Car maintenance/replacement advice
I have a 2014 CRV, it loses oil horribly and I'm going to have to check it a couple times a week or risk my engine. The mechanic was hesitant to even help me limp it along and said basically there's no fix besides replacing the engine. He put 3 quarts in that day. I didn't have a warning it was low other than the loud start.
I'm trying to decide if it's worth continuing maintenance on this car or worth trading in now while the engine is still kicking (and switching to an electric used car probably) or nursing this along for another year or so. We have a car loan on a wheelchair van we're trying to refinance which means I'll be looking at cars that are about equivalent in value to the CRV.
Thoughts? Advice? Besides keeping oil in my car because I didn't know it was this bad. Ó╭╮Ò
How is it losing oil?
Fantastic question, it goes in the engine and then is no longer in it later. It is not on the ground under the car so I assume it's being burned. This has gotten worse over the time I've owned the car (about 7 years now) and I've been told repeatedly it's an issue with CRV engines from that year. (I understand very little about cars. )
From a quick look-up, if there isn’t an oil leak onto the ground, two common causes are the PCV valve being stuck open, or the piston ring is worn. The former is relatively easy for a mechanic to fix, the latter requires taking the engine apart.
Not that I've noticed but I'll look, I havent caught the smell of oil. But I tend to park in a garage or lot during the day and my driveway at night/weekends. No oil spots I've seen, but the garage isn't always clean floor.
It never hurts to check with other mechanics. Just like doctors, it can be worth it to get a second opinion.
Fair point
Park over a clean piece of cardboard for a night. It will clearly show stains if you are leaking oil.
If it has never been done before, then try to find someone to adjust the valve clearance on your Honda. It is supposed to be adjusted at a regular interval, but most mechanics will not do it "unless there is a reason to". One of the reasons to do it is burning oil.
You can also stand behind the car while it's in park and have someone rev the engine. If it is burning a lot of oil you will notice a whitish blue smoke from the exhaust.
There's no obvious leak or odor. I'm taking it to a second mechanic this week, but we're leaning hard at trading it in, if only because an expensive repair is harder to finance than a trade in/used car purchase and I'm genuinely afraid I've screwed up the engine badly. But we'll see what mechanic 2 says.
Okay. Has the mechanic actually given you a diagnosis?
That this is an engine issue, the engine is very dirty and he recommended looking for a new car. That it's essentially not repairable without replacing the engine. This is definitely a case of me not understanding cars in detail enough. But I was driving it 3 quarts low unawares so this is very a "me" fucking the car up.
I do trust this mechanic, he's gone out of his way to not overcharge me but I don't understand things more now.
My extremely cynical POV is that a repair isn’t worth his time. Fixing the PCV valve is likely relatively easy, but replacing the piston rings would entail disassembling and reassembling the engine. But, if it’s the latter, it’s likely not worth your time/money either.
Appreciate it, that is where I'm trying to figure out if this is the line. Sigh right before Christmas is not when I want to do this but if it's what I need it is what I need.
I think Ill get a second opinion either way but yeah.
It may be something as "simple" as the valve clearance needing to be adjusted.
If your mechanic hasn’t explained to you exactly whats happening, find another mechanic.
Get multiple opinions anyway. Fixing a head gasket is sometimes worth it if thats what it is.
Years matter less than mileage for most issues. Whether to replace or limp depends on how much oil it is losing. Have you been changing oil every 5k (regular oil) to 10k (synthetic)? Does it otherwise run fine? Is there smoke coming out the back? Does the stereo sound ok and are the seats comfy?
For the moment, i think there are still ev tax incentives so worth looking at.
Also corollas and civics are extremely well built and fuel efficient. I bet you could get a deal on at 100k miles or so.
I'm sitting at 116k miles on the crv,
I've been changing about every 3k with full synthetic due to the oil loss. Otherwise it runs fine I think. I've definitely just let her get low too often, and it's caused me to replace the timing chain once and now the problem is repeating, because the oil is dropping low again.
You're changing the oil every 3k miles and having to add more oil in between changes or noticing that it's low when you go to change it at the 3k mile interval?
I'm just at about 3k/3 months now and it was 3 quarts low. So yeah. It's bad. Mechanic told me to check it weekly.
How long has this been going on (the it being low when you go to get an oil change)?
Over a year, I had the timing chain replaced in Jan-Feb, and it was doing this then so maybe closer to two years overall, just maybe not quite so bad. I wouldn't notice until the low engine light came on/ignored the sound too long. Now the sound has come back, and while I did put some oil in at some point, I honestly hit a bad "ignore it" overwhelmed with life stage in the middle. No warning light came on this time yet, despite how low it was. (He also said the engine was really dirty, referring to the oil in the engine.
I do not agree with their opinion on this as I see it as nothing more than dodging warranty claims, but 1qt per 1k miles is, by most manufacturer's claims, an "acceptable" amount of oil loss. So if you don't mind throwing in a $5 quart of oil every few fill ups, then it'll probably keep on ticking for awhile that way.
That said, as one of the automotive/mechanically minded folks here, that amount of oil burning is unacceptable to me; with a caveat.
The caveat is that everyone's financial situation is different and $5 a month for the foreseeable future vs $4-6k engine rebuild right now is two very different things to different people.
In my opinion you have a stuck piston ring that is allowing too much blow-by and burning oil. There are some very powerful products that could unstick the piston ring, but they aren't guaranteed to work, they require some careful considerations to their use during and after, and have the possibility of making other issues appear. I can expand on this if you're interested.
I did have a good experience with the mechanic previously but as I've said I know pretty little about cars. My step kid is better at them, but not worked on Hondas and leans towards trade it in.
If it helps, after the 3qt fill up the next start was loud, but then they quieted and then today it was just a little louder. I'll check the oil in the AM and see if it's already lost a bunch since Friday.
I'm open to learning about the piston situation and options if you dont mind
Simply put, piston rings are springs that are held by the piston in grooves and push outward toward the walls of the cylinder to perform various tasks like sealing the combustion chamber, regulating oil use, etc. For lack of a better term "gunk" can get in the grooves of the piston, making the piston ring stick and not seal properly.
Very strong products like BG EPR - https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/engine/bg-epr-engine-performance-restoration/ - can loosen this "gunk" and unstick the piston rings. It's not a guarantee, but at about $20 for a can of it, it could be worth a shot.
The warning is this: It takes no prisoners. It will loosen any gunk it comes across, sometimes gunk/sludge is the only thing keeping a seal or gasket from leaking, so it can open up more leaks. Instructions need to be followed to the letter. This is usually stuff used by people that do their own maintenance, I take it from your replies here that you do not. So in your case you'd drive to your mechanic or oil change place of choice, let the car cool down, put it in the oil, warm the car back up, run it for 10 minutes at 1,200rpm, then immediately change the oil and filter. I would also only drive for another 500 miles and then change the oil again. If there is significant gunk/sludge in your engine then there is the chance that it will dislodge too much, won't be fully removed with the oil changes, and clog the oil pickup or somewhere else in the engine and cause more issues.
Gotcha, thanks for the info
I'm no mechanic, but that sounds reasonable. I do have a little experience with something like this. A long time ago when I was in college, I had a car that went through oil. I was living a few hours from home and driving back and forth on weekends. The "check engine" light would come on sometimes.
Since my dad was frugal and handy with cars, he installed an oil pressure gauge and I kept a case of oil in the back. If the oil pressure went too low while driving home, I put more in. The "check engine" light should go on if the oil pressure gets too low, but it goes on for a lot of things, and the pressure gauge was an actual dial so I could monitor it better while driving. I'm not sure it was really necessary, but it was to try to figure out what was going on, and so I could catch a low oil situation before the light went on.
You have a different car and perhaps a different problem, but checking the oil regularly and putting more in if necessary seems like a reasonable way to stretch it out if you don't want to spend money on cars right away.
(Also, I'm not sure synthetic oil makes sense in your situation? My understanding is that the advantage of synthetic oil is that it will last longer and you can go longer between oil changes. If your car is using up the oil somehow and you're also getting it changed every 3k miles, it seems like it's not going to last very long anyway and cheaper oil will do.)
The car wants synthetic by default.
I have an oil sensor, it does eventually go off, but it didn't with 3qt low.
Are you sure it's a low oil level sensor and not a low oil pressure sensor? Only some cars have the former but basically everything has the latter (and looking at one owners manual for a 2014 CRV I only see mention of a low oil pressure warning).
The practical difference between the two is that with a low oil level warning you can generally assume you're safe to drive to somewhere to get the oil topped up, but if you see a low oil pressure warning you need to pull over immediately and turn the car off before doing anything else - if you're lucky you can get the engine stopped fast enough to avoid major damage.
No I'm not sure in the slightest and that's probably why I probably have engine damage.
That’s not a lotta miles on a Honda. Something definitely ain’t right. I’d try a different mechanic for a diagnosis. The oil has to go somewhere, there should be signs on the ground or the exhaust. Do you ever smell burnt oil?
Not noticeably I don't
I did need the timing chain replaced due to previously not keeping oil in it, which seems to have resulted in the problem getting worse and worse. So this may be my fault, unfortunately
What mileage did you replace the chain? Even if you replaced it yesterday, a 115k honda should not be using so much oil that it runs so dry between changes that a component is damaged. (Which means-not your fault, unless you ignored a low oil warning light on the dash) Something is definitely wrong, and fix that and you should get another 100k from the car. Even if fixing that means a new engine, still probably the most economical choice imo.
About 10 months ago, over 100k but I couldn't tell you exactly the mileage.
Do you have any estimates on the price to replace the engine? And how many miles is on the vehicle?
A cursory glance I'm seeing crate engines for between $1000-$2000. Just spitballing labor for 8 hours at $200/hr puts that at $1600. So I dunno it sounds like on the high end, an engine replacement would be something around $4500? Replacing an engine really isn't too bad given a lift and the other stuff a reputable shop has available. So I would expect it to be less than that.
So then I guess it's opportunity cost. The used Bolt mentioned elsewhere at $14k implies that you'd save about 10 grand if you replaced the engine. You'll save on gas, but what sort of maintenance doe Bolts need? I'd look into the costs to replace a battery on a Bolt and add that onto the price difference between engine replacement and vehicle replacement.
116k miles, no estimate.
If it's more like 4k that's maybe reasonable, I've been seeing more like 6-8k. But I'll look at prices here and see.
Bolt would still have a battery warranty for... 7 more years ish.
How much oil is it burning though in a week / month? With your normal drive can you get by checking / topping off when you get gas, or is it burning it quick enough to need more every other day? I have a 2004 CRV that burns about 3/4s of a quart a month under normal driving. For that little I just keep a case of cheap, crappy synthetic oil in the car and top it off the 1st of every month. Been doing that for about 3 years without issue. If you are just looking to limp the car along for a year or so spending a hundred or two on oil might not be the worst idea.
This method is basically what he said, check it at least weekly, fill it a little over the high point spot on the dipstick. Just not sure I want to risk the engine going out and car being effectively totalled vs trading it in.
I'm not sure the warranty status on your CRV, but some brands still carry a 10 year powertrain warranty, and the engine is indeed part of the powertrain. You should at least inquire at your local Honda dealership about it. My wife has a 2016 Odyssey, and it definitely has a 10 year powertrain warranty.
Others have given some great pointers so best of luck!
If I do look for a used electric, what do I need to know? Avoid? Etc?
Older Nissan Leafs are cheap for a reason. They have air-cooled batteries with a not great battery management system. If you just need something for within 15-20 miles of home, then it might be okay, but anything more I would be looking for something else.
What’s your budget?
Ideally? The trade in for the CRV+ or - a couple of thousand. I found a used Bolt for just under 14k and that is probably top of the budget. A car payment will be very difficult for us given the existing car loan is not ideal (it's for a 2014 wheelchair van and has a horrible interest rate due to the vehicles age and the cost of a conversion on the vehicle. Refi is something we're working on. )
My commute is under 30 min, about ten miles highway and then a few miles in town each day. Not sure the nearest charger to me at work, but campus does have them.
What’s the climate like where you are? If it is San Francisco or coastal New England, that’s going to be less of an issue than North Dakota or Alabama.
Midwest, Central IL - Full range of seasons: we usually get snow and such in the winter but usually decent at plowing. If its real bad the wheelchair van is a 2014 Dodge Grand caravan so she'll get through whatever.
But also my job would let me work from home or take off if I couldn't get in.
I know range goes down when it's cold, we don't usually have a ton of below zero days but do get below freezing.
Okay. So you’ll want to get something with a decent amount of range, so you aren’t driving with no heat worried you’ll be out of charge.
For $15,000 and under, you’ll be looking at:
I deliberately excluded the Mitsubishi iMIEV and Smart ED. Their initial range was only around 60 miles, and degradation may mean the current range is closer to 45, which would go down when running heat or AC. If you can charge reliably at work, then it may not be an issue for you.
Chevy, Nissan, BMW, and Tesla will have the best service/parts availability (not sure about Hyundai).
Worth noting that the Fiat 500e is an utter piece of shit car and easily the least reliable vehicle in that list.
This is the most glowing review of a Fiat 500 I've laid eyes on.
Man, I was not expecting to see a Kameo Fatality on a Fiat on Tildes of all places.
Thanks! I appreciate it. Any major issues with any of these I should know about
I have a 2017 Hyundai Ioniq and it's an excellent car. 150 miles range in the summer, 120 in the winter. Fantastic epmg (5+ miles/kwh with a little care) and service isn't much of an issue because things don't really break. There aren't fluids to change and the brake pads are still the factory ones despite having 50k on the clock. Regenerative braking ftw!
Not as cheap as a Leaf, but much more reliable - when my hyundai says fifty miles range, it means it. My Leaf claimed 84 miles on a full charge and was more like 60 on a good day! But you could buy three Leafs of the same age for the price of the Hyundai so swings and roundabouts..
My second opinion update:
Essentially the mechanic said that a noisy engine for the 2014 CRV is "not a surprise" and it could rattle like this for another 100k miles. They of course said they don't have a crystal ball, so there's no guarantees, but there's nothing obviously wrong.
His biggest suggestion was that even if I'm not hitting the mileage to get the oil changed more often, so I'm gonna do that (more consistently) that every 3 months rather than 3k miles. Between whatever oil loss the 2014s are known for (and truly I have no idea) and it getting gas mixed with oil from short trips and such and already using 0W-20, it's just worth spending the money on the change
So we're gonna keep Eleanor a bit longer. I appreciate all the advice. And almost certainly going back to this mechanic in the future.
Putting this at the top level to elicit others opinions. Based on the very dirty engine, i’m betting blown head gasket. Additional diagnosis steps look to dirty coolant.
If you are trying to optimize on money, it’s worth getting an official diagnosis and estimate. Your experience notwithstanding, Hondas are very reliable and long lived cars. With good maintenance 250k is likely.
Know that once the leak is resolved, 7-10k is the recommended oil change interval for synthetic (which is like 2x expensive). Most all cars are synthetic now, but for general
Info purposes, once you go synthetic you can’t go back.
I'm going to take it for a second opinion, honestly I didn't ask the mechanic enough questions, but yeah.
My Civic lasted eleven years with many more miles on it. I'd love to keep the CRV going but if it's more than the car is worth, I may just not have the cash on hand to do the work. I'll have to see. Thanks though for the help