It really is—even more so in the era of video conferencing and increased quarantine time, having a 720p webcam with a puny sensor for light collection, which, lets face it, are often used in dimly...
It really is—even more so in the era of video conferencing and increased quarantine time, having a 720p webcam with a puny sensor for light collection, which, lets face it, are often used in dimly lit apartment rooms, resulting in insanely noisy images; is especially egregious.
I wonder if it's a function of the thinness of the display lid on the device though. How can that be realistically worked around?
It can be worked around by letting users stream A/V from the cameras and mics in their smartphones which are most likely the best cameras and mics they own (unless they have a home studio setup,...
It can be worked around by letting users stream A/V from the cameras and mics in their smartphones which are most likely the best cameras and mics they own (unless they have a home studio setup, in which case they can just use that equipment). This becomes a software problem that some video conferencing apps are beginning to support. Eventually I expect devices to be intelligent enough to suggest the user to delegate things like this to the best option available from the resources a user has. If any company could make this seamless it would be Apple, but they definitely don’t have it solved yet.
I think it’s kind of silly that laptops have these horrible cameras built-in to the lids. Nobody likes them and plenty of people would opt not to get them if they were optional. Half of laptops I see have a piece of tape or some other form of cover over the webcam anyway. It’s so wasteful.
Yeah, I'm one of those people with tape on my webcam haha.. If it were an option I'd absolutely buy a macbook pro without a camera despite the fact that I do a lot of video conferencing simply...
Yeah, I'm one of those people with tape on my webcam haha.. If it were an option I'd absolutely buy a macbook pro without a camera despite the fact that I do a lot of video conferencing simply because there are much better alternatives on the market which only have to be connected when it suits me.
I consider myself a "pro" user and there are two things that stand out to me. I have a 2016 MBP. the touchbar is something that I hated when i started, but now actually use regularly. I have...
I consider myself a "pro" user and there are two things that stand out to me. I have a 2016 MBP.
the touchbar is something that I hated when i started, but now actually use regularly. I have configured it to have the things that I want on it, and removed the cruft; it works very well for all the "fiddly" things like volume control, brightness, etc, and if I'm not doing one of those things, I have no buttons on the bar. I also set it so that there's a button to access those options so I'm not changing them accidentally. It is not an anti-feature, but it took me a whole year to actually come around to liking it.
the large trackpad is something that I would have a very difficult time giving up. While I use keyboard shortcuts for most things, there are still times when I have to use a mouse / trackpad, and the large trackpad is so much better than a small one... for me. This is a personal preference, and not a "pro / not pro" thing.
The thing that I agree with most is that the camera still kind of sucks. It's strange to me that they didn't update the camera.
Do you actually prefer it to the buttons though? Volume adjustment, brightness, that can all be done with buttons in a satisfactory manner, but I haven't had the chance to try out the touch bar...
the touchbar is something that I hated when i started, but now actually use regularly. I have configured it to have the things that I want on it, and removed the cruft; it works very well for all the "fiddly" things like volume control, brightness, etc, and if I'm not doing one of those things, I have no buttons on the bar. I also set it so that there's a button to access those options so I'm not changing them accidentally. It is not an anti-feature, but it took me a whole year to actually come around to liking it.
Do you actually prefer it to the buttons though? Volume adjustment, brightness, that can all be done with buttons in a satisfactory manner, but I haven't had the chance to try out the touch bar (though I have to admit, I don't really want to).
Another take on the Touch Bar from me, who is very much an Apple fan (critic?—all good fans should have enough insight into the company to be critical of actions and be able to recognise...
Another take on the Touch Bar from me, who is very much an Apple fan (critic?—all good fans should have enough insight into the company to be critical of actions and be able to recognise mis-steps).
It's a gimmick.
Honestly even since I've had a TB MBP—which is from 2018—I haven't used it outside of system configuration such as brightness or volume control, and even then it's a chore to use. It's significantly slower than just pressing volume/brightness up/down. There isn't a single use I can think of that actually makes it a feature for me. No apps take advantage of it to the extent that make it desirable to have above your keyboard—even a lot of Apple's own apps don't portray convincing use cases for it.
And then, there's the accidental presses. My fingers rest on the function row occasionally—like the author's does. The Touch Bar has no allowance for accidental presses or force, and even when you intentionally utilise the Touch Bar—like for example, the escape key in Vim—the outcome is the least desirable haptic experience imaginable. Which on its face seems ridiculous to me, as these are two technologies Apple has utilised to great extent in its iPhones: extremely convincing haptic responses via the Taptic Engine, and 3D Touch in iPhone 6S-and-beyond iPhones.
It looks like they learned from their mistake and newer models have a dedicated escape key next to the touch bar now, for what it's worth.
The Touch Bar has no allowance for accidental presses or force, and even when you intentionally utilise the Touch Bar—like for example, the escape key in Vim—the outcome is the least desirable haptic experience imaginable.
It looks like they learned from their mistake and newer models have a dedicated escape key next to the touch bar now, for what it's worth.
I do prefer it over hardware buttons now, but it's possible that's what 3 years of drinking the kool-aid does. What I would ultimately like to see is this feature with better haptic feedback. It's...
I do prefer it over hardware buttons now, but it's possible that's what 3 years of drinking the kool-aid does. What I would ultimately like to see is this feature with better haptic feedback.
It's also egregious that there was no hardware esc key, but I always remap capslock to esc and tend to use that anyways.
Yeah, I just got a mac for the first time in like 7 years and the touch bar works for me, and I was pretty primed to find it a stupid gimmick. The 2020 model has a hardware escape key, so that...
Yeah, I just got a mac for the first time in like 7 years and the touch bar works for me, and I was pretty primed to find it a stupid gimmick. The 2020 model has a hardware escape key, so that hasn't been an issue for me at all. Unlike what @emdash said it is significantly faster than pressing keys to change volume or brightness. I also find that it is useful to me about the same percentage of the time function keys were. I haven't had any accidental presses either. I think there is plenty of room to improve, mostly on the software side, but I think it definitely has a place.
I actually really dislike using keys for the volume / brightness adjustments now. I legitimately almost got a 2020 model just for the hardware esc. I'm still thinking about it.
I actually really dislike using keys for the volume / brightness adjustments now.
I legitimately almost got a 2020 model just for the hardware esc.
There's a lot I agree with in here but this is laughable.
There's a lot I agree with in here but this is laughable.
Additionally, many pictures on websites appear blurry because they are not "retina-optimized". The same happens with some old applications which display crappy icons or improperly proportioned layouts. This is not Apple's fault, but it affects the user experience.
I’m using my mother’s MacBook Air after a technological apocalypse doomed both my computers. It’s not a new model. I think I’d be crazy if I wasn’t an Emacs user because macOS has no concept of...
I’m using my mother’s MacBook Air after a technological apocalypse doomed both my computers. It’s not a new model.
I think I’d be crazy if I wasn’t an Emacs user because macOS has no concept of tiling windows and the incantation of gestures that were supposed to put windows side by side does not work.
The keyboard is super weird too, there are combinations for even the most exoteric characters that no one really needs that much. The Option/Meta/Alt key is most useless because of that. That’s a serious problem for Emacs, but the maintainer of Doom Emacs was kind enough to provide me a solution. I had to install Karabiner to make it usable overall, but the keyboard still misses essencial keys, making several combinations very hard to access. I resorted to an external keyboard.
I tried using a tiling window manager of sorts but these things are necessarily hacks — Apple does not want people to mess with their system and it shows. I hate using the mouse and macOS Mojave is quite inflexible in that regard. I would install Catalina but I’m afraid it would make this old machine slow.
The touchpad is nice, although I prefer my vertical mouse, which I rarely use due to a combination of Iterm, Vimium, and Emacs.
The system is fairly stable, the machine seems sturdy and the battery life is great, I’ll give you that.
But if I owned this machine it would be running Linux.
Can't you just use tmux? For myself the only thing I ever want to tile are shells and CLIs. Tiling a GUI I have to interact with using a mouse feels like an anti-pattern.
Can't you just use tmux? For myself the only thing I ever want to tile are shells and CLIs. Tiling a GUI I have to interact with using a mouse feels like an anti-pattern.
Thanks. Wouldn’t make much of a diference because I don’t have any issues within Emacs but do have to keep a web browser open most of the time that I wish I could tile. And iTerm is configured as...
Thanks.
Wouldn’t make much of a diference because I don’t have any issues within Emacs but do have to keep a web browser open most of the time that I wish I could tile. And iTerm is configured as a drop down terminal.
I wonder why he opted for a MacBook Pro 13” instead of a newer MacBook Air. I don’t think anybody considers the 13” version of the MacBook Pro to be a great laptop. It’s in an awkward position as...
I wonder why he opted for a MacBook Pro 13” instead of a newer MacBook Air. I don’t think anybody considers the 13” version of the MacBook Pro to be a great laptop. It’s in an awkward position as it’s not an ultralight, and also isn’t very powerful considering it doesn’t have a discrete GPU.
A lot of the reviewer’s gripes would likely not be resolved by going for an Air, but stuff like the battery life and complaints about the trackpad and Touch Bar might be alleviated or totally rectified.
What sort of connectivity would you like to see? Gigabit+ Ethernet? I can see an argument that Apple is being too forward-thinking by embracing purely TB3+USB-C, but in terms of actual "pro"...
It lacks connectivity
What sort of connectivity would you like to see? Gigabit+ Ethernet? I can see an argument that Apple is being too forward-thinking by embracing purely TB3+USB-C, but in terms of actual "pro" connectivity... what else exists that is a deal-breaker versus any other "pro" laptop?
The only thing that realistically comes to mind is an SD card slot for photographers. I can sympathise with that particular demographic—but at the same time I would like to see improvements in the mirrorless camera industry too to make automatic photo syncing with a companion device more commonplace. Fiddling around with SD cards isn't fun.
Ethernet: thunderbolt 3 makes it easy to attach a gigabit or even 10g Ethernet adapter. You could criticize the dongle aspect, and the advantages and disadvantages will have to be judged on a...
Ethernet: thunderbolt 3 makes it easy to attach a gigabit or even 10g Ethernet adapter. You could criticize the dongle aspect, and the advantages and disadvantages will have to be judged on a person by person basis. Most people will only use Ethernet at a pre-setup work area. In that case, thunderbolt allows a single cable to connect to Ethernet and a variety of other devices.
Display: Apple has not had full-size display plugs on their devices for years. They used to use thunderbolt 2, which doubled as Mini DisplayPort. You would still need to carry a dongle or special cable. Nothing changed with the switch to thunderbolt 3 except needing to buy a new dongle.
SD: An sd slot would be awesome. I can absolutely agree with that.
Serial: Why? I know serial is still sometimes used in industry, but why should it be part of the laptop? Doesn’t a usb to serial adapter work just fine? As for including an adapter in the box, why should everyone who purchases a MacBook pay extra for a device that only a small portion of people will use?
I cannot defend the cooling or the thinness, except to say that most users have a very bursty cpu usage. Besides that, I agree. Why does it have to have these display adapters built in or...
I cannot defend the cooling or the thinness, except to say that most users have a very bursty cpu usage. Besides that, I agree.
Why does it have to have these display adapters built in or included? If less than 100% of people would use an accessory, why would they include it in the box? Why should everyone pay for a device they will not use? My previous laptop was a surface pro. When I bought it, I got a usb Ethernet adapter and a Mini DisplayPort to HDMI adapter to keep in its case. I have used the Ethernet adapter about 4 times and have never used the HDMI adapter. I will admit that I am not really a professional user, but I don’t think that my use case is that different than many professionals.
The MBP is not trying to be the only device you will ever buy, it is trying to be a professional laptop. A professional can budget for the accessories they need.
I think you are vastly overstating the Apple tax. I have been curious about this for a while, so I am going to find some laptops that are directly comparable to the MBP and see what the price and...
I think you are vastly overstating the Apple tax. I have been curious about this for a while, so I am going to find some laptops that are directly comparable to the MBP and see what the price and spec difference is.
This is what I found: Thinkpad T490
Configuration: i5 10210u, which is 10th gen compared to the MBP 8th gen i5
W10 home, pro is an extra $60
8gb soldered memory, DDR4 vs MBP LPDDR3
512gb pcie ssd, to directly compare with the $1500 MBP
2560x1440 display to compare with MBP at 2560x1600
Fingerprint reader
This comes out to $1593.20. This is $94.20 more than the $1499 MBP I was trying to spec it the same as. For the price increase, you get 10th gen processor, ddr4, and WiFi 6. These prices seem reasonable to me.
Just to try to make this more fair, let’s bump the MBP to the 10th gen spec at 1799. To maintain parity, I added 8gb add in memory. If you select 16gb soldered, it gives you an Nvidia discrete GPU. I want to maintain feature parity for this comparison, but I will admit that there should be an option for discrete graphics on the MBP.
So the price comes to $1799 for the MBP and $1711.50 for the thinkpad, which is $87.5 in the thinkpads favor. For the price increase, the MBP gives you 3733MHz memory vs the thinkpads 2400MHz. The MBP has a slightly higher base clock and a slightly lower boost clock. You do still get WiFi 6 on the thinkpad as opposed to WiFi 5 on the MBP.
My takeaway: The MBP seems to be competitively priced. The only “Apple tax” in my comparison was +- $100, which seems reasonable. Every system integrator will have different prices, and this seems to be within a reasonable margin.
The other Apple tax you pay is significantly less options for the initial laptop and repair/upgradability. You are stuck with whatever configurations Apple wants to provide. In this case you can’t have WiFi 6, a discrete gpu, and the 8th gen model has 2 fewer thunderbolt ports. The advantages and disadvantages of these must be decided on a per-consumer basis. I will never defend Apple’s practices around repairability or upgradability. For the sake of comparison, if we assume that consumers will not take advantage of the repairability or upgradability (as most do not), Apple seems reasonable.
I did not spend a lot of time on Lenovo’s website, so I am sure that other options exist that have different, and possibly better pricing. I would love if you could share your example of a laptop that is less than half the price of a MBP with feature parity.
It sounds like you got a great laptop that is perfect for your use case. FWIW, Lenovo’s website lists it as $849, but out of stock. To get to a similar internal specs, you have to spend...
It sounds like you got a great laptop that is perfect for your use case. FWIW, Lenovo’s website lists it as $849, but out of stock.
To get to a similar internal specs, you have to spend $1500-$2000 depending on what specs you are targeting.
But this is not an apples to apples comparison (can I use that phrase?). On the low end of my listed price range, you get an i5 instead of an i7, also 8th generation. I don’t care enough to look into the performance differences, but I can’t imagine they are that large. You also get ddr3 instead of ddr4, at a slightly lower speed. Again, likely not a large performance difference.
Near the top end of my price range, you get a 10th gen i7, which means a faster processor and better gpu. You also get significantly faster lpddr4x ram at 3733MHz. These differences would likely have a noticeable performance impact.
Lenovo states they use a pcie ssd, but has no further details, so I can’t compare them. I can say that Apple uses extremely high quality nvme ssds, so the MBP is probably better on that front.
I don’t know what the quality of Lenovo’s keyboard is, but apples Is often considered one of the best keyboards on the market.
The biggest difference is the screen. The MBP has a 2560x1600 screen vs the Lenovo’s 1080p. It also has 500 nits peak brightness, P3 color, and “True Tone”. In short, the MBP has a top of the line display and the Lenovo has a pretty standard ips panel.
These are different classes of product. Apple does not make a product to compete with the T480.
What is this extension cord issue he is talking about? An extension cord will generally not add any additional grounding that didn't exist at the reciprocal.
What is this extension cord issue he is talking about? An extension cord will generally not add any additional grounding that didn't exist at the reciprocal.
He's referring to this cord (compare to the flip-out plug connected to the adapter in that image). The cord has a ground pin; the flip-out plug does not.
He's referring to this cord (compare to the flip-out plug connected to the adapter in that image). The cord has a ground pin; the flip-out plug does not.
Yea, you also get this from cheap knockoff power adapters. The metal parts that are supposed to carry grounding are plastic in those and you permanently feel that electric vibration while using...
Yea, you also get this from cheap knockoff power adapters. The metal parts that are supposed to carry grounding are plastic in those and you permanently feel that electric vibration while using the touchpad. It's honestly bizarre that this is an issue with the official adapter, I never realized that since I mostly use the extension cable, anyway.
There is a ground connector in the Macbook power adapter which the grounded cord connects to (the "button" at right angles to the figure-eight connector). You can use a regular ungrounded...
Oh cool, I didn't realise that bit was also an electrical connection - I thought it just held the attachment in place! I've just checked my own charger (2019 MacBook Pro, UK plug, no extension...
Oh cool, I didn't realise that bit was also an electrical connection - I thought it just held the attachment in place!
I've just checked my own charger (2019 MacBook Pro, UK plug, no extension cord) and it has three metal pins but no link from the ground to the internal button. All UK sockets need three pins to work mechanically, but the third is often plastic, so it seems even more frustrating that they used a metal one and then didn't connect it.
Wow, that webcam comparison is shocking. I thought they were always bad.
It really is—even more so in the era of video conferencing and increased quarantine time, having a 720p webcam with a puny sensor for light collection, which, lets face it, are often used in dimly lit apartment rooms, resulting in insanely noisy images; is especially egregious.
I wonder if it's a function of the thinness of the display lid on the device though. How can that be realistically worked around?
It can be worked around by letting users stream A/V from the cameras and mics in their smartphones which are most likely the best cameras and mics they own (unless they have a home studio setup, in which case they can just use that equipment). This becomes a software problem that some video conferencing apps are beginning to support. Eventually I expect devices to be intelligent enough to suggest the user to delegate things like this to the best option available from the resources a user has. If any company could make this seamless it would be Apple, but they definitely don’t have it solved yet.
I think it’s kind of silly that laptops have these horrible cameras built-in to the lids. Nobody likes them and plenty of people would opt not to get them if they were optional. Half of laptops I see have a piece of tape or some other form of cover over the webcam anyway. It’s so wasteful.
Yeah, I'm one of those people with tape on my webcam haha.. If it were an option I'd absolutely buy a macbook pro without a camera despite the fact that I do a lot of video conferencing simply because there are much better alternatives on the market which only have to be connected when it suits me.
Keep it reasonable, please. This was a ridiculously over-dramatic comment.
I consider myself a "pro" user and there are two things that stand out to me. I have a 2016 MBP.
The thing that I agree with most is that the camera still kind of sucks. It's strange to me that they didn't update the camera.
Do you actually prefer it to the buttons though? Volume adjustment, brightness, that can all be done with buttons in a satisfactory manner, but I haven't had the chance to try out the touch bar (though I have to admit, I don't really want to).
Another take on the Touch Bar from me, who is very much an Apple fan (critic?—all good fans should have enough insight into the company to be critical of actions and be able to recognise mis-steps).
It's a gimmick.
Honestly even since I've had a TB MBP—which is from 2018—I haven't used it outside of system configuration such as brightness or volume control, and even then it's a chore to use. It's significantly slower than just pressing volume/brightness up/down. There isn't a single use I can think of that actually makes it a feature for me. No apps take advantage of it to the extent that make it desirable to have above your keyboard—even a lot of Apple's own apps don't portray convincing use cases for it.
And then, there's the accidental presses. My fingers rest on the function row occasionally—like the author's does. The Touch Bar has no allowance for accidental presses or force, and even when you intentionally utilise the Touch Bar—like for example, the escape key in Vim—the outcome is the least desirable haptic experience imaginable. Which on its face seems ridiculous to me, as these are two technologies Apple has utilised to great extent in its iPhones: extremely convincing haptic responses via the Taptic Engine, and 3D Touch in iPhone 6S-and-beyond iPhones.
It looks like they learned from their mistake and newer models have a dedicated escape key next to the touch bar now, for what it's worth.
I do prefer it over hardware buttons now, but it's possible that's what 3 years of drinking the kool-aid does. What I would ultimately like to see is this feature with better haptic feedback.
It's also egregious that there was no hardware
esckey, but I always remapcapslocktoescand tend to use that anyways.Yeah, I just got a mac for the first time in like 7 years and the touch bar works for me, and I was pretty primed to find it a stupid gimmick. The 2020 model has a hardware escape key, so that hasn't been an issue for me at all. Unlike what @emdash said it is significantly faster than pressing keys to change volume or brightness. I also find that it is useful to me about the same percentage of the time function keys were. I haven't had any accidental presses either. I think there is plenty of room to improve, mostly on the software side, but I think it definitely has a place.
I actually really dislike using keys for the volume / brightness adjustments now.
I legitimately almost got a 2020 model just for the hardware
esc.I'm still thinking about it.
There's a lot I agree with in here but this is laughable.
I’m using my mother’s MacBook Air after a technological apocalypse doomed both my computers. It’s not a new model.
I think I’d be crazy if I wasn’t an Emacs user because macOS has no concept of tiling windows and the incantation of gestures that were supposed to put windows side by side does not work.
The keyboard is super weird too, there are combinations for even the most exoteric characters that no one really needs that much. The Option/Meta/Alt key is most useless because of that. That’s a serious problem for Emacs, but the maintainer of Doom Emacs was kind enough to provide me a solution. I had to install Karabiner to make it usable overall, but the keyboard still misses essencial keys, making several combinations very hard to access. I resorted to an external keyboard.
I tried using a tiling window manager of sorts but these things are necessarily hacks — Apple does not want people to mess with their system and it shows. I hate using the mouse and macOS Mojave is quite inflexible in that regard. I would install Catalina but I’m afraid it would make this old machine slow.
The touchpad is nice, although I prefer my vertical mouse, which I rarely use due to a combination of Iterm, Vimium, and Emacs.
The system is fairly stable, the machine seems sturdy and the battery life is great, I’ll give you that.
But if I owned this machine it would be running Linux.
Can't you just use tmux? For myself the only thing I ever want to tile are shells and CLIs. Tiling a GUI I have to interact with using a mouse feels like an anti-pattern.
Thanks.
Wouldn’t make much of a diference because I don’t have any issues within Emacs but do have to keep a web browser open most of the time that I wish I could tile. And iTerm is configured as a drop down terminal.
I wonder why he opted for a MacBook Pro 13” instead of a newer MacBook Air. I don’t think anybody considers the 13” version of the MacBook Pro to be a great laptop. It’s in an awkward position as it’s not an ultralight, and also isn’t very powerful considering it doesn’t have a discrete GPU.
A lot of the reviewer’s gripes would likely not be resolved by going for an Air, but stuff like the battery life and complaints about the trackpad and Touch Bar might be alleviated or totally rectified.
The MacBook Air 13” is a perfectly good laptop in that form factor (at a lower price point).
What sort of connectivity would you like to see? Gigabit+ Ethernet? I can see an argument that Apple is being too forward-thinking by embracing purely TB3+USB-C, but in terms of actual "pro" connectivity... what else exists that is a deal-breaker versus any other "pro" laptop?
The only thing that realistically comes to mind is an SD card slot for photographers. I can sympathise with that particular demographic—but at the same time I would like to see improvements in the mirrorless camera industry too to make automatic photo syncing with a companion device more commonplace. Fiddling around with SD cards isn't fun.
Ethernet: thunderbolt 3 makes it easy to attach a gigabit or even 10g Ethernet adapter. You could criticize the dongle aspect, and the advantages and disadvantages will have to be judged on a person by person basis. Most people will only use Ethernet at a pre-setup work area. In that case, thunderbolt allows a single cable to connect to Ethernet and a variety of other devices.
Display: Apple has not had full-size display plugs on their devices for years. They used to use thunderbolt 2, which doubled as Mini DisplayPort. You would still need to carry a dongle or special cable. Nothing changed with the switch to thunderbolt 3 except needing to buy a new dongle.
SD: An sd slot would be awesome. I can absolutely agree with that.
Serial: Why? I know serial is still sometimes used in industry, but why should it be part of the laptop? Doesn’t a usb to serial adapter work just fine? As for including an adapter in the box, why should everyone who purchases a MacBook pay extra for a device that only a small portion of people will use?
I cannot defend the cooling or the thinness, except to say that most users have a very bursty cpu usage. Besides that, I agree.
Why does it have to have these display adapters built in or included? If less than 100% of people would use an accessory, why would they include it in the box? Why should everyone pay for a device they will not use? My previous laptop was a surface pro. When I bought it, I got a usb Ethernet adapter and a Mini DisplayPort to HDMI adapter to keep in its case. I have used the Ethernet adapter about 4 times and have never used the HDMI adapter. I will admit that I am not really a professional user, but I don’t think that my use case is that different than many professionals.
The MBP is not trying to be the only device you will ever buy, it is trying to be a professional laptop. A professional can budget for the accessories they need.
I think you are vastly overstating the Apple tax. I have been curious about this for a while, so I am going to find some laptops that are directly comparable to the MBP and see what the price and spec difference is.
This is what I found: Thinkpad T490
Configuration: i5 10210u, which is 10th gen compared to the MBP 8th gen i5
W10 home, pro is an extra $60
8gb soldered memory, DDR4 vs MBP LPDDR3
512gb pcie ssd, to directly compare with the $1500 MBP
2560x1440 display to compare with MBP at 2560x1600
Fingerprint reader
This comes out to $1593.20. This is $94.20 more than the $1499 MBP I was trying to spec it the same as. For the price increase, you get 10th gen processor, ddr4, and WiFi 6. These prices seem reasonable to me.
Just to try to make this more fair, let’s bump the MBP to the 10th gen spec at 1799. To maintain parity, I added 8gb add in memory. If you select 16gb soldered, it gives you an Nvidia discrete GPU. I want to maintain feature parity for this comparison, but I will admit that there should be an option for discrete graphics on the MBP.
So the price comes to $1799 for the MBP and $1711.50 for the thinkpad, which is $87.5 in the thinkpads favor. For the price increase, the MBP gives you 3733MHz memory vs the thinkpads 2400MHz. The MBP has a slightly higher base clock and a slightly lower boost clock. You do still get WiFi 6 on the thinkpad as opposed to WiFi 5 on the MBP.
My takeaway: The MBP seems to be competitively priced. The only “Apple tax” in my comparison was +- $100, which seems reasonable. Every system integrator will have different prices, and this seems to be within a reasonable margin.
The other Apple tax you pay is significantly less options for the initial laptop and repair/upgradability. You are stuck with whatever configurations Apple wants to provide. In this case you can’t have WiFi 6, a discrete gpu, and the 8th gen model has 2 fewer thunderbolt ports. The advantages and disadvantages of these must be decided on a per-consumer basis. I will never defend Apple’s practices around repairability or upgradability. For the sake of comparison, if we assume that consumers will not take advantage of the repairability or upgradability (as most do not), Apple seems reasonable.
I did not spend a lot of time on Lenovo’s website, so I am sure that other options exist that have different, and possibly better pricing. I would love if you could share your example of a laptop that is less than half the price of a MBP with feature parity.
It sounds like you got a great laptop that is perfect for your use case. FWIW, Lenovo’s website lists it as $849, but out of stock.
To get to a similar internal specs, you have to spend $1500-$2000 depending on what specs you are targeting.
But this is not an apples to apples comparison (can I use that phrase?). On the low end of my listed price range, you get an i5 instead of an i7, also 8th generation. I don’t care enough to look into the performance differences, but I can’t imagine they are that large. You also get ddr3 instead of ddr4, at a slightly lower speed. Again, likely not a large performance difference.
Near the top end of my price range, you get a 10th gen i7, which means a faster processor and better gpu. You also get significantly faster lpddr4x ram at 3733MHz. These differences would likely have a noticeable performance impact.
Lenovo states they use a pcie ssd, but has no further details, so I can’t compare them. I can say that Apple uses extremely high quality nvme ssds, so the MBP is probably better on that front.
I don’t know what the quality of Lenovo’s keyboard is, but apples Is often considered one of the best keyboards on the market.
The biggest difference is the screen. The MBP has a 2560x1600 screen vs the Lenovo’s 1080p. It also has 500 nits peak brightness, P3 color, and “True Tone”. In short, the MBP has a top of the line display and the Lenovo has a pretty standard ips panel.
These are different classes of product. Apple does not make a product to compete with the T480.
What is this extension cord issue he is talking about? An extension cord will generally not add any additional grounding that didn't exist at the reciprocal.
He's referring to this cord (compare to the flip-out plug connected to the adapter in that image). The cord has a ground pin; the flip-out plug does not.
Oh damn. I can see why he's upset.
I sometimes have my hand vibrate when moving it over the Mac while charging.
Yea, you also get this from cheap knockoff power adapters. The metal parts that are supposed to carry grounding are plastic in those and you permanently feel that electric vibration while using the touchpad. It's honestly bizarre that this is an issue with the official adapter, I never realized that since I mostly use the extension cable, anyway.
Does the third pin have an impact on a figure eight cable? I didn't think there was a path for it to connect through to the device.
There is a ground connector in the Macbook power adapter which the grounded cord connects to (the "button" at right angles to the figure-eight connector). You can use a regular ungrounded figure-eight plug with it, though obviously you still won't get a ground.
Oh cool, I didn't realise that bit was also an electrical connection - I thought it just held the attachment in place!
I've just checked my own charger (2019 MacBook Pro, UK plug, no extension cord) and it has three metal pins but no link from the ground to the internal button. All UK sockets need three pins to work mechanically, but the third is often plastic, so it seems even more frustrating that they used a metal one and then didn't connect it.