It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. In my opinion Barnett arranging his own death in a manner to inflict maximum harm on Boeing seems at least as likely as someone at Boeing engaging...
It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
In my opinion Barnett arranging his own death in a manner to inflict maximum harm on Boeing seems at least as likely as someone at Boeing engaging in murder conspiracy.
Honestly, him being alive to testify would do 10000x more harm than a convoluted suicide scheme. If his allegations are true, there are potentially billions of dollars and decades of jailtime in...
Honestly, him being alive to testify would do 10000x more harm than a convoluted suicide scheme.
If his allegations are true, there are potentially billions of dollars and decades of jailtime in the cards. People get killed frequently over far less.
Why? He already did the whistle blowing. The case was him suing Boeing for alleged retribution. I fail to see how a whistleblower retaliation case would turn into “billions of dollars and decades...
Why? He already did the whistle blowing. The case was him suing Boeing for alleged retribution. I fail to see how a whistleblower retaliation case would turn into “billions of dollars and decades of jailtime”. For one, it wasn’t even a criminal trial, so no one could have gone to jail.
How is this better than settling, giving him a bunch of money, and having it blow over?
Pretty much exactly. The entire "Boeing had him killed" narrative seems to completely ignore the facts of his case or the timeline. Or how hard a real life hit is, not some movie filled fantasy....
Pretty much exactly. The entire "Boeing had him killed" narrative seems to completely ignore the facts of his case or the timeline. Or how hard a real life hit is, not some movie filled fantasy. Let alone getting away with it or staging it as a suicide.
One of the most absurd things about it is if you have the power to do that, then you probably have the power to just ignore the lawsuit in the first place. Why bother to have them killed? The amount of imbalance present in the legal system is notorious, and if you've somehow got the funds and connections to engineer this awful deed, then you've probably got 100 others ways to make your issues go away that don't put a GIANT spotlight on you.
You're right, I am mixing up some of my details. However, if he refused to settle, would it not open Boeing up to court-ordered discovery? I feel they'd do damn near anything to avoid that...
You're right, I am mixing up some of my details.
However, if he refused to settle, would it not open Boeing up to court-ordered discovery? I feel they'd do damn near anything to avoid that possibility.
That...and people get killed for grudges all the time. It's entirely possible something got personal.
Sure, but the discovery has to pertain to the case, and the question of the matter is whether or not Boeing retaliated, not what nefarious things they do on their planes, and Boeing can also...
Sure, but the discovery has to pertain to the case, and the question of the matter is whether or not Boeing retaliated, not what nefarious things they do on their planes, and Boeing can also request the judge seal pieces of evidence from public view, a request which would most likely be granted in this case.
That...and people get killed for grudges all the time. It's entirely possible something got personal.
And that's why I'm highly skeptical it was murder. This is extremely flimsy motivation. The C-suite of Boeing got together, and one dude was like "Man I really hate this guy from 2019, fuck giving him settlement money, let's just murder him" and the rest of them just said "cool, make sure to expensive by the end of the month"? This is highly stupid strategically.
Is a rogue Boeing executive? Who feels that personally maligned? It wouldn't even be Boeing in that case, anyway.
Like it's not an easy, emotionally or logistically, to put a hit on someone, especially if you're not a sovereign nation.
Yeah, and telling your family and friends "If something happens to me, it wasn't suicide." sounds like a joke statement. Suicide is not typically planned. Suicide is typically a spur of the moment...
Yeah, and telling your family and friends "If something happens to me, it wasn't suicide." sounds like a joke statement. Suicide is not typically planned. Suicide is typically a spur of the moment decision that can be avoided with a simple distraction. That's why the suicide hotline saves lives. Getting someone to stop for a second can get them past their suicidal thoughts and prevent tragedies.
Maybe he was just nervous and made an impulsive decision. I understand the desire for family and friends to not want to accept a loved one killed themselves, but we are random people on the internet. We have the privilege of not getting emotional about this.
It's not necessarily a joke, activists do say this quite a bit, it comes from a place of some paranoia mixed with genuine concern about their interactions with law enforcement. However you're...
It's not necessarily a joke, activists do say this quite a bit, it comes from a place of some paranoia mixed with genuine concern about their interactions with law enforcement.
However you're right that it's possible that despite that intent in the past, he did make a different choice in that moment.
I really want you to find me an actual source on this. In my understanding, having a concrete plan for suicide is one of the bigger warning signs and is a huge contributor to classifying someone's...
Suicide is not typically planned
I really want you to find me an actual source on this. In my understanding, having a concrete plan for suicide is one of the bigger warning signs and is a huge contributor to classifying someone's suicidal ideation as active rather than passive.
Having a concrete plan is absolutely a risk factor, and most folks give warning signs in the week before an attempt even if unplanned. But planned vs impulsive suicide attempts are something that...
I really want you to find me an actual source on this. In my understanding, having a concrete plan for suicide is one of the bigger warning signs and is a huge contributor to classifying someone's suicidal ideation as active rather than passive.
Having a concrete plan is absolutely a risk factor, and most folks give warning signs in the week before an attempt even if unplanned. But planned vs impulsive suicide attempts are something that sometimes gets separated in the literature. I'm on a guest WiFi and already getting Google giving me the hotline number so I can do a bit more digging later.
Impulsive attempts seem more common overall with a brief glance at the numbers but even those can contain a "if I were ever to do it, I'd do it like this" sort of plan especially for people who are chronically suicidal.
(988 for Americans seeking help... In case anyone needs it. )
Yeah that "if I were to do it, it'd be like this" type of plan was what came to mind -- when my depression was worse this was what therapists seemed to probe for (luckily I never got there).
Yeah that "if I were to do it, it'd be like this" type of plan was what came to mind -- when my depression was worse this was what therapists seemed to probe for (luckily I never got there).
Yeah I don't have the stats, that isn't a number that I have in my suicide prevention training. Which is a thing I do a lot and now I'm considering adding that.
Yeah I don't have the stats, that isn't a number that I have in my suicide prevention training. Which is a thing I do a lot and now I'm considering adding that.
I'd say that's among the least likely possibilities. This is Boeing though, they're not just an ancient behemoth in aerospace, they're also a defense contractor. The number of direct and indirect...
The C-suite of Boeing got together
I'd say that's among the least likely possibilities. This is Boeing though, they're not just an ancient behemoth in aerospace, they're also a defense contractor. The number of direct and indirect stakeholders are near endless.
There are plenty of people in the military industrial complex that wouldn't have a problem with causing a murder to be carried out. And so much potentially damaging information to want to stop from coming out.
That doesn't mean he was murdered of course, just that the possibility isn't a stretch.
It certainly doesn't have to be a room full of mustache stroking big wigs. It's kind of dismissive to paint it as in if it must have been a group of nodding C-suite executives smoking cigars and...
It certainly doesn't have to be a room full of mustache stroking big wigs. It's kind of dismissive to paint it as in if it must have been a group of nodding C-suite executives smoking cigars and drinking whiskey or whatever. If it was a hired hit, Occam's razor points towards someone with ties to Boeing having made a decision (a big shareholder, a really passionate employee, a state representative who has received many generous donations - any number of possible scenarios), not that it was a coordinated or well thought out effort.
It's not the mustache stroking part, it's that I think it's highly unlikely it was any group of people. Because the decision makes no sense. The compensation lawsuit was of little threat to...
It's not the mustache stroking part, it's that I think it's highly unlikely it was any group of people. Because the decision makes no sense. The compensation lawsuit was of little threat to Boeing. This puts a way larger magnifying glass than a retaliation case every would for a whisteblower most people forgot about by now.
So then it was a rogue, hot-headed personal decision by someone that may be associated with Boeing. It can't have been a fully rational actor. At that point, I wouldn't call it "Boeing kills whistleblower" even if that was the case, but regardless I find that unlikely. Who exactly would be so invested? Why would they have the resources to get an assassin? Why would they murder him now, and not in the 4 prior years?
There's a reason that whenever someone thinks they're talking to a hitman it's usually the FBI (or occasionally a guy in prison with them who immediately goes to the COs)
There's a reason that whenever someone thinks they're talking to a hitman it's usually the FBI (or occasionally a guy in prison with them who immediately goes to the COs)
Whistleblowing to the media and testifying under oath are two very different things. In these legal matters, nothing has been said until it's been said under oath.
Whistleblowing to the media and testifying under oath are two very different things. In these legal matters, nothing has been said until it's been said under oath.
He whistleblew to the FAA, who then actually did an inspection and found the mistakes in sampled planes. Presumably the FAA then made Boeing fix the issues, not that it evidently prevented more...
He whistleblew to the FAA, who then actually did an inspection and found the mistakes in sampled planes. Presumably the FAA then made Boeing fix the issues, not that it evidently prevented more serious issues from emerging.
He wouldn't even be testifying about what he whistleblew, but that Boeing discriminated against him illegally in a retaliatory manner after he notified the FAA.
He wouldn't have commit suicide specifically to hurt Boeing. He would have done it for other reasons. If he blamed Boeing for the circumstances that made him feel that he needed to take his own...
He wouldn't have commit suicide specifically to hurt Boeing. He would have done it for other reasons. If he blamed Boeing for the circumstances that made him feel that he needed to take his own life though, then he might have seen staging or as a conspiracy as a form of payback.
Thanks for sharing this. I went to check out what Reddit had to say about this and the top 50 commenters were totally certain that Boeing had this guy killed. Possible? Sure. But there are a lot...
Thanks for sharing this. I went to check out what Reddit had to say about this and the top 50 commenters were totally certain that Boeing had this guy killed.
Possible? Sure. But there are a lot of other possibilities, some seeming more likely than others.
He could have been blacklisted from the industry and fallen into depression from all the stress. Perhaps he just killed himself with no real intentions toward Boeing. Perhaps he wanted to hurt Boeing as much as possible - many people have shot up entire office buildings and committed suicide over far pettier workplace slights. Perhaps he was murdered by Boeing. Or perhaps someone else close to him saw an opportunity to kill him knowing everyone would blame Boeing.
To be honest, my money is on regular old suicide. Only because the least complicated answer is usually correct. But hey, anyone who has seen a great true crime documentary knows that crazier things have happened than hired hits.
On that note, possibly the only reason I’m willing to believe this was a hired hit is because of the recent eBay stalking scandal. Getting internally labeled as trolls got the victims death...
But hey, anyone who has seen a great true crime documentary knows that crazier things have happened than hired hits.
On that note, possibly the only reason I’m willing to believe this was a hired hit is because of the recent eBay stalking scandal. Getting internally labeled as trolls got the victims death threats, public humiliation, (planned) property damage and apparently a shipment of spiders. Which is so far beyond the line even if they were trolls that it needs no explanation.
My point being, if people like that are in charge of Boeing, and actual monetary damages and criminal investigations are involved, I could see them considering a hired hit.
I look forward to finding out just how stupid Boeing is. I was operating under the assumption that they behaved like an evil multinational and harassed the whistleblower to suicide - if it comes...
I look forward to finding out just how stupid Boeing is. I was operating under the assumption that they behaved like an evil multinational and harassed the whistleblower to suicide - if it comes out that they're genuinely stupid enough to have a whistleblower killed while the eyes of the entire world are upon them then I'm going to be impressed by the new paths of stupidity being forged.
Of course, I will also be incredibly insufferably smug to all of the 'nothing ever happens' liberals in my life, but that's just stopping to sniff the roses.
There's definitely a lot we don't know yet, but I must say this is a very strange death. But these are still early days, we don't have an autopsy report, we don't have police findings, and we...
There's definitely a lot we don't know yet, but I must say this is a very strange death. But these are still early days, we don't have an autopsy report, we don't have police findings, and we don't have other pieces of evidence such as whether he flew out to his depositions with a firearm. It's definitely captured my attention, however, and I'm curious to find out what happened.
It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
In my opinion Barnett arranging his own death in a manner to inflict maximum harm on Boeing seems at least as likely as someone at Boeing engaging in murder conspiracy.
Honestly, him being alive to testify would do 10000x more harm than a convoluted suicide scheme.
If his allegations are true, there are potentially billions of dollars and decades of jailtime in the cards. People get killed frequently over far less.
Why? He already did the whistle blowing. The case was him suing Boeing for alleged retribution. I fail to see how a whistleblower retaliation case would turn into “billions of dollars and decades of jailtime”. For one, it wasn’t even a criminal trial, so no one could have gone to jail.
How is this better than settling, giving him a bunch of money, and having it blow over?
Pretty much exactly. The entire "Boeing had him killed" narrative seems to completely ignore the facts of his case or the timeline. Or how hard a real life hit is, not some movie filled fantasy. Let alone getting away with it or staging it as a suicide.
One of the most absurd things about it is if you have the power to do that, then you probably have the power to just ignore the lawsuit in the first place. Why bother to have them killed? The amount of imbalance present in the legal system is notorious, and if you've somehow got the funds and connections to engineer this awful deed, then you've probably got 100 others ways to make your issues go away that don't put a GIANT spotlight on you.
You're right, I am mixing up some of my details.
However, if he refused to settle, would it not open Boeing up to court-ordered discovery? I feel they'd do damn near anything to avoid that possibility.
That...and people get killed for grudges all the time. It's entirely possible something got personal.
Sure, but the discovery has to pertain to the case, and the question of the matter is whether or not Boeing retaliated, not what nefarious things they do on their planes, and Boeing can also request the judge seal pieces of evidence from public view, a request which would most likely be granted in this case.
And that's why I'm highly skeptical it was murder. This is extremely flimsy motivation. The C-suite of Boeing got together, and one dude was like "Man I really hate this guy from 2019, fuck giving him settlement money, let's just murder him" and the rest of them just said "cool, make sure to expensive by the end of the month"? This is highly stupid strategically.
Is a rogue Boeing executive? Who feels that personally maligned? It wouldn't even be Boeing in that case, anyway.
Like it's not an easy, emotionally or logistically, to put a hit on someone, especially if you're not a sovereign nation.
Yeah, and telling your family and friends "If something happens to me, it wasn't suicide." sounds like a joke statement. Suicide is not typically planned. Suicide is typically a spur of the moment decision that can be avoided with a simple distraction. That's why the suicide hotline saves lives. Getting someone to stop for a second can get them past their suicidal thoughts and prevent tragedies.
Maybe he was just nervous and made an impulsive decision. I understand the desire for family and friends to not want to accept a loved one killed themselves, but we are random people on the internet. We have the privilege of not getting emotional about this.
It's not necessarily a joke, activists do say this quite a bit, it comes from a place of some paranoia mixed with genuine concern about their interactions with law enforcement.
However you're right that it's possible that despite that intent in the past, he did make a different choice in that moment.
I really want you to find me an actual source on this. In my understanding, having a concrete plan for suicide is one of the bigger warning signs and is a huge contributor to classifying someone's suicidal ideation as active rather than passive.
Having a concrete plan is absolutely a risk factor, and most folks give warning signs in the week before an attempt even if unplanned. But planned vs impulsive suicide attempts are something that sometimes gets separated in the literature. I'm on a guest WiFi and already getting Google giving me the hotline number so I can do a bit more digging later.
Impulsive attempts seem more common overall with a brief glance at the numbers but even those can contain a "if I were ever to do it, I'd do it like this" sort of plan especially for people who are chronically suicidal.
(988 for Americans seeking help... In case anyone needs it. )
Yeah that "if I were to do it, it'd be like this" type of plan was what came to mind -- when my depression was worse this was what therapists seemed to probe for (luckily I never got there).
Yeah I don't have the stats, that isn't a number that I have in my suicide prevention training. Which is a thing I do a lot and now I'm considering adding that.
I'd say that's among the least likely possibilities. This is Boeing though, they're not just an ancient behemoth in aerospace, they're also a defense contractor. The number of direct and indirect stakeholders are near endless.
There are plenty of people in the military industrial complex that wouldn't have a problem with causing a murder to be carried out. And so much potentially damaging information to want to stop from coming out.
That doesn't mean he was murdered of course, just that the possibility isn't a stretch.
It certainly doesn't have to be a room full of mustache stroking big wigs. It's kind of dismissive to paint it as in if it must have been a group of nodding C-suite executives smoking cigars and drinking whiskey or whatever. If it was a hired hit, Occam's razor points towards someone with ties to Boeing having made a decision (a big shareholder, a really passionate employee, a state representative who has received many generous donations - any number of possible scenarios), not that it was a coordinated or well thought out effort.
It's not the mustache stroking part, it's that I think it's highly unlikely it was any group of people. Because the decision makes no sense. The compensation lawsuit was of little threat to Boeing. This puts a way larger magnifying glass than a retaliation case every would for a whisteblower most people forgot about by now.
So then it was a rogue, hot-headed personal decision by someone that may be associated with Boeing. It can't have been a fully rational actor. At that point, I wouldn't call it "Boeing kills whistleblower" even if that was the case, but regardless I find that unlikely. Who exactly would be so invested? Why would they have the resources to get an assassin? Why would they murder him now, and not in the 4 prior years?
There's a reason that whenever someone thinks they're talking to a hitman it's usually the FBI (or occasionally a guy in prison with them who immediately goes to the COs)
Whistleblowing to the media and testifying under oath are two very different things. In these legal matters, nothing has been said until it's been said under oath.
He whistleblew to the FAA, who then actually did an inspection and found the mistakes in sampled planes. Presumably the FAA then made Boeing fix the issues, not that it evidently prevented more serious issues from emerging.
He wouldn't even be testifying about what he whistleblew, but that Boeing discriminated against him illegally in a retaliatory manner after he notified the FAA.
He wouldn't have commit suicide specifically to hurt Boeing. He would have done it for other reasons. If he blamed Boeing for the circumstances that made him feel that he needed to take his own life though, then he might have seen staging or as a conspiracy as a form of payback.
Thanks for sharing this. I went to check out what Reddit had to say about this and the top 50 commenters were totally certain that Boeing had this guy killed.
Possible? Sure. But there are a lot of other possibilities, some seeming more likely than others.
He could have been blacklisted from the industry and fallen into depression from all the stress. Perhaps he just killed himself with no real intentions toward Boeing. Perhaps he wanted to hurt Boeing as much as possible - many people have shot up entire office buildings and committed suicide over far pettier workplace slights. Perhaps he was murdered by Boeing. Or perhaps someone else close to him saw an opportunity to kill him knowing everyone would blame Boeing.
To be honest, my money is on regular old suicide. Only because the least complicated answer is usually correct. But hey, anyone who has seen a great true crime documentary knows that crazier things have happened than hired hits.
On that note, possibly the only reason I’m willing to believe this was a hired hit is because of the recent eBay stalking scandal. Getting internally labeled as trolls got the victims death threats, public humiliation, (planned) property damage and apparently a shipment of spiders. Which is so far beyond the line even if they were trolls that it needs no explanation.
My point being, if people like that are in charge of Boeing, and actual monetary damages and criminal investigations are involved, I could see them considering a hired hit.
I look forward to finding out just how stupid Boeing is. I was operating under the assumption that they behaved like an evil multinational and harassed the whistleblower to suicide - if it comes out that they're genuinely stupid enough to have a whistleblower killed while the eyes of the entire world are upon them then I'm going to be impressed by the new paths of stupidity being forged.
Of course, I will also be incredibly insufferably smug to all of the 'nothing ever happens' liberals in my life, but that's just stopping to sniff the roses.
There's definitely a lot we don't know yet, but I must say this is a very strange death. But these are still early days, we don't have an autopsy report, we don't have police findings, and we don't have other pieces of evidence such as whether he flew out to his depositions with a firearm. It's definitely captured my attention, however, and I'm curious to find out what happened.
Same