I can fully believe it’s got a decent chance at business success, but man does the concept of “discovery based shopping” sound like an awful, wasteful idea. The entire premise seems to be about...
I can fully believe it’s got a decent chance at business success, but man does the concept of “discovery based shopping” sound like an awful, wasteful idea. The entire premise seems to be about buying things you don’t need, and the pricing just encourages people to treat them as disposable as well.
Along the same lines, I also thought it was funny that right as "eat the rich" and all that was starting to catch on a bit more, Temu came along thinking the best option was to sell a bunch of...
Along the same lines, I also thought it was funny that right as "eat the rich" and all that was starting to catch on a bit more, Temu came along thinking the best option was to sell a bunch of Chinese shit for uninspiring prices with the slogan "shop like a billionaire." Interesting marketing tactic.
I just thought it was funny that half the stuff I saw in Temu ads was some gimmick to help with chores, followed by the tagline "shop like a billionaire." Temu, are you telling me that if I buy...
I just thought it was funny that half the stuff I saw in Temu ads was some gimmick to help with chores, followed by the tagline "shop like a billionaire." Temu, are you telling me that if I buy this sponge on a stick I can clean my top cabinets like a billionaire?
I find the entire concept of shopatainment revolting. It is the black heart of what makes capitalism terrible. It reduces people to units of consumption and exploits them relentlessly. I hate...
The importance of discovery-based shopping is that it better mimics the in-store shopping experience and frankly, it’s fun. It’s literally shopatainment, which we’ve written about in the past. And consumers are far more likely to spend time—and consequently money—with apps that they enjoy spending time with.
I find the entire concept of shopatainment revolting. It is the black heart of what makes capitalism terrible. It reduces people to units of consumption and exploits them relentlessly. I hate advertising in general, and this is like someone took everything I hate about it and distilled it into a single dystopian app.
If people enjoy shopping, that's fine, it can be fun to find the thing you want and compare products and discover things you were unaware of. This seems manipulative on a whole different level than normal advertising, which I think is inherently manipulative to begin with.
It’s trying to replicate the experience of browsing the bookstore and finding a new book you’ve never heard of. Or, if you are from the Blockbuster generation, the joy of browsing for the perfect...
It’s trying to replicate the experience of browsing the bookstore and finding a new book you’ve never heard of. Or, if you are from the Blockbuster generation, the joy of browsing for the perfect movie to rent. I’d think a lot of people remember those examples fondly. I’d say the worst part of Temu is it’s all garbage for the price of garbage.
It’s trying to trigger the impulse buying instincts of users in an algorithmically optimised way in order to maximise profit. Any benefit to the consumer is largely incidental, even if it happens...
It’s trying to trigger the impulse buying instincts of users in an algorithmically optimised way in order to maximise profit. Any benefit to the consumer is largely incidental, even if it happens to hit the same parts of the brain.
It’s really interesting that you jumped to books and movies as your example, because both are things you want for the content, not the physical item. I can imagine that kind of discovery UI being a real win for Netflix or Amazon, with little to no customer or environmental downside, actually!
Problem here is applying it to normal retail goods - it’s wasteful almost by definition, in terms of customers’ money and in terms of resources.
You might laugh at Temu, but... I've been following the literature on recommendation systems for a while (e.g. my RSS reader YOShInOn is based on one) and one impression I've had is that research...
You might laugh at Temu, but...
I've been following the literature on recommendation systems for a while (e.g. my RSS reader YOShInOn is based on one) and one impression I've had is that research in China and India is highly active. Just as TikTok has overtaken western social media firms in many ways I think Temu is a real threat to Amazon which I think is slipping in quite a few ways.
Surprised the article didn't mention this, but Temu is basically just an alternative storefront for Alibaba vendors to sell to normal people rather than bulk buyers. It carries most of the exact...
Surprised the article didn't mention this, but Temu is basically just an alternative storefront for Alibaba vendors to sell to normal people rather than bulk buyers. It carries most of the exact same items of dubious quality as Alibaba, but sells them individually and with significantly higher price tags. E.g. Portable Blender Bottle on Temu ($21.49 $10.47) vs Alibaba ($1.85 for 2-99 quantity)
The only real advantage Temu seems to have over Alibaba is that it supposedly avoids the lead time (time it takes to manufacture items to order, pack, and ship them), and the potentially month long total delivery time... if Temu's FAQ about average delivery times is to be believed. But given the products are very likely coming from the exact same manufacturers and locations as on Alibaba, I don't know how much I actually believe that. I will probably order some things from Temu to give it a test though, since I do occasionally order specialized electronics from Alibaba that aren't available from Amazon or any other NA electronics vendors (other than from drop shippers who are getting it all from Alibaba anyways).
So, overall, I don't think Amazon actually has too much to worry about here since their major advantage is still their massive logistics / warehouse network which Temu can't (yet?) compete with, and the next-day or 2-day delivery times that network results in. Amazon's item quality has grown more dubious over the years too, but it's still not quite as bad as the complete roll of the dice that often comes with ordering from Alibaba.
p.s. Incidentally, the reason I looked for the Blender Bottle was because it was recently feature on a Good Mythical Morning video about TikTok scams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvdE7QJcAfk
I just did a bit of digging and I think Temu is owned by Pinduoduo, which is one of Alibaba’s two main competitors, but the upshot is pretty much exactly the same (as are the actual vendors, I’m...
I just did a bit of digging and I think Temu is owned by Pinduoduo, which is one of Alibaba’s two main competitors, but the upshot is pretty much exactly the same (as are the actual vendors, I’m sure - no reason for them to limit themselves to one platform!). Seems like the Temu “innovation” is the UX and the tech behind that, and then the actual listings just feed in from their existing marketplace.
Shipping is an interesting one - makes me wonder if they’re subsidising it as part of that massive marketing budget? AliExpress seem to have got pretty good at bundling up a bunch of different vendors’ orders and efficiently air freighting the lot nowadays, so I can imagine upping the frequency on a system like that rather than waiting for a completely full shipment might get the results Temu are claiming.
In my neck of the woods (Upstate NY) which is 4 hours from a big AMZN warehouse, 2-day Prime shipping has given way to 5-day shipping. I'm sure you get 1-day shipping if you are in a neighborhood...
In my neck of the woods (Upstate NY) which is 4 hours from a big AMZN warehouse, 2-day Prime shipping has given way to 5-day shipping.
I'm sure you get 1-day shipping if you are in a neighborhood of sitcom writers, stock market analysts or congressional staffers though since if the culture producers think AMZN is fast the rest of us for whom AMZN is not fast will think it is "just us".
I ordered a camera lens the other day, a famous camera shop in NYC could get it to me quicker than AMZN could despite that shop being closed for Sukkot! I get Ebay packages from Japan faster than AMZN can get me packages from Pennsylvania.
I live in an unincorporated town in southern Ontario about 40 min away from the nearest major population center and can still consistently get next day shipping. But yeah, I have heard that...
I live in an unincorporated town in southern Ontario about 40 min away from the nearest major population center and can still consistently get next day shipping. But yeah, I have heard that delivery times from Amazon really varies these days in the US. However, Amazon partnered with Canada Post to use their delivery vehicles on weekends so the delivery times here are still really fast for the majority of the country, AFAIK.
Don't worry, I've got over twenty Amazon warehouses within 20 miles of me and B&H can still get a 5D to me faster - at least on a good day. I can never tell if Amazon is going to "Yeah, we'll ship...
Don't worry, I've got over twenty Amazon warehouses within 20 miles of me and B&H can still get a 5D to me faster - at least on a good day. I can never tell if Amazon is going to "Yeah, we'll ship it in two days and then be in shipping for another three!" Me or not. Then sometimes I'll get a one day turn around on something unexpected.
I was really surprised that it took four days to get a pair of headphones delivered to downtown San Francisco when I was there for a conference the other week. Major first world problems, I know,...
I was really surprised that it took four days to get a pair of headphones delivered to downtown San Francisco when I was there for a conference the other week. Major first world problems, I know, but I figured if anywhere would’ve been on the priority list…
We live out in the boonies, but my partner got Amazon Prime to get some things shipped to Melbourne, the second largest city in Australia. We discovered that it's faster to get an Amazon package...
We live out in the boonies, but my partner got Amazon Prime to get some things shipped to Melbourne, the second largest city in Australia. We discovered that it's faster to get an Amazon package delivered by post out here on the farm than it is to get it delivered to an inner city neighborhood in Melbourne using Amazon Prime.
I can't really speak to shopping algorithms or anything like that, as my grasp of the topic is fairly loose. But this topic does speak to me since I was, for many years, a serious and prolific...
I can't really speak to shopping algorithms or anything like that, as my grasp of the topic is fairly loose. But this topic does speak to me since I was, for many years, a serious and prolific online shopper and I'm interested in the subconscious mechanisms that drive people to shop and ultimately make a purchase. The article uses the term "shopatainment", which bothers me a bit since I feel it encourages impulse buying. And of course that leads to more trash, waste and accumulation of junk. I also feel as though this selling tactic feeds on people's emotions. Instead of selling something because people want or need it, they're selling based on how it makes the consumer feel. If the consumer "feels" entertained or satiated somehow, they'll buy. The low prices seem like a siren call that says (in a faint and faraway voice) "you don't have to be rich to buy something that makes you feel gooooooood!" Of course, I've seen Temu ads everywhere and for me, sudden and instantaneous ubiquity breeds suspicion, if not contempt.
I mean that is what Temu does, it uses entertainment to get people hooked on spending money on their platform. Which is highlighted in this video by No Text To Speech. He literally shows how Temu...
I mean that is what Temu does, it uses entertainment to get people hooked on spending money on their platform. Which is highlighted in this video by No Text To Speech. He literally shows how Temu gets people to waste their money on random junk. And it also explains how Temu got as big as it is now. And as @literallytwisted says, it is literally gambling without the gambling part because it uses the same part of the brain that casinos exploit.
Agreed. I feel as though another example of this is when any app/platform/website uses the reward system (psychological) to drive consumers. Like, I don't need to hear tinkling bells and see...
Agreed. I feel as though another example of this is when any app/platform/website uses the reward system (psychological) to drive consumers. Like, I don't need to hear tinkling bells and see confetti burst on my screen after I've spent money or bought those granny panty underwear I need for my aging butt. This type of tactic feels so manipulative, it makes those old shopping incentive tactics from the days of yore (I'm in my late 40s) feel downright pedestrian.
It's worth noting that Temu's sister company, that allegedly shares a lot of engineers with their current app, has had it's fair share of controversy:...
Jesus Christ, "this other, similar app looks way worse so like, this one's probably fine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" I'm legitimately surprised there was no mention of stolen card numbers.... I think it was a...
Jesus Christ, "this other, similar app looks way worse so like, this one's probably fine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
I'm legitimately surprised there was no mention of stolen card numbers.... I think it was a reddit thread a while back where dozens of commenters said they/someone they knew had fraudulent activity on the cards tied to Temu a day or two after their first purchase there. I guess it's still just rumors for now, but not even the ads feel above board imo.
Yeah, I remember hearing/reading about stolen card details too, but all through hearsay on social media at the moment so I didn't want to mention it too much in fear of de legitimizing any of the...
Yeah, I remember hearing/reading about stolen card details too, but all through hearsay on social media at the moment so I didn't want to mention it too much in fear of de legitimizing any of the other concerns.
That's fair, though the average Temu target is probably going to respond more to "your card number might get stolen," than they will to "your data might get sold," regardless of which is actually...
That's fair, though the average Temu target is probably going to respond more to "your card number might get stolen," than they will to "your data might get sold," regardless of which is actually the bigger problem/is more likely. More and more the latter seems to be met with "yeah, and?" since all our data is already floating around out there anyway.
I have used Temu before and can attest to the fact that it's essentially a site that makes it easier to buy stuff you'd see on Alibaba/Aliexpress and get it faster. Similar products but I'd say...
I have used Temu before and can attest to the fact that it's essentially a site that makes it easier to buy stuff you'd see on Alibaba/Aliexpress and get it faster. Similar products but I'd say the collection on Temu is more curated. I can also confirm you receive your items typically quite a bit faster than you would off of Aliexpress (7-12 days is what I've experienced from Temu, and 15-30 often from Aliexpress depending on seller/service). I also think their selection/info/etc tends to be better than Wish.
I've only gotten simple things from there (water tester, rubber drain stopper, etc) and have been satisfied.
So after learning that, I've thought twice about getting anything from there again. That said- any number of products we buy anywhere- a lot of them probably have sources with similar potential problems... so, I'm not calling necessarily for a boycott- just that as someone that values workers' rights pretty highly, I'd rather not ignore it.
Plenty of people on TikTok and other places are taking these items from Temu/Alibaba/Aliexpress and re-selling them at huge markups though- so beware of that. (Products like a bottle that were $7 on Temu you can find being rebranded and resold for $30+)
I can fully believe it’s got a decent chance at business success, but man does the concept of “discovery based shopping” sound like an awful, wasteful idea. The entire premise seems to be about buying things you don’t need, and the pricing just encourages people to treat them as disposable as well.
Along the same lines, I also thought it was funny that right as "eat the rich" and all that was starting to catch on a bit more, Temu came along thinking the best option was to sell a bunch of Chinese shit for uninspiring prices with the slogan "shop like a billionaire." Interesting marketing tactic.
I would wager a large portion of the population Temu is being advertised to has never heard the phrase "eat the rich."
I just thought it was funny that half the stuff I saw in Temu ads was some gimmick to help with chores, followed by the tagline "shop like a billionaire." Temu, are you telling me that if I buy this sponge on a stick I can clean my top cabinets like a billionaire?
I find the entire concept of shopatainment revolting. It is the black heart of what makes capitalism terrible. It reduces people to units of consumption and exploits them relentlessly. I hate advertising in general, and this is like someone took everything I hate about it and distilled it into a single dystopian app.
If people enjoy shopping, that's fine, it can be fun to find the thing you want and compare products and discover things you were unaware of. This seems manipulative on a whole different level than normal advertising, which I think is inherently manipulative to begin with.
It’s trying to replicate the experience of browsing the bookstore and finding a new book you’ve never heard of. Or, if you are from the Blockbuster generation, the joy of browsing for the perfect movie to rent. I’d think a lot of people remember those examples fondly. I’d say the worst part of Temu is it’s all garbage for the price of garbage.
It’s trying to trigger the impulse buying instincts of users in an algorithmically optimised way in order to maximise profit. Any benefit to the consumer is largely incidental, even if it happens to hit the same parts of the brain.
It’s really interesting that you jumped to books and movies as your example, because both are things you want for the content, not the physical item. I can imagine that kind of discovery UI being a real win for Netflix or Amazon, with little to no customer or environmental downside, actually!
Problem here is applying it to normal retail goods - it’s wasteful almost by definition, in terms of customers’ money and in terms of resources.
You might laugh at Temu, but...
I've been following the literature on recommendation systems for a while (e.g. my RSS reader YOShInOn is based on one) and one impression I've had is that research in China and India is highly active. Just as TikTok has overtaken western social media firms in many ways I think Temu is a real threat to Amazon which I think is slipping in quite a few ways.
Surprised the article didn't mention this, but Temu is basically just an alternative storefront for Alibaba vendors to sell to normal people rather than bulk buyers. It carries most of the exact same items of dubious quality as Alibaba, but sells them individually and with significantly higher price tags. E.g. Portable Blender Bottle on Temu (
$21.49$10.47) vs Alibaba ($1.85 for 2-99 quantity)The only real advantage Temu seems to have over Alibaba is that it supposedly avoids the lead time (time it takes to manufacture items to order, pack, and ship them), and the potentially month long total delivery time... if Temu's FAQ about average delivery times is to be believed. But given the products are very likely coming from the exact same manufacturers and locations as on Alibaba, I don't know how much I actually believe that. I will probably order some things from Temu to give it a test though, since I do occasionally order specialized electronics from Alibaba that aren't available from Amazon or any other NA electronics vendors (other than from drop shippers who are getting it all from Alibaba anyways).
So, overall, I don't think Amazon actually has too much to worry about here since their major advantage is still their massive logistics / warehouse network which Temu can't (yet?) compete with, and the next-day or 2-day delivery times that network results in. Amazon's item quality has grown more dubious over the years too, but it's still not quite as bad as the complete roll of the dice that often comes with ordering from Alibaba.
p.s. Incidentally, the reason I looked for the Blender Bottle was because it was recently feature on a Good Mythical Morning video about TikTok scams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvdE7QJcAfk
I just did a bit of digging and I think Temu is owned by Pinduoduo, which is one of Alibaba’s two main competitors, but the upshot is pretty much exactly the same (as are the actual vendors, I’m sure - no reason for them to limit themselves to one platform!). Seems like the Temu “innovation” is the UX and the tech behind that, and then the actual listings just feed in from their existing marketplace.
Shipping is an interesting one - makes me wonder if they’re subsidising it as part of that massive marketing budget? AliExpress seem to have got pretty good at bundling up a bunch of different vendors’ orders and efficiently air freighting the lot nowadays, so I can imagine upping the frequency on a system like that rather than waiting for a completely full shipment might get the results Temu are claiming.
In my neck of the woods (Upstate NY) which is 4 hours from a big AMZN warehouse, 2-day Prime shipping has given way to 5-day shipping.
I'm sure you get 1-day shipping if you are in a neighborhood of sitcom writers, stock market analysts or congressional staffers though since if the culture producers think AMZN is fast the rest of us for whom AMZN is not fast will think it is "just us".
I ordered a camera lens the other day, a famous camera shop in NYC could get it to me quicker than AMZN could despite that shop being closed for Sukkot! I get Ebay packages from Japan faster than AMZN can get me packages from Pennsylvania.
I live in an unincorporated town in southern Ontario about 40 min away from the nearest major population center and can still consistently get next day shipping. But yeah, I have heard that delivery times from Amazon really varies these days in the US. However, Amazon partnered with Canada Post to use their delivery vehicles on weekends so the delivery times here are still really fast for the majority of the country, AFAIK.
Don't worry, I've got over twenty Amazon warehouses within 20 miles of me and B&H can still get a 5D to me faster - at least on a good day. I can never tell if Amazon is going to "Yeah, we'll ship it in two days and then be in shipping for another three!" Me or not. Then sometimes I'll get a one day turn around on something unexpected.
I was really surprised that it took four days to get a pair of headphones delivered to downtown San Francisco when I was there for a conference the other week. Major first world problems, I know, but I figured if anywhere would’ve been on the priority list…
We live out in the boonies, but my partner got Amazon Prime to get some things shipped to Melbourne, the second largest city in Australia. We discovered that it's faster to get an Amazon package delivered by post out here on the farm than it is to get it delivered to an inner city neighborhood in Melbourne using Amazon Prime.
I can't really speak to shopping algorithms or anything like that, as my grasp of the topic is fairly loose. But this topic does speak to me since I was, for many years, a serious and prolific online shopper and I'm interested in the subconscious mechanisms that drive people to shop and ultimately make a purchase. The article uses the term "shopatainment", which bothers me a bit since I feel it encourages impulse buying. And of course that leads to more trash, waste and accumulation of junk. I also feel as though this selling tactic feeds on people's emotions. Instead of selling something because people want or need it, they're selling based on how it makes the consumer feel. If the consumer "feels" entertained or satiated somehow, they'll buy. The low prices seem like a siren call that says (in a faint and faraway voice) "you don't have to be rich to buy something that makes you feel gooooooood!" Of course, I've seen Temu ads everywhere and for me, sudden and instantaneous ubiquity breeds suspicion, if not contempt.
I mean that is what Temu does, it uses entertainment to get people hooked on spending money on their platform. Which is highlighted in this video by No Text To Speech. He literally shows how Temu gets people to waste their money on random junk. And it also explains how Temu got as big as it is now. And as @literallytwisted says, it is literally gambling without the gambling part because it uses the same part of the brain that casinos exploit.
Agreed. I feel as though another example of this is when any app/platform/website uses the reward system (psychological) to drive consumers. Like, I don't need to hear tinkling bells and see confetti burst on my screen after I've spent money or bought those granny panty underwear I need for my aging butt. This type of tactic feels so manipulative, it makes those old shopping incentive tactics from the days of yore (I'm in my late 40s) feel downright pedestrian.
It's worth noting that Temu's sister company, that allegedly shares a lot of engineers with their current app, has had it's fair share of controversy: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/17/temu-accused-of-data-risks-amid-tiktok-pinduoduo-fears.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/17/temu-accused-of-data-risks-amid-tiktok-pinduoduo-fears.html
I'm also gonna link to this report that a couple of articles have referenced as well, I don't know the validity of the claims but it's very thorough: https://grizzlyreports.com/we-believe-pdd-is-a-dying-fraudulent-company-and-its-shopping-app-temu-is-cleverly-hidden-spyware-that-poses-an-urgent-security-threat-to-u-s-national-interests/
Jesus Christ, "this other, similar app looks way worse so like, this one's probably fine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
I'm legitimately surprised there was no mention of stolen card numbers.... I think it was a reddit thread a while back where dozens of commenters said they/someone they knew had fraudulent activity on the cards tied to Temu a day or two after their first purchase there. I guess it's still just rumors for now, but not even the ads feel above board imo.
Yeah, I remember hearing/reading about stolen card details too, but all through hearsay on social media at the moment so I didn't want to mention it too much in fear of de legitimizing any of the other concerns.
That's fair, though the average Temu target is probably going to respond more to "your card number might get stolen," than they will to "your data might get sold," regardless of which is actually the bigger problem/is more likely. More and more the latter seems to be met with "yeah, and?" since all our data is already floating around out there anyway.
I have used Temu before and can attest to the fact that it's essentially a site that makes it easier to buy stuff you'd see on Alibaba/Aliexpress and get it faster. Similar products but I'd say the collection on Temu is more curated. I can also confirm you receive your items typically quite a bit faster than you would off of Aliexpress (7-12 days is what I've experienced from Temu, and 15-30 often from Aliexpress depending on seller/service). I also think their selection/info/etc tends to be better than Wish.
I've only gotten simple things from there (water tester, rubber drain stopper, etc) and have been satisfied.
However, PinDuoDuo has had plenty of controversy- some of it has been mentioned here already- but I didn't see mention of this- the 996 (or worse) work culture that workers have protested being normalized- tbf this is not isolated to PDD, but a worker death did occur there: The death of a 22-year-old Chinese tech employee shows the industry's toxic '996' work culture, championed by top execs like Jack Ma. This is not a jab at China as a whole. But I think it's worth knowing and understanding. We have plenty of worker rights issues in the US and elsewhere too.
So after learning that, I've thought twice about getting anything from there again. That said- any number of products we buy anywhere- a lot of them probably have sources with similar potential problems... so, I'm not calling necessarily for a boycott- just that as someone that values workers' rights pretty highly, I'd rather not ignore it.
Plenty of people on TikTok and other places are taking these items from Temu/Alibaba/Aliexpress and re-selling them at huge markups though- so beware of that. (Products like a bottle that were $7 on Temu you can find being rebranded and resold for $30+)
Doesn't this have bunch of malware or something?
It sure looks as if it did, but maybe malware looks that way because it gets the clicks and not the other way around.