I can't help be feel like this is already ewaste, destined for the same landfill grave as countless Rabbit M1s and Humane Pins that came before. A few reasons I feel this way: It's expensive, $75...
I can't help be feel like this is already ewaste, destined for the same landfill grave as countless RabbitMQs Rabbit M1s and Humane Pins that came before. A few reasons I feel this way:
It's expensive, $75 is way too much for plastic with a button and a mic. $100 is insane.
It's a single use, disposable piece of tech. Sure it'll last a year or so, then it's garbage.
It's less functional then any other smart ring out there. Heck, the functionality it DOES provide could have been done directly on the Pebble itself or with the programmable button on iPhones.
Talking into your ring is not a social norm.
Warranty is only 30 days, seems like they aren't too confident on the quality.
Uses LLMs (even if local).
It feels like the target audience of people interested in Pebble watches and those that would be interested in disposable tech that uses LLMs are very different, which means targeting a completely new segment by a company that isn't a well known name.
I was actually fairly interested in it towards the beginning of the pitch as I find myself, multiple times a week (sometimes multiple times a day), where I think up something as I'm falling asleep...
I was actually fairly interested in it towards the beginning of the pitch as I find myself, multiple times a week (sometimes multiple times a day), where I think up something as I'm falling asleep or driving or at a meeting etc. But most of the time it's inconvenient for me to write or speak it into my phone, and I don't wear a smart watch.
It would be very handy for me to just push a button on a screenless, silent device, quietly make a note, and done. I'd happily pay $75 even if it is pennies worth of parts if it worked well and was durable.
The thing that instantly killed it was when they mentioned that at the end of its life, you send it to them to recycle. Hell nah. You could have so easily made it wirelessly chargeable, even if you quartered the battery life to do so. It'd charge in a matter of a few minutes. Immediately lost all interest.
I may be in the minority who would find it useful but even for me, if you are making a dead simple product, it needs to last. I'm the type to enjoy an old work truck with manual locks, windows, rubber floor, no a/c, because they are meant to last for a billion years of hard work. I miss products that just work and never die. This type of product is a prime candidate to bring that back a little.
Funny enough, I actually use a Palm Pilot Tungsten T3 in my day to day to solve the exact use case of the Index 01. It has a dedicated button that you press and hold to instantly start recording a...
I miss products that just work and never die.
Funny enough, I actually use a Palm Pilot Tungsten T3 in my day to day to solve the exact use case of the Index 01. It has a dedicated button that you press and hold to instantly start recording a voice memo. Great for ideas or noting todos that pop into my head before bed, no need to look at the screen. 22 years old and it the device works perfectly.
Hi devalexwhite, I'm curious as to why you'd lug around yet another piece of tech when your phone probably does it better already. You already mentioned the dedicated screenless voice memo button,...
Hi devalexwhite,
I'm curious as to why you'd lug around yet another piece of tech when your phone probably does it better already. You already mentioned the dedicated screenless voice memo button, but that doesn't seem worth the added bulk (to me anyway). Are there additional benefit to the palm I'm missing? how/why do you use it?
thank you.
Hey! So I actually wrote about using a Palm Pilot on my blog. Long answer short though, for me I find a lot of the software on Palm to be better than the ad-riddled, privacy invasive, subscription...
Hey! So I actually wrote about using a Palm Pilot on my blog.
Long answer short though, for me I find a lot of the software on Palm to be better than the ad-riddled, privacy invasive, subscription requiring iOS/Android alternatives. I typically carry my Palm in my pocket, and leave the phone in the car or at home. It's lighter, has a better battery, and isn't connected to the internet (so distraction free).
Good read, thank you (RSS suscribed, god I love RSS). sounds cool, but probably pointless for me . I don't have enough free time to want to spend it learning how to code on an old device, I...
Good read, thank you (RSS suscribed, god I love RSS). sounds cool, but probably pointless for me .
I don't have enough free time to want to spend it learning how to code on an old device, I allready have an ipod for offline listening, a notebook sounds better in everyway as a disconnected writting device.
100% agree about the "falling asleep" usecase. That bothers me to the point I'm currently DIYing a wall mounted audio recorder device just for that purpose. However, I feel like even if this ring...
100% agree about the "falling asleep" usecase. That bothers me to the point I'm currently DIYing a wall mounted audio recorder device just for that purpose. However, I feel like even if this ring wasn't single-use, I still wouldn't use it due to the inconvenience of having to put it on every single day.
Doesn't speaking your idea aloud wake you guys back up? I'd rather have a post-it note and pen on my bedside table and occasionally have to hold out my hand to grab it rather than have the comfort...
Doesn't speaking your idea aloud wake you guys back up?
I'd rather have a post-it note and pen on my bedside table and occasionally have to hold out my hand to grab it rather than have the comfort of staying fully tucked in at the price of always carrying a ring-button... knowing me, I'd always have forgotten the ring when I needed it.
I feel like grabbing pen and paper and trying to write down my thoughts requires much more mental and physical effort and would wake me up much more than just pressing a button and mumbling my...
Doesn't speaking your idea aloud wake you guys back up? I'd rather have a post-it note and pen on my bedside table and occasionally have to hold out my hand to grab it
I feel like grabbing pen and paper and trying to write down my thoughts requires much more mental and physical effort and would wake me up much more than just pressing a button and mumbling my thoughts in a sleepy voice
To me this is the opposite expectation I'd have for a product like this. I could be wrong but I doubt that button would last a lifetime if its used as much as one would expect for someone who...
To me this is the opposite expectation I'd have for a product like this. I could be wrong but I doubt that button would last a lifetime if its used as much as one would expect for someone who would buy this. And the explanation for why it doesn't have an option to charge makes sense, and if the battery had to be cut substantially to make room for charging circuitry then it just becomes another annoying device that requires charging upkeep on too frequent a basis and then becomes useless too often as you forget to charge them. There's already way too many products that people might use that all need charged on too frequent of a basis that they're incredibly annoying to use if you acquire too many of them.
As for sending it back to them to recycle, if this was cheap and easy enough to do, that seems like a fairly solid compromise. I'd assume it may require some kind of special packing/labeling or such to ship it back since it still has a battery in it but I don't know the rules on that.
Mouse button switches are rated in the millions of clicks, even if I used it 100 times a day, every day, it would last my lifetime. They say the battery should last multiple years, so even if it...
Mouse button switches are rated in the millions of clicks, even if I used it 100 times a day, every day, it would last my lifetime. They say the battery should last multiple years, so even if it were quartered, at worst it'd last 6 months before needing a charge. Hardly an inconvenience imo
I wasn't just figuring the switch itself but also the silicon cover on the button from repeated wear. I'd assume it being a ring that it would get a lot of fidgeting wear, but perhaps since...
I wasn't just figuring the switch itself but also the silicon cover on the button from repeated wear. I'd assume it being a ring that it would get a lot of fidgeting wear, but perhaps since pressing the button would cause recordings to happen it may dissuade people from fidgeting with it.
They compared this ring to the Oura which they claimed has to be charged every couple days. Maybe they made that comparison just to make the single use option seem more favorable, or perhaps it's not realistic to achieve the same design and integrate the charging circuit and keep even 1/4th of the battery. Perhaps it would be substantially less than that, I don't know. I'd agree with you that 1/4 of the battery and the charging interval for that wouldn't be nearly as bad, but that's not the comparison they made for what the drawback would be if they integrated a charging circuit.
I think it's a bit disingenuous to call it disposable tech at this point. Eric mentioned that when configured to be just a programmable button (versus a recording device) the battery should last...
I think it's a bit disingenuous to call it disposable tech at this point. Eric mentioned that when configured to be just a programmable button (versus a recording device) the battery should last well over a decade. And when it dies it's still a ring and probably a decent fidget if it's as clicky as described. There's also no risk of the battery swelling and getting stuck on your finger like what recently happened with the Samsung ones
How is it disingenuous? It literally is disposable tech. I don't know how you can argue otherwise. You can't replace the battery; it's designed to be just thrown out after a few years maximum. If...
How is it disingenuous? It literally is disposable tech. I don't know how you can argue otherwise. You can't replace the battery; it's designed to be just thrown out after a few years maximum. If it dies it's still a ring isn't an argument that it's not disposable. If my car dies it doesn't suddenly become still an attractive driveway decoration. It no longer serves the function I bought it to do.
I would potentially be interested in a disposable voice memo ring for 30 bucks or so. 100 dollars doesn't seem worth it for me to temporarily solve the problem of taking my phone out of my pocket when I want to remember something.
Nearly everything is disposable depending on how you frame it, this one is actually up front about it. I wouldn't say it's disingenuous to call it disposable because it very much is disposable,...
Nearly everything is disposable depending on how you frame it, this one is actually up front about it. I wouldn't say it's disingenuous to call it disposable because it very much is disposable, but I also don't see why it should be scrutinized too much different than other products of similar category as I think many of them are treated as disposable and just aren't acknowledged for that being their likely future in the vast majority of cases. This is just based on my observation of other people and how I've seen them treat products so it's strictly my opinion from personal experience.
I think if Pebble wants more credit for offering to recycle it they should have put more emphasis in what they are doing to make it easy for people to do so, otherwise it could come across like a throwaway empty gesture while knowing most people won't bother to actually do it. Like estimated costs to ship it back or if they're providing prepaid mailers or such, while that wouldn't likely address human behavior or tendency for some to just throw it in the trash compared to sending it back to recycle it, I'd consider it the least amount of effort they could have put into the announcement of such a product.
In the product category, as in wearable tech, I'd agree that basically everything is disposable, but that's not true of all tech. I have 30 year old speakers that still sound great, and barring...
In the product category, as in wearable tech, I'd agree that basically everything is disposable, but that's not true of all tech. I have 30 year old speakers that still sound great, and barring any accidents as long as they're cared for, should still sound great for the rest of my life.
I have an IBM model M keyboard that I've used almost every day for the past 15 years. It's older than I am; built in 1985.
I think it would be hard to make a wearable ring that's not disposable, but it wouldn't be impossible. That's also a big reason why I don't have a smart ring, or wireless earbuds, or anything like that. The idea that you're going to pay 100 dollars or more for something that will absolutely just stop functioning one day in a few years just really rubs me the wrong way.
The latest Nothing CMF phones have a button and an app for this called Essential Space and records not only voice but text and images, very handy for remembering where did you park and for...
The latest Nothing CMF phones have a button and an app for this called Essential Space and records not only voice but text and images, very handy for remembering where did you park and for pressing it by accident it instead of locking the phone when you're in a hurry
Another concern I have is that it's not actually external memory anymore than any sort of "Second Brain" software is external memory. You put something into your second brain and then forget it...
Another concern I have is that it's not actually external memory anymore than any sort of "Second Brain" software is external memory. You put something into your second brain and then forget it exists. You never learned the thing you stored there, you just stored it away from you.
Whether it's a note software for small notes or a handwritten note, they're more likely to get you to remember, than a phone-connected ring.
These are copping a lot of flak for being non-rechargeable. I don’t agree that this makes them more disposable / e-waste than other products in the category (which is to say pretty much all modern...
These are copping a lot of flak for being non-rechargeable. I don’t agree that this makes them more disposable / e-waste than other products in the category (which is to say pretty much all modern smart devices). Ultimately, many of our modern smart products have a finite lifetime, whether that is due to rechargeable batteries degrading, parts failing or software support being terminated. A non-rechargeable battery makes it very clear that the device will reach EOL within some set time period, and you could reasonably complain about the length of that period, but if people want to invoke sustainability concerns and decry the product as e-waste, you need to take other aspects into consideration. What is the cost impact of manufacturing them this way? How does it impact the materials, in particular rare earth metals? Can we recycle the product more easily? I am not supporting this practice in general, but at the size of this product, the trade offs might actually make sense.
Because there is a demographic of people who loathe the idea of adding yet another device that needs to be recharged every[-other] day to their lives. Personally, I wouldn't give a 2-day battery,...
I have no idea how they managed to come to the conclusion that a simple charging cable wasn't the sensible choice.
Because there is a demographic of people who loathe the idea of adding yet another device that needs to be recharged every[-other] day to their lives.
Personally, I wouldn't give a 2-day battery, rechargeable version of this a second of consideration, even if it was still $75. The fact that this version wouldn't need to be recharged actually makes it somewhat appealing to me.
Given you found an existing similar product with the features you desire shows that there is already a product that fills that niche, so I think it's great that they're trying something different. Not every product needs to have mass appeal, either.
Eh, I don’t think it’ll extrapolate like that. Rechargeable batteries have much worse passive drain than non-rechargeable batteries. I see that every day with my now lithium ion powered mouse,...
Eh, I don’t think it’ll extrapolate like that. Rechargeable batteries have much worse passive drain than non-rechargeable batteries. I see that every day with my now lithium ion powered mouse, which honestly performs much worse battery wise than my wireless mouse that used AAs.
Most lithium ions are going to passively drain out in a few weeks.
Given the size of the lithium ion battery, I’d imagine the passive drain will knock it out in about a week with zero use. You’d most likely have to charge it every 3-5 days with normal use. It...
Given the size of the lithium ion battery, I’d imagine the passive drain will knock it out in about a week with zero use. You’d most likely have to charge it every 3-5 days with normal use. It probably has an AirPod sized or smaller battery.
And in that case, honestly, yeah I’d rather have the disposable ring. If the cadence is a new every 2 years it’s pretty whatever.
So I think the non-rechargeable aspect really depends on what recycling it entails. If they are able to reuse a good portion of the components, I think there would be benefit in this approach....
So I think the non-rechargeable aspect really depends on what recycling it entails. If they are able to reuse a good portion of the components, I think there would be benefit in this approach. Also, I think there should be a discount on getting a second device if you send in your previous one in for recycling, but they probably haven't finalized that process yet, since the prototypes are still not at EOL yet
E-waste or not, I see a much larger problem: who really believes this product will still be available to purchase a couple years from now (when they need to be replaced)? Given how niche this...
E-waste or not, I see a much larger problem: who really believes this product will still be available to purchase a couple years from now (when they need to be replaced)? Given how niche this product is, I'm skeptical it will be successful. So what will people do when they've become dependent on a device that they can't really replace?
This is something I have started realizing with various products I use. I use a minimal phone, and I quite enjoy it, but have doubts that in a couple years when I need to replace it that it will...
This is something I have started realizing with various products I use. I use a minimal phone, and I quite enjoy it, but have doubts that in a couple years when I need to replace it that it will still be around. I think niche products in general will follow the trend of getting a very dedicated user base, but not enough to support a company. Think of Pebble watches, not being made anymore (until recently with the relaunch) but those who still have them are very dedicated
I can't help be feel like this is already ewaste, destined for the same landfill grave as countless
RabbitMQsRabbit M1s and Humane Pins that came before. A few reasons I feel this way:It feels like the target audience of people interested in Pebble watches and those that would be interested in disposable tech that uses LLMs are very different, which means targeting a completely new segment by a company that isn't a well known name.
I was actually fairly interested in it towards the beginning of the pitch as I find myself, multiple times a week (sometimes multiple times a day), where I think up something as I'm falling asleep or driving or at a meeting etc. But most of the time it's inconvenient for me to write or speak it into my phone, and I don't wear a smart watch.
It would be very handy for me to just push a button on a screenless, silent device, quietly make a note, and done. I'd happily pay $75 even if it is pennies worth of parts if it worked well and was durable.
The thing that instantly killed it was when they mentioned that at the end of its life, you send it to them to recycle. Hell nah. You could have so easily made it wirelessly chargeable, even if you quartered the battery life to do so. It'd charge in a matter of a few minutes. Immediately lost all interest.
I may be in the minority who would find it useful but even for me, if you are making a dead simple product, it needs to last. I'm the type to enjoy an old work truck with manual locks, windows, rubber floor, no a/c, because they are meant to last for a billion years of hard work. I miss products that just work and never die. This type of product is a prime candidate to bring that back a little.
Funny enough, I actually use a Palm Pilot Tungsten T3 in my day to day to solve the exact use case of the Index 01. It has a dedicated button that you press and hold to instantly start recording a voice memo. Great for ideas or noting todos that pop into my head before bed, no need to look at the screen. 22 years old and it the device works perfectly.
Hi devalexwhite,
I'm curious as to why you'd lug around yet another piece of tech when your phone probably does it better already. You already mentioned the dedicated screenless voice memo button, but that doesn't seem worth the added bulk (to me anyway). Are there additional benefit to the palm I'm missing? how/why do you use it?
thank you.
Hey! So I actually wrote about using a Palm Pilot on my blog.
Long answer short though, for me I find a lot of the software on Palm to be better than the ad-riddled, privacy invasive, subscription requiring iOS/Android alternatives. I typically carry my Palm in my pocket, and leave the phone in the car or at home. It's lighter, has a better battery, and isn't connected to the internet (so distraction free).
Good read, thank you (RSS suscribed, god I love RSS). sounds cool, but probably pointless for me .
I don't have enough free time to want to spend it learning how to code on an old device, I allready have an ipod for offline listening, a notebook sounds better in everyway as a disconnected writting device.
100% agree about the "falling asleep" usecase. That bothers me to the point I'm currently DIYing a wall mounted audio recorder device just for that purpose. However, I feel like even if this ring wasn't single-use, I still wouldn't use it due to the inconvenience of having to put it on every single day.
Doesn't speaking your idea aloud wake you guys back up?
I'd rather have a post-it note and pen on my bedside table and occasionally have to hold out my hand to grab it rather than have the comfort of staying fully tucked in at the price of always carrying a ring-button... knowing me, I'd always have forgotten the ring when I needed it.
I feel like grabbing pen and paper and trying to write down my thoughts requires much more mental and physical effort and would wake me up much more than just pressing a button and mumbling my thoughts in a sleepy voice
To me this is the opposite expectation I'd have for a product like this. I could be wrong but I doubt that button would last a lifetime if its used as much as one would expect for someone who would buy this. And the explanation for why it doesn't have an option to charge makes sense, and if the battery had to be cut substantially to make room for charging circuitry then it just becomes another annoying device that requires charging upkeep on too frequent a basis and then becomes useless too often as you forget to charge them. There's already way too many products that people might use that all need charged on too frequent of a basis that they're incredibly annoying to use if you acquire too many of them.
As for sending it back to them to recycle, if this was cheap and easy enough to do, that seems like a fairly solid compromise. I'd assume it may require some kind of special packing/labeling or such to ship it back since it still has a battery in it but I don't know the rules on that.
Mouse button switches are rated in the millions of clicks, even if I used it 100 times a day, every day, it would last my lifetime. They say the battery should last multiple years, so even if it were quartered, at worst it'd last 6 months before needing a charge. Hardly an inconvenience imo
I wasn't just figuring the switch itself but also the silicon cover on the button from repeated wear. I'd assume it being a ring that it would get a lot of fidgeting wear, but perhaps since pressing the button would cause recordings to happen it may dissuade people from fidgeting with it.
They compared this ring to the Oura which they claimed has to be charged every couple days. Maybe they made that comparison just to make the single use option seem more favorable, or perhaps it's not realistic to achieve the same design and integrate the charging circuit and keep even 1/4th of the battery. Perhaps it would be substantially less than that, I don't know. I'd agree with you that 1/4 of the battery and the charging interval for that wouldn't be nearly as bad, but that's not the comparison they made for what the drawback would be if they integrated a charging circuit.
What's wrong with an old-fashioned dictaphone?
I think it's a bit disingenuous to call it disposable tech at this point. Eric mentioned that when configured to be just a programmable button (versus a recording device) the battery should last well over a decade. And when it dies it's still a ring and probably a decent fidget if it's as clicky as described. There's also no risk of the battery swelling and getting stuck on your finger like what recently happened with the Samsung ones
How is it disingenuous? It literally is disposable tech. I don't know how you can argue otherwise. You can't replace the battery; it's designed to be just thrown out after a few years maximum. If it dies it's still a ring isn't an argument that it's not disposable. If my car dies it doesn't suddenly become still an attractive driveway decoration. It no longer serves the function I bought it to do.
I would potentially be interested in a disposable voice memo ring for 30 bucks or so. 100 dollars doesn't seem worth it for me to temporarily solve the problem of taking my phone out of my pocket when I want to remember something.
Nearly everything is disposable depending on how you frame it, this one is actually up front about it. I wouldn't say it's disingenuous to call it disposable because it very much is disposable, but I also don't see why it should be scrutinized too much different than other products of similar category as I think many of them are treated as disposable and just aren't acknowledged for that being their likely future in the vast majority of cases. This is just based on my observation of other people and how I've seen them treat products so it's strictly my opinion from personal experience.
I think if Pebble wants more credit for offering to recycle it they should have put more emphasis in what they are doing to make it easy for people to do so, otherwise it could come across like a throwaway empty gesture while knowing most people won't bother to actually do it. Like estimated costs to ship it back or if they're providing prepaid mailers or such, while that wouldn't likely address human behavior or tendency for some to just throw it in the trash compared to sending it back to recycle it, I'd consider it the least amount of effort they could have put into the announcement of such a product.
In the product category, as in wearable tech, I'd agree that basically everything is disposable, but that's not true of all tech. I have 30 year old speakers that still sound great, and barring any accidents as long as they're cared for, should still sound great for the rest of my life.
I have an IBM model M keyboard that I've used almost every day for the past 15 years. It's older than I am; built in 1985.
I think it would be hard to make a wearable ring that's not disposable, but it wouldn't be impossible. That's also a big reason why I don't have a smart ring, or wireless earbuds, or anything like that. The idea that you're going to pay 100 dollars or more for something that will absolutely just stop functioning one day in a few years just really rubs me the wrong way.
Rabbit R1, not RabbitMQ :P
D'oh!
The latest Nothing CMF phones have a button and an app for this called Essential Space and records not only voice but text and images, very handy for remembering where did you park and for pressing it by accident it instead of locking the phone when you're in a hurry
Another concern I have is that it's not actually external memory anymore than any sort of "Second Brain" software is external memory. You put something into your second brain and then forget it exists. You never learned the thing you stored there, you just stored it away from you.
Whether it's a note software for small notes or a handwritten note, they're more likely to get you to remember, than a phone-connected ring.
These are copping a lot of flak for being non-rechargeable. I don’t agree that this makes them more disposable / e-waste than other products in the category (which is to say pretty much all modern smart devices). Ultimately, many of our modern smart products have a finite lifetime, whether that is due to rechargeable batteries degrading, parts failing or software support being terminated. A non-rechargeable battery makes it very clear that the device will reach EOL within some set time period, and you could reasonably complain about the length of that period, but if people want to invoke sustainability concerns and decry the product as e-waste, you need to take other aspects into consideration. What is the cost impact of manufacturing them this way? How does it impact the materials, in particular rare earth metals? Can we recycle the product more easily? I am not supporting this practice in general, but at the size of this product, the trade offs might actually make sense.
Because there is a demographic of people who loathe the idea of adding yet another device that needs to be recharged every[-other] day to their lives.
Personally, I wouldn't give a 2-day battery, rechargeable version of this a second of consideration, even if it was still $75. The fact that this version wouldn't need to be recharged actually makes it somewhat appealing to me.
Given you found an existing similar product with the features you desire shows that there is already a product that fills that niche, so I think it's great that they're trying something different. Not every product needs to have mass appeal, either.
Eh, I don’t think it’ll extrapolate like that. Rechargeable batteries have much worse passive drain than non-rechargeable batteries. I see that every day with my now lithium ion powered mouse, which honestly performs much worse battery wise than my wireless mouse that used AAs.
Most lithium ions are going to passively drain out in a few weeks.
Given the size of the lithium ion battery, I’d imagine the passive drain will knock it out in about a week with zero use. You’d most likely have to charge it every 3-5 days with normal use. It probably has an AirPod sized or smaller battery.
And in that case, honestly, yeah I’d rather have the disposable ring. If the cadence is a new every 2 years it’s pretty whatever.
Eric was pretty clear about these trade-offs in the accompanying video. You can certainly have a rechargeable battery if you double the cost and size
So I think the non-rechargeable aspect really depends on what recycling it entails. If they are able to reuse a good portion of the components, I think there would be benefit in this approach. Also, I think there should be a discount on getting a second device if you send in your previous one in for recycling, but they probably haven't finalized that process yet, since the prototypes are still not at EOL yet
E-waste or not, I see a much larger problem: who really believes this product will still be available to purchase a couple years from now (when they need to be replaced)? Given how niche this product is, I'm skeptical it will be successful. So what will people do when they've become dependent on a device that they can't really replace?
This is something I have started realizing with various products I use. I use a minimal phone, and I quite enjoy it, but have doubts that in a couple years when I need to replace it that it will still be around. I think niche products in general will follow the trend of getting a very dedicated user base, but not enough to support a company. Think of Pebble watches, not being made anymore (until recently with the relaunch) but those who still have them are very dedicated