The Orville was marketed (and probably pitched) as "family guy in space" but it was really just a vehicle for MacFarlane's Star Trek fanfiction, and that was honestly why it was so great. While...
The Orville was marketed (and probably pitched) as "family guy in space" but it was really just a vehicle for MacFarlane's Star Trek fanfiction, and that was honestly why it was so great. While most of the new Trek (aside from Lower Decks) tried to reinvent the genre, The Orville celebrated humanity and optimism in a way that classic Trek always did and was sorely missing from TV.
That's a good summary. I sometimes dream that I'm in control of Star Trek, and I gave that a lot of thought. I arrived at the conclusion that I would just lock Jonathan Frakes and Seth McFarlane...
That's a good summary.
I sometimes dream that I'm in control of Star Trek, and I gave that a lot of thought. I arrived at the conclusion that I would just lock Jonathan Frakes and Seth McFarlane in a room and then do whatever they come up with.
Seriously, I don't get it. What has he done recently that can be considered a success? Does he have dirt or is he just comfy for MAGA? It's why I have to assume there are people out there that...
Seriously, I don't get it. What has he done recently that can be considered a success? Does he have dirt or is he just comfy for MAGA? It's why I have to assume there are people out there that like nu-Trek, I just don't personally know any.
There certainly are people who like Nu-Trek -- my friend who's passionate about comics, DnD, and armchair activism from the last political cycle is all-in on the vibes of the whole Kurtzman scene....
There certainly are people who like Nu-Trek -- my friend who's passionate about comics, DnD, and armchair activism from the last political cycle is all-in on the vibes of the whole Kurtzman scene. That said, he's a smart guy that had a hard time teasing out what was actually good about Discovery when a few of us put him on the spot.
Kurtzman's Discovery is like bad fan fiction to me. It hits the right notes on production, interesting plot concepts and reviving the series, but where the fans and I don't agree is how well it sells any of that.
Time travel What-If? style plots are hampered by poor characters and rushed (or extreeemle drawn out) story beats, production looks great but does little that's novel (beyond what JJ'S films accomplished) and as for reviving the series, Paramount has put so many resources into this thing in recent years that the pizzaz of having Star Trek back is gone.
Yeah, well said. I also wish Star Trek would go back on the shelf until someone has a good idea for something new. I want Star Trek to get back to the utopian society idea. I get that it doesn't...
Yeah, well said. I also wish Star Trek would go back on the shelf until someone has a good idea for something new.
I want Star Trek to get back to the utopian society idea. I get that it doesn't always make for strong stories, but I don't care. Throw out everything after Voyager and the Dominion War. Give me hopeful Star Trek where the utopia pushes back against Section 31 and helps the Cardasians or Romulans rebuild. I get enough of our institutions failing us in real life, I don't also need that in Trek.
I feel however that the quality is closer to Voyager (which I still enjoy) than prime Star Trek (TOS, TNG, DS9). I checked out S3 recently, skipped to the episodes that were higher rated, and...
I feel however that the quality is closer to Voyager (which I still enjoy) than prime Star Trek (TOS, TNG, DS9). I checked out S3 recently, skipped to the episodes that were higher rated, and found them so-so. But I recall S1 and S2 being better.
Season 3 suffered from covid delays and too many loose ends from season 2, which was released three years before. A lot of season 3 felt bureaucratic and compulsory like narrative homework. They...
Season 3 suffered from covid delays and too many loose ends from season 2, which was released three years before. A lot of season 3 felt bureaucratic and compulsory like narrative homework. They lost momentum. But I still wouldn't say it is closer to Voyager than TNG in quality.
I think the way they largely abandoned most of the humor really drained it of a lot of its spark. I feel like the first season was a bit too heavy on the comedy, but then they overcorrected in...
I think the way they largely abandoned most of the humor really drained it of a lot of its spark.
I feel like the first season was a bit too heavy on the comedy, but then they overcorrected in Season 3.
Hopefully they find the right balance in Season 4.
I thought S3 was good, perhaps not as good as S2, but much better than S1. I think it's crazy that they wrote an episode about an alien kid (de)transitioning well enough that I don't recall any...
I thought S3 was good, perhaps not as good as S2, but much better than S1. I think it's crazy that they wrote an episode about an alien kid (de)transitioning well enough that I don't recall any culture war drama about it, for example. I definitely agree that as a whole it's closer to Voyager than to the holy trinity, but I'm entirely content with that.
I feel like Orville was a show where the writing, directing, and acting wasn't great, but was being done by people who fundamentally understood and appreciated some of the core ideas and...
I think it's crazy that they wrote an episode about an alien kid (de)transitioning well enough that I don't recall any culture war drama about it, for example. I definitely agree that as a whole it's closer to Voyager than to the holy trinity, but I'm entirely content with that.
I feel like Orville was a show where the writing, directing, and acting wasn't great, but was being done by people who fundamentally understood and appreciated some of the core ideas and approaches of Star Trek and that sort of science fiction more generally, especially when it comes to social and political commentary. The strength of that sort of science fiction is that it comments on issues in our society by presenting hypothetical issues that are not in our society, often building situations specifically to make generic responses and arguments difficult.
That episode felt like a good example of what Orville was, if I recall. It wasn't very well acted, and the script wasn't great, but it managed to take a topic, as you point out, could have blown up, and recast it in a way that entirely turned around standard arguments, making it such that a sex-at-birth anti-trans person would, if being consistent, need to support the kid transitioning.
This is fantastic news! I knew it wasn't officially cancelled but it has been so long now that I just assumed it was basically done. It's a cliche at this point, but The Orville is more Star Trek...
This is fantastic news! I knew it wasn't officially cancelled but it has been so long now that I just assumed it was basically done. It's a cliche at this point, but The Orville is more Star Trek like than any of the hot garbage "nu-Trek". He better make this happen before Hulu loses interest. I need me more Bortus!
The Orville is, in my view, a true spiritual successor to Star Trek. The optimism for the future, the character development and having so many well-developed characters with no one really being...
The Orville is, in my view, a true spiritual successor to Star Trek. The optimism for the future, the character development and having so many well-developed characters with no one really being the 'main' character. The use of the story to explore current-day difficult cultural issues.
The only thing I didn't pick up on as much (but it's been a while since I watched it, please correct me if I'm wrong) is the integration of real STEM material wherever possible - Star Trek: The Next Generation was a huge influence on me, steering me towards Physics and Electronics - I literally have the life and self-employment I do right now in large part because of that influence on me, and for all my difficulties I love where my life is right now. Probably the only other show that had anywhere close to that level of influence on young-me would be MacGyver (not OG MacGyver, because there was only ever ONE MacGyver show, there was no remake it does not exist lalalaLALA!!!!!) and that was a distant second compared to Star Trek.
I've been disappointed by a great deal of recent Trek. So much has felt like a betrayal of the original spirit of a better, hopeful future. And it isn't like 'edgy' cannot be done in Star Trek! Deep Space 9 showed us that, and it had some of the best writing ever seen, and some of the best monologues.
I recently wrote this on the cancellation of SFA, you may have already read it, but I believe we will have a lot to agree on. The main character of any Star Trek is supposed to the ship, goddamnit.
having so many well-developed characters with no one really being the 'main' character.
I recently wrote this on the cancellation of SFA, you may have already read it, but I believe we will have a lot to agree on.
The main character of any Star Trek is supposed to the ship, goddamnit.
Kind of a nothing story to be honest. Despite the reports from screenwriters, writing is far from the hardest part of television production. It would be difficult to get everyone on cast in the...
Kind of a nothing story to be honest. Despite the reports from screenwriters, writing is far from the hardest part of television production. It would be difficult to get everyone on cast in the same room again, and for Disney to approve a budget for their bootleg Star Trek show, when Paramount flooded the market with actual Star Trek shows.
He didn't just say that it's written, he said that it is happening and it's just a matter of when. We'll only know for sure once (if) they start shooting, but surely that means something.
He didn't just say that it's written, he said that it is happening and it's just a matter of when. We'll only know for sure once (if) they start shooting, but surely that means something.
The Orville was marketed (and probably pitched) as "family guy in space" but it was really just a vehicle for MacFarlane's Star Trek fanfiction, and that was honestly why it was so great. While most of the new Trek (aside from Lower Decks) tried to reinvent the genre, The Orville celebrated humanity and optimism in a way that classic Trek always did and was sorely missing from TV.
That's a good summary.
I sometimes dream that I'm in control of Star Trek, and I gave that a lot of thought. I arrived at the conclusion that I would just lock Jonathan Frakes and Seth McFarlane in a room and then do whatever they come up with.
This is the way. You have my vote to run Star Trek. Sadly, it sounds like Paramount is trying to extend Kurtzman's deal...
... And why, I have no idea. It's like he has dirt on them all or something.
Seriously, I don't get it. What has he done recently that can be considered a success? Does he have dirt or is he just comfy for MAGA? It's why I have to assume there are people out there that like nu-Trek, I just don't personally know any.
There certainly are people who like Nu-Trek -- my friend who's passionate about comics, DnD, and armchair activism from the last political cycle is all-in on the vibes of the whole Kurtzman scene. That said, he's a smart guy that had a hard time teasing out what was actually good about Discovery when a few of us put him on the spot.
Kurtzman's Discovery is like bad fan fiction to me. It hits the right notes on production, interesting plot concepts and reviving the series, but where the fans and I don't agree is how well it sells any of that.
Time travel What-If? style plots are hampered by poor characters and rushed (or extreeemle drawn out) story beats, production looks great but does little that's novel (beyond what JJ'S films accomplished) and as for reviving the series, Paramount has put so many resources into this thing in recent years that the pizzaz of having Star Trek back is gone.
I now wish Star Trek would just go away.
Yeah, well said. I also wish Star Trek would go back on the shelf until someone has a good idea for something new.
I want Star Trek to get back to the utopian society idea. I get that it doesn't always make for strong stories, but I don't care. Throw out everything after Voyager and the Dominion War. Give me hopeful Star Trek where the utopia pushes back against Section 31 and helps the Cardasians or Romulans rebuild. I get enough of our institutions failing us in real life, I don't also need that in Trek.
"Break glass in case of emergency" should have been their operating philosophy - I agree. Keep the NCIS police intrigue out of future sci Fi plz.
Strange New Worlds is pretty great. Still need to catch up on the latest season but it's a gem
Toss in Ira Steven Behr and Ron Moore and you’ve got my interest!
We're living in strange times when a Star Trek inspired comedy show is a better Star Trek show than actual Star Trek.
That and the best Star Trek show is an animated comedy
Canceling Lower Decks was a crime.
I'm thankful that IDW is at least publishing an ongoing comic.
I feel however that the quality is closer to Voyager (which I still enjoy) than prime Star Trek (TOS, TNG, DS9). I checked out S3 recently, skipped to the episodes that were higher rated, and found them so-so. But I recall S1 and S2 being better.
Season 3 suffered from covid delays and too many loose ends from season 2, which was released three years before. A lot of season 3 felt bureaucratic and compulsory like narrative homework. They lost momentum. But I still wouldn't say it is closer to Voyager than TNG in quality.
I think the way they largely abandoned most of the humor really drained it of a lot of its spark.
I feel like the first season was a bit too heavy on the comedy, but then they overcorrected in Season 3.
Hopefully they find the right balance in Season 4.
I thought S3 was good, perhaps not as good as S2, but much better than S1. I think it's crazy that they wrote an episode about an alien kid (de)transitioning well enough that I don't recall any culture war drama about it, for example. I definitely agree that as a whole it's closer to Voyager than to the holy trinity, but I'm entirely content with that.
I feel like Orville was a show where the writing, directing, and acting wasn't great, but was being done by people who fundamentally understood and appreciated some of the core ideas and approaches of Star Trek and that sort of science fiction more generally, especially when it comes to social and political commentary. The strength of that sort of science fiction is that it comments on issues in our society by presenting hypothetical issues that are not in our society, often building situations specifically to make generic responses and arguments difficult.
That episode felt like a good example of what Orville was, if I recall. It wasn't very well acted, and the script wasn't great, but it managed to take a topic, as you point out, could have blown up, and recast it in a way that entirely turned around standard arguments, making it such that a sex-at-birth anti-trans person would, if being consistent, need to support the kid transitioning.
Wasn't that the same one undergirded by Dolly Parton's 9-to-5? Classic.
This is fantastic news! I knew it wasn't officially cancelled but it has been so long now that I just assumed it was basically done. It's a cliche at this point, but The Orville is more Star Trek like than any of the hot garbage "nu-Trek". He better make this happen before Hulu loses interest. I need me more Bortus!
The Orville is, in my view, a true spiritual successor to Star Trek. The optimism for the future, the character development and having so many well-developed characters with no one really being the 'main' character. The use of the story to explore current-day difficult cultural issues.
The only thing I didn't pick up on as much (but it's been a while since I watched it, please correct me if I'm wrong) is the integration of real STEM material wherever possible - Star Trek: The Next Generation was a huge influence on me, steering me towards Physics and Electronics - I literally have the life and self-employment I do right now in large part because of that influence on me, and for all my difficulties I love where my life is right now. Probably the only other show that had anywhere close to that level of influence on young-me would be MacGyver (not OG MacGyver, because there was only ever ONE MacGyver show, there was no remake it does not exist lalalaLALA!!!!!) and that was a distant second compared to Star Trek.
I've been disappointed by a great deal of recent Trek. So much has felt like a betrayal of the original spirit of a better, hopeful future. And it isn't like 'edgy' cannot be done in Star Trek! Deep Space 9 showed us that, and it had some of the best writing ever seen, and some of the best monologues.
The confession of Gul Darheel.
In the Pale Moonlight.
Dukat in Sacrifice of Angels.
I recently wrote this on the cancellation of SFA, you may have already read it, but I believe we will have a lot to agree on.
The main character of any Star Trek is supposed to the ship, goddamnit.
I did read that, and yes, we do agree on a great deal there.
I miss TNG/DS9 era Trek.
Kind of a nothing story to be honest. Despite the reports from screenwriters, writing is far from the hardest part of television production. It would be difficult to get everyone on cast in the same room again, and for Disney to approve a budget for their bootleg Star Trek show, when Paramount flooded the market with actual Star Trek shows.
Paramount didn't flood the market with new shows; they flooded Paramount+ with new shows. Those are very different in a fractured media landscape.
Many of the new Star Trek shows have run on CBS or in syndication on other networks. They aren’t just trapped on Paramount+.
Only 36% of Americans have a traditional TV subscription these days, and the Orville is streaming-only. The market was not flooded.
He didn't just say that it's written, he said that it is happening and it's just a matter of when. We'll only know for sure once (if) they start shooting, but surely that means something.
That show has no right of being as good as it is. It makes no sense.