Andor discussion thread
Haven't seen a whole lot of discussion about this show on tildes. Not in weekly threads nor a main thread - so here is one!
It's a 9/10 for me.
I waited until all of season 2 was out before starting it. Realized I had forgotten almost everything since season 1 though, so rewatched that first. It turned into a binge of both seasons - I just could not stop! It has been probably 3 years since I was so glued to the screen and this engaged in a tv show (Euphoria season 1),
I will skip an analysis or further review but every character was good. Every actor delivered. Just great all around. Season 2 (9.5/10) even better than season 1 (8.5/10).
So anyways, discuss! More than happy to have my feelings about it validated lol, and also see other takes on it.
As a life-long Star Wars fan, it's the greatest TV show ever made. Right up there with the first season of Westworld.
Every actor is 10/10, the writing is phenomenal, and the world building is just a joy to see. I don't think we'll ever get anything approaching this quality in Disney's Star Wars again, and I'm just thrilled it happened at all.
(Exception: Alexander Freed's Star Wars books! If you like Andor and want more of that kind of Star Wars, Alphabet Squad and Mask of Fear are both really good and scratch a similar itch!)
I’m in mourning, I suppose. I avoided Andor because Rouge One hit me hard in the feels when it came out, and I didn’t necessarily want to care MORE. But Andor was acclaimed by basically everyone, and my family went out of town for a long weekend, so I did the whole show this past long weekend (Sat-Mon).
Whew. That was absolutely incredible. Unlike some in this post, I don’t want to watch it again. I don’t know if my heart can take it again. I’m not sure if I’ll ever watch Rogue One again, either. But man, Andor was such a good experience. I can’t think of ANY show I’ve ever watched that juggled plot lines where I was 100% in on all of them. (Okay, the weird faction thing with the youths dropped me down to maybe 75%).
Forest Whitaker should win some award for Andor. Someone else told me they weren’t sold on him in Rogue One, but really “got it” in Andor - I agree. Giving this story, and all the stories throughout the show, room to breathe was excellent.
Straight up 11/10 for me. It's a side of Star Wars we've really only seen glimpses of before, and it's just ridiculous how many complex and interesting characters it has -- even ones that have comparatively small amounts of screen time.
I think my only critique is of the early episodes in season 2, where Andor is captured -- those felt awfully close to unnecessary filler. But the highs are so absurdly high that it feels hardly worth mentioning, and I suspect I'll like those episodes more when rewatching.
I think Mon Mothma was the biggest surprise for me. I'd never have expected her to be developed into such a great character, let alone portrayed so brilliantly. I don't know if it was luck or genius that they cast Genevieve O'Reilly as Mon in Revenge of the Sith twenty years ago (for a couple of deleted scenes), but it's kind of insane how that worked out.
I also really appreciated the lack of fan-service/upstaging cameos. The show kept its focus firmly on the core characters the whole way through. It's just... so well-written. It has restraint where necessary, and shows when it doesn't need to tell.
And... man, that ending hit me unexpectedly hard in the feels.
I think the show does have one unfortunate side effect though: it makes Rogue One's flaws even more apparent. It's incredible how well the show flows into the movie's opening, but Jyn sticks out worse than ever now, and the pacing of the movie feels frenetic and rushed with a lot of unearned moments (Baze calling Jyn "little sister" after barely saying a word to her the whole movie made me laugh out loud). It also really made me wish that Cassian had given Jyn's speech to the council at the midway point instead, since I think that would have capped off his character arc beautifully. And obviously, the hints of romantic sparks between Cassian and Jyn feel really off now.
It'll probably be a long time before I watch Rogue One again, but I'm for sure going to rewatch Andor in a few months.
This worked for me because it showed how fractured those days of the rebellion were. All the factions were fighting for themselves and beyond Luthen, there was no real communication or cooperation between them.
Fast forward to Yavin and forces are beginning to merge. There are still offshoots with the Partisans, but even Luthen's prized lieutenants are leaving for Yavin. Everything he worked toward was starting to come together, finally.
Also Maya Pei's troops were extremely funny to me in how wildly out of their depths they were.
Someone already mentioned it, but if you're reading this and you're not a fan of Star Wars, the most important thing to know is that Andor is good enough on its own, no need to be a fan. There's no force magic and jedis, no need to know a lot of lore, it's basically a spy thriller.
I'm not a Star Wars fan, I pretty much only like A New Hope and Imperium Strikes Back (and even those I have not seen for at least a decade), the prequels disappointed me enough to not watch any other Star Wars since then, and I thought Andor was fantastic.
Most of all it feels like it's made by competent people who actually care about making something exceptional, so even if some aspect isn't perfect, you're more likely to forgive them. Instead of annoying fanservice the show constantly introduces new things, whether it's places, cultures, people or technologies. The actors are good, the characters are interesting, the writing is good, the set design is cool. Some things here and there feel like a bad decision or laziness, but not enough to lessen the enjoyment.
I am a big fan of Star Trek, so it painfully reminded me how nothing Trek in the last 25 years has managed to do the above.
I think Strange New Worlds is the best Star Trek from the last few decades, so check that out if you haven’t. It has more annoying fan service than you may like, but it doesn’t crap on the key themes of Star Trek while doing it.
I've seen it until about half of the second season and while I agree that it's not terrible, I still didn't really enjoy it. It feels to me like Trek cargo cult made by people who are not competent enough to create something truly interesting.
There were too many things that annoyed me. Like, Ortegas walks in a hallway and sees a guy who's obviously behaving like he's either on drugs or has a serious health issue and instead of reporting it or acting on it somehow, she says "whatever tweaks your freak", smiles asymetrically and walks away, that on its own pretty much sums up my problem with SNW. The crew being unpleasant to mildly rude to Uhura when they rely on her doing something right in a crisis on an away mission because they don't trust her to be competent instead of supporting her was also somewhat jarring and un-trekkish. Crewmembers being trapped in the cargo bay... behind a pile of rubble they could obviously easily climb over or move parts of it. Plus there are various "current day cinematography" trends that I dislike, like some of the characters dramatically whisper instead of just talking normally or raising their voice in tense situations.
Personally I think the best Trek show since the TNG era is The Orville despite the rough first season and different tone. It obviously has a lot of respect for Trek and at the same time dares to keep introducing new things. It even managed to do an episode about a (de)trans alien kid without it feeling hamfisted or too preachy, something I doubt would happen anywhere in NuTrek.
Forgive typing on phone but wanted to second the Orville. Best trek ever. Be patient with a little to much toilet humor in first few episodes but Seth finds his feet and it is absolutely best trek ever.
Agreed I also liked the Orville a lot but hated the first few episodes.
Would you recommend that show for even someone that hasn't really watched Star Trek? Only watched the Chris Pine movies.
I would.
There's plenty of references to lore from other shows in there, but imho, extremely little that requires knowledge of it. Just like you see them reference a monster and you're like "Hoo-boy, here we go" but it's clear without knowing that that really, yes, hoo-boy, here we go.
I think they do a good job of not needing really any context to get pretty much everything from the show. And it's good.
I will also say that while I really hate singing episodes, there is one - with a pretty good in-universe reason - and while it still annoys me, it was damned hilarious.
I think first season they were kind of finding their feet - not good/bad, more they tried a few different approaches. I think they found their feet, and the storytelling is great.
It might be my current favorite Star Trek series.
(Disclaimer: I mostly like Discovery as well as Picard, which I know a lot don't)
I’m right there with you on liking it all. Even mid Trek is still a great watch! I miss Lower Decks already (thankfully, the comic is good).
Ah, Lower Decks! I avoided it until the crossover episode then figured I really should check it out. So glad I did! It was delightful!
Thank you!
Yes I think so. It doesn't require that you have watched any other Star Trek before. And Since the Chris Pine movies referenced the original Star Trek series, and Strange New Worlds also references it, you will see some familiar characters and themes.
I mean I do know a ton of stuff about Star Trek anyway, just through the sheer amount of people talking about it and posting memes in whatever spaces online I've always been in. Same crowd but sometimes different media. Some deeper references I wouldn't get, but definitely I know all the main character names and enemy races/factions and such.
Thanks for the recommendation!
All of NuTrek is divisive, even though SNW is the most accepted. Personally I think the older Treks are objectively better made in many aspects (mostly writing and characters, but also themes and set designs), but it's a matter of how much you prefer the older style of cinematography and trends of that time, whether it's the 60s with The Original Series or late 80s/90s with The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine, or current day trends that are in my opinion even more strongly present in Strange New Worlds.
After I finished the second season, I immediately re-watched Rogue One, and then wrote this in the aftermath:
A few weeks later, the feeling remains.
I wish they would remake rogue one and continue with the remakes of the original trilogy. Keep up the andor momentum.
I know they won't, but I can wish it anyway :)
I was telling my wife something similar. Rogue One was my favorite SW content, by far, until I watched Andor. Andor is amazing. Going from the finale straight into Rogue One made me realize how much better Andor is than RO. I told my wife they need to redo RO to match Andor.
I'm actually glad I mistook the series for vapid "Disney Star Wars garbage" back when it premiered in 2022 and quickly dropped it; I got to experience both seasons within a month instead of a 2.5yr gap and it was all the better for it. Star Wars's heroes may have originally been modeled after the Vietcong fighting off American/British colonialism, but Gilroy's distillation of the Empire as an unabashedly fascist entity is so much more compelling (and spine-chilling as we see these echoes of history playing out, yet again, today in the real world). Nevermind the Star Wars franchise, this series is outright one of my favorite live action media of all time.
I hadn't watched Rogue One until I'd finished Andor – it's fine, I guess? But not nearly as intriguing.
I remember really liking rogue one when it came out, but while it's good, it's not nearly as good as andor. The music in particular i found disappointing lol
And after being completely sold on the character arcs in andor, rogue one was weird. Cassian felt distant and weird - because he was a new character and was played a little different than he ended up from andor.
Still good but I haven't continued into a new hope because I know I'll be disappointed now with it. Heh
Andor has ruined the rest of it for me
I have a lot of thoughts about Andor s02. Overall, I'd give it an 8.5/10, but man do I have a lot thoughts about it.
The show doesn't quite feel rushed to me, but I kept thinking I'd like a bit more of pretty much everything. A bit more in each arc, a bit more between the characters, just a bit more. The cast are all phenomenal. Mon Mothma and Kleya become such nuanced and interesting characters from being mostly side characters in s01. The lack of any blood/gore feels weird for such a grim show. A lot of the sets have less of a sense of place then s01 to me; all the main arcs in s01 feel meaningfully connected to a place, but I didn't feel the same here.
A lot of spoiler stuff in no particular order!
So much time was wasted on truly nothing.
Man, its weird to have a literally bloodless massacre scene.
It just feels so cartoony next to the mundane brutality of the show.
The whole objective truth is the most important thing feels very vapid liberal to me.
But again that's kinda what Mon Mothma is, especially up to that point in the show.
I fucking adore the prison arc of S01 and S02 just doesn't have anything that hits quite like it.
I appreciate such decisions, personally, as I am overly-stupidly empathetic, and I can't handle much of either of those.
Rogue One and Andor have been at the top of my list of favorite SW properties for a simple reason: no Jedi or Skywalkers (aside from a few epic minutes of Vader). And also how it 'seemlessly' transitions to ep3. Two, two simple reasons.
The galaxy should be so much more interesting and diverse than just the space wizards. This is why Mandalorian fell short for me, and it started as soon as we met Baby Yoda with his "Force is instinctual rather than trained" abilities. Does that species get a buff in their Force skills or something?
Yes! Rogue One was my favourite movie or show, above even ESB. Now it is easily and by far Andor. The grounded approach has been sorely missing from all (?) the shows and movies. This feels like proper sci-fi and not space opera. Foundation is my comparison to Andor I think - not in quality but in tone and feel. And it really is a great vibe they create.
I really hope this is the tone and scale for Star Wars going forward. Moving away from the Jedi completely is needed for a while. I've said it before, but it really looks like Filoni and Favreau are now holding Star Wars back, despite their efforts to bring it to the small screen.
I really haven't liked what Favreau has been doing. It seems to be a miracle to me that this show was made in this way. It just seems to Marvel-ify everything he touches. I skimmed something about Katherine Kennedy apparently having a major hand in Andor though, letting the creator do what he wanted more or less. So big kudos to her for that (she gets too much unjustified hate in certain fan circles).
Anyways. I also have high hopes that this tone will be allowed to go forwards. Star Wars has always been kid/family-friendly though, so even if we get more like this, I'd assume the franchise is mostly going to stay with its tone as been.
The perception that Fav and Fil have put out about Kennedy is that she's responsible for ruining Star Wars etc... then we get a top talent like Gilroy who says she's the best and really fought for and defended / protected the project of Andor -- seems like someone isn't being completely honest.
I hate Fav's work across the board. Chef is a piece of shit movie anyway... but within Marvel and all, his stuff is always so shallow; like he doesn't understand how to make something for kids that adults can enjoy (or v/v)
I've got my fingers crossed. Outside of Rogue One, I hate all of the new Star Wars movies and book-wise I'm all Legends.
I loved this show. So unbelievably much. I finished it last week and honestly got the itch to restart it right away.
The only other time I've felt that was with watching The Americans.
I posted this in another thread, so I'll paste it here - originally writte on 15 May:
Fnished Andor yesterday. The music from the end of the last episode has been absolutely stuck in my head, and I've listened to it twice on Youtube. It was an utterly fantastic series.
I've been somewhat marginal on the Star Wars stuff I watched. I grew up with the original trilogy. I nearly walked out of the first prequel and have to this day never see the second and third.
I personally thought eps7-9 were pretty good. I especially felt after ep 7 that it was good to have Star Wars back. Although I could tell you very little about all three. But they were decent, I thought.
I vaguely remember Rogue One and thought it was pretty decent.
I'm not caught up on Mandalorian. I'd been trying to catch up, but after seeing Andor Season 1, I began to be less satisfied with some of the large cracks in Mandalorian. I never did get back to Ahsoka, though it seemed pretty decent.
But everything about Andor was stunning. Both seasons. I loved the cinematography, the music, casting, writing, pacing, lighting - everything. Though the music put it over the absolute top.
In fact, when I finished season 2, I had the idea of going straight into Rogue One - this'll be awesome!
The music felt very traditonal Star Wars, but I found it jarring and wrong. I paused the movie and I'll pick it back up today or tomorrow, but I found myself highly disappointed.
Also, as I don't remember the movie well.... Seeing Cassian begn introduced as Rebel Intelligence Officer was a bit jarring as well. It was very very clear tht this was written before Andor. lol. And I almost felt he was a stranger on the screen. Which I suppose I should have expected, but I sure didn't.
I like the Star Wars universe. But beyond all else: I hope we get more projects like Andor. I don't care in what universe they are set. I mean, screw it, forget Rogue One, let's keep on with Andor's story of the rebellion. Or even not just that storyline, but let's have continuity with that version of the universe. Retire the existing Star Wars and keep going with this, please. lol
So anyway. As one might have surmised: I highly highly recommend this series if you haven't. And even if you're not into Star Wars. This series was absolutely awesome.
I really loved season 1. Not totally sure why, but I lost interest in season 2 after 3 or 4 episodes. I kept asking myself why I should care about the stakes presented. Why care about Andor being stuck on that planet with sparring factions of abandoned people? Why care about the impending destruction of a silk planet? Why should I care about those aristocrats and their marital/mid-life crisis issues?
For me it all felt very disconnected. For a second season of a show it's risky to do a large time jump. You're essentially throwing away all of your momentum. It's been 2.5 years since the original release. For those of you that just started watching now I can see it being much easier to binge the whole thing. For me I think it's been too long.
I will acknowledge the production quality and acting are excellent. Disney would do well to repeat what worked with Andor for all of their Star Wars productions.
For what it's worth, all of the seemingly disconnected stuff starts to weave together very nicely as the season progresses. The first few arcs in the season are mostly about setting the scene for the rest of the season.
Spoiler-filled replies on what I took away from the stuff you highlighted
I care about the sparring factions because they highlight the dangers of in-fighting among those with a shared cause. Also some light world building for Yavin IV. That being said, that episode was a bore.I care about the the silk planet because it gives us a first-hand look at the oppression of the Empire. And it's a terrifying look at psyops and propaganda in general. Also what happens on Ghorman is the catalyst for the unification of most of the independent rebel cells as the Rebel Alliance.
The Mon Mothma stuff is a little dry at times, but her whole arc is a very good contrast to Andor's. While he's out there literally risking his life, killing people, blowing shit up, etc. she's relatively safe at home writing speeches and moving her money around. And eventually those two "sides" of the rebellion need to come together to win the day.
I might give it a second shot as I have a long plane trip to Europe tomorrow.
@all Hit me up if you’re in Western Europe and want an impromptu Tildes meetup.
One criticism I have for the second season is sometimes it's really bad at telegraphing how much time passes between episodes.
It's worth noting that a whole year or more lapses between a few of the episodes, but it does all build to something by the end.
I do believe that's the "BBY" number they show at the beginning of the sets of episodes, although it's not really very strongly explained.
For anyone unaware, "BBY" means "Before Battle of Yavin", which is the climax of A New Hope where they blow up the Death Star. There's also ABY for "After Battle of Yavin". A New Hope is the established "year zero" for Star Wars and BBY/ABY shows up all over the wiki.
I only saw it before the last arc, and maybe the first arc, but I missed it before the Ghorman arc. It could've been there and I just didn't see it though.
Season 2 is complete now? Awesome! I don't have time to rewatch season 1; can someone please recommend a good, relevant season 1 recap video on YouTube?
I like Man of Recaps a lot. Season 1 recap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYhuScKL8wI
I really recommend rewatching season 1 though. Made season 2 so much better for me as it completely reimmersed me into the world.
You might be into these. I haven't seen either yet, but I will in the near future:
For Episode 2, don't read the changes, since it'll likely spoil the season.this is all season one! even better* edit: I got these and will likely post in the weekly thread after I watch
Andor is by far my favorite piece of Star Wars visual media. I haven't read any books so I'll refrain from commenting on them. As cool as all the Force, Jedi, Sith stuff are in the Star Wars universe, I really love the political aspect that Andor focuses on. It feels like a behind the scenes look behind the events that led to the conflicts you hear about in the original movies.
[with spoilers] My thoughts on Season 2 compared to Season 1
The first season is a 10/10 for me. While it has a slow start, it quickly picks up and keeps you engaged until the very end. The pacing is just perfect. Season 2 however, even though it's still amazing to me, felt just a tad bit weaker compared to the first season. I think the reason for that for me is just because of the time gaps between episodes.