Gross. I wish somebody would patent a bunch of this invasive adtech nonsense just to stop anyone from ever using it. Altruistic patent trolling, or something.
Gross.
I wish somebody would patent a bunch of this invasive adtech nonsense just to stop anyone from ever using it. Altruistic patent trolling, or something.
It's always an interesting experience to read about an American company doing or planning to do something really disgusting only to lean back and think "well, not here in the EU they won't." It's...
It's always an interesting experience to read about an American company doing or planning to do something really disgusting only to lean back and think "well, not here in the EU they won't."
It's a strange feeling of satisfaction, even if I definitely feel bad for the Americans that simply don't have the legal framework established that downright prevents such awful business practices.
There is a lot I dislike about the EU, but the way they've at least put some leash on these tech atrocities is not one of them. If the US's government was the only one standing up to them, there...
There is a lot I dislike about the EU, but the way they've at least put some leash on these tech atrocities is not one of them. If the US's government was the only one standing up to them, there wouldn't be. And I don't think I'd like to live in such a world. Our attention span is already being auctioned in every direction even with the many regulations of the EU.
The US govt is very weak on tech. Also their lawmakers have zero idea on what is actually going on, mostly due to background, age and lack of general interest in tech. The EU can be a bit slow...
The US govt is very weak on tech. Also their lawmakers have zero idea on what is actually going on, mostly due to background, age and lack of general interest in tech.
The EU can be a bit slow sometimes, but they at least seem to know what’s going on.
I was interested in buying an electric car and I thought the Bolt would be pretty good since it isn't huge and heavy. Then they stopped making them, but they supposedly will return with one next...
I was interested in buying an electric car and I thought the Bolt would be pretty good since it isn't huge and heavy. Then they stopped making them, but they supposedly will return with one next year that is "better". I heard GM is going to start having it's own navigation system instead of letting you use your phone. That's redundant for me since I already have a phone and I don't want another monthly charge for something which will almost certainly be a worse design than google or apple maps. So GM is off my list. Just the threat of Ford putting advertising of any kind in a car takes that company off my list too.
I'm only the millionth person who would like there to be small simple electric cars sold for a reasonable price in the US, and with no spyware or subscription-based nonsense added.
While I'm dreaming, I'd also like to buy a new car without haggling, but services like Costco, AAA, or Sam's club will get you "deals" that are below $600 below MSRP but then the dealer adds on worthless things like $800 GPS and $800 paint coatings.
Every car is terrible for privacy. I actually sort of miss car satnav systems. Sure, they were always out of date and had absurdly expensive updates, but they were much better at actually figuring...
I actually sort of miss car satnav systems. Sure, they were always out of date and had absurdly expensive updates, but they were much better at actually figuring out where you are and could give you better directions. It turns out antennas work a lot better when they can have more physical volume than a postage stamp and can be outside of the metal cage that makes up the car's body.
Android auto and CarPlay have the ability to use the GPS data from the car instead of their own. That should address your issue. Also my experience has been that phones are much better than car...
Android auto and CarPlay have the ability to use the GPS data from the car instead of their own. That should address your issue.
Also my experience has been that phones are much better than car GPS for location accuracy since about 2018.
Why not just get a leaf or something? Honestly if you’re getting a new car there’s not much haggling you can do now. Gone are the days where you could knock off a lot. It’s MSRP or the highway....
I'm only the millionth person who would like there to be small simple electric cars sold for a reasonable price in the US, and with no spyware or subscription-based nonsense added.
Why not just get a leaf or something?
While I'm dreaming, I'd also like to buy a new car without haggling,
Honestly if you’re getting a new car there’s not much haggling you can do now. Gone are the days where you could knock off a lot. It’s MSRP or the highway. You mostly get wiggle room on the financing.
The Leaf is more expensive and has less range... prices in CAD: Leaf SV 240 km $44,500 Leaf SV Plus 342 km $50,000 2023 Chevy Bolt 417 km $41,500 I'm not the person you were responding to, but...
Why not just get a leaf or something?
The Leaf is more expensive and has less range... prices in CAD:
Leaf SV 240 km $44,500
Leaf SV Plus 342 km $50,000
2023 Chevy Bolt 417 km $41,500
I'm not the person you were responding to, but personal experience... I had a 1st gen Nissan Leaf and I had it go in twice for electrical system problems: heat stopped working, other issue was some sort of charge controller so it would no longer charge or regenerative brake. Both issues were covered under warranty and apparently were from failures of different portions of the same part. Besides those issues I had a handful of more minor things fail. The one that pushed me over the edge was when the electric parking brake failed, wasn't covered under warranty, the mechanical override to take off a stuck handbrake was not even connected, and Nissan wanted $1200 just for the part which is just absurd. IIRC it was 3 years old when I sold it. The range of different issues I had with that car makes me question the entire brand paired with paying more for less.... screw that.
On these price differences you see whre you pay for the actual hardware you get and where you get subsidy by losing something of your own. Be it listening to your conversation or being unable to...
On these price differences you see whre you pay for the actual hardware you get and where you get subsidy by losing something of your own. Be it listening to your conversation or being unable to use your phone's maps or whatever. There is a reason why something is cheaper or free.
I generally believe in the whole "you get what you pay for thing" but I don't think that's whats going on here. That 2023 Bolt (still the current car) has android auto still and I highly doubt...
There is a reason why something is cheaper or free.
I generally believe in the whole "you get what you pay for thing" but I don't think that's whats going on here. That 2023 Bolt (still the current car) has android auto still and I highly doubt they are any better at the privacy stuff. In fact @Akir links an article below. Here's an excerpt:
The very worst offender is Nissan. The Japanese car manufacturer admits in their privacy policy to collecting a wide range of information, including sexual activity, health diagnosis data, and genetic data — but doesn’t specify how. They say they can share and sell consumers’ “preferences, characteristics, psychological trends, predispositions, behavior, attitudes, intelligence, abilities, and aptitudes” to data brokers, law enforcement, and other third parties.
...
I really think in this case the price discrepancy is down to the economics of how the two different companies build and price their cars.
I feel like I need to add to this. After writing the above, I thought I would have a look and see if the 2023 Bolt is even available and what dealers are advertising them at. The cheaper one I see listed in region is $43k+ BUT I was able to find a Leaf SV Plus (bigger battery) listed for just under $42k. I still wouldn't buy the Nissan after my previous experience.
Thanks for the info. I'm pretty sure no big company actually means good to us in privacy region, they all want to know as much as possible. I can totally see why you wouldn't buy Nissan. Well, I'm...
Thanks for the info. I'm pretty sure no big company actually means good to us in privacy region, they all want to know as much as possible. I can totally see why you wouldn't buy Nissan. Well, I'm sticking with my ICE as long as it drives, I guess.
You can get a really good deal leasing a new Leaf right now as well. I have a friend who's leasing one for $30 a month for three years. Obviously if you're going to own a vehicle for a while,...
You can get a really good deal leasing a new Leaf right now as well. I have a friend who's leasing one for $30 a month for three years. Obviously if you're going to own a vehicle for a while, leasing probably isn't the move. Still he's pretty thrilled with the car and the value.
I recently got a 24 Honda prologue, which is basically just a Chevy blazer EV with Honda badging. The point is that it uses Google maps and assistant and all that mess, so GM is using that...
I recently got a 24 Honda prologue, which is basically just a Chevy blazer EV with Honda badging. The point is that it uses Google maps and assistant and all that mess, so GM is using that currently.
Which after rereading your post, it doesn't use my phone, it's just android on the car
From what I understand, GM is using Android Automotive, a version of Android customized to be used in cars. The new entertainment system does not support Apple CarPlay or Android Auto which allows...
From what I understand, GM is using Android Automotive, a version of Android customized to be used in cars. The new entertainment system does not support Apple CarPlay or Android Auto which allows your phone to project it's screen onto it among other things. So the only way to use Google Maps is to pay for their internet package. Am I right?
I don’t know about GMs implementation, but here is some more general info. Android Automotive is basically an Android skin designed for cars. It’s the software that runs on the head unit at all...
I don’t know about GMs implementation, but here is some more general info.
Android Automotive is basically an Android skin designed for cars. It’s the software that runs on the head unit at all times. It’s unrelated to your phone, except that your phone might also run Android. It’s like the TVs that run Android.
Android Auto / Apple CarPlay is a way to mirror your phone screen to your cars head unit. It requires some sort of connection, either cable or wireless. Android Automotive can run Android Auto and CarPlay without any issues. It depends on if the manufacturer supports it.
If GMs Android Automotive doesn’t support CarPlay or Android auto, it’s because GM decided they didn’t want to support it. It is absolutely possible to support both using the software they use.
Related reading: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-car-brand-reviewed-by-mozilla-including-ford-volkswagen-and-toyota-flunks-privacy-test/ It’s frustrating...
It’s frustrating that even your personal vehicle is invading your privacy these days. Tracking down the privacy policy for these things is damn near impossible too. I hope this practice gets strongly regulated in the US soon.
There's a reason it's so prolific in the US, and much less so in the EU and UK. We care about data protection at a political level. In the US, the politicians like the money back-handed to them by...
There's a reason it's so prolific in the US, and much less so in the EU and UK.
We care about data protection at a political level. In the US, the politicians like the money back-handed to them by mega corps to ignore the issue.
This is a bit silly but I'm going to link to my own comment that I just made a few minutes ago. I work in data collection and monetization, and it makes me hyper aware of 1) how much is collected...
This is a bit silly but I'm going to link to my own comment that I just made a few minutes ago. I work in data collection and monetization, and it makes me hyper aware of 1) how much is collected and 2) how poorly it is protected. I may need to start carrying a small Faraday cage to put over the antenna of any rental cars I get, or find the proper fuses to pull to disable the modem, cameras, and microphones.
My insurance company keeps emailing me offers for free smart devices that I can plug into my car and even the wall outlets at my house for monitoring (or something). Yeah, not a fucking chance.
I clicked on the wrong app when I was trying to get the state farm app for my insurance. It was the 'safe driving' thing. I went a little into it, but decided against it. Maybe if they gave me an...
I clicked on the wrong app when I was trying to get the state farm app for my insurance. It was the 'safe driving' thing. I went a little into it, but decided against it. Maybe if they gave me an 80% discount...Maybe.
That's the funny thing. They don't even offer a discount. If a company wants to collect my data to use for their own purposes or sell, I better be getting a huge discount. I think you're right -...
That's the funny thing. They don't even offer a discount. If a company wants to collect my data to use for their own purposes or sell, I better be getting a huge discount. I think you're right - 80% seems about the correct level of discount that it would take to get me to use one of their OBDII sensors or something.
If you read the patent, it's a lot more specific than that. It goes into the specific algorithms and statistical techniques they'd use to do the advertising.
If you read the patent, it's a lot more specific than that. It goes into the specific algorithms and statistical techniques they'd use to do the advertising.
If you are familiar with the adtech industry, you’ll recognize these formulae as not novel. The whole patent is “standard contextual advertising in a car”
If you are familiar with the adtech industry, you’ll recognize these formulae as not novel. The whole patent is “standard contextual advertising in a car”
Gross.
I wish somebody would patent a bunch of this invasive adtech nonsense just to stop anyone from ever using it. Altruistic patent trolling, or something.
It's always an interesting experience to read about an American company doing or planning to do something really disgusting only to lean back and think "well, not here in the EU they won't."
It's a strange feeling of satisfaction, even if I definitely feel bad for the Americans that simply don't have the legal framework established that downright prevents such awful business practices.
There is a lot I dislike about the EU, but the way they've at least put some leash on these tech atrocities is not one of them. If the US's government was the only one standing up to them, there wouldn't be. And I don't think I'd like to live in such a world. Our attention span is already being auctioned in every direction even with the many regulations of the EU.
The US govt is very weak on tech. Also their lawmakers have zero idea on what is actually going on, mostly due to background, age and lack of general interest in tech.
The EU can be a bit slow sometimes, but they at least seem to know what’s going on.
I was interested in buying an electric car and I thought the Bolt would be pretty good since it isn't huge and heavy. Then they stopped making them, but they supposedly will return with one next year that is "better". I heard GM is going to start having it's own navigation system instead of letting you use your phone. That's redundant for me since I already have a phone and I don't want another monthly charge for something which will almost certainly be a worse design than google or apple maps. So GM is off my list. Just the threat of Ford putting advertising of any kind in a car takes that company off my list too.
I'm only the millionth person who would like there to be small simple electric cars sold for a reasonable price in the US, and with no spyware or subscription-based nonsense added.
While I'm dreaming, I'd also like to buy a new car without haggling, but services like Costco, AAA, or Sam's club will get you "deals" that are below $600 below MSRP but then the dealer adds on worthless things like $800 GPS and $800 paint coatings.
Golf carts. I've seen them embraced quite heavily in my area.
You can't take those on a road with a speed limit over 20 where I live. That essentially leaves me trapped on my street.
Every car is terrible for privacy.
I actually sort of miss car satnav systems. Sure, they were always out of date and had absurdly expensive updates, but they were much better at actually figuring out where you are and could give you better directions. It turns out antennas work a lot better when they can have more physical volume than a postage stamp and can be outside of the metal cage that makes up the car's body.
Android auto and CarPlay have the ability to use the GPS data from the car instead of their own. That should address your issue.
Also my experience has been that phones are much better than car GPS for location accuracy since about 2018.
Why not just get a leaf or something?
Honestly if you’re getting a new car there’s not much haggling you can do now. Gone are the days where you could knock off a lot. It’s MSRP or the highway. You mostly get wiggle room on the financing.
The Leaf is more expensive and has less range... prices in CAD:
Leaf SV 240 km $44,500
Leaf SV Plus 342 km $50,000
2023 Chevy Bolt 417 km $41,500
I'm not the person you were responding to, but personal experience... I had a 1st gen Nissan Leaf and I had it go in twice for electrical system problems: heat stopped working, other issue was some sort of charge controller so it would no longer charge or regenerative brake. Both issues were covered under warranty and apparently were from failures of different portions of the same part. Besides those issues I had a handful of more minor things fail. The one that pushed me over the edge was when the electric parking brake failed, wasn't covered under warranty, the mechanical override to take off a stuck handbrake was not even connected, and Nissan wanted $1200 just for the part which is just absurd. IIRC it was 3 years old when I sold it. The range of different issues I had with that car makes me question the entire brand paired with paying more for less.... screw that.
On these price differences you see whre you pay for the actual hardware you get and where you get subsidy by losing something of your own. Be it listening to your conversation or being unable to use your phone's maps or whatever. There is a reason why something is cheaper or free.
I generally believe in the whole "you get what you pay for thing" but I don't think that's whats going on here. That 2023 Bolt (still the current car) has android auto still and I highly doubt they are any better at the privacy stuff. In fact @Akir links an article below. Here's an excerpt:
...
I really think in this case the price discrepancy is down to the economics of how the two different companies build and price their cars.
I feel like I need to add to this. After writing the above, I thought I would have a look and see if the 2023 Bolt is even available and what dealers are advertising them at. The cheaper one I see listed in region is $43k+ BUT I was able to find a Leaf SV Plus (bigger battery) listed for just under $42k. I still wouldn't buy the Nissan after my previous experience.
Thanks for the info. I'm pretty sure no big company actually means good to us in privacy region, they all want to know as much as possible. I can totally see why you wouldn't buy Nissan. Well, I'm sticking with my ICE as long as it drives, I guess.
You can get a really good deal leasing a new Leaf right now as well. I have a friend who's leasing one for $30 a month for three years. Obviously if you're going to own a vehicle for a while, leasing probably isn't the move. Still he's pretty thrilled with the car and the value.
$30 a month? Did you miss a zero there, because that's basically free as far as cars go.
No I did not. Which was me wondering if they're having a hard time moving the leaf and are trying to clear inventory.
I recently got a 24 Honda prologue, which is basically just a Chevy blazer EV with Honda badging. The point is that it uses Google maps and assistant and all that mess, so GM is using that currently.
Which after rereading your post, it doesn't use my phone, it's just android on the car
From what I understand, GM is using Android Automotive, a version of Android customized to be used in cars. The new entertainment system does not support Apple CarPlay or Android Auto which allows your phone to project it's screen onto it among other things. So the only way to use Google Maps is to pay for their internet package. Am I right?
AA and car play are both options on it, I don't connect mine though
I don’t know about GMs implementation, but here is some more general info.
Android Automotive is basically an Android skin designed for cars. It’s the software that runs on the head unit at all times. It’s unrelated to your phone, except that your phone might also run Android. It’s like the TVs that run Android.
Android Auto / Apple CarPlay is a way to mirror your phone screen to your cars head unit. It requires some sort of connection, either cable or wireless. Android Automotive can run Android Auto and CarPlay without any issues. It depends on if the manufacturer supports it.
If GMs Android Automotive doesn’t support CarPlay or Android auto, it’s because GM decided they didn’t want to support it. It is absolutely possible to support both using the software they use.
Related reading: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-car-brand-reviewed-by-mozilla-including-ford-volkswagen-and-toyota-flunks-privacy-test/
It’s frustrating that even your personal vehicle is invading your privacy these days. Tracking down the privacy policy for these things is damn near impossible too. I hope this practice gets strongly regulated in the US soon.
There's a reason it's so prolific in the US, and much less so in the EU and UK.
We care about data protection at a political level. In the US, the politicians like the money back-handed to them by mega corps to ignore the issue.
This is a bit silly but I'm going to link to my own comment that I just made a few minutes ago. I work in data collection and monetization, and it makes me hyper aware of 1) how much is collected and 2) how poorly it is protected. I may need to start carrying a small Faraday cage to put over the antenna of any rental cars I get, or find the proper fuses to pull to disable the modem, cameras, and microphones.
My insurance company keeps emailing me offers for free smart devices that I can plug into my car and even the wall outlets at my house for monitoring (or something). Yeah, not a fucking chance.
I clicked on the wrong app when I was trying to get the state farm app for my insurance. It was the 'safe driving' thing. I went a little into it, but decided against it. Maybe if they gave me an 80% discount...Maybe.
That's the funny thing. They don't even offer a discount. If a company wants to collect my data to use for their own purposes or sell, I better be getting a huge discount. I think you're right - 80% seems about the correct level of discount that it would take to get me to use one of their OBDII sensors or something.
It bothers me that this is even a patentable concept. It’s just so trivial. How can they say they have “invented” anything here?
If you read the patent, it's a lot more specific than that. It goes into the specific algorithms and statistical techniques they'd use to do the advertising.
If you are familiar with the adtech industry, you’ll recognize these formulae as not novel. The whole patent is “standard contextual advertising in a car”
I'm very happy with my '99 Ford Ranger. I will repair it until I can't safely drive, or the heat death of the universe. Which ever comes first.