How to deal with a deep-rooted feeling of apathy?
My mind is way annoying to listen to and I don’t like it!
I'm 45 years old and I have a hard time coming to term with the fact that the majority of my life---the one which supposedly should had been my golden years---lies in the past. I know I'm still alive but I just can't drum up much enthutiasm for an existence which I mostly see as sad leftovers of something which wasn't worth much either. I simply don't care much. I can distract myself for some time, but I have this deep feeling that, well, what's the point.
And I can ignore it, for some time. But ignorence can only go so far. At some point you need some hope, some sliver of meaning and purpose. And I just don't see it.
And this is all awful impractical, because whenever I try to strive for anything, my brain just goes, “narh, why bother struggle when it doesn’t lead to anything”
Is there any clever way to turn stuff like this around? Some NLP stuff to nudge me towards a less self-defeating mindset?
Clinical psychologist and former therapist here. I have a thought, offered in a non-professional capacity. What I suggest is not NLP but it does rely on small, approachable steps, and a self-nudge over the hump.
The plan:
(1) Set an alarm on your phone (if you have one), to give you 5 minutes to yourself before getting out of bed. Do this now, then read the next step.
(2) Have a notepad and pen (or even your phone) within reach when you go to sleep.
(3) Every day when the alarm goes off, take up to 5 minutes to yourself and write down something you are grateful for.
If you write more, great, and if not, great. If you can't come up with one, do seek professional help. If you can come up with one, repeat again the next day. Try to bump up the number over the days and weeks. If you can't, that's okay too. It can even be the same entry every day for as long as you need. Also, this isn't a running list that you add to each day. It's a distinct list for each day, even if the lists stay identical across days sometimes.
That's your nudge, and it's the whole plan. If it helps you stick to it, you can tell yourself it's your medicine. You don't have to understand how it might help, you just have to do it. Thinking about why it might help is encouraged. Thinking about why it might not help is just your current stuck self finding a reason to stay stuck. We're annoying that way.
It's a safe, simple, and effective self-intervention over time. If you don't see a change after a month or two, you've lost nothing. You do have to tailor it to your own situation if, for example, you absolutely have to get out of bed immediately for physical reasons.
I hope you're down to try it. If you do, I'm sure we'd love to hear how it goes.
Heck, I'll give it a try. I heard folks talking about being "grateful" before, and as an atheist, it just felt like it didn't make all that much sense, because I don't have any deity to be grateful to. Should I be feeling grateful to the coffee machine for making coffee, what?
So anyways, I gave it a go. Here's todays result:
-- Got freebie advice from a pro, thats nice
-- Don't entirely dislike my handwriting
-- That shitty politican giving people AIDS died last year
-- Hey, the weather's not bad, maybe I shoud go swimming
-- Okay my handwriting IS pretty bad, but at least I can read it
-- Five minutes gone, don't have to come up with more
I like it. I'm like the freakin' OVERLORD of positive thinking and mindfulness! In all seriousness, propagating for a positive vibe at the start of the day is something I imagine could work.
You can try beeing grateful for what you appreciate. Do you enjoy the smell of the coffee? "Whoa dude, I'm so grateful this coffee smells so great, I wonder where it was picked up and how much care went into it for me to be able to drink it. Modern society is amazing!" For example, if the coffee machine worked flawlessly and a bit faster and in a cleaner manner than usual: "man, modern engineering is simply amazing, so grateful for this, just look, push push and great tasty coffee out the nozzles!"
That shitty politican giving people AIDS died last yearhaha, I laughed out loud.Be grateful for the efforts you put in to have those things.
Be grateful to yourself for trudging through the days, and carving a little bit of comfort for yourself.
It can be that cup of coffee in the morning, or simply having the few moments of contemplation for it.
As an atheist, I struggled with this also. I began by being grateful that for whatever reason I am able to enjoy or appreciate things. For me there doesn't have to be a who am I grateful towards, but sometimes I am grateful towards me, that I allow mind to wander into the good things around me.
What’s the benefit to it being first thing in the morning vs another time of day? Is it that you (hopefully) carry that sense of gratitude through the day?
Since my kids could talk we’ve played the “happy game” where we each talk about something that made us especially happy that day, even if it’s just “my dinner was really delicious”, at bedtime (although not every single day). I started the game when they were small because I wasn’t very happy myself, and I wanted to help them build this kind of gratitude. I hope I’m not lessening the impact by doing it right before they go to sleep!
Why not add a “what are we excited about for today?” in the morning? Double the positivity.
Positivity first thing in the day sets the tone.
Maybe not as immediately, but eventually it sets a standard.
Being positive first thing in the day sets a precedent for the rest of the day.
I'm almost 37 and feel the same way from time to time. Seeing people who are part of my life getting old or passing away does not help either.
The nostalgia hits hard almost every day, but when I ask myself if I really want to go back to those times the answer is always no.
I like my life right now with my SO in our house. I miss getting shitfaced with my close friends at our regular bar (the owner is 80 yo now and still there) but we still do that once a month so it is better because my body can't handle much of that lifestyle anymore.
I don't know. I'm pretty content playing guitar, lifting weights and hanging around with my dogs and SO watching movies.
My brother passed away 4 months ago and it hit me pretty hard. I am recovering, but there are days that I cry and life feels bleak and just pure suffering.
So it's been a rollercoaster for me these days with some ups and lots of downs due to his passing.
Sorry, I just talked about myself. I don't really have much to offer since I'm younger. Hope you can find your way through this.
The feeling of uselessness in our work is due to alienation.
I'm a similar age and I feel similar. I still strive and work hard, because I need and like money, but there's not much importance to what I do, no real point. I will say, though, that in my 40s I've moved into a second career, or rather... returned to an old career but with a different view. I was in IT, now I'm a developer. Between those I followed my dreams with an art career for a long time. So I went for it, I lived that dream, and it was fun for a while, but then it just became tedious, and the money wasn't there, so on and so on. Suffice it to say, I'm on a new career track, so that's helpful in maintaining my growth as a person.
But at the end of the day, I know none of it really matters. Because it really doesn't. However, that doesn't mean you can't have fun. It's just a ride. You can do what you want. If you haven't saddled yourself with a bunch of responsibilities, you can change and do exciting stuff and explore and seek. Maybe not instantly, but you can start moving toward some new adventure today. It's just little choices you have to make every day. Even if you have some hard to untangle responsibilities, if you don't want them, you can start untangling today.
I guess you just have to figure out what you want. Like, what do you really want? Be honest with yourself. And I don't buy, "I don't want anything." Because even if you want to squash all your desires, jettison your wants, and be a monk, that's still something that you want, something to strive for. Maybe the thing you want is scary and you've pushed it down because it would cause you a lot of turmoil. But if you don't go after it, you're going to continue feeling blah. You've only got this one go on the ride.
Still, nothing really matters, except treating people nice and trying to minimize the harm you do. But that doesn't mean you can't have fun. So what kind of fun are you looking for?
If someone is only going to have two things that matter, I don't know if these would be the things.
What would you propose instead?
I think your post was pretty spot on, excepting only those two mentions.
None of it really matters, figure out your own goals, probably figure out how to make more money.
All good points. Except the part where even though nothing matters, these couple things that serve others do matter. Too arbitrary for me is all.
I feel the same way as the person you're responding to, but I'm not sure whether I can put the "why" into words. I'll give it a try.
The only thing I have is my experience. And that experience is sometimes incredibly painful. I assume other people and animals have some inner experience too, and at times their experiences are also painful. I know how bad it can feel to suffer, and I don't want that experience for myself or for anyone else.
If some action I take makes someone suffer more than they would have otherwise, at a very deep level, this just feels horrible to me. To think someone would be happier if they hadn't met me immediately brings up feelings of sadness and shame.
On a more positive note, if I can make someone happier, there's a good chance I'm improving the inner experience of not just them but lots of people, because that person might go out and make someone else a little happier, and you get a wonderful chain reaction.
I guess it all comes down to just a foundational belief that a life (even if it isn't yours) with less suffering is a good thing.
I do believe that less suffering is good.
I have had my ups and downs like a lot of people, and I've had times where I feel good about things and have a direction and some semblance that going through whatever motions I am going through are generally worthwhile.
I've also had times where I'm not so sure. Times where I think about how none of this really matters and the motions are more of a struggle.
I've just never had times where I think none of this matters except that I be nice to people. That sounds worse to me than just plain old none of this matters. I hope people who are in that place are doing ok.
For what it's worth, it doesn't feel worse/bad to me. It gives me something to value, something to care about in moments when I realize how meaningless everything is. That gives me some joy in what would otherwise feel just empty.
I personally lean into it. Life is absurd, so live absurdly. Try new things that are or might be recklessly "probably not your thing but you've never tried before".
Unfortunately, to me at least, there isn't anything but yourself that will make you feel differently (other than drugs - which might be worth a try too as it's on my list to do more psychedelics in my lifetime)
I am almost 40 and only recently got diagnosed with major depressive disorder. There is a lot of apathy and numbness wired into my brain from an emotionally turbulent childhood, and it is hard to see that it is my own brain fog and not a reflection of reality. And sometimes I have to provide myself proof that change happens and things get better.
Do you journal? Are you pursuing any goals? What new skills or knowledge are you studying? Start documenting what you do. Record your progress (in video, picture, or written form) and look back every 3, 6, 12 months. I can only see my progress when I compare before and now side by side. I try to set reasonable, short term goals and can get easily side tracked, but I feel the change when I can pull up the proof that things are better. And it keeps me going. The change we make isn't huge and dramatic, but small, incremental, and impacts a closer circle of friends and strangers.
@Halfdan In addition to Freudianslipservice's advice, I would recommend that you get evaluated by a medical professional. Just in case. The nature of your apathy and hopelessness sounds like it's becoming entrenched in your daily life. You might be fighting a battle that goes further than trying to have a positive mindset. Have you read this comic before? Maybe you can relate to some of it. Page 1, Page 2
"Numbness". There's another of those words which could have gone into my OP. I think depression is mostly associated with feeling really REALLY down. If you're just not feeling, then it's less recognized, and also a bit harder to put into word. (I have found a book "Numb: Find Healing In Feeling" which I think addresses this, but hadn't come all that far in it.)
Keeping a journal of every small step of my progress sound helpful at seeing myself as less stuck. I think I'll give it a try. In addition to this, the book Atomic Habbit advices you to focus less on goals (which brings you down, because you're still not there, and when you finally is, it's kinda anticlimatic) and instead focus on your identity ("I'm a person who play the piano", "I'm a student of the Japanese language", "I'm a VR workout freak")
My depression also manifests as a complete brain slow down, like I am trudging through mud to come up with words or replies. If you are connecting with these symptoms, definitely seek out help from a professional. All these little tips - exercise, journalling, socializing with people, getting outside - help in the short term, but having someone with better perspective and knowledge helped me get to a better long term headspace.
I'm younger, but I've found myself entering this loop from time to time when things don't seem to be moving. What helps me is breaking down what I think I actually need to be happy. I've got my music, my coffee, a decent bed, a hot shower, and usually someone to talk to if I wanted to. I think so long as I have those things I could tick along forever, and I'd certainly miss them if they were gone.
I know 'focus on the little things' is a bit of a cliche at this point, but I think the important aspect is that each little thing is different to each person. Once you figure those out, I find it becomes easier to focus on those as goals, and to start working on keeping them closer. One day they will be gone, but at least for now today isn't that day.
So, define the more humble aspects of your life which make you feel grounded and content, and focus on those, learning to truly appreciate them. Thanks, that's a pretty good approach!
Hopefully someone smarter and more responsible than me will come in here and give you more legit advice. Like probably therapy?
But honestly my first thought was, have you used cannabis lately? I discovered in my 40s that it really suits me well at this age. When I was young I tried it a few times and didn't really get the appeal. But at 40 I found it gave me back some of the curiosity and excitement I had lost from my youth.
On a weekend after all my chores and responsibilities are taken care of, I'll get high and make life plans and research things. I found myself going on random Wikipedia deep dives (which I hadn't done in a decade at least, but used to do all the time when I was younger) and being just in awe of how many interesting things there are in the world. Even days later when the THC is long gone I find I still have excitement and drive for a lot of the things I was thinking about while high
Everyone is different, and I don't want to start anything that could be an negative addiction for you. If you are seriously depressed it's probably better to do the therapy thing first. But if this is a more casual need for a spark, it might help. For me, I found there are diminishing returns on the benefits. There are negatives, and they can start stacking up and outweighing them if I use cannabis more than 3-4 times a week. But somewhere around there is a great balance that keeps me focused and excited for life.
Interesting. Personally, my few experimences with cannabis is that I just sit paralyzed and stare into empty space, and well, I can do that perfectly fine without help. But may give it another chance.
Couch lock. I've gotten it before too. For me that means I did too much. Modern cannabis is very potent and tolerance is a huge factor. If you haven't used it in awhile I would start with one puff, wait 20 minutes. Then repeat if necessary.
I’m older, and very much there with you. What is the point? I’m not sure. I feel like I took my swing at a successful life and missed wildly and now what do I have? Not much, and less than I used to.
I have lost most hope, and consider this progress. Hope is the opposite of acceptance for me. And, the adage resonates for me, all hope is false hope.
At this age, dreams also seem pointless, and unattainable. Goals that seem unattainable seem pointless and unsatisfactory.
What am I left with? I don’t know. The main intellectual reason I don’t check out is a smidgeon of humility-there is more going on than I can perceive, and my continued existence may have some meaning yet.
In the meantime, we can have a smirking chuckle at this great expression of truth national lampoon via youtube nsfw
I can't offer anything concrete, except to say that we see you here and notice your existence. Thank you for contributing.
I'm in my 50's and I am attempting a career change. It aint over until it's over.
Best wishes.
If you are going to suggest a gender, I am going to point out that it is ma'am lol.
Teaching and social work are both challenging, but can do a lot of good.
My intent is to leave law and become a librarian.
Relax. : )
Wishing better things for both of us.
This isn't apathy, it's despair.
The solution to despair is to turn to things you find meaningful, or perhaps to find something new.
If you feel that you cannot do anything to affect the trajectory of your own life, why not try to make a positive affect on someone else's life? Help out some friends who you know are struggling. And if you don't know anyone you can help, consider volunteering with a charitable organization.
It's times like this that I generally turn to introspection, but that's not something I can recommend to anyone because there is productive introspection and regressive introspection. Sometimes when looking within, we find ourselves getting stuck in loops that end up hurting us more and cause us to retreat and hide away from the world. It sounds like you might even be stuck in one of those loops right now. Remember that the goal is to be a sociable person; you want to be the kind of person who can go out with a group of friends for an activity and come back with memories of the great fun you had. I'm not recommending you try to escape your feelings, I'm suggesting you do activities to help you reframe the things that are making you feel so bad.
There’s some good advice here. But I think it’s also important to get back to basics. Most of us don’t have healthy lifestyles, which makes us feel crummy and creates a feedback loop. Make sure you’re getting 30 minutes of aerobic exercise everyday, make sure you get your 8 hrs of sleep at night, drink lots of water, avoid alcohol, cut out junk food, eat healthy . Even if you don’t feel like, hell especially if you don’t feel like it, force yourself to do those things. Give it a try for 30 days and see how you feel.
Couldn't agree more. When I'm feeling shitty it's almost always because I'm treating myself shitty. Problem is (imho) living a healthy lifestyle is boring. So I ebb and flow.
I personally always felt that exercise was the most boring things ever. However, this changed when I got into VR and tried out cardio games like The Thrill of the Fight, Beat Saber, Blaston and Hot Squat. For me, it doesn't feel like exercise as much as it feels like gaming.
Have you read any philosophy at all? I've struggled with this question in the past before I found myself grounded in a better philosophical place.
Anyone who says their best lives are behind them must be dying in the present in my opinion. Think about many actors and scientists. Many breakthroughs weren't made until later in life. Look at Jonathan Banks as an example. He was in movies like like Airplane and Beverly Hills Cop and then disappeared for 40 years, now in his 70s got a hit role as Mike Ehrmantraut for which he was made super famous for. Sometimes, our best lives lie ahead of us, but we just don't know it yet and need to live in the present.
The advice about practicing daily gratitude is amazing and 100% spot on. Gratitude leads to humility and fosters passion, and passion fuels purpose. As social creatures purpose is immensely part of our identity and feeling purposeless leads to lack of self-worth and depression.
The trick is to know that purpose is man-made - you get to choose your direction; purpose isn't assigned to you. This is empowering. Don't conflate "fleeting" with "unimportant".
Life is a beautiful sand mandala, you get some time to make it even more beautiful for others that share your time with it.
On a very practical level, I suggest getting a pet from the spca. Kittens or a puppy just fill you with delight. They will get you to play, snuggle, care for them. You’ll feel their love and love them back. (Dogs are also great because you’ll get out every day to walk them, and meet your neighbors on the block and the dog park.) It’s one of those things that’s bigger of a positive life change than I can explain in words.
Another thing that has an immediate impact - get out in nature. Just sit in a park, stroll on the beach, take a little walk in the winds, and then take longer hikes. The trees, the water, the wind, the birds - they will all get your mind to a better place.
Aside from that, I would try to change your mindset that pre-40 is the “golden years.” One of my idols is Georgia O’Keefe. She produced art until her 90s, and every decade she gained more control over her art and personal life. Her most golden, happy, and artistically satisfying years were her final years. So, when my life feels ‘over’, I remind myself to be patient, and to be open to the new and different options around me. Draw, read, listen to ska, take up Zumba, take a risk to try something new.
I'm only 31, but I've already found that it helps me a lot to spend time with older friends or mentors who are living healthy, full lives.
Although aging sometimes scares me for health reasons, I'm not worried about being 47 someday when it comes to living a fulfilling life, because I have friends who are 47 who go on challenging backpacking trips, enjoy music festivals, and just generally have fun in their lives. (Really, it's just all the stuff I already do now, so I know that if I wanted it to, my life could be very similar to what it is now.) And one of those friends in their 40s didn't even start doing these kinds of activities until she was past her 30s, so I know it's not too late to try new things. At work I have good relationships with people in their 40s, 50s, and 60s who help me see what the future of my career could look like, as well as what they do outside of work - partying in Mexico, road tripping around the US to find rare vintage records, making art, mentoring young kids, etc.
Basically, I know enough cool old people to realize that my life being boring vs. exciting is a choice that I can make. Now, I'm not saying that mental health is just a "choice" you can make, which is a whole separate problem, I'm just commenting on the age element of this conversation. And in general, the people I surround myself with tend to have a significant impact on my mental health and mood, whether they are my age or older.
I just want to point out that you are at an age where dopamine levels naturally start a significant decline. You might try doing some research on that.
I hesitate to recommend this lecture series because of how polarising the prof is. But I found Maps of Meaning enlightening. It's about stories passed through cultures have embedded information about how to live meaningfully.