When are they going to throw in the towel and allow us to browse "related" videos again? At this point that's all I want.. I love naturally discovering channels and their ecosystems, but now I...
When are they going to throw in the towel and allow us to browse "related" videos again? At this point that's all I want.. I love naturally discovering channels and their ecosystems, but now I never click a video in the sidebar because its just some attempt at convincing me to finish watching something i didn't care about and stopped watching halfway through, and every video related to that.
I know I can just click "not interested" but what's the fucking point when it's always suggesting new gibberish? I'd be more open to spending time on youtube if there was an actual way to browse it. As it stands, I just monitor r/videos and my sub box, and check out things I see mentioned on discord/whatnot.
A major annoyance I have is that when I see it’s gonna bring me back to the same video again via autoplay, and I hit “not interested”, it completely ignores that and goes to that video anyway. I...
A major annoyance I have is that when I see it’s gonna bring me back to the same video again via autoplay, and I hit “not interested”, it completely ignores that and goes to that video anyway. I just told you I don’t wanna see that video, I’ve seen it 500 times already cause you keep going back to it
A video roll would be nice too. Lots of times video-makers will recommend you check out other videos by themselves or by peers, but the interface itself has no simple way to mark or show those...
At this point that's all I want.. I love naturally discovering channels and their ecosystems, but now I never click a video in the sidebar because its just some attempt at convincing me to finish watching something i didn't care about and stopped watching halfway through, and every video related to that.
A video roll would be nice too. Lots of times video-makers will recommend you check out other videos by themselves or by peers, but the interface itself has no simple way to mark or show those unless they just pasted the link in the video info.
I would much rather the creators I watch be the ones recommending things to me or establishing links to other content providers rather than having an algorithm from YouTube try to guess (poorly). The incentives are misaligned too. YouTube's goal is to keep me watching and clicking on stuff. The content creators are incentivized to send me things I might fight interesting rather than just things that will keep me glued to the screen.
Unfortunately it seems like every large content host and social media platform wants to push "recommended" content. They continually want to force you to see things they think you'll want to see...
Unfortunately it seems like every large content host and social media platform wants to push "recommended" content. They continually want to force you to see things they think you'll want to see and don't provide an effective means of tuning the results. If you so much as click the wrong item, now your recommendations are ruined forever and you have no way of fixing them. Worse still, the desire to push recommendations based on some fairly arbitrary criteria typically makes it difficult if not impossible to discover new things on your own. And clearly people end up finding ways to game the algorithms, or those algorithms end up behaving in unexpected ways.
I mean, look at Facebook. Forced non-chronological feed order. LinkedIn disabled chronological sort for a short time, too, until they caved in and put it back, though it still defaults and reverts back to their arbitrary recommendation order. And those aren't exactly anomalies.
I guess I just feel the need to rant about this because it gets frustrating having everyone trying to curate my life and my interests for me. Recommendations are great as a system, but only if I can tailor the results to suit my needs and only if I ask for them. It's like walking into a grocery store and wanting to look at some English muffins only to have a salesperson badgering you to take a look at the bagels and hamburger buns the whole time.
I really think it's more of an engagement thing. They're trying to engineer around the "bar isn't busy" problem. Basically, most people don't want to go to a quiet, empty bar. But the bar will...
I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that most personnel in tech companies are probably programmers and not social experts. Automating an otherwise human activity is a very programmer-like way of thinking.
I really think it's more of an engagement thing. They're trying to engineer around the "bar isn't busy" problem. Basically, most people don't want to go to a quiet, empty bar. But the bar will never get busy if nobody goes because it's too quiet. It needs to hit a critical mass to attract more people.
Most people only post new content to social media a handful of times a day, and only at specific times, so the production of content is lumpy throughout the day. When you do stuff chronologically you are going to hit dead-zones where there isn't much to see. If you login during quiet periods and see nothing new, you will leave so they would rather you see "here is stuff your friends are liking" so you're more likely to stay. They're smoothing out when you encounter the content so you're likelier to see something fresh every time you login.
Of course, this is of zero only minor benefit to the user. If I'm not going to the bar because it isn't busy this is more of a problem for the bar than it is for me. I, presumably, have other things to do so if there isn't anything fresh to see there isn't anything fresh to see. If this was the norm, you would get in the habit of checking your feeds periodically when you expect there to be activity, the same way society has converged on generally accepted times for socializing and revelry. But they need you to check your feed compulsively every time you have an idle moment. This is an unconscionable design pattern, on par with big tobacco adding additional MAOIs to their cigarettes to make them dramatically more addictive.
And since you’ve had bagels every day for the last few days cause you just blindly listened to the salesperson when you were half asleep, they are now convinced that you want to eat bagels every...
And since you’ve had bagels every day for the last few days cause you just blindly listened to the salesperson when you were half asleep, they are now convinced that you want to eat bagels every day for the rest of your life.
https://www.youtube.com/feed/history Hover over each video to reveal an X button to remove it from your history. There's a search bar to filter it down to Jordan Peterson videos and a button to...
Hover over each video to reveal an X button to remove it from your history. There's a search bar to filter it down to Jordan Peterson videos and a button to clear your entire history if you want.
YouTube made a blog post today, "Continuing our work to improve recommendations on YouTube", which is probably somewhat in response to this big Buzzfeed piece.
It wouldn't be the first time Google has shut down comments on things. Back during the US election with that video where Barack Obama endorsed Hillary Clinton? That video's comments were broken...
It wouldn't be the first time Google has shut down comments on things. Back during the US election with that video where Barack Obama endorsed Hillary Clinton? That video's comments were broken for a very long time.
They weren't disabled, they just would never, ever load. Eventually they'd time out and you could retry and get the same message. They appear to be just fine now, but there's only one single comment on a politically charged video with 2.5mil views that has always had comments enabled. Honestly, even the comment's a bit weird. 68 likes so lots of people have seen it but still it's the only comment there. Not even any replies.
The most bizarre thing for me is that when I try searching the internet for people talking about it, I can't find hardly anything that isn't on /r/TD. There's this guy who seemed to be seeing something similar but different. And that's it, that's all I could find anywhere.
I was curious about this so I tried a search and found https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/06/10/comments-scrubbed-youtube-video-obamas-hillary-endorsement/ and...
The most bizarre thing for me is that when I try searching the internet for people talking about it, I can't find hardly anything that isn't on /r/TD.
See that almost adds to it for me. I might be mis-remembering this so slap me over the head if I'm wrong, but isn't Breitbart more or less /r/TD-tier? So the only places that are mentioning this...
See that almost adds to it for me. I might be mis-remembering this so slap me over the head if I'm wrong, but isn't Breitbart more or less /r/TD-tier? So the only places that are mentioning this are deeply right-wing and /r/Conspiracy where the comments still are looking pretty right. And one downvoted comment on /r/politics. But if Google's pushing for a candidate so underhandedly, that affects everybody.
A company the size of Google trying to manipulate the flow of data in any way in favor of any political anything is just straight scary to think about. When most people want to learn about anything, they go through Google. Any evidence of bias in that flow at all should be a giant red flag for the entire planet.
Tangentially related, but it's astounding to me that YouTube's autoplay setting (which will just play the video slotted for 'Up Next' automatically) is not account bound, but device bound. So even...
Tangentially related, but it's astounding to me that YouTube's autoplay setting (which will just play the video slotted for 'Up Next' automatically) is not account bound, but device bound. So even if you turn it off on your bedroom chromecast, it's still on for your PS4 and phone apps.
Seems like they really want to push this feature, yet this kind of thing is still prevalent?
This is not to say that pushing the feature was not the real motive, but I actually like that. I have autoplay on my computer for when I'm just watching videos in the background while playing...
This is not to say that pushing the feature was not the real motive, but I actually like that. I have autoplay on my computer for when I'm just watching videos in the background while playing something and off on other devices.
I personally think doing it per-device is the right strategy, but it should be off by default. If someone is using my laptop and turns autoplay on, and I'm one room over watching a video on my...
I personally think doing it per-device is the right strategy, but it should be off by default. If someone is using my laptop and turns autoplay on, and I'm one room over watching a video on my phone, I don't want autoplay to get enabled on my phone.
I keep my watch history and search history paused, because I prefer Google to not know everything about me. This has given me this weird insight into how the algorithm works without any real...
I keep my watch history and search history paused, because I prefer Google to not know everything about me. This has given me this weird insight into how the algorithm works without any real information to give me. In the past, this was usually fine; I didn't get a ton of politically charged videos or Peterson speeches and usually just got more videos by the creator I watched. Over the past month, this has drastically changed. It's still relatively okay for larger channels, where it's usually just their recent uploads. However for small channels, everything goes to shit. I'll get a Vice news documentary about North Korea next to a video about the Revolutionary War next to a video about how Ben Shapiro Dominates Debates next to a Contrapoints video. I genuinely believe Youtube has gotten to the point where they don't even test new features with smaller channels, that all their efforts are to appease the big channels.
"Just nine"? To me, nine steps is a lot. To me, that seems like these videos are buried fairly deep within YouTube's maze. Who actually follows YouTube recommendations nine deep? It's like... "We...
How many clicks through YouTube’s “Up Next” recommendations does it take to go from an anodyne PBS clip about the 116th United States Congress to an anti-immigrant video from a designated hate organization? Thanks to the site’s recommendation algorithm, just nine.
"Just nine"? To me, nine steps is a lot. To me, that seems like these videos are buried fairly deep within YouTube's maze. Who actually follows YouTube recommendations nine deep?
It's like... "We dug down 10 centimetres under the city and there was no shit at all. But when we dug down 10 metres, we found these huge pipes carrying tonnes of liquid shit everywhere!" Who even goes that deep?
Well but they're talking specifically about the "Up Next" thing. If you leave AutoPlay on, you'd end up there after 9 videos without making any particular actions towards that on your own. The...
Well but they're talking specifically about the "Up Next" thing. If you leave AutoPlay on, you'd end up there after 9 videos without making any particular actions towards that on your own. The algorithms just push you in that direction.
Lots of people? Including my girlfriend. Some people just find one video they like, and let YouTube try to do the work finding similar videos. In particular, she likes watching people making soap...
Lots of people? Including my girlfriend. Some people just find one video they like, and let YouTube try to do the work finding similar videos. In particular, she likes watching people making soap or screwing around with various weird chemical interactions or just cooking videos. I'm not seeing the difference between that and relaxing in front of a cable TV subscription and watching a few episodes of whatever on HGTV or Food Network. Except one is significantly cheaper.
No. I would choose the channel based on what's on and what I want to watch, and I would change the channel if something came on that I didn't want to watch or if there was something on another...
No. I would choose the channel based on what's on and what I want to watch, and I would change the channel if something came on that I didn't want to watch or if there was something on another channel I wanted to watch. I don't just turn the TV on and let it run without checking and controlling what's on.
Eh, alright. I mean that is normal. But like it's not abnormal either to not care for a particular show but just a particular type of content. Just a different style of watching that translates...
Eh, alright. I mean that is normal. But like it's not abnormal either to not care for a particular show but just a particular type of content. Just a different style of watching that translates well to YouTube and things like it. Like TV meets radio.
I like to have music on in the background. YouTube’s autoplay in theory would be great for that. In practice, it keeps bringing me back to the same few songs after a few iterations. Songs I liked...
I like to have music on in the background. YouTube’s autoplay in theory would be great for that. In practice, it keeps bringing me back to the same few songs after a few iterations. Songs I liked a lot and listened to a bunch in the past, but don’t wanna hear anymore because I’ve heard them enough.
I wish autoplay actually gave me new stuff to discover.
Have you tried YouTube's "mix" feature? I've found that that's quite good for finding new stuff - it'll give me stuff I've already listened to for a while, but eventually it will start...
Have you tried YouTube's "mix" feature? I've found that that's quite good for finding new stuff - it'll give me stuff I've already listened to for a while, but eventually it will start interspersing new music.
Kidz... they are often left in front of devices to watch videos while the parents are doing whatever. And you'd be amazed to see how quickly they learn to just go to one of the recommendations...
Kidz... they are often left in front of devices to watch videos while the parents are doing whatever. And you'd be amazed to see how quickly they learn to just go to one of the recommendations (possibly just hitting the up next one). And the swathes of creepy shit aimed at kids are always a few steps away.
Parents of Tildes, if any of you are really gonna do this sort of stuff to sedate your kids, please at least download the videos and put the device offline. You'll do great good to your kids.
Really, considering we have a recognized white nationalist in Congress, you'd think you could drop that number down pretty significantly, right? I wonder if anyone's played the old wikipedia game...
"Just nine"? To me, nine steps is a lot. To me, that seems like these videos are buried fairly deep within YouTube's maze. Who actually follows YouTube recommendations nine deep?
Really, considering we have a recognized white nationalist in Congress, you'd think you could drop that number down pretty significantly, right?
I wonder if anyone's played the old wikipedia game where you try to go between unrelated topics by only clicking the links on the page on YT?
When are they going to throw in the towel and allow us to browse "related" videos again? At this point that's all I want.. I love naturally discovering channels and their ecosystems, but now I never click a video in the sidebar because its just some attempt at convincing me to finish watching something i didn't care about and stopped watching halfway through, and every video related to that.
I know I can just click "not interested" but what's the fucking point when it's always suggesting new gibberish? I'd be more open to spending time on youtube if there was an actual way to browse it. As it stands, I just monitor r/videos and my sub box, and check out things I see mentioned on discord/whatnot.
A major annoyance I have is that when I see it’s gonna bring me back to the same video again via autoplay, and I hit “not interested”, it completely ignores that and goes to that video anyway. I just told you I don’t wanna see that video, I’ve seen it 500 times already cause you keep going back to it
A video roll would be nice too. Lots of times video-makers will recommend you check out other videos by themselves or by peers, but the interface itself has no simple way to mark or show those unless they just pasted the link in the video info.
I would much rather the creators I watch be the ones recommending things to me or establishing links to other content providers rather than having an algorithm from YouTube try to guess (poorly). The incentives are misaligned too. YouTube's goal is to keep me watching and clicking on stuff. The content creators are incentivized to send me things I might fight interesting rather than just things that will keep me glued to the screen.
Unfortunately it seems like every large content host and social media platform wants to push "recommended" content. They continually want to force you to see things they think you'll want to see and don't provide an effective means of tuning the results. If you so much as click the wrong item, now your recommendations are ruined forever and you have no way of fixing them. Worse still, the desire to push recommendations based on some fairly arbitrary criteria typically makes it difficult if not impossible to discover new things on your own. And clearly people end up finding ways to game the algorithms, or those algorithms end up behaving in unexpected ways.
I mean, look at Facebook. Forced non-chronological feed order. LinkedIn disabled chronological sort for a short time, too, until they caved in and put it back, though it still defaults and reverts back to their arbitrary recommendation order. And those aren't exactly anomalies.
I guess I just feel the need to rant about this because it gets frustrating having everyone trying to curate my life and my interests for me. Recommendations are great as a system, but only if I can tailor the results to suit my needs and only if I ask for them. It's like walking into a grocery store and wanting to look at some English muffins only to have a salesperson badgering you to take a look at the bagels and hamburger buns the whole time.
I really think it's more of an engagement thing. They're trying to engineer around the "bar isn't busy" problem. Basically, most people don't want to go to a quiet, empty bar. But the bar will never get busy if nobody goes because it's too quiet. It needs to hit a critical mass to attract more people.
Most people only post new content to social media a handful of times a day, and only at specific times, so the production of content is lumpy throughout the day. When you do stuff chronologically you are going to hit dead-zones where there isn't much to see. If you login during quiet periods and see nothing new, you will leave so they would rather you see "here is stuff your friends are liking" so you're more likely to stay. They're smoothing out when you encounter the content so you're likelier to see something fresh every time you login.
Of course, this is of
zeroonly minor benefit to the user. If I'm not going to the bar because it isn't busy this is more of a problem for the bar than it is for me. I, presumably, have other things to do so if there isn't anything fresh to see there isn't anything fresh to see. If this was the norm, you would get in the habit of checking your feeds periodically when you expect there to be activity, the same way society has converged on generally accepted times for socializing and revelry. But they need you to check your feed compulsively every time you have an idle moment. This is an unconscionable design pattern, on par with big tobacco adding additional MAOIs to their cigarettes to make them dramatically more addictive.And since you’ve had bagels every day for the last few days cause you just blindly listened to the salesperson when you were half asleep, they are now convinced that you want to eat bagels every day for the rest of your life.
https://www.youtube.com/feed/history
Hover over each video to reveal an X button to remove it from your history. There's a search bar to filter it down to Jordan Peterson videos and a button to clear your entire history if you want.
YouTube made a blog post today, "Continuing our work to improve recommendations on YouTube", which is probably somewhat in response to this big Buzzfeed piece.
"No comments :"
Hmmm... I find that somewhat hard to believe.
It wouldn't be the first time Google has shut down comments on things. Back during the US election with that video where Barack Obama endorsed Hillary Clinton? That video's comments were broken for a very long time.
They weren't disabled, they just would never, ever load. Eventually they'd time out and you could retry and get the same message. They appear to be just fine now, but there's only one single comment on a politically charged video with 2.5mil views that has always had comments enabled. Honestly, even the comment's a bit weird. 68 likes so lots of people have seen it but still it's the only comment there. Not even any replies.
The most bizarre thing for me is that when I try searching the internet for people talking about it, I can't find hardly anything that isn't on /r/TD. There's this guy who seemed to be seeing something similar but different. And that's it, that's all I could find anywhere.
I was curious about this so I tried a search and found https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/06/10/comments-scrubbed-youtube-video-obamas-hillary-endorsement/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/4nhf2l/comments_not_loading_on_barack_obamas_clinton/. Still strangely few mentions, though.
See that almost adds to it for me. I might be mis-remembering this so slap me over the head if I'm wrong, but isn't Breitbart more or less /r/TD-tier? So the only places that are mentioning this are deeply right-wing and /r/Conspiracy where the comments still are looking pretty right. And one downvoted comment on /r/politics. But if Google's pushing for a candidate so underhandedly, that affects everybody.
A company the size of Google trying to manipulate the flow of data in any way in favor of any political anything is just straight scary to think about. When most people want to learn about anything, they go through Google. Any evidence of bias in that flow at all should be a giant red flag for the entire planet.
Tangentially related, but it's astounding to me that YouTube's autoplay setting (which will just play the video slotted for 'Up Next' automatically) is not account bound, but device bound. So even if you turn it off on your bedroom chromecast, it's still on for your PS4 and phone apps.
Seems like they really want to push this feature, yet this kind of thing is still prevalent?
This is not to say that pushing the feature was not the real motive, but I actually like that. I have autoplay on my computer for when I'm just watching videos in the background while playing something and off on other devices.
I personally think doing it per-device is the right strategy, but it should be off by default. If someone is using my laptop and turns autoplay on, and I'm one room over watching a video on my phone, I don't want autoplay to get enabled on my phone.
I keep my watch history and search history paused, because I prefer Google to not know everything about me. This has given me this weird insight into how the algorithm works without any real information to give me. In the past, this was usually fine; I didn't get a ton of politically charged videos or Peterson speeches and usually just got more videos by the creator I watched. Over the past month, this has drastically changed. It's still relatively okay for larger channels, where it's usually just their recent uploads. However for small channels, everything goes to shit. I'll get a Vice news documentary about North Korea next to a video about the Revolutionary War next to a video about how Ben Shapiro Dominates Debates next to a Contrapoints video. I genuinely believe Youtube has gotten to the point where they don't even test new features with smaller channels, that all their efforts are to appease the big channels.
"Just nine"? To me, nine steps is a lot. To me, that seems like these videos are buried fairly deep within YouTube's maze. Who actually follows YouTube recommendations nine deep?
It's like... "We dug down 10 centimetres under the city and there was no shit at all. But when we dug down 10 metres, we found these huge pipes carrying tonnes of liquid shit everywhere!" Who even goes that deep?
Well but they're talking specifically about the "Up Next" thing. If you leave AutoPlay on, you'd end up there after 9 videos without making any particular actions towards that on your own. The algorithms just push you in that direction.
And... who does that for nine steps? Who lets YouTube just play what it wants nine times without changing it at some point?
Lots of people? Including my girlfriend. Some people just find one video they like, and let YouTube try to do the work finding similar videos. In particular, she likes watching people making soap or screwing around with various weird chemical interactions or just cooking videos. I'm not seeing the difference between that and relaxing in front of a cable TV subscription and watching a few episodes of whatever on HGTV or Food Network. Except one is significantly cheaper.
Okay. I am officially an old fuddy-duddy. There is no way I would let YouTube dictate what I watch. The idea of that is just foreign to me.
But supposedly you'd have no problem turning your TV to your network of choice and letting them dictate what you watch?
No. I would choose the channel based on what's on and what I want to watch, and I would change the channel if something came on that I didn't want to watch or if there was something on another channel I wanted to watch. I don't just turn the TV on and let it run without checking and controlling what's on.
Eh, alright. I mean that is normal. But like it's not abnormal either to not care for a particular show but just a particular type of content. Just a different style of watching that translates well to YouTube and things like it. Like TV meets radio.
I've seen children do exactly that. It's weird how passively some people engage with it.
Wow. Just... wow.
I like to have music on in the background. YouTube’s autoplay in theory would be great for that. In practice, it keeps bringing me back to the same few songs after a few iterations. Songs I liked a lot and listened to a bunch in the past, but don’t wanna hear anymore because I’ve heard them enough.
I wish autoplay actually gave me new stuff to discover.
Have you tried YouTube's "mix" feature? I've found that that's quite good for finding new stuff - it'll give me stuff I've already listened to for a while, but eventually it will start interspersing new music.
Kidz... they are often left in front of devices to watch videos while the parents are doing whatever. And you'd be amazed to see how quickly they learn to just go to one of the recommendations (possibly just hitting the up next one). And the swathes of creepy shit aimed at kids are always a few steps away.
Parents of Tildes, if any of you are really gonna do this sort of stuff to sedate your kids, please at least download the videos and put the device offline. You'll do great good to your kids.
Really, considering we have a recognized white nationalist in Congress, you'd think you could drop that number down pretty significantly, right?
I wonder if anyone's played the old wikipedia game where you try to go between unrelated topics by only clicking the links on the page on YT?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Six_degrees_of_Wikipedia
And of course the comment section at that side are folks slinging mud at other political believes, rather than talking about the problem at hand.