From the article: […] Also: I wonder if we will see more housing mixed with retail or commercial development due to this law?
From the article:
Costco wants to build a new store in Los Angeles' Baldwin Village neighborhood. […] The way this worked historically, a developer would first propose a project that complies with all existing rules. After the city determines it checks all the boxes, they would still spend years being reviewed by the planning commission, city council, and members of the public.
Recent reforms, though, have created alternative processes. If a project meets specific criteria, it's able to jump tracks and avoid the years-long public debate
[…]
In the case of Costco, building ~400,000 sqft of housing to qualify for the alternative track was easier than dealing with the legacy process.
Also:
[the law’s prevailing wage requirement] only applies to onsite labor. Work done off-site can be paid at whatever rates the developer can negotiate. What Costco seems to be planning is to buy prefab modular units (built at a factory somewhere else). This will let them save on labor costs.
I wonder if we will see more housing mixed with retail or commercial development due to this law?
It seems like developing commercial and retail in the same location is a good combo even without it being forced by zoning. I know some failing malls have been able to convert part of their...
It seems like developing commercial and retail in the same location is a good combo even without it being forced by zoning. I know some failing malls have been able to convert part of their property into housing which in turn increases the foot traffic for the remaining stores.
Metro Vancouver encompasses this so greatly the architecture phenomenon is called Vancouverism. Coincidentally enough, City of Vancouver's only Costco is located downtown underneath the viaducts...
Metro Vancouver encompasses this so greatly the architecture phenomenon is called Vancouverism.
It is characterized by a large residential population living in the city centre with mixed-use developments, typically with a medium-height, commercial base and narrow, high-rise residential towers, significant reliance on mass public transit, creation and maintenance of green park spaces, and preserving view corridors.
It is characterized by a large residential population living in the city centre with mixed-use developments, typically with a medium-height, commercial base and narrow, high-rise residential towers, significant reliance on mass public transit, creation and maintenance of green park spaces, and preserving view corridors.
The emphasis is on clusters of town centres with high stories which is not exclusive to the commercial business district. The metro region, within the individual suburb cities consists of clusters...
The emphasis is on clusters of town centres with high stories which is not exclusive to the commercial business district.
The metro region, within the individual suburb cities consists of clusters of high rise buildings. Most of which are 120m (400ft) or higher. The areas most closely related to this in Europe consists generally of low-rise skylines, including along arterial corridors.
"Welcome to Costco. I love you". Sounds like we're one step closer to Costco University law degrees. In all honesty thought, modular housing is definitely the way to go overall, whoever is on...
"Welcome to Costco. I love you". Sounds like we're one step closer to Costco University law degrees.
In all honesty thought, modular housing is definitely the way to go overall, whoever is on helm. But Costco also has the clout to negotiate for rock bottom prices at volume, coupled with their labour standards monitoring, and potentially could replicate this at any location that doesn't currently have a Costco due to not enough population. Solution: build your own population.
Pair it with free lifetime membership and price it even at market rate and I'm in. Of all mega corp food options, Costco has consistently been the one that screws me over the least by a warehouse wide margin. For decades they've been the probably solitary balwark against shrinkflation, crappy quality, gotcha sale pricing tactics, and shady after-sales.
The only thing I would worry about is parking. The warehouse itself is going to draw an insane number of cars. Now add housing and potentially other smaller stores departments like optometrist, dentist, gas station etc.... it could work of course but it'll be impressive. Maybe a flat lot like regular Costco for the warehouse side, and then a parking tower for the residents. Can parking garages be built modularly, Hot Wheels tracks style?
Costco is not really that great of a company. In my experience they tend to make you overspend by presenting the illusion of value. The products on the shelves tend to not be the same as products...
Costco is not really that great of a company. In my experience they tend to make you overspend by presenting the illusion of value. The products on the shelves tend to not be the same as products you can find elsewhere. Even if they have a major brand name on it it’s going to be a Costco-exclusive SKU where the product has been altered. If it’s complex like an appliance, it means that it’s been simplified to lower the cost, and if it is something simple like a food or paper product they group them in different sizes so it’s harder to compare. For instance, boxed breakfast cereals will be sold with multiple bags in them and their unit price will be “each” - completely ignoring that the amount of food in each bag could be entirely different from the ones they sell in grocery stores. The quality of their fresh foods can vary, but for me they have always been mid at best, but the fact that you can only buy them at bulk meant that they were out of reach for me because it was impossible to eat all of it before it spoiled without sacrificing the quality of my diet.
The one product I think best demonstrates the quality illusion of Costco is their hot tubs. Their execs want to sell hot tubs but they want them as cheap as possible. So they go to the manufacturers and tell them we will buy a hot tub with Y specs for X dollars. The only way to do that is to cut out features that are not on that spec sheet, so you get the lowest quality parts and things like replacing support structures made of pressure treated wood with blocks of polystyrene foam. The manufacturers make a new brand name because it would otherwise ruin their reputation. The kicker is that they are so low quality they are illegal to sell in my state - you have to buy them online and have them freight it to you. You think you are getting a great deal but you are getting something that is much lower quality that will not last as long. It’s like choosing the plastic spoon over the steel spoon.
To my understanding, the only stuff is really thought were worth buying were the stuff that are well known loss leaders - the hot dog combo, the roast chicken, and the gas. But because of the cult of Costco it always felt like a fight to get to any of it. You want the food? Fight through the crowds to get to it and check out. You want the gas? You are going to sacrifice a gallon of it driving out of your way to their station and idling your engine waiting in the long lines.
If you happen to be in the western US, check out Winco. Their stores are about the size of Costco, but they sell food almost exclusively, their food is in reasonable sizes, they have bulk bins so you can get exactly what you need, and have an insane variety of food. Better yet they are employee owned, so their workers are likely treated even better.
Very interesting. Quality of products is such an interesting thing.... Great to know about their hot tubs. Is it really a mileage will vary depending on product? I've yet to encounter "how is it...
Very interesting. Quality of products is such an interesting thing.... Great to know about their hot tubs.
Is it really a mileage will vary depending on product? I've yet to encounter "how is it legal for them to sell such crap" level anger with Costco products, especially electronics. Maybe it's also because I wouldn't not hesitate to bring it back if it's only been a year or something ridiculous. Meanwhile no such luck with any other retailers in Canada taking that kind of responsibility: it's like they've never seen your before the moment your product is paid. Recently we had a Quaker Oats cereal recall, and only heard about it from Costco repeatedly reaching out to me because in their records I bought some. The ninja blender, printer, stand mixer, microwave etc are all going strong years later.
Maybe it's not that Costco is that great. Maybe it's just that other Canadian retailers suck so much worse in comparison?
I wish we had a Winco that sounds great. Not a lot of food options up here unfortunately.
To be clear, hot tubs are just a particularly bad example. I have a Waterpik branded shower head that I bought from Costco, and to my knowledge the only differences are that the Costco version...
To be clear, hot tubs are just a particularly bad example. I have a Waterpik branded shower head that I bought from Costco, and to my knowledge the only differences are that the Costco version doesn't have a reducer that would make the pressure higher and the packaging is slightly different (you'll notice most of their hard goods have Costco SKU numbers written on them, the same ones that are on the price signs). They do similar things for a number of their goods. TVs will have fewer inputs, computers might have slower RAM, expensive things might have shorter warranties, and things like that.
To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying that Costco's products are a worse value by necessity, just that they make it very difficult to compare that value. That shower head was a great buy because I honestly hate those super high pressure modes; they're really uncomfortable on my skin. But other products can be extremely murky. Have you ever tried to get into the weeds about the actual value of toilet paper? Shoppers will compare within a brand and the number of rolls in a pack and stop there, but rolls can be made with rolls of varying number of sheets, the sheets can be varying lengths, and even the widths of the rolls vary - and that's within the same named product!
Toilet paper: I tried for a bit and then gave up. Same brand same everything, different number of squares and even different dimensions for each square. The amount of human thought wasted on min...
Toilet paper:
I tried for a bit and then gave up. Same brand same everything, different number of squares and even different dimensions for each square.
The amount of human thought wasted on min maxing TP could have taken us to the next solar system and back. It's probably the only place I can think of where calculus might be useful. I hate it
oh, it's not always listed in Canada from superstore https://envs.sh/eyV.jpg from Costco https://envs.sh/eyx.jpg The Charmin at superstore and the Kirkland TP have total square meters.... I'm not...
The Charmin at superstore and the Kirkland TP have total square meters....
I'm not sure if it's just web images are like that, and I can't say for sure it's always there on the physical package or not either.....I'll check next time I'm at a store
Do you have any sources regarding selling inferior versions of products? I've bought many things from Costco, from dining sets to sheds, and have always been happy with the quality. I'm sure they...
Do you have any sources regarding selling inferior versions of products? I've bought many things from Costco, from dining sets to sheds, and have always been happy with the quality. I'm sure they have Costco specific SKU's, and that might reflect different components on some items, but that doesn't mean they have a general practice of lowering quality. Indeed, I've always found them quick to stand by their products.
As far as bulk foods, I don't think people shop at Costco because it is cheapest, but because it is the best value. You tend to get better versions of things than other big box retailers, for prices lower than places like whole foods.
WinCo is great, and I did my weekly shopping there for 20 years, but they aren't really comparable to Costco. Better for shipping on a budget, yes, but not for truly bulk items like 25lb bags of flour or rice, or more mid-premium items like spirits, cheeses, and produce.
Edit: also, their muffins freeze really well since you need to buy 2 6-packs.
It's mainly personal experience. I used hot tubs as an example because I actually work for a company in that industry and we have attempted repairs on their spas. To be fair, though, Costco...
It's mainly personal experience. I used hot tubs as an example because I actually work for a company in that industry and we have attempted repairs on their spas. To be fair, though, Costco actually has gone through a handful of different manufacturers, so the ones they are selling now may not be as bad. I'd actually be surprised if they were still selling spas supported by EPS, since the company making them now is fairly reputable.
This store specific SKU thing isn't at all unique to Costco. A lot of "high tech" consumer stuff - TVs, computers, printers, etc. - tends to have these low cost SKUs that get sold at places like Amazon or Best Buy. The thing about it that bugs me about Costco is that they take it to extremes and add a number of other tricks to disorient you into thinking that you're getting a fabulous deal when you are arguably not. Other retailers do much of the same things, but none do it to the same scale as Costco. I'm not saying that good value doesn't exist there - their bakery is usually a pretty great example - but that they pull tricks to make people massively overestimate how good that value is.
Winco is absolutely not the same kind of thing as Costco. They don't sell eyeglasses, RVs, or vacation packages. But it's much more comparable within the things they do sell to Costco than Whole Foods is. I honestly don't understand why I keep seeing people saying things are cheap when compared to Whole Foods. Are people genuinely not aware that their products are wildly overpriced? In any case, Winco does indeed sell giant bags of grains (pretty much everything in their bulk bins are available in the original packaging if you ask, the most common of which are already on the floor). They also have a huge selection of cheese and produce; they actually have the best quality and price for produce in my area. I can't say how their spirits are though, since I don't drink.
I compared Costco to Winco because I think that for a lot of people Costco is basically a grocery store. But that's something I don't think that Costco is good at. They work well for foodservice companies, but I think that people end up eating really poorly when they shop at club stores like Costco because they are forced by time to consume their food quickly. Yes, you can freeze stuff, but my grandfather is the only person I know who shopped for food at one of them (Sam's Club in his case) and also owned a chest freezer to deal with the excess. And when you go shopping there, they do a lot to try to get you to buy unhealthy processed food; the fresh food is all the way in the opposite corner of the store, so you have to pass through what feels like half a mile of processed foods, of which they are constantly cooking and giving samples to entice you.
I think this is just a matter of different perspectives. I don't know anyone in my family or social group who do routine grocery shopping at Costco. Rather, it is bulk runs of select items, or...
I think this is just a matter of different perspectives. I don't know anyone in my family or social group who do routine grocery shopping at Costco. Rather, it is bulk runs of select items, or targeted to things they do well at a lower price.
I picked whole foods, because when it comes to things like fresh fruit, fresh packed pasta, etc, Costco delivers similar quality at a lower price than whole foods.
The WinCo's I shopped at never had 25lb bags of rice. The largest bags they had out were 5lb. I shopped for a family of 5 on a $70/week budget at WinCo for years, and know the stores I shopped at like the back of my hand. Maybe others were different.
So if your only metric is, what is the least expensive way to acquire goods, then Costco is going to feel like a bad deal. Because that isn't what they are about. It's why they don't have any "cheap" yogurt; it's all cream top or Greek or in little cups with fruit. They carry slightly more premium products comparable to places like whole foods, at a lower price, and also squeeze in vacuum cleaners and appliances. But the typical Costco only has like 5,000 SKU's in a given store, which is small compared to stores like Walmart.
And the reason I'm sceptical about an ongoing trend of inferior products from Costco is that I simply haven't seen it reported on, and can't find any consumer site making similar claims. If true and systemic, that would be a huge scoop.
Edit:
I just checked my old WinCo vs Costco process for basmati rice, and Costco came in $3 cheaper for 25lbs when compared to WinCo's bulk prices.
Every time I went to Costco, at least 75% of other people's baskets were filled with food. The appearance of quality is one of the big things that Costco does to give the impression of value. The...
Every time I went to Costco, at least 75% of other people's baskets were filled with food.
The appearance of quality is one of the big things that Costco does to give the impression of value. The fact that they don't have "cheap" yogurt is a negative, not a positive. I've never heard of cream top yogurt before, but greek yogurt and yogurt with fruit is not a premium commodity and can be found with the same general quality in discount stores. The thing that makes that yogurt premium is nothing more than the brand name on it.
There isn't much coverage about these products because in reality it's probably a tiny fraction of the items they sell, and it's not newsworthy because just about every major retailer does the same thing. But if you want to learn more, just look for yourself!
How about printers, for instance? Right now you can buy this Brother printer from them. But if you go to Brother's website they don't have that model listed. There is an MFC-L2750DW, but there's no B in that model. If you compare the specs between the two, they look exactly the same, but it's pretty obvious that Costco's website doesn't have the full specs, so you really have no way of knowing what the difference is between the two except that one comes bundled with a ream of paper.
If Costco can't get a customized cost-reduced product for whatever, then a common tactic they will do is to bundle stuff together. Take for instance this keyboard, which you can also buy on Amazon for about $10 less. When you look at this you might immediately think to yourself that for $10 you get a bunch of extras, but when you dig into what you're actually getting, you might realize that you don't actually need any of it, and if you do, you probably want better versions of it. That stand in particular is literally the cheapest keyboard stand you can buy, and as an owner of one I can tell you it's a wobbly mess. Long ago I bought a camera kit from them that came with a telephoto lens and a camera bag, and I rarely used the lens because it was better suited for sports photography and the bag only got used to store my equipment because even though it was excellent quality (it was an official Canon accessory) it was too damn bulky.
Sometimes it's not even clear if it's a customized product or if it's the same thing in a bundle. here's a good TV from Costco, and here is presumably the same TV from Best Buy, currently on sale for $50 less. The thing you are paying $50 for is an extended warranty - the thing that they try to sell to chumps. But it's still not the same TV. This isn't just a number that Costco put on it to indicate the bundle, either - it's an actual LG SKU.
But to reiterate, my problem with Costco is not really a lack of quality or value. It's a lack of transparancy and the mind games that they play with you to make you think that the quality and value is much better than they actually are. They may not be scamming you, but they're doing a lot to get you to spend more than you need to.
I find this such a strange take. Costco serves a niche. They aren't trying to be Walmart or Safeway or Giant. They are a club store with a specific value proposition, a target market, and they use...
I find this such a strange take. Costco serves a niche. They aren't trying to be Walmart or Safeway or Giant. They are a club store with a specific value proposition, a target market, and they use advertising to appeal to that market.
You might find it a negative that they don't sell cheap yogurt, but their target market finds it as a positive. Yes, styles like Greek can be variable, but Greek gods, chobani, and brown cow are very different than yoplait. Costcos customers like that there is a set floor for quality that is higher than a typical box store.
As for bundling appliances, etc, it sounds like your complaint is people buying what they don't need, like that camera accessory bag you say is high quality but too bulky. But how is what Costco is doing uniquely deceptive?
We've moved from the claim that they systematically sell alternative inferior SKU's of common products, to some of their items aren't the best or sell for more because of an extended warranty. I mean, yeah, I don't but printers from Costco or extended warranties in general. But time and place utility is a thing, and some people value warranties more than I do.
So I am really just wondering why the Costco specific hate here when everything you describe is done, and worse, by other retailers? It really sounds like more of a general dislike of marketing.
Please note that I never said that Costco's SKUs were inferior, I merely stated that they were altered. Some of them are inferior. I don't know how much more clearly I can communicate this, but...
Please note that I never said that Costco's SKUs were inferior, I merely stated that they were altered. Some of them are inferior.
I don't know how much more clearly I can communicate this, but the amount of misdirection and psychological trickery that Costco does is unrivaled. The closest analogue to them is Sam's Club, and they basically just copy what Costco does verbatim (except the part where they treat their workers well, notably). Yes, they are using tricks that other retailers use, but nobody else does all of them. Even the membership fee is part of it; they are currently on track to make $5bn a year on membership fees alone, before they even sell any goods. Their practices quite literally change people. Heck, just try saying something negative about them on the internet and see how quickly people will come to tell you you're wrong.
And sure, feel free to chop this up to a general dislike of marketing. Why is that a bad thing? Isn't it worse that we normalize corporations taking advantage of people just because it's common?
You have made multiple, vague, broad, and unsourced claims about their practices that in totality amount to the claim that they have a practice of using reduced quality SKU's. You also used hot...
Please note that I never said that Costco's SKUs were inferior, I merely stated that they were altered. Some of them are inferior.
You have made multiple, vague, broad, and unsourced claims about their practices that in totality amount to the claim that they have a practice of using reduced quality SKU's. You also used hot tubs as a specific example in support of your more general claim.
The products on the shelves tend to not be the same as products you can find elsewhere. Even if they have a major brand name on it it’s going to be a Costco-exclusive SKU where the product has been altered. If it’s complex like an appliance, it means that it’s been simplified to lower the cost,
[...]
The one product I think best demonstrates the quality illusion of Costco is their hot tubs.
[...]
So they go to the manufacturers and tell them we will buy a hot tub with Y specs for X dollars. The only way to do that is to cut out features that are not on that spec sheet, so you get the lowest quality parts and things like replacing support structures made of pressure treated wood with blocks of polystyrene foam.
And your comment goes on.
Making a general claim and then supporting it with a specific (uncorroborated) example is a classic structure to present an argument or position. I can't imagine what other position it would be presenting here than what I interpreted. You say Costco alters their appliances in a deceptive way to create the illusion of value. Then you say, this is best seen with hot tubs and give examples of modifications that lower the quality that would ruin the manufacturers reputation.
Many folks on the internet have a bad habit of nitpicking individual details of a comment to ignore it's main points. I try to avoid doing that by focusing on the takeaway of a comment. I can't imagine the takeaway here other than what I have said.
But what I'll end with here is what I feel is a paternalistic claim. Who says people shopping at Costco are being taken advantage of? Why are we assuming these people lack the competency to understand the value proposition they are receiving?
Value is subjective, but for a lot of people, they feel that they get good value from their purchases at Costco. If they didn't, they wouldn't go. I wouldn't tell someone they are wrong for not finding good value in Costco, and don't see how the claim can be supported the other way.
I don't know how much more clearly I can communicate this, but the amount of misdirection and psychological trickery that Costco does is unrivaled.
Sources, please. We are getting into conspiracy theory territory here. If Costco consistently alerted SKU's to sell junk, some gear teardown site somewhere would corroborate this. If Costco was some marketing manipulator mastermind, why haven't I seen news article on the subject where I've seen other articles of deceptive practices.
Frankly, I rarely even see emails or mail from Costco, let alone ads or other manipulative content. They literally just sit there, menacingly apparently, selling stuff people like. I get one quarterly mailer from them with the seasons deals. No gimmicky come in by Friday high pressure materials, etc.
So hate on marketing all you want, but you made the claim that Costco is the worst at deceptive practices, and have failed to corroborate that with anything other than your opinion. Which, whatever, it's your opinion and you are entitled to it. But others have theirs as well, and lacking any corroborating sources, you don't provide any reason others should accept your claim that they are literally the worst in the realm of deceptive practices.
You know what? I give up. Costco is godly, and I am wrong for having criticized them. I don't want to argue with you about things you are clearly so emotionally invested in.
You know what? I give up. Costco is godly, and I am wrong for having criticized them. I don't want to argue with you about things you are clearly so emotionally invested in.
It's ok to dislike Costco and it's ok to have a conversation that results in disagreement based on opinion. It's also ok to ask for sources when someone makes a claim. There doesn't need to be a...
It's ok to dislike Costco and it's ok to have a conversation that results in disagreement based on opinion.
It's also ok to ask for sources when someone makes a claim. There doesn't need to be a villain in every story.
I remember reading news stories about how Walmart has products made specifically for them to keep prices lower. (I think it was things like jeans and lawn mowers.) I’m a little surprised to hear...
I remember reading news stories about how Walmart has products made specifically for them to keep prices lower. (I think it was things like jeans and lawn mowers.)
I’m a little surprised to hear that Costco does it more. It seems like it would be hard to tell?
Of course for store brands, they can do what they like, and Costco has its own store brand. (Kirkland.) Most grocery stores do this. The part that’s a little dubious is using a well-known brand like Levi’s, but I think that’s up to the manufacturer how much they want to protect their brand. If the customer doesn’t notice then they might have positive feelings about the brand anyway?
When I was looking at Costco hearing aids, it was a different brand, but they were quite similar to specific models from certain other brands, with fewer features. They were probably made by the same factory. (I didn’t go with them, but I think it would be a decent choice for someone who wanted to save money more than I did.)
This is also something some Chinese manufacturers do, making a similar thing to what they already did for a well-known brand, but with a different brand on it, and sold cheaper. And they will also reduce product quality over time if the brand doesn’t have good QA to prevent it.
If it’s made in some foreign factory, the brand is really about having higher standards and good QA. Some companies care enough to do it, others are just a label. Brands are often less useful than it appears.
We have a few underground parking spots here in NL. Honestly, it can actually be quite useful urban planning wise. It leaves more space for buildings above ground. It can be expensive, but it's a...
We have a few underground parking spots here in NL. Honestly, it can actually be quite useful urban planning wise. It leaves more space for buildings above ground. It can be expensive, but it's a very efficient usage of land.
It's not always an option but where it is it makes the city more compact and generally more walkable.
...i can't say much but: keep your eye on the scandinavian flat-pack industry... ...as ever, though, the bar to affordable housing isn't the houses, it's the land and infrastructure...
...i can't say much but: keep your eye on the scandinavian flat-pack industry...
...as ever, though, the bar to affordable housing isn't the houses, it's the land and infrastructure...
Cryptic clue about flat pack :) Maybe the housing depends on where? I'm sitting on several acres of land that was practically free, with municipal sewer and electricity and water and road access...
Cryptic clue about flat pack :)
Maybe the housing depends on where? I'm sitting on several acres of land that was practically free, with municipal sewer and electricity and water and road access but I can't get a quote for building even a small house for less than $300k. And yes there a lots of low income seniors who need affordable housing here.
From the article:
[…]
Also:
I wonder if we will see more housing mixed with retail or commercial development due to this law?
It seems like developing commercial and retail in the same location is a good combo even without it being forced by zoning. I know some failing malls have been able to convert part of their property into housing which in turn increases the foot traffic for the remaining stores.
There's multiple reasons cities often have apartments above storefronts.
Metro Vancouver encompasses this so greatly the architecture phenomenon is called Vancouverism.
Coincidentally enough, City of Vancouver's only Costco is located downtown underneath the viaducts and, you named it, residential high-rise towers above. "The first Costco warehouse to be built as part of a residential and commercial project."
So, like, any European city?
more like any non US and Canadian city.
The emphasis is on clusters of town centres with high stories which is not exclusive to the commercial business district.
The metro region, within the individual suburb cities consists of clusters of high rise buildings. Most of which are 120m (400ft) or higher. The areas most closely related to this in Europe consists generally of low-rise skylines, including along arterial corridors.
The recent not just bikes video on Shinjuku station discusses the close relation between shopping malls and train tracks.
"Welcome to Costco. I love you". Sounds like we're one step closer to Costco University law degrees.
In all honesty thought, modular housing is definitely the way to go overall, whoever is on helm. But Costco also has the clout to negotiate for rock bottom prices at volume, coupled with their labour standards monitoring, and potentially could replicate this at any location that doesn't currently have a Costco due to not enough population. Solution: build your own population.
Pair it with free lifetime membership and price it even at market rate and I'm in. Of all mega corp food options, Costco has consistently been the one that screws me over the least by a warehouse wide margin. For decades they've been the probably solitary balwark against shrinkflation, crappy quality, gotcha sale pricing tactics, and shady after-sales.
The only thing I would worry about is parking. The warehouse itself is going to draw an insane number of cars. Now add housing and potentially other smaller
storesdepartments like optometrist, dentist, gas station etc.... it could work of course but it'll be impressive. Maybe a flat lot like regular Costco for the warehouse side, and then a parking tower for the residents. Can parking garages be built modularly, Hot Wheels tracks style?Costco is not really that great of a company. In my experience they tend to make you overspend by presenting the illusion of value. The products on the shelves tend to not be the same as products you can find elsewhere. Even if they have a major brand name on it it’s going to be a Costco-exclusive SKU where the product has been altered. If it’s complex like an appliance, it means that it’s been simplified to lower the cost, and if it is something simple like a food or paper product they group them in different sizes so it’s harder to compare. For instance, boxed breakfast cereals will be sold with multiple bags in them and their unit price will be “each” - completely ignoring that the amount of food in each bag could be entirely different from the ones they sell in grocery stores. The quality of their fresh foods can vary, but for me they have always been mid at best, but the fact that you can only buy them at bulk meant that they were out of reach for me because it was impossible to eat all of it before it spoiled without sacrificing the quality of my diet.
The one product I think best demonstrates the quality illusion of Costco is their hot tubs. Their execs want to sell hot tubs but they want them as cheap as possible. So they go to the manufacturers and tell them we will buy a hot tub with Y specs for X dollars. The only way to do that is to cut out features that are not on that spec sheet, so you get the lowest quality parts and things like replacing support structures made of pressure treated wood with blocks of polystyrene foam. The manufacturers make a new brand name because it would otherwise ruin their reputation. The kicker is that they are so low quality they are illegal to sell in my state - you have to buy them online and have them freight it to you. You think you are getting a great deal but you are getting something that is much lower quality that will not last as long. It’s like choosing the plastic spoon over the steel spoon.
To my understanding, the only stuff is really thought were worth buying were the stuff that are well known loss leaders - the hot dog combo, the roast chicken, and the gas. But because of the cult of Costco it always felt like a fight to get to any of it. You want the food? Fight through the crowds to get to it and check out. You want the gas? You are going to sacrifice a gallon of it driving out of your way to their station and idling your engine waiting in the long lines.
If you happen to be in the western US, check out Winco. Their stores are about the size of Costco, but they sell food almost exclusively, their food is in reasonable sizes, they have bulk bins so you can get exactly what you need, and have an insane variety of food. Better yet they are employee owned, so their workers are likely treated even better.
Very interesting. Quality of products is such an interesting thing.... Great to know about their hot tubs.
Is it really a mileage will vary depending on product? I've yet to encounter "how is it legal for them to sell such crap" level anger with Costco products, especially electronics. Maybe it's also because I wouldn't not hesitate to bring it back if it's only been a year or something ridiculous. Meanwhile no such luck with any other retailers in Canada taking that kind of responsibility: it's like they've never seen your before the moment your product is paid. Recently we had a Quaker Oats cereal recall, and only heard about it from Costco repeatedly reaching out to me because in their records I bought some. The ninja blender, printer, stand mixer, microwave etc are all going strong years later.
Maybe it's not that Costco is that great. Maybe it's just that other Canadian retailers suck so much worse in comparison?
I wish we had a Winco that sounds great. Not a lot of food options up here unfortunately.
To be clear, hot tubs are just a particularly bad example. I have a Waterpik branded shower head that I bought from Costco, and to my knowledge the only differences are that the Costco version doesn't have a reducer that would make the pressure higher and the packaging is slightly different (you'll notice most of their hard goods have Costco SKU numbers written on them, the same ones that are on the price signs). They do similar things for a number of their goods. TVs will have fewer inputs, computers might have slower RAM, expensive things might have shorter warranties, and things like that.
To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying that Costco's products are a worse value by necessity, just that they make it very difficult to compare that value. That shower head was a great buy because I honestly hate those super high pressure modes; they're really uncomfortable on my skin. But other products can be extremely murky. Have you ever tried to get into the weeds about the actual value of toilet paper? Shoppers will compare within a brand and the number of rolls in a pack and stop there, but rolls can be made with rolls of varying number of sheets, the sheets can be varying lengths, and even the widths of the rolls vary - and that's within the same named product!
Toilet paper:
I tried for a bit and then gave up. Same brand same everything, different number of squares and even different dimensions for each square.
The amount of human thought wasted on min maxing TP could have taken us to the next solar system and back. It's probably the only place I can think of where calculus might be useful. I hate it
I just compare total square footage, I don't think I've come across a pack that doesn't have it listed. Super easy, but am I missing something?
oh, it's not always listed in Canada
from superstore https://envs.sh/eyV.jpg
from Costco https://envs.sh/eyx.jpg
The Charmin at superstore and the Kirkland TP have total square meters....
I'm not sure if it's just web images are like that, and I can't say for sure it's always there on the physical package or not either.....I'll check next time I'm at a store
Do you have any sources regarding selling inferior versions of products? I've bought many things from Costco, from dining sets to sheds, and have always been happy with the quality. I'm sure they have Costco specific SKU's, and that might reflect different components on some items, but that doesn't mean they have a general practice of lowering quality. Indeed, I've always found them quick to stand by their products.
As far as bulk foods, I don't think people shop at Costco because it is cheapest, but because it is the best value. You tend to get better versions of things than other big box retailers, for prices lower than places like whole foods.
WinCo is great, and I did my weekly shopping there for 20 years, but they aren't really comparable to Costco. Better for shipping on a budget, yes, but not for truly bulk items like 25lb bags of flour or rice, or more mid-premium items like spirits, cheeses, and produce.
Edit: also, their muffins freeze really well since you need to buy 2 6-packs.
It's mainly personal experience. I used hot tubs as an example because I actually work for a company in that industry and we have attempted repairs on their spas. To be fair, though, Costco actually has gone through a handful of different manufacturers, so the ones they are selling now may not be as bad. I'd actually be surprised if they were still selling spas supported by EPS, since the company making them now is fairly reputable.
This store specific SKU thing isn't at all unique to Costco. A lot of "high tech" consumer stuff - TVs, computers, printers, etc. - tends to have these low cost SKUs that get sold at places like Amazon or Best Buy. The thing about it that bugs me about Costco is that they take it to extremes and add a number of other tricks to disorient you into thinking that you're getting a fabulous deal when you are arguably not. Other retailers do much of the same things, but none do it to the same scale as Costco. I'm not saying that good value doesn't exist there - their bakery is usually a pretty great example - but that they pull tricks to make people massively overestimate how good that value is.
Winco is absolutely not the same kind of thing as Costco. They don't sell eyeglasses, RVs, or vacation packages. But it's much more comparable within the things they do sell to Costco than Whole Foods is. I honestly don't understand why I keep seeing people saying things are cheap when compared to Whole Foods. Are people genuinely not aware that their products are wildly overpriced? In any case, Winco does indeed sell giant bags of grains (pretty much everything in their bulk bins are available in the original packaging if you ask, the most common of which are already on the floor). They also have a huge selection of cheese and produce; they actually have the best quality and price for produce in my area. I can't say how their spirits are though, since I don't drink.
I compared Costco to Winco because I think that for a lot of people Costco is basically a grocery store. But that's something I don't think that Costco is good at. They work well for foodservice companies, but I think that people end up eating really poorly when they shop at club stores like Costco because they are forced by time to consume their food quickly. Yes, you can freeze stuff, but my grandfather is the only person I know who shopped for food at one of them (Sam's Club in his case) and also owned a chest freezer to deal with the excess. And when you go shopping there, they do a lot to try to get you to buy unhealthy processed food; the fresh food is all the way in the opposite corner of the store, so you have to pass through what feels like half a mile of processed foods, of which they are constantly cooking and giving samples to entice you.
I think this is just a matter of different perspectives. I don't know anyone in my family or social group who do routine grocery shopping at Costco. Rather, it is bulk runs of select items, or targeted to things they do well at a lower price.
I picked whole foods, because when it comes to things like fresh fruit, fresh packed pasta, etc, Costco delivers similar quality at a lower price than whole foods.
The WinCo's I shopped at never had 25lb bags of rice. The largest bags they had out were 5lb. I shopped for a family of 5 on a $70/week budget at WinCo for years, and know the stores I shopped at like the back of my hand. Maybe others were different.
So if your only metric is, what is the least expensive way to acquire goods, then Costco is going to feel like a bad deal. Because that isn't what they are about. It's why they don't have any "cheap" yogurt; it's all cream top or Greek or in little cups with fruit. They carry slightly more premium products comparable to places like whole foods, at a lower price, and also squeeze in vacuum cleaners and appliances. But the typical Costco only has like 5,000 SKU's in a given store, which is small compared to stores like Walmart.
And the reason I'm sceptical about an ongoing trend of inferior products from Costco is that I simply haven't seen it reported on, and can't find any consumer site making similar claims. If true and systemic, that would be a huge scoop.
Edit:
I just checked my old WinCo vs Costco process for basmati rice, and Costco came in $3 cheaper for 25lbs when compared to WinCo's bulk prices.
Every time I went to Costco, at least 75% of other people's baskets were filled with food.
The appearance of quality is one of the big things that Costco does to give the impression of value. The fact that they don't have "cheap" yogurt is a negative, not a positive. I've never heard of cream top yogurt before, but greek yogurt and yogurt with fruit is not a premium commodity and can be found with the same general quality in discount stores. The thing that makes that yogurt premium is nothing more than the brand name on it.
There isn't much coverage about these products because in reality it's probably a tiny fraction of the items they sell, and it's not newsworthy because just about every major retailer does the same thing. But if you want to learn more, just look for yourself!
How about printers, for instance? Right now you can buy this Brother printer from them. But if you go to Brother's website they don't have that model listed. There is an MFC-L2750DW, but there's no B in that model. If you compare the specs between the two, they look exactly the same, but it's pretty obvious that Costco's website doesn't have the full specs, so you really have no way of knowing what the difference is between the two except that one comes bundled with a ream of paper.
If Costco can't get a customized cost-reduced product for whatever, then a common tactic they will do is to bundle stuff together. Take for instance this keyboard, which you can also buy on Amazon for about $10 less. When you look at this you might immediately think to yourself that for $10 you get a bunch of extras, but when you dig into what you're actually getting, you might realize that you don't actually need any of it, and if you do, you probably want better versions of it. That stand in particular is literally the cheapest keyboard stand you can buy, and as an owner of one I can tell you it's a wobbly mess. Long ago I bought a camera kit from them that came with a telephoto lens and a camera bag, and I rarely used the lens because it was better suited for sports photography and the bag only got used to store my equipment because even though it was excellent quality (it was an official Canon accessory) it was too damn bulky.
Sometimes it's not even clear if it's a customized product or if it's the same thing in a bundle. here's a good TV from Costco, and here is presumably the same TV from Best Buy, currently on sale for $50 less. The thing you are paying $50 for is an extended warranty - the thing that they try to sell to chumps. But it's still not the same TV. This isn't just a number that Costco put on it to indicate the bundle, either - it's an actual LG SKU.
But to reiterate, my problem with Costco is not really a lack of quality or value. It's a lack of transparancy and the mind games that they play with you to make you think that the quality and value is much better than they actually are. They may not be scamming you, but they're doing a lot to get you to spend more than you need to.
I find this such a strange take. Costco serves a niche. They aren't trying to be Walmart or Safeway or Giant. They are a club store with a specific value proposition, a target market, and they use advertising to appeal to that market.
You might find it a negative that they don't sell cheap yogurt, but their target market finds it as a positive. Yes, styles like Greek can be variable, but Greek gods, chobani, and brown cow are very different than yoplait. Costcos customers like that there is a set floor for quality that is higher than a typical box store.
As for bundling appliances, etc, it sounds like your complaint is people buying what they don't need, like that camera accessory bag you say is high quality but too bulky. But how is what Costco is doing uniquely deceptive?
We've moved from the claim that they systematically sell alternative inferior SKU's of common products, to some of their items aren't the best or sell for more because of an extended warranty. I mean, yeah, I don't but printers from Costco or extended warranties in general. But time and place utility is a thing, and some people value warranties more than I do.
So I am really just wondering why the Costco specific hate here when everything you describe is done, and worse, by other retailers? It really sounds like more of a general dislike of marketing.
Please note that I never said that Costco's SKUs were inferior, I merely stated that they were altered. Some of them are inferior.
I don't know how much more clearly I can communicate this, but the amount of misdirection and psychological trickery that Costco does is unrivaled. The closest analogue to them is Sam's Club, and they basically just copy what Costco does verbatim (except the part where they treat their workers well, notably). Yes, they are using tricks that other retailers use, but nobody else does all of them. Even the membership fee is part of it; they are currently on track to make $5bn a year on membership fees alone, before they even sell any goods. Their practices quite literally change people. Heck, just try saying something negative about them on the internet and see how quickly people will come to tell you you're wrong.
And sure, feel free to chop this up to a general dislike of marketing. Why is that a bad thing? Isn't it worse that we normalize corporations taking advantage of people just because it's common?
You have made multiple, vague, broad, and unsourced claims about their practices that in totality amount to the claim that they have a practice of using reduced quality SKU's. You also used hot tubs as a specific example in support of your more general claim.
And your comment goes on.
Making a general claim and then supporting it with a specific (uncorroborated) example is a classic structure to present an argument or position. I can't imagine what other position it would be presenting here than what I interpreted. You say Costco alters their appliances in a deceptive way to create the illusion of value. Then you say, this is best seen with hot tubs and give examples of modifications that lower the quality that would ruin the manufacturers reputation.
Many folks on the internet have a bad habit of nitpicking individual details of a comment to ignore it's main points. I try to avoid doing that by focusing on the takeaway of a comment. I can't imagine the takeaway here other than what I have said.
But what I'll end with here is what I feel is a paternalistic claim. Who says people shopping at Costco are being taken advantage of? Why are we assuming these people lack the competency to understand the value proposition they are receiving?
Value is subjective, but for a lot of people, they feel that they get good value from their purchases at Costco. If they didn't, they wouldn't go. I wouldn't tell someone they are wrong for not finding good value in Costco, and don't see how the claim can be supported the other way.
Sources, please. We are getting into conspiracy theory territory here. If Costco consistently alerted SKU's to sell junk, some gear teardown site somewhere would corroborate this. If Costco was some marketing manipulator mastermind, why haven't I seen news article on the subject where I've seen other articles of deceptive practices.
Frankly, I rarely even see emails or mail from Costco, let alone ads or other manipulative content. They literally just sit there, menacingly apparently, selling stuff people like. I get one quarterly mailer from them with the seasons deals. No gimmicky come in by Friday high pressure materials, etc.
So hate on marketing all you want, but you made the claim that Costco is the worst at deceptive practices, and have failed to corroborate that with anything other than your opinion. Which, whatever, it's your opinion and you are entitled to it. But others have theirs as well, and lacking any corroborating sources, you don't provide any reason others should accept your claim that they are literally the worst in the realm of deceptive practices.
You know what? I give up. Costco is godly, and I am wrong for having criticized them. I don't want to argue with you about things you are clearly so emotionally invested in.
It's ok to dislike Costco and it's ok to have a conversation that results in disagreement based on opinion.
It's also ok to ask for sources when someone makes a claim. There doesn't need to be a villain in every story.
I remember reading news stories about how Walmart has products made specifically for them to keep prices lower. (I think it was things like jeans and lawn mowers.)
I’m a little surprised to hear that Costco does it more. It seems like it would be hard to tell?
Of course for store brands, they can do what they like, and Costco has its own store brand. (Kirkland.) Most grocery stores do this. The part that’s a little dubious is using a well-known brand like Levi’s, but I think that’s up to the manufacturer how much they want to protect their brand. If the customer doesn’t notice then they might have positive feelings about the brand anyway?
When I was looking at Costco hearing aids, it was a different brand, but they were quite similar to specific models from certain other brands, with fewer features. They were probably made by the same factory. (I didn’t go with them, but I think it would be a decent choice for someone who wanted to save money more than I did.)
This is also something some Chinese manufacturers do, making a similar thing to what they already did for a well-known brand, but with a different brand on it, and sold cheaper. And they will also reduce product quality over time if the brand doesn’t have good QA to prevent it.
If it’s made in some foreign factory, the brand is really about having higher standards and good QA. Some companies care enough to do it, others are just a label. Brands are often less useful than it appears.
According to this article, there will be a multilevel underground garage.
That sounds expensive?
We have a few underground parking spots here in NL. Honestly, it can actually be quite useful urban planning wise. It leaves more space for buildings above ground. It can be expensive, but it's a very efficient usage of land.
It's not always an option but where it is it makes the city more compact and generally more walkable.
...i can't say much but: keep your eye on the scandinavian flat-pack industry...
...as ever, though, the bar to affordable housing isn't the houses, it's the land and infrastructure...
Cryptic clue about flat pack :)
Maybe the housing depends on where? I'm sitting on several acres of land that was practically free, with municipal sewer and electricity and water and road access but I can't get a quote for building even a small house for less than $300k. And yes there a lots of low income seniors who need affordable housing here.
Anyone else getting a security warning when trying to visit this link?
I didn’t. What kind of warning?
It's blocked on my work laptop. Looking closer, it looks like the IT department has added the domain to a blacklist of malicious websites. Peculiar.
Kirkland Estates!