Exactly the reason why I eventually abandoned Opera, despite being a fan for many years (despite it having like < 3% market share for most of its life).
Exactly the reason why I eventually abandoned Opera, despite being a fan for many years (despite it having like < 3% market share for most of its life).
I really miss classic Opera. I kind of wish that they had released it under an open source license. It was one of the few pieces of software that I feel I would have spent money on if it had been...
I really miss classic Opera. I kind of wish that they had released it under an open source license. It was one of the few pieces of software that I feel I would have spent money on if it had been around at a time of my life where I actually had money to spend.
Interestingly enough the new Opera Software is apparently involved in a predatory loans controversy.
I haven't used this new 4.0, but from previous use of Vivaldi it has the classic power user application problem: The vast majority of users need maybe 10% of the power user features (and I think...
I haven't used this new 4.0, but from previous use of Vivaldi it has the classic power user application problem: The vast majority of users need maybe 10% of the power user features (and I think I'm being generous there) but have the clutter and complexity of all of them in things like settings.
But I could be wrong, maybe they've figured out the perfect balance of being simple at a glance but being complex under the hood with the 4.0 release. I'll give it a download when I can.
Yeah, I have been giving it a shot this AM since reading this article. I am primarily a FireFox user but am open to swapping browsers every few years. So far, I have gotten a bit overwhelmed....
Yeah, I have been giving it a shot this AM since reading this article. I am primarily a FireFox user but am open to swapping browsers every few years. So far, I have gotten a bit overwhelmed. There are a ton of customization options. I'm not opposed to this at all, because for some users I know this is a selling point. I can't say that I enjoy having a sidebar for stuff like emails and RSS feeds. It is information overload for me, especially because my inbox needs to be cleaned up a lot.
I will keep using it for the next few days to see how I like it though. It is definitely a pain in the ass to configure a new browser to match exactly what I have configured in Firefox.
To circle back to this, I think I am getting the hang of this new browser. The best feature that I like about it is the Web Panel feature where I can add different sites to it. I have found both...
To circle back to this, I think I am getting the hang of this new browser. The best feature that I like about it is the Web Panel feature where I can add different sites to it. I have found both Tildes and the Google Web Messages app are perfect for this as I can browse/craft replies in the sidebar for Tildes while reading articles. I can also keep a quick pane of incoming text messages as I use the web and respond to those messages without losing my place on whatever page I am looking at.
I'm still working on getting whatever extensions added that I may be missing. But overall, this is starting to feel more and more like a good replacement for Firefox.
What I really care about, and judge an organization for, is their Android browser. For desktop vendors with Android versions, Mozilla's the best thing going I think, because they still allow some...
What I really care about, and judge an organization for, is their Android browser. For desktop vendors with Android versions, Mozilla's the best thing going I think, because they still allow some extensions (Kiwi, basing on old Chromium code, is inconsistent with updates). I just played with Vivaldi, and may try switching to it based on the strength of its adblock, but I really wish Android browser extensions hadn't gotten the axe by all major developers (Firefox has a list of "approved" extensions). My primary concern is I want to be able to use my browser in the same manner across devices. Even with different extension ecosystems, most desktop browsers do most of the same things these days.
Vivaldi seems nice, I may try using it exclusively for a bit, but the major killer for me is no Bitwarden extension (or any extension) available on Android. To me, their Android experience seems to be marching in lock step with the rest of the market.
On android I just use Bitwarden app. Using the accessibilty overlay works in almost every app, plus then add the android app uri to the web uri as well.
On android I just use Bitwarden app. Using the accessibilty overlay works in almost every app, plus then add the android app uri to the web uri as well.
Of course I'm using it, been a happy opera user since... forever. The mouse gestures alone prevent me from using other browsers (there's extensions but they suck usually).
Of course I'm using it, been a happy opera user since... forever. The mouse gestures alone prevent me from using other browsers (there's extensions but they suck usually).
There have been recent discussions here about browsers and the decline of Firefox/Mozilla, and this article came up in my feed recently. The last post about Vivaldi was nearly a year ago and it...
There have been recent discussions here about browsers and the decline of Firefox/Mozilla, and this article came up in my feed recently. The last post about Vivaldi was nearly a year ago and it appears Vivaldi just released a new version (4.0), so I'm wondering what everyone thinks.
The integration with mail, calendar and a feed are big bonuses for me (tried Thunderbird for almost a year now but I'm dissatisfied), especially if it works well and will eventually work across devices.
Going full circle again. Mozilla was originally a giant bothemoth with functionality of both Thunderbird and Firefox (and other stuff IIRC). The split was to minimize bloat and hone each app to...
Going full circle again.
Mozilla was originally a giant bothemoth with functionality of both Thunderbird and Firefox (and other stuff IIRC). The split was to minimize bloat and hone each app to its usecase better.
Both Vivaldi and Brave are based on Chromium (which is open source), just as Google Chrome is. They are basically Chrome with a different coat of paint and some details changed, but still with the...
Does anyone know how Vivaldi compares to other niche browsers like Brave?
Both Vivaldi and Brave are based on Chromium (which is open source), just as Google Chrome is.
They are basically Chrome with a different coat of paint and some details changed, but still with the same internals.
Chromium lacks the following Chrome features:
Automatic browser updates
API keys for some Google services, including browser sync
The Widevine DRM module
Licensed codecs for the popular H.264 video and AAC audio formats
Tracking mechanisms for usage and crash reports
People say “built on chromium” as a shorthand but really it’s built on v8 and blink, Chrome’s JavaScript engine and renderer respectively. That distinction is important from a developer point of...
People say “built on chromium” as a shorthand but really it’s built on v8 and blink, Chrome’s JavaScript engine and renderer respectively. That distinction is important from a developer point of view - it’s why there are so many browsers built off of Chrome internals and none built off of Firefox internals.
Chrome had the benefit of being developed later, and was able to avoid pitfalls of earlier browsers. What was almost certainly just a technical decision to make the codebase cleaner and easier to test has paid dividends in product strategy. Chrome was designed in a very modular way. The renderer, js engine, etc are all discrete and speak to each other with message passing.
This means nodejs can easily copt v8 and use it as just a js interpreter. v8 is designed in a way such that it doesn’t care what it’s used for - another process hands it some JavaScript and it runs it. It means you can easily build a browser and just have it delegate js operations to v8 and delegate html rendering to blink.
On the other hand, to use gecko, it’s so tightly integrated with Firefox itself you’d have to fork Firefox in its entirety.
None of these browsers are literally built on Chromium, as that would be a task equally as difficult to both start and maintain upstream changes as forking Firefox into a new browser.
I understand that you're speaking from a developer perspective, but I am not. Therefore to me, saying that Vivaldi is based on Chromium is enough. It's also backed up by the Wikipedia entry on...
Go read through to @stu2b50's comment The other major thing is Vivaldi isn't attempting to create a new crypto-based monetization system, whereas that's a major draw for Brave, they're just trying...
The other major thing is Vivaldi isn't attempting to create a new crypto-based monetization system, whereas that's a major draw for Brave, they're just trying to create a functional multi-use web application for browsing, email, and feeds (the last two coming in 4, but also being features I wouldn't use).
Isn't Vivaldi using the Chrome engine (Blink i think)? No way i'm going to change from Mozilla.
It is still a way to push the monopoly of Chrome.
Gecko is apparently extremely difficult to separate from firefox. Servo was meant to solve this.
Too bad Mozilla abandoned it.
Id happliy use it, if it was open source. As it is, Ill stick with firefox.
Exactly the reason why I eventually abandoned Opera, despite being a fan for many years (despite it having like < 3% market share for most of its life).
I really miss classic Opera. I kind of wish that they had released it under an open source license. It was one of the few pieces of software that I feel I would have spent money on if it had been around at a time of my life where I actually had money to spend.
Interestingly enough the new Opera Software is apparently involved in a predatory loans controversy.
I haven't used this new 4.0, but from previous use of Vivaldi it has the classic power user application problem: The vast majority of users need maybe 10% of the power user features (and I think I'm being generous there) but have the clutter and complexity of all of them in things like settings.
But I could be wrong, maybe they've figured out the perfect balance of being simple at a glance but being complex under the hood with the 4.0 release. I'll give it a download when I can.
Yeah, I have been giving it a shot this AM since reading this article. I am primarily a FireFox user but am open to swapping browsers every few years. So far, I have gotten a bit overwhelmed. There are a ton of customization options. I'm not opposed to this at all, because for some users I know this is a selling point. I can't say that I enjoy having a sidebar for stuff like emails and RSS feeds. It is information overload for me, especially because my inbox needs to be cleaned up a lot.
I will keep using it for the next few days to see how I like it though. It is definitely a pain in the ass to configure a new browser to match exactly what I have configured in Firefox.
To circle back to this, I think I am getting the hang of this new browser. The best feature that I like about it is the Web Panel feature where I can add different sites to it. I have found both Tildes and the Google Web Messages app are perfect for this as I can browse/craft replies in the sidebar for Tildes while reading articles. I can also keep a quick pane of incoming text messages as I use the web and respond to those messages without losing my place on whatever page I am looking at.
I'm still working on getting whatever extensions added that I may be missing. But overall, this is starting to feel more and more like a good replacement for Firefox.
What I really care about, and judge an organization for, is their Android browser. For desktop vendors with Android versions, Mozilla's the best thing going I think, because they still allow some extensions (Kiwi, basing on old Chromium code, is inconsistent with updates). I just played with Vivaldi, and may try switching to it based on the strength of its adblock, but I really wish Android browser extensions hadn't gotten the axe by all major developers (Firefox has a list of "approved" extensions). My primary concern is I want to be able to use my browser in the same manner across devices. Even with different extension ecosystems, most desktop browsers do most of the same things these days.
Vivaldi seems nice, I may try using it exclusively for a bit, but the major killer for me is no Bitwarden extension (or any extension) available on Android. To me, their Android experience seems to be marching in lock step with the rest of the market.
On android I just use Bitwarden app. Using the accessibilty overlay works in almost every app, plus then add the android app uri to the web uri as well.
Why did I think it was the extension doing that? Thanks a lot!
Of course I'm using it, been a happy opera user since... forever. The mouse gestures alone prevent me from using other browsers (there's extensions but they suck usually).
There have been recent discussions here about browsers and the decline of Firefox/Mozilla, and this article came up in my feed recently. The last post about Vivaldi was nearly a year ago and it appears Vivaldi just released a new version (4.0), so I'm wondering what everyone thinks.
The integration with mail, calendar and a feed are big bonuses for me (tried Thunderbird for almost a year now but I'm dissatisfied), especially if it works well and will eventually work across devices.
Going full circle again.
Mozilla was originally a giant bothemoth with functionality of both Thunderbird and Firefox (and other stuff IIRC). The split was to minimize bloat and hone each app to its usecase better.
The main reason I don't use Vivald is that it just feels slower than Chrome/Firefox. There's no way around it.
Does anyone know how Vivaldi compares to other niche browsers like Brave?
Both Vivaldi and Brave are based on Chromium (which is open source), just as Google Chrome is.
They are basically Chrome with a different coat of paint and some details changed, but still with the same internals.
People say “built on chromium” as a shorthand but really it’s built on v8 and blink, Chrome’s JavaScript engine and renderer respectively. That distinction is important from a developer point of view - it’s why there are so many browsers built off of Chrome internals and none built off of Firefox internals.
Chrome had the benefit of being developed later, and was able to avoid pitfalls of earlier browsers. What was almost certainly just a technical decision to make the codebase cleaner and easier to test has paid dividends in product strategy. Chrome was designed in a very modular way. The renderer, js engine, etc are all discrete and speak to each other with message passing.
This means nodejs can easily copt v8 and use it as just a js interpreter. v8 is designed in a way such that it doesn’t care what it’s used for - another process hands it some JavaScript and it runs it. It means you can easily build a browser and just have it delegate js operations to v8 and delegate html rendering to blink.
On the other hand, to use gecko, it’s so tightly integrated with Firefox itself you’d have to fork Firefox in its entirety.
None of these browsers are literally built on Chromium, as that would be a task equally as difficult to both start and maintain upstream changes as forking Firefox into a new browser.
I understand that you're speaking from a developer perspective, but I am not. Therefore to me, saying that Vivaldi is based on Chromium is enough. It's also backed up by the Wikipedia entry on which browsers use Chromium and Vivaldi's own blog.
Go read through to @stu2b50's comment
The other major thing is Vivaldi isn't attempting to create a new crypto-based monetization system, whereas that's a major draw for Brave, they're just trying to create a functional multi-use web application for browsing, email, and feeds (the last two coming in 4, but also being features I wouldn't use).
Well their CEO probably doesn't donate money to anti-LGBT causes.