26 votes

Digging in: Why don’t Americans eat mutton?

43 comments

  1. patience_limited
    Link
    I'm really surprised at how the article elides the impact of the U.S. Sheep Wars period. At one time, hundreds of thousands of sheep were being raised in the American West. Free-for-all grazing...

    I'm really surprised at how the article elides the impact of the U.S. Sheep Wars period. At one time, hundreds of thousands of sheep were being raised in the American West. Free-for-all grazing practices were ruining the range lands, and actual shooting wars broke out between sheep and cattle farmers. Cattle won out, and sheep farming never recovered.

    There's still a mythology that sheep are more damaging to grasslands than cattle because they uproot grass to feed, whereas cattle chew through stems and leave roots intact. The truth is, both sheep and cattle uproot grasses when the land is overgrazed and left with insufficient time to recover. U.S. grasslands are currently being degraded by cattle overgrazing.

    Sheep and goats can be beneficial for land management, because they'll eat fire-prone brush plants in ways that cattle won't. But it's simply more costly to keep moving herds to let the land recover.

    27 votes
  2. NaraVara
    Link
    I would love it if we started to shift over from the monopoly that beef has in general meat consumption in the US. Mutton is tasty and complex and, afaik, has a much lower carbon footprint than...

    I would love it if we started to shift over from the monopoly that beef has in general meat consumption in the US. Mutton is tasty and complex and, afaik, has a much lower carbon footprint than raising cattle for beef does. This is due to the ability to sheep to get more out of grazing per unit of land as well as the time it takes them to get to maturity.

    15 votes
  3. [2]
    R3qn65
    Link
    Interesting article! Personally I'm a big fan of mutton. Merguez is probably the application people are likely to be familiar with, but mutton curries are specactular. And I've made mutton...

    Interesting article!

    Personally I'm a big fan of mutton. Merguez is probably the application people are likely to be familiar with, but mutton curries are specactular. And I've made mutton (barbacoa) tacos that came out pretty well too.

    9 votes
    1. Captain_Wacky
      Link Parent
      There's also mutton BBQ with origins in Kentucky. With how big BBQ is in the US, I'm very surprised it hasn't gained traction outside of KY. Edit: heck, it was even in the article, how did I miss...

      There's also mutton BBQ with origins in Kentucky.

      With how big BBQ is in the US, I'm very surprised it hasn't gained traction outside of KY.

      Edit: heck, it was even in the article, how did I miss that?!

      7 votes
  4. [8]
    boxer_dogs_dance
    Link
    Interesting question. We are long past the era in which most people would use independent butcher shops all though there are still some catering to less universal tastes than the grocery store...

    Interesting question. We are long past the era in which most people would use independent butcher shops all though there are still some catering to less universal tastes than the grocery store will.

    I have purchased stewing hens at the farmers market from vendors whose primary business is eggs. When braised long enough, these are delicious with a rich flavor. But you would never find tough old meat like that at the grocery store. I suspect mutton faces a similar bias. Most people don't want to invest time to make tough meat more tender.

    9 votes
    1. [4]
      AugustusFerdinand
      Link Parent
      I think it's a factor of time + taste. North Americans have become extremely accustomed to only the most tender cuts of meat and expect them to taste like absolutely nothing. Chicken here is...

      I think it's a factor of time + taste.
      North Americans have become extremely accustomed to only the most tender cuts of meat and expect them to taste like absolutely nothing. Chicken here is flavorless, beef is flavorless, pork is flavorless. The cuts/ages that do have flavor are almost exclusively exported to countries that don't have such blank slate expectations.

      5 votes
      1. [2]
        boxer_dogs_dance
        Link Parent
        Hunters and their families and friends still like meat with taste But I hear you

        Hunters and their families and friends still like meat with taste

        But I hear you

        3 votes
        1. AugustusFerdinand
          Link Parent
          Of course, as do farmers and the people that buy their "aged out" livestock/meat products like your stewing hens and the retired dairy cow steaks I've had. But they are unfortunately few and far...

          Of course, as do farmers and the people that buy their "aged out" livestock/meat products like your stewing hens and the retired dairy cow steaks I've had. But they are unfortunately few and far between comparatively, the exception instead of the rule.
          People also don't like to chew on anything. Somehow jerky is a $9.5B industry, but can't get someone to spend more than three seconds chewing on a piece of meat without complaints about it being too tough...

          4 votes
      2. SloMoMonday
        Link Parent
        I thought I was crazy when I worked in the States and the proteins were all so bland. Even eggs, fish and most processed meats were lacking any depth of flavor and needed a ton of sauces or spice...

        I thought I was crazy when I worked in the States and the proteins were all so bland. Even eggs, fish and most processed meats were lacking any depth of flavor and needed a ton of sauces or spice to make up for it.

        The textures were also slightly off for me. Most meat turned to powder in my mouth and that felt a little off.

        I did get a lot of amazing fruits and vegetables, especially those from farmers markets. Also New York had some of the best pastry and pizza I've ever had.

        2 votes
    2. [3]
      patience_limited
      Link Parent
      The crazy thing is that most home cooks already have all they need to make old, fibrous meats tender - a slow cooker or Dutch oven. No tending required, just set a temperature, throw everything in...

      The crazy thing is that most home cooks already have all they need to make old, fibrous meats tender - a slow cooker or Dutch oven. No tending required, just set a temperature, throw everything in the pot with some liquid, and you've got a nice slow braise that will make the toughest meats fall apart.

      We can go into the local Mexican grocery and get all kinds of things that most American cooks don't touch - mutton, goat, lengua (beef tongue), shank, oxtail, far cheaper than from the twee craft butcher shop.

      4 votes
      1. [2]
        boxer_dogs_dance
        Link Parent
        Personally braised meat is among my favorite things to cook. A shoulder roast can be a beautiful thing.

        Personally braised meat is among my favorite things to cook. A shoulder roast can be a beautiful thing.

        2 votes
        1. greyfire
          Link Parent
          My two most-repeated recipes are pozole rojo with espinazo and a shoulder roast or loin, and citrus pulled pork with just the shoulder. Fantastic results. Tacos for everyone!

          My two most-repeated recipes are pozole rojo with espinazo and a shoulder roast or loin, and citrus pulled pork with just the shoulder. Fantastic results. Tacos for everyone!

          1 vote
  5. [7]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. R3qn65
      Link Parent
      I think the most likely answer is that the headline is "why don't Americans eat mutton?" so it's attracting people who are like "hey, I've wondered the same thing!"

      I think the most likely answer is that the headline is "why don't Americans eat mutton?" so it's attracting people who are like "hey, I've wondered the same thing!"

      10 votes
    2. dirthawker
      Link Parent
      I'm pretty sure everyone here understands lamb is different from mutton. Speaking for myself, I didn't grow up eating either, got a taste for lamb, and have enjoyed canned corned mutton. I've...

      I'm pretty sure everyone here understands lamb is different from mutton. Speaking for myself, I didn't grow up eating either, got a taste for lamb, and have enjoyed canned corned mutton. I've eaten game animals and like white pepper, so gamey flavors don't bother me. It seems perfectly reasonable to want to try fresh mutton.

      6 votes
    3. [2]
      patience_limited
      Link Parent
      If you use an ingredient in a cuisine that doesn't have experience or techniques to deal with its distinctive qualities, don't expect good results. The best mutton dishes I've had come from...

      If you use an ingredient in a cuisine that doesn't have experience or techniques to deal with its distinctive qualities, don't expect good results. The best mutton dishes I've had come from countries with a tradition of eating mutton - Mongolia, India, Afghanistan, Scotland. [There are certainly other places, like most African countries, but I haven't tried their mutton dishes yet.]

      One of the less appealing things about lamb/mutton is that the fat has a relatively high melting point and it can taste waxy even at human body temperature. It has to be trimmed carefully, fat drained or thoroughly mixed into slow-simmered, acidic sauces.

      4 votes
      1. NaraVara
        Link Parent
        In Afghanistan and South Asia we tend to cook it in a cream or yogurt based sauce which dissolves those fats.

        In Afghanistan and South Asia we tend to cook it in a cream or yogurt based sauce which dissolves those fats.

        2 votes
    4. [2]
      NaraVara
      Link Parent
      Even chefs are like this. I distinctly remember an episode of Chopped or one of these other competitive cooking shows where they slammed one of the chefs for her mutton being too chewy and she was...

      The reality I pretty much 100% experience is that people will say mutton tastes much too gamey and they won't touch it once they try it.

      Even chefs are like this. I distinctly remember an episode of Chopped or one of these other competitive cooking shows where they slammed one of the chefs for her mutton being too chewy and she was like "In Bangladesh that's how we like it!"

      1 vote
      1. R3qn65
        Link Parent
        Side note - that's why I really like when food competitions use judges like Andrew Zimmern. He can be a bit of a pretentious goof, but because he's so widely traveled he almost always knows what...

        Side note - that's why I really like when food competitions use judges like Andrew Zimmern. He can be a bit of a pretentious goof, but because he's so widely traveled he almost always knows what the weird (ingredient/dish) is supposed to taste like.

        4 votes
  6. [11]
    UntouchedWagons
    Link
    Canuck here, I'd like to try mutton - moose and deer also - but my dad and I really don't have the skill to make a good meal out of them except for maybe a stew.

    Canuck here, I'd like to try mutton - moose and deer also - but my dad and I really don't have the skill to make a good meal out of them except for maybe a stew.

    3 votes
    1. [3]
      NaraVara
      Link Parent
      Indian restaurants will usually have a mutton curry or biryani. Some fancy steakhouses will also have mutton chops, but usually it’s storied ones with a long history.

      Indian restaurants will usually have a mutton curry or biryani.

      Some fancy steakhouses will also have mutton chops, but usually it’s storied ones with a long history.

      5 votes
      1. dirthawker
        Link Parent
        Just an aside -- Indians use the word "mutton" rather broadly. Sometimes it's sheep, sometimes goat. Delicious either way. There's mixup In the US as well. One time I bought some a package labeled...

        Just an aside -- Indians use the word "mutton" rather broadly. Sometimes it's sheep, sometimes goat. Delicious either way. There's mixup In the US as well. One time I bought some a package labeled mutton at an Indian grocery here in the Bay Area, which turned out to be goat.

        5 votes
      2. MephTheCat
        Link Parent
        Not exactly the same, but there was a Jamaican restaurant near where I used to live and I ate their curried goat on a regular basis. It was absolutely delicious, and I would recommend trying it if...

        Not exactly the same, but there was a Jamaican restaurant near where I used to live and I ate their curried goat on a regular basis. It was absolutely delicious, and I would recommend trying it if you ever get the chance.

        3 votes
    2. R3qn65
      Link Parent
      A stew or stew-like preparation is kind of the way to go anyway, and mutton's not expensive, so... give it a shot!

      A stew or stew-like preparation is kind of the way to go anyway, and mutton's not expensive, so... give it a shot!

      1 vote
    3. [6]
      patience_limited
      Link Parent
      I've had elk, moose, deer, bear... the local hunters really do channel Jim Harrison. Elk and deer are pretty similar. Elk and venison can be cooked as steaks if handled properly, and they're much...

      I've had elk, moose, deer, bear... the local hunters really do channel Jim Harrison. Elk and deer are pretty similar. Elk and venison can be cooked as steaks if handled properly, and they're much better than beef.

      Moose is just chewy and dull. But bear is everything gamy that people hate about mutton, plus it's even greasier and a bit gelatinous. Bears are omnivores, and aren't above scavenging carrion. So I'm not enthusiastic about trying bear again.

      1 vote
      1. [5]
        sparksbet
        Link Parent
        Be careful with bear meat too -- those fuckers are full of parasites even when compared to other game meat. It's one of the most common ways people get trichinosis.

        Be careful with bear meat too -- those fuckers are full of parasites even when compared to other game meat. It's one of the most common ways people get trichinosis.

        3 votes
        1. [4]
          patience_limited
          Link Parent
          I had it cooked to all heck in a stew (prepared almost identically to a typical American beef stew) and it was still disgusting. I've come to the conclusion it's not okay to eat wild omnivores or...

          I had it cooked to all heck in a stew (prepared almost identically to a typical American beef stew) and it was still disgusting.

          I've come to the conclusion it's not okay to eat wild omnivores or carnivores. Their diets aren't microbiologically or toxicologically safe (top of the food chain) and the meat can be foul. And I'm mostly vegan these days anyway.

          1 vote
          1. sparksbet
            Link Parent
            Yeah I didn't know how dangerous wild game could be until I read about it online. I don't cook a ton of meat at home (more out of laziness than anything else) and when we do it's mostly pork...

            Yeah I didn't know how dangerous wild game could be until I read about it online. I don't cook a ton of meat at home (more out of laziness than anything else) and when we do it's mostly pork lately because that's the dominant meat where we live. I used to pretty much exclusively do chicken instead but pork is more forgiving ime.

            2 votes
          2. [2]
            NaraVara
            Link Parent
            In addition to the rotten meat in their diets, most of the ones around where humans live or camp are getting a decent amount of their calories from human garbage. Even the normal issues with...

            In addition to the rotten meat in their diets, most of the ones around where humans live or camp are getting a decent amount of their calories from human garbage. Even the normal issues with something high up on the trophic chain are exacerbated with them.

            2 votes
            1. patience_limited
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              I used to rationalize it as eating invasives or animals that lacked natural predators. Feral hogs, pythons, lionfish, etc. in Florida; deer, moose, and bear where I live now. On some of the lake...

              I used to rationalize it as eating invasives or animals that lacked natural predators. Feral hogs, pythons, lionfish, etc. in Florida; deer, moose, and bear where I live now. On some of the lake islands, moose, elk, and deer reproduce so freely they'll strip all the vegetation and starve to death en masse. Bears get bold enough to raid grocery store/restaurant garbage and bird feeders, and usually can't be rewilded successfully - they keep coming back to where they know food exists. So I'm not averse to seeing them hunted. But I don't think it's safe to consume wild game anymore, especially since deer and elk have been found to carry spongiform encephalopathy prions.

              And back to the original thread, sheep and goats (and cows) carry spongiform encephalopathy prions as well. Short of knowing that the animals have been carefully butchered to avoid all neural and lymphatic tissue, I'm just as happy to avoid meat consumption on a regular basis (in addition to the environmental and ethical concerns).

              1 vote
  7. [11]
    Asinine
    Link
    Mutton is amazing, and yes I wish the US wasn't so beef-centric. Also wish we could incorporate more duck and goose without the former only being an option at Chinese restaurants or the latter...

    Mutton is amazing, and yes I wish the US wasn't so beef-centric. Also wish we could incorporate more duck and goose without the former only being an option at Chinese restaurants or the latter only being sung about in old English Christmas carols.
    But, lobbyists... :(

    3 votes
    1. [4]
      boxer_dogs_dance
      Link Parent
      I have found duck and goose at restaurant supply stores at reasonable prices. Also ducks are hunted and some rural butchers sell game

      I have found duck and goose at restaurant supply stores at reasonable prices.
      Also ducks are hunted and some rural butchers sell game

      8 votes
      1. [2]
        asteroid
        Link Parent
        When I travel to Europe, I'm bemused by how often they serve duck and venison. Duck is on restaurant menus far more often than chicken is! The high-end grocery stores near me carry duck and goose,...

        When I travel to Europe, I'm bemused by how often they serve duck and venison. Duck is on restaurant menus far more often than chicken is!

        The high-end grocery stores near me carry duck and goose, but only frozen... and expensive. There's a Chinese grocery store (alas, a hour's drive away) that has fresh duck at reasonable prices.

        ...You can have lamb and mutton. I've no objection, just don't care for it. But I'd eat duck once a week if I could afford it.

        2 votes
        1. Habituallytired
          Link Parent
          Around here, the Asian grocery stores have figured out that they can charge as much as anywhere else for the protein sources westerners can't generally get. It's sad that it's become more...

          Around here, the Asian grocery stores have figured out that they can charge as much as anywhere else for the protein sources westerners can't generally get. It's sad that it's become more expensive, but I get it given how expensive it is to be in the Bay Area.

          2 votes
      2. Asinine
        Link Parent
        I can sometimes get a frozen duck for $15-$20, which isn't bad. Just wish that it was more common.

        I can sometimes get a frozen duck for $15-$20, which isn't bad. Just wish that it was more common.

    2. patience_limited
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      If you live in an area with significant Caribbean settlement (South Florida and parts of the southern U.S.), you'll find goat and "ram goat" widely available for sale in specialty groceries. "Ram...

      If you live in an area with significant Caribbean settlement (South Florida and parts of the southern U.S.), you'll find goat and "ram goat" widely available for sale in specialty groceries. "Ram goat" is actually mutton, and it's quite good in Caribbean curries. There's a roti place I still miss that did a terrific mutton curry roti.

      Latin groceries often carry cabron, or young goat meat.

      Chinese groceries carry duck, usually frozen Muscovy, and I've seen whole duck and goose for sale in large U.S. grocery chains around the holidays. They're not factory-farmed, so availability isn't year-round.

      Frozen duck breast is generally available in grocery stores at a steep premium, though as /u/boxer_dogs_dance mentioned, restaurant supply stores are your best bet.

      6 votes
    3. [5]
      Habituallytired
      Link Parent
      Duck is easily my favorite protein. It's a shame it isn't reasonably priced around here unless I want to get it frozen. It's also harder to convince my husband to eat more "gamey" meats so we tend...

      Duck is easily my favorite protein. It's a shame it isn't reasonably priced around here unless I want to get it frozen. It's also harder to convince my husband to eat more "gamey" meats so we tend to stick to chicken when we cook meat at home.

      3 votes
      1. [4]
        boxer_dogs_dance
        Link Parent
        This is why when I eat thai food or certain kinds of chinese I frequently order duck. It's not much more per plate. But, if I undertood right that you are in the Bay Area, there are restaurant...

        This is why when I eat thai food or certain kinds of chinese I frequently order duck. It's not much more per plate.

        But, if I undertood right that you are in the Bay Area, there are restaurant supply places to check out

        1 vote
        1. [3]
          Habituallytired
          Link Parent
          I've never gotten to any restaurant supply stores! I'll have to go check some out. I forget they exist, tbh.

          I've never gotten to any restaurant supply stores! I'll have to go check some out. I forget they exist, tbh.

          1. [2]
            boxer_dogs_dance
            Link Parent
            I explored options during the pandemic lol. In addition to duck, I also found tubs of tasty curry paste to mix with coconut milk

            I explored options during the pandemic lol.
            In addition to duck, I also found tubs of tasty curry paste to mix with coconut milk

            1. Habituallytired
              Link Parent
              ooohhh nice! Thai Green cury duck sounds really good right about now.

              ooohhh nice!

              Thai Green cury duck sounds really good right about now.

  8. Tigress
    Link
    Judging from the article I will never miss mutton cause I already hate the taste of lamb (I only like it if that distinct aftertaste it has is very mild). And mutton is a stronger taste of what I...

    Judging from the article I will never miss mutton cause I already hate the taste of lamb (I only like it if that distinct aftertaste it has is very mild). And mutton is a stronger taste of what I already dislike about lamb.

    Too bad cause I always like the sound of mutton chops and mutton when I read it in the book (the way it is always described always makes it sound yummy).

    2 votes
  9. [2]
    Nijuu
    Link
    Never tried mutton myself. Not that its really offered here (Australia). We gave a lot of sheep but we seem to use them more for wool or gear made out of their skin than meat (no idea where it...

    Never tried mutton myself. Not that its really offered here (Australia). We gave a lot of sheep but we seem to use them more for wool or gear made out of their skin than meat (no idea where it goes). We do however eat lamb when its in season. Its nice but.. Expensive !!!!!!

    1 vote
    1. PuddleOfKittens
      Link Parent
      Lamb used to be much cheaper here, IIRC. That's why restaurants switched from Mongolian lamb to Mongolian beef, IIRC.

      Lamb used to be much cheaper here, IIRC. That's why restaurants switched from Mongolian lamb to Mongolian beef, IIRC.

      1 vote