not immoral, they are heroic.

    I saw this post on Mastodon, and I found it both inspiring and melancholic:

    I don't think that yesterday has hurt South Korea's reputation. Lawmakers unanimously voting against martial law, national assembly staff blocking soldiers with fire extinguishers, people taking to the streets to protest while not giving a damn that this is illegal under martial law, the largest umbrella union organization calling a general strike - all this is very impressive.
    They couldn't know whether the army would shoot protesters (as they did in 1980). They risked their lives to protect democracy. So when I see takes like "I thought South Korea was a stable democracy", I think: Which democracy is more trustworthy, one that seems stable from the outside or one where people will actually stand up for democracy?

    Emphasis mine. When the law is wrong, illegal actions are not immoral, they are heroic.

    18 votes
    1. Raspcoffee
      Link Parent
      If anything I'm impressed by the spirit they've shown. Hell, some of the Presidents own party showed up and joined the vote to tell him to fuck off. Also, I really wouldn't be surprised if the...

      If anything I'm impressed by the spirit they've shown. Hell, some of the Presidents own party showed up and joined the vote to tell him to fuck off.

      Also, I really wouldn't be surprised if the opposition party will eventually pass more anti coup measures after this. Normally that can cause issues with the military but right now they may well have a once in a lifetime opportunity for it.

      7 votes
  5. [5]
    sparksbet
    Link
    Well this seems pretty horrifyingly anti-democratic. The Reuters article has some additional information that's not in thie article:

    Well this seems pretty horrifyingly anti-democratic.

    The Reuters article has some additional information that's not in thie article:

    Yoon cited a motion by the country's opposition Democratic Party, which has a majority in parliament, this week to impeach some of the country's top prosecutors and its rejection of a government budget proposal.

    17 votes
    1. [3]
      Promonk
      Link Parent
      I don't know if it's been updated or not, but the AP article now mentions the prosecutorial impeachments and adds: There's no way for me to tell if these calls are or warranted or if they really...

      I don't know if it's been updated or not, but the AP article now mentions the prosecutorial impeachments and adds:

      "Yoon has also dismissed calls for independent investigations into scandals involving his wife and top officials, drawing quick, strong rebukes from his political rivals."

      There's no way for me to tell if these calls are or warranted or if they really do represent political witch-hunting, as he says. A less cynical me would have immediately jumped to "let the system do its job," but my faith in systems isn't what it used to be. I generally tend to default to the anti-anti-democratic camp though, if that makes sense.

      4 votes
      1. [2]
        sparksbet
        Link Parent
        Ah yeah I think they might've added that -- my comment was pretty early in things happening. imo when you decide to (probably illegally?) declare martial law to impede investigations into your...

        Ah yeah I think they might've added that -- my comment was pretty early in things happening.

        imo when you decide to (probably illegally?) declare martial law to impede investigations into your conduct and the conduct of those personally and politically affiliated with you, you basically lose any benefit of the doubt. Especially since he's no stranger to launching investigations against his own political rivals.

        5 votes
        1. Promonk
          Link Parent
          Yeah, I have my suspicions, but I'm completely out of my ken when it comes to Korean culture or politics, so I figured I'd hedge my bets while commenting.

          Yeah, I have my suspicions, but I'm completely out of my ken when it comes to Korean culture or politics, so I figured I'd hedge my bets while commenting.

          3 votes
    2. Minori
      Link Parent
      This is because the opposition was opposed to blank check funding in the budget which they (probably correctly) allege would be used for corrupt purposes by the current presidential administration.

      its rejection of a government budget proposal.

      This is because the opposition was opposed to blank check funding in the budget which they (probably correctly) allege would be used for corrupt purposes by the current presidential administration.

      3 votes
  6. [3]
    sparksbet
    Link
    Apparently the members of the parliament had to essentially break in to the National Assembly in order to vote down martial law. Opposition leader Lee Jae-myung livestreamed himself doing so.

    Apparently the members of the parliament had to essentially break in to the National Assembly in order to vote down martial law. Opposition leader Lee Jae-myung livestreamed himself doing so.

    17 votes
    1. [2]
      Raspcoffee
      Link Parent
      Yeah when it started there were police officers outside. Later on the employees of the National Assembly had barricaded themselves to ensure the parliamentarians could call in session and call the...

      Yeah when it started there were police officers outside. Later on the employees of the National Assembly had barricaded themselves to ensure the parliamentarians could call in session and call the martial law off.

      Really, this looks like an absolute dumbass coup attempt. Not ensuring military and police support beforehand is... basically step zero of such a move. The fact that the media was all over it ensured protests on top of it, and even his own party was like 'bruh wtf'.

      I'm astounded that someone would try and gain control over a country like this.

      12 votes
      1. Promonk
        Link Parent
        I'm not. South Korea was a military dictatorship for nearly thirty years, and functionally for longer. This isn't the first time martial law was declared, though it's the first since the...

        I'm astounded that someone would try and gain control over a country like this.

        I'm not. South Korea was a military dictatorship for nearly thirty years, and functionally for longer. This isn't the first time martial law was declared, though it's the first since the dictatorship was nominally ended.

        In that context it makes sense that the military would at least claim that they should be the arbiters of the legality of martial law and the suspension of habeus corpus (if SK even uses that terminology), whether they can functionally control that or not. Such a declaration might not reflect practical reality at all, so it's difficult to say what it means. I reckon it's as much about affirming their position independent of who prevails as it is covering their institutional asses should the coup succeed. I imagine it's just their default position, in other words.

        I find the fact that this was in part motivated by the doctor's strike interesting, because labor organization has always been a convenient bugbear for reactionary sentiment. I guess we'll find out how deeply anti-socialist sentiment runs in the country with the whack-est communist dictatorship as a neighbor–or occupying half their country for nearly 75 years, depending on how you look at it.

        7 votes
  7. [4]
    Raspcoffee
    Link
    Martial law troops begin to withdraw from parliament building I've seen multiple reports akin to this. If it keeps up like this, this may well end up being one of the dumbest coup attempts ever....

    Martial law troops begin to withdraw from parliament building

    I've seen multiple reports akin to this. If it keeps up like this, this may well end up being one of the dumbest coup attempts ever. Unbelievable...

    13 votes
    1. [3]
      DefinitelyNotAFae
      Link Parent
      Except Now: Same link

      Except Now:

      South Korean military officials say it will maintain martial law until lifted by President

      South Korean military officials have said martial law will remain in effect until lifted by President Yoon Suk Yeol, according to local broadcaster YTN, other local media reports and Agence France-Presse, despite the parliament’s vote to lift it.

      Same link

      7 votes
      1. [2]
        Raspcoffee
        Link Parent
        Yeah, it's weird. They're not really enforcing it either so it's not really like they're maintaining it? If I had to guess the SK military are just as confused as we are by the development.

        Yeah, it's weird. They're not really enforcing it either so it's not really like they're maintaining it? If I had to guess the SK military are just as confused as we are by the development.

        6 votes
        1. sparksbet
          Link Parent
          From what I'm reading (which is mostly journalists repeating what they're seeing in-person or on Korean news), when they voted against martial law the parliament also declared that the initial...

          From what I'm reading (which is mostly journalists repeating what they're seeing in-person or on Korean news), when they voted against martial law the parliament also declared that the initial declaration of martial law was illegal/invalid because it didn't follow proper procedure by getting parliamentary approval. They announced that the military enforcing martial law would be seen as illegal (though what happens from here practically on that front, who knows).

          6 votes
  8. imperialismus
    Link
    This is wild. It's easy to think of South Korea as a bastion of democracy, especially in contrast to its neighbor. But the country has only been a democracy since 1987. Hopefully it will remain one.

    This is wild. It's easy to think of South Korea as a bastion of democracy, especially in contrast to its neighbor. But the country has only been a democracy since 1987. Hopefully it will remain one.

    10 votes
  9. [2]
    Sodliddesu
    Link
    You know, I never thought I'd say "It's good not to live in Seoul right now!" Especially considering the threats of nuclear fire while I was there. But, for real, if you want a laugh look into the...

    You know, I never thought I'd say "It's good not to live in Seoul right now!" Especially considering the threats of nuclear fire while I was there.

    But, for real, if you want a laugh look into the long history of scandal after scandal in Korean politics. I mean, it's not really worse than any other country but it is interesting.

    9 votes
    1. Minori
      Link Parent
      South Korea's national political history may be worse than average. Some countries are more corrupt and scandal-prone than others (see the Philippines).

      it's not really worse than any other country but it is interesting.

      South Korea's national political history may be worse than average. Some countries are more corrupt and scandal-prone than others (see the Philippines).

      5 votes
  10. [6]
    DefinitelyNotAFae
    Link
    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/12/03/world/south-korea-martial-law/2ae235d2-e0ae-54ad-b026-6575a3e19b2d?smid=url-share And President Yoon has said he'll rescind the order as soon as he can...

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/12/03/world/south-korea-martial-law/2ae235d2-e0ae-54ad-b026-6575a3e19b2d?smid=url-share

    And President Yoon has said he'll rescind the order as soon as he can convene his cabinet but the general strike called was demanding his resignation and so are protestors now.

    Idk how he comes out of this other than just refusing to listen. Impeachment? I assume? (I know nothing about SK's government)

    9 votes
    1. [5]
      Raspcoffee
      Link Parent
      I do seem to remember impeachment being mentioned in one article.... somewhere. By this point though, I think I'll wait until summary comes up when it's morning when I am (the Netherlands) to see...

      I do seem to remember impeachment being mentioned in one article.... somewhere. By this point though, I think I'll wait until summary comes up when it's morning when I am (the Netherlands) to see what's being decided out of this shitshow.

      If you had told me yesterday something big would happen today it would've been either the situation in Syria, France or Ukraine and somehow we got South Korea. What a week, in what a year, in what a decade.

      4 votes
      1. [4]
        DefinitelyNotAFae
        Link Parent
        There was something about the parliament having intended to impeach some prosecutors. But yeah it's been weird to watch. I'm used to the US being the location of all the "wtf"

        There was something about the parliament having intended to impeach some prosecutors. But yeah it's been weird to watch. I'm used to the US being the location of all the "wtf"

        4 votes
        1. [3]
          Interesting
          Link Parent
          I mean, there is plenty of "wtf" elsewhere, but not normally our allies in Europe or Eastern Asia.

          I mean, there is plenty of "wtf" elsewhere, but not normally our allies in Europe or Eastern Asia.

          4 votes
          1. Raspcoffee
            Link Parent
            Yeah I'm now almost looking forward to the stuff in France tomorrow, as it'll be the regular political shit show kind and not the big 'wtf' kind like today. ...or so I say, but for all I know I...

            Yeah I'm now almost looking forward to the stuff in France tomorrow, as it'll be the regular political shit show kind and not the big 'wtf' kind like today.

            ...or so I say, but for all I know I just jinxed it.

            4 votes
          2. DefinitelyNotAFae
            Link Parent
            Sure, I'm just used to being the trash fire these days.

            Sure, I'm just used to being the trash fire these days.

            2 votes
  11. cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    South Korea’s ruling party leader calls for suspension of president’s powers in dramatic reversal (CNN) This is looking like it was definitely a failed coup attempt.

    South Korea’s ruling party leader calls for suspension of president’s powers in dramatic reversal (CNN)

    The leader of South Korea’s ruling party said Friday that President Yoon Suk Yeoul needs to be immediately suspended from duty to protect the country from “grave danger,” in a dramatic reversal of opinion that compounds the pressure building on Yoon ahead of a impeachment vote in parliament.

    The apparent U-turn by Han Dong-hoon, chief of Yoon’s own People Power Party, comes after he received “credible evidence” that Yoon had ordered the arrest of key politicians during the short-lived martial law imposed on Tuesday night, Han told reporters Friday.

    “In light of these new emerging facts, I have concluded that it is necessary to suspend President Yoon Suk Yeol’s powers promptly to protect South Korea and its people,” said Yoon, who had earlier opposed the impeachment citing the risk of unrest and chaos.

    “If President Yoon continues to hold the presidency, there is a significant risk that extreme actions like this martial law declaration could be repeated, putting South Korea and its citizens in grave danger,” he added.

    This is looking like it was definitely a failed coup attempt.

    8 votes