42 votes

As a cis het white male, how do I better understand trans and trans issues?

I'm pretty high on the cis het side of the scale, but I'm an understanding and individual freedom loving person. I believe "to each their own" and support that strongly.

I'm an elder millennial. While we used LGB slurs casually, I never really meant them as slurs against the community. It's just how my peers spoke. Trans was never on my radar at the time. (Maybe a little, but I figured it was much rarer than it appears to be)

Homosexuality was always easy for me to understand. From a particular instance: "Do you like girls, Jackie? (Nod). Me too. That's cool." End of need to understand. Plus it was about a butt, and a butt is pretty sex/gender nonspecific.

I also always felt honored when people came out to me.

I just feel like I'm having trouble empathizing with trans individuals. I cannot imagine myself in that position like I can with homosexual or asexual individuals. The pronoun thing also wracks my brain. I'm more accepting of "they" as an object, but "they" as a subject for an individual feels so horrid to me.

First and foremost, I don't personally know anyone trans. I'm not sure how to change that without being weird.

Thanks for your support in my learning!

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36 comments

  1. [4]
    Thrabalen
    Link
    Well, firstly, hi, I'm Thrabalen, or just Balen works as a nickname. Now you know a trans individual! How to understand trans... this is something even we struggle with, is how to explain this....

    Well, firstly, hi, I'm Thrabalen, or just Balen works as a nickname. Now you know a trans individual!

    How to understand trans... this is something even we struggle with, is how to explain this. The best way I've personally come up with is this: imagine waking up, and the face in the mirror isn't you. It's recognizable, everyone knows it's "your" face, but you know it's wrong in a very real sense. It's kind of a 24/7 "imposter syndrome", only you know the real you isn't the imposter, it's this false flesh the world sees.

    It's a rough glimpse, to be sure, but it's a start.

    31 votes
    1. [3]
      grumble
      Link Parent
      Thanks Internet friend! That's a nice start. I have some more (probably) controversial questions though. That's for later. How can I best expose my child to the trans world? I was really happy...

      Thanks Internet friend! That's a nice start. I have some more (probably) controversial questions though. That's for later.

      How can I best expose my child to the trans world? I was really happy when we were at the children's museum and a gay couple identified themselves as such. It was so nice to see his wheels turning and then "getting it". As a dad joke fan, that was rife with opportunity.

      12 votes
      1. [2]
        X08
        Link Parent
        You could read inclusive books to your child if they're in that age. Stories about men being with men, women being with women and all other flavors of relationships and genders. I don't have some...

        You could read inclusive books to your child if they're in that age. Stories about men being with men, women being with women and all other flavors of relationships and genders. I don't have some concrete examples of books as I'm not a native to English children's literature.

        Movies certainly help and thankfully a lot of animated movies are seeing improvements on inclusivity in general. Movies like Nimona (Netflix) bend stereotypes very well.

        11 votes
        1. amerikiwi
          Link Parent
          There's a short story collection called Proud that's really good for this. I've used ones from there in 8th grade English, but some of the stories work for a few years in either side of that. The...

          There's a short story collection called Proud that's really good for this. I've used ones from there in 8th grade English, but some of the stories work for a few years in either side of that. The opening story about penguins is great for any ages. There are some stories about trans individuals as well.

          3 votes
  2. [5]
    Evie
    (edited )
    Link
    Best way is to talk to trans people and get to know them (in person if possible), I guess, but you're right that it's hard. I know a lot of trans people, myself included, who are increasingly wary...

    Best way is to talk to trans people and get to know them (in person if possible), I guess, but you're right that it's hard. I know a lot of trans people, myself included, who are increasingly wary of cis people, avoiding going out in public, etc. Probably the starting problem you and most cis people have, though, is that the "feeling" of transness, of identifying with a specific gender or feeling like you belong to a gender that is not the one you were assigned, is a feeling that most cis people just don't have. This is due to something called the "transparency phenomenon;" you've never really had to think about your gender identity in the same way we trans people have because it's probably never felt that wrong to you, so you're not even really aware of it.

    Kids develop a sense of their gender around 3-4 years old, about the same time they start forming memories, so you've always felt like a man and never really had to strain against that. For trans people, the opposite is true. We've, often for our entire living memory, felt this kind of discomfited disconnect with our bodies and what society expects of us because of them. I've heard it described by some trans people as having a pebble stuck in your shoe forever; for me, it was just this feeling that everything to do with gender roles was harder for me than it was for my peers. I went clothing shopping when I was six with my mom and I remember crying in the changing room because she wanted me to try on this t-shirt with a snarling panther on it, and not knowing why it was so hard for me. Or, when I started high school, shaving my legs even though the other guys in my gym class made fun of me, because having body hair just felt so awful for reasons I couldn't explain. And me giving you memories like this doesn't really come close to capturing "the feeling," because it makes it seem like my transness is constructed out of a chain of isolated incidents, instead of the constant static of having my head set to the wrong channel. But there it is; it's impossible to really describe to someone who hasn't experienced it.

    If you have any questions about trans people (even ones that you feel would be awkward or inappropriate to ask), I'm not a representative sample, but feel free to ask here or in my DMs.

    27 votes
    1. [2]
      C-Cab
      Link Parent
      I have a question that relates to your specific experience but I think also connects to trans people at large and the social construction of gender. This is a big hypothetical and I'm just rolling...

      I have a question that relates to your specific experience but I think also connects to trans people at large and the social construction of gender. This is a big hypothetical and I'm just rolling this question around in my head so if this is insensitive or too academic please let me know.

      Thinking about your revulsion with body/leg hair and some of the clothes that your parents pressured you to wear, do you think your experience would've been different if the assumed gender presentations were different? For instance, it's becoming more common for women to not shave their legs (or maybe it's just the circles I run in). Do you think if you saw that having leg hair was associated with the experience of being a woman (or at least wasn't exclusive to men), that you would still have those feelings? I'm wondering about how much of our ideas about gender our imprinted during those developmental years.

      12 votes
      1. Evie
        Link Parent
        No for sure, I think it's pretty much undeniable that the way gender is socially constructed has warped my beliefs about what I should like and how I should behave. I saw that women around me...

        No for sure, I think it's pretty much undeniable that the way gender is socially constructed has warped my beliefs about what I should like and how I should behave. I saw that women around me didn't have leg hair, and because, deep down inside, I saw myself as a woman, I wanted to be like them, even if I didn't understand why at the time. It's one reason why some trans men and women choose to embody kind of stereotypical depictions of their gender, hypermasculinity or hyperfemininity: because they are replicating, consciously or not what society has told them men and women are "supposed" to be like. Our internal sense of gender does not contain all of the nuances and expectations and behavioral standards that society has constructed around gender; instead, we unconsciously apply them to ourselves based on which set of traits we feel more closely aligned with.

        14 votes
    2. merry-cherry
      Link Parent
      The main issue with "getting to know a trans person" is that there's really no reasonable way to use them as a resource. Realistically, what every trans person wants is to be just accepted as...

      The main issue with "getting to know a trans person" is that there's really no reasonable way to use them as a resource. Realistically, what every trans person wants is to be just accepted as normal. You wouldn't really go interrogating most people about how they feel about their penis, so doing that to a trans person is just going to make them uncomfortable. Sure, you'll likely know more about a person's troubles if they're a close friend, especially if you were friends pre transition; but digging into light acquaintances is only going to freak them out. You could befriend them deeper but it's a bit fetishistic if the main reason you want to get closer to an individual is because they are trans.

      I can't think of a better way for non-trans people to satisfy their curiosity than a public forum. Yes it misses the human touch, but at least the people answering here have prepared themselves for the questioning and are ready to open their lives a bit.

      12 votes
    3. grumble
      Link Parent
      Thanks this strikes a lot of feelings for me. I've got a long way to go, but this is really helpful.

      Thanks this strikes a lot of feelings for me. I've got a long way to go, but this is really helpful.

      11 votes
  3. [3]
    Pioneer
    Link
    I'm 35, I don't quite 'get it' myself. But I recognised a few years back that I don't have to, it's not about me. It's about them. They're not hurting anyone, they're not damaging themselves, They...

    I just feel like I'm having trouble empathizing with trans individuals. I cannot imagine myself in that position like I can with homosexual or asexual individuals. The pronoun thing also wracks my brain. I'm more accepting of "they" as an object, but "they" as a subject for an individual feels so horrid to me.

    I'm 35, I don't quite 'get it' myself. But I recognised a few years back that I don't have to, it's not about me. It's about them. They're not hurting anyone, they're not damaging themselves, They just want to live they do... so I support them (whoever 'they' are) to do just that.

    So long as folks aren't harming themselves or one another, why worry?

    The big one though as you've said? If they tell you their side of the world? Listen and learn. You may not fully comprehend it, but you can support them.

    23 votes
    1. [2]
      grumble
      Link Parent
      I think you and I are in agreement about everything in your post. I'm absolutely going to rejoice in consenting adults doing almost everything they want to do in private. I just want to understand...

      I think you and I are in agreement about everything in your post.

      I'm absolutely going to rejoice in consenting adults doing almost everything they want to do in private.

      I just want to understand on a personal level.

      5 votes
      1. Pioneer
        Link Parent
        Give Contrapoints & Philosophy Tube a whizz on Youtube mate. They're both trans (M > F) and really make sense of it for the most part. They touch on other really great subjects that are important...

        I just want to understand on a personal level.

        Give Contrapoints & Philosophy Tube a whizz on Youtube mate. They're both trans (M > F) and really make sense of it for the most part. They touch on other really great subjects that are important to all of us, even if we don't realise it.

        I'm absolutely going to rejoice in consenting adults doing almost everything they want to do in private.

        And it public! They can do whatever they want.

        We may not get it, but fuck me if it isn't our place to stand beside them and support it.

        16 votes
  4. [4]
    Halfdan
    Link
    As a cis het guy myself, my only knowledge of this stuff is from watching the vids of Contrapoints. She's plenty smart and I'm quite a big fan. But I sorta feel that it is a bit weak, having my...

    As a cis het guy myself, my only knowledge of this stuff is from watching the vids of Contrapoints. She's plenty smart and I'm quite a big fan.

    But I sorta feel that it is a bit weak, having my entire worldview on a specific topic be based on a single youtuber. Anyone know any other youtubers or books or anything which can give me some deeper understanding of anything LGBT+?

    12 votes
    1. [2]
      JuDGe3690
      Link Parent
      For books: Fragmented Citizens: The Changing Landscape of Gay and Lesbian Lives by Stephen M. Engel (New York University Press, 2016) Beyond Trans: Does Gender Matter? by Heath Fogg Davis (New...

      Anyone know any other youtubers or books or anything which can give me some deeper understanding of anything LGBT+?

      For books:

      • Fragmented Citizens: The Changing Landscape of Gay and Lesbian Lives by Stephen M. Engel (New York University Press, 2016)
      • Beyond Trans: Does Gender Matter? by Heath Fogg Davis (New York University Press, 2017)
      • Transgender: A Reference Handbook by Aaron Devor and Ardel Haefele-Thomas (ABC-Clio, 2019)
      11 votes
      1. smoontjes
        Link Parent
        I would like to add Shon Faye's The Transgender Issue - An Argument for Justice to this list. It's from 2021 so it's still very current. I'm about two thirds of the way through it and it's so very...

        I would like to add Shon Faye's The Transgender Issue - An Argument for Justice to this list. It's from 2021 so it's still very current. I'm about two thirds of the way through it and it's so very well written. Everyone should read it if they care about LGBT+ issues.

        8 votes
    2. j2d2
      Link Parent
      One of my favourite queer channels has to be Rowan Ellis who does great deep dives into queer media, and I think that'll give you a great portal into the queer community. She's also written a book...

      One of my favourite queer channels has to be Rowan Ellis who does great deep dives into queer media, and I think that'll give you a great portal into the queer community. She's also written a book if that interests you, but I believe it's more advertised to queer women rather than people outside of the community.

      7 votes
  5. AnOnion
    (edited )
    Link
    Imagine everything you know about yourself - how you look, how you act, and how you think and feel about yourself. Now imagine being told by everyone around you for your entire life that you're...

    Imagine everything you know about yourself - how you look, how you act, and how you think and feel about yourself. Now imagine being told by everyone around you for your entire life that you're wrong. People call you by the wrong name, refer to you as the wrong gender, and treat you like you're insane when you try to correct them. This has been happening your entire life. It feels like you've been cursed with some illusion that makes it where people can't recognize you or see you for who you are. Maybe for a while you settle into the illusion for a while, but in your mind, somewhere, you still know that's not who you are. Maybe you'll give up and just live the lie inside the illusion for the rest of your life. Maybe one day you'll wake up and fight it. It's the most exhausting thing you have ever done, either way, and it almost never ends. Maybe you'll get lucky and one day people will actually see who and what you are, but who knows?

    That's what it feels like.

    9 votes
  6. [2]
    funchords
    Link
    Check out this Radiolab broadcast that takes an hour. This was the first time that it dawned on me in some deeper way than just knowing the terms and trying to imagine life kinda certain (but...

    Check out this Radiolab broadcast that takes an hour. This was the first time that it dawned on me in some deeper way than just knowing the terms and trying to imagine life kinda certain (but never totally certain) that you're in the wrong body.

    It's a treat. It's entertaining and engaging, give it your attention for an hour and you not only won't regret it, you'll understand this issue much better.

    9 votes
    1. grumble
      Link Parent
      Thanks and thanks for reminding me that I have radiolabs to listen to. It's seemingly not broadcast on my local public radio anymore. I've since forgotten about it since their app (that I paid...

      Thanks and thanks for reminding me that I have radiolabs to listen to. It's seemingly not broadcast on my local public radio anymore. I've since forgotten about it since their app (that I paid for) sucked donkey balls and has been removed.

      5 votes
  7. CannibalisticApple
    Link
    One thing that can help a lot: read fiction that centers around trans individuals. I've long believed that fiction can help people empathize with situations they can never experience more easily...

    One thing that can help a lot: read fiction that centers around trans individuals. I've long believed that fiction can help people empathize with situations they can never experience more easily than news reports or biographies, since we get a more intimate look at a fictional character and how their mind works. I find there's a sort of mental barrier with reading about real people that doesn't exist in fiction, so it becomes easier to read and understand. Just look at the impact Uncle Tom's Cabin had on attitudes towards slavery in America.

    I myself learned a lot about transgender individuals and issues from a webcomic called Rain, but I doubt you'd be particularly interested in it (it's set in a high school and has all the typical high school drama). Before that I'd never really thought about it, so it was massively educational and really opened my eyes.

    Unfortunately, I don't have any recommendations off the top of my head. If you have a particular genre you like, you can try looking for recommendations. There's a good chance you'll find something as more and more trans and other LGBTQIA+ authors come out of the woodwork and feature it in their works.

    9 votes
  8. [4]
    Elishah
    Link
    You're probably familiar with the idea that sexuality is complicated. That there are a billion variations on whom people find sexy, and what they want to do with them. There certainly are...

    You're probably familiar with the idea that sexuality is complicated. That there are a billion variations on whom people find sexy, and what they want to do with them. There certainly are combinations that are more common that others, but those don't cover anywhere near the whole spectrum of human experience. And that the only real authority on someone's sexuality is themselves; you can't measure it from the outside, you need to just take people at their word about how they work internally.

    You can use that as a frame of reference to recognize that gender is also similarly complicated, and similarly internal.

    Being cisgender is obviously the most common situation by far, and the next most common is being trans in the sense of being clearly a man or woman, but not the one that matches how most people originally perceived you. But there is a rich universe of detail and variation even beyond those two cases.

    That's where pronouns like they/them can be valuable. And if it helps you come to terms with it, note that using "they" to refer to a singular person is not only very common even for cis people, it has several centuries of precedent. In fact, singular "they" is far older than singular "you."

    Also similarly to sexuality, the only real authority on someone's gender is themselves. Whatever external measurements you might imagine, based on genitals or chromosomes or whatever, are starkly limited. They're okay approximations most of the time, but in this case "most" is critically far off from "all."

    In terms of trying to imagine the experience, I find that the "imagine everyone calling you a woman" example often falls short. Cis people (especially cis people who are also privileged on other axes) are often so comfortable with their identity that the concept of other people mischaracterizing them doesn't really have the same impact.

    Instead, try to imagine a life of everyone attributing some other trait to you that is not only inaccurate, but that you find distasteful. Imagine every single person you meet instantly concluding that you are a very cruel person, or a very stupid one. Imagine having to work hard to try to convince every single person in the world that you are not this thing, and often still failing. It's not only distressing, it's exhausting.

    And one final note: the odds are pretty good that you actually do know some trans people. There is no reason that it would be particularly obvious to you whether any particular individual is trans, and it's really not so rare as all that.

    8 votes
    1. [3]
      grumble
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Thanks. This is helpful for me too. I do like correctness, so I want to ask for a citation about the singular "they". I'm wondering if that's the TV thing. That's a formal/informal second person...

      Thanks. This is helpful for me too.

      I do like correctness, so I want to ask for a citation about the singular "they".

      I'm wondering if that's the TV thing.

      That's a formal/informal second person singular thing. Gender neutral, of course, but it is my understanding that proto Indo European (the ancestor of so many languages) gendered everything.

      1 vote
      1. Elishah
        Link Parent
        Certainly! The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular they back to 1375. And honestly, it's not even some rare edge case. You probably use singular they/them all the time, even when not talking...

        I do like correctness, so I want to ask for a citation about the singular "they".

        Certainly! The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular they back to 1375.

        And honestly, it's not even some rare edge case. You probably use singular they/them all the time, even when not talking specifically about trans or nonbinary people:

        "Make sure you greet each customer as they come into the store."

        "Oh no, looks like someone dropped their phone!" "Let's look for them, maybe they haven't gone far."

        "If someone cuts you off in traffic they're a jerk, but you should just let it go rather than getting angry at them."

        9 votes
      2. DrEvergreen
        Link Parent
        I speak one of those languages that "gender" everything. While we do call it "genders" for the nouns, that is just a name for how nouns are categorized. They are akin to using a/an for nouns in...

        I speak one of those languages that "gender" everything.

        While we do call it "genders" for the nouns, that is just a name for how nouns are categorized.

        They are akin to using a/an for nouns in English. Not actually thinking of items as women or men. An apple, a pear. For English, the rule has to do with what letter the noun starts with, but you could easily also call that "feminine form" and "male form" - but it does not mean that people ascribe human gender to items.

        Having different gender-nonspecific ways of talking about unknown people or groups of people is also common, and many languages use nonspecific plural forms even for singular, unknown individuals.

        So labelling nouns as "different genders" is different from the physiological description of humans. Many languages even have more noun categories than they have for categorizing actual human genders. They are not the same kind of categories.

        3 votes
  9. the_eon
    Link
    I'm not trans but I've had some people (also cis het individuals) mention how they can't understand how someone believes they are a different gender. If you don't have similar experiences to trans...

    I'm not trans but I've had some people (also cis het individuals) mention how they can't understand how someone believes they are a different gender. If you don't have similar experiences to trans individuals I can understand how it could be confusing. But first step of is always to be supportive. You don't need to understand something to support it. As a general rule, allow people to live in a way that enhances their life and help create safe spaces for them.

    But if you do want to understand, I usually start with something that I think most cis hets can get behind. Imagine you are going bald in a bad way. It looks awful. Every time you see yourself in a mirror you cringe at your hair; it isn't what you expected to happen to you, you thought it would be different. But you do have options. Maybe you get rid of it all. Maybe you get a toupee. Maybe you're lucky enough to get surgery or go on medication that helps bring back your original hair growth. I would argue those are equivalent with gender affirming care; after all, not only trans people benefit from gender affirming care.

    But now extrapolate to applying that same feeling but to your body as a whole. Or, perhaps more accurately, to the way you are being forced to present yourself. You like having short hair but you're not allowed to, so you must suffer with caring for something you hate that mocks you everytime you look in the mirror. Or maybe you get the same feeling whenever you see your genitals. Or maybe it's the kind of clothing or makeup (or lack thereof) that triggers those same feelings.

    If you can understand any of that, you're getting close to the core issue, or so I've been I've been told. But again, I'm not trans personally so don't take my word for gospel (and trans people feel free to correct/expand/etc whatever I say, you're the subject matter expert here).

    There's a lot of oversimplification here and I'm purposely choosing this method of comparison solely as a starting point for those that really just have a hard time taking that first step towards deeper understanding. Better comparisons exist, but if you don't get those, hopefully this can help kickstart the better and deeper discussions on this topic.

    6 votes
  10. FeminalPanda
    (edited )
    Link
    Trans woman here, you can ask me any questions as I have been to a couple QA sessions. They had been used as a singler pronoun for a long time but unless you use it that way it sounds weird in...

    Trans woman here, you can ask me any questions as I have been to a couple QA sessions.

    They had been used as a singler pronoun for a long time but unless you use it that way it sounds weird in your brain. Just going to have to come to terms with that.

    Being trans is different than being a tomboy or liking girly things.

    I would also lookup some trans YouTubers as they talk about their life outside of being trans as well.

    These are the channels I watched after my divorce.
    https://youtube.com/@clairemichelle4583
    https://youtube.com/@MathildaHogberg
    https://youtube.com/@robinjaspers

    6 votes
  11. chizcurl
    Link
    Ally here. I don't think you need to specifically set out and befriend a transgender person in order to develop empathy for them. After all, a person isn't a slot on a bingo sheet. I think you can...

    Ally here. I don't think you need to specifically set out and befriend a transgender person in order to develop empathy for them. After all, a person isn't a slot on a bingo sheet. I think you can become a stronger ally by simply listening to their stories. Content creators are the most visible ones with a platform. They will often provide social commentary and explain how their experiences have shaped their opinions and views of the world. A couple of people already mentioned Contrapoints; I would also recommend watching Kat Blaque. She has two YouTube channels. I believe she started her second one to post less scripted content. I think you should be natural in your approach. Subscribe to minorities if you like what they have to say. It will probably be easier to empathize with them and see how their lived experiences differ from your own.

    FYI - "they" as a pronoun is more about nonbinary gender identification (feeling like one's gender doesn't fit into the only 2 options of male or female) than transgender (feeling like one was assigned the wrong male/female gender at birth). Nonbinary is also a slidy-scale, too. A nonbinary person could prefer to outwardly act and look more androgynous, masculine, or feminine.

    6 votes
  12. 0x29A
    Link
    (tl;dr this is mostly regarding my approach to pronouns/language) Regarding the English language and pronouns... I used to be a stickler for those kinds of things, I just think that's how I was...

    (tl;dr this is mostly regarding my approach to pronouns/language)

    Regarding the English language and pronouns... I used to be a stickler for those kinds of things, I just think that's how I was raised. Part of my time in school very strongly leaned into English class (reading, writing, etc). Used to write poetry all the time. This unfortunately boiled down on the negative side into poking fun of others in arguments/debates when they would misspell "your" or "their", or misspeak, or whatever. I am no longer that a-hole, thank goodness...

    Over the years I've just found a way to let it go. I still like the historical information on all the irregularities and quirks of the English language anyway, but ultimately, I'm at the point where, I'm trying not even to care about what is considered "correct" anymore. I just found it harmful for myself personally. Like, even if we were to (just for example) learn that there wasn't a singular they in historical English, I don't think whether or not it was traditionally there matters to me. I'm okay with completely breaking open and modernizing a language.

    I realized that languages are living and people break the "rules" all the time without it hurting anyone or anything. I realize that a lot of these supposed "rules" are just stuff we've made up. I realize that having a problem with the way others write and speak can at times be ableist, racist, and xenophobic. Not at all saying you or anyone here is particularly doing that- but I feel like once I saw it from that angle, it was a lot easier to just let go, and find a freedom from worrying about any rules. Just mentioning it because it's the perspective that really helped me. Now, I've flipped so far that "technical correctness" and stringent rules about stuff like language actively bother me... because unless you're writing a formal paper or document or something, I find the desire for this technical correctness in everyday language to be wholly unnecessary and negative, like we're breaking some moral code or sinning against some 'god of English'

    I'm also trying to use that to help myself get more comfortable with neo-pronouns and new terms like latinx and such. Because of reasons I've already said, and because those newer terms are so unfamiliar, I know my brain wants to run back to the past and put up a wall to shield me... but from what? some unnecessary discomfort that I should probably just get over....

    3 votes
  13. [4]
    doingmybest
    Link
    I am also cis het (female), but closely related to a trans man. So, disclaimer, I am still on the learning curve myself. I try to think if I woke up in the opposite gender body. OK, maybe it would...

    I am also cis het (female), but closely related to a trans man. So, disclaimer, I am still on the learning curve myself. I try to think if I woke up in the opposite gender body. OK, maybe it would be interesting for minute to explore how that works, but for sure it would not feel like my real body. It wouldn't feel like ME. If people referred to me by that gender, I'd be like, ok I get the confusion, but clearly you are not really seeing me. If I TOLD them I was a woman, having a male body experience, and they still referred to me as a man, mmmm, I think I would feel like they are not hearing OR seeing me and I would be quite aggravated.

    Re. the grammar thing, I cant stand it! Grammar matters to me a lot and using the plural pronoun for a single person almost causes me physical pain. Unfortunately, however awful, it seems to be the accepted solution for now. I do care more about people than grammar (slightly!) so I've decided to suck it up and try not to be a whiney baby about it. Good luck in your journey!

    2 votes
    1. stove
      Link Parent
      Using "they" for antecedents of unknown gender like in "Someone left their wallet here." has been accepted for many many centuries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they It's using it to...

      Grammar matters to me a lot and using the plural pronoun for a single person almost causes me physical pain.

      Using "they" for antecedents of unknown gender like in "Someone left their wallet here." has been accepted for many many centuries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

      It's using it to refer to non-binary people that's new.

      18 votes
    2. [2]
      grumble
      Link Parent
      Yeah. The grammar is something that I think is unreasonably painful to me. I'm super glad that English only genders people/animals and not things. That brings me to latinx, which bothers me for a...

      Yeah. The grammar is something that I think is unreasonably painful to me. I'm super glad that English only genders people/animals and not things.

      That brings me to latinx, which bothers me for a whole host of reasons.

      1. Elishah
        Link Parent
        The thing is, English is rife with ambiguities like this. The term "you" can be either singular or plural. (Previously it was only plural, and thee/thou were the singular version.) This...

        Yeah. The grammar is something that I think is unreasonably painful to me.

        The thing is, English is rife with ambiguities like this.

        The term "you" can be either singular or plural. (Previously it was only plural, and thee/thou were the singular version.) This occasionally causes some confusion, but mostly we get along fine.

        The term "we" can be either inclusive or exclusive; you might be including the person you're speaking to in that we, or you might not. This occasionally causes some confusion, but mostly we get along fine.

        Some pronouns have separate subject/object cases (I/me, we/us, they/them), and some do not (you/you). This occasionally causes some confusion, but mostly we get along fine.

        Like every natural language, English has a bunch of quirks and things at which it is bad. But objecting disproportionately to this one particular ambiguity usually has some roots in transphobia, even if the unconscious and unintentional kind.

        11 votes
  14. [3]
    stardustmz
    Link
    I can't speak from direct Trans experience because I too am cis/het, but the way I've wrapped my head around it is that it is a constant irritation/discomfort for a Trans person to be misgendered....

    I can't speak from direct Trans experience because I too am cis/het, but the way I've wrapped my head around it is that it is a constant irritation/discomfort for a Trans person to be misgendered. Like a low level hum constantly putting you on edge. Something feels off and you want to fix it but various outside factors are constantly adding to it. Dysphoria ebbs and flows but it is always there until the person finds the balance that allows them to feel at peace. That may be presenting as the gender that feels right to them, or just using neutral pronouns. It is different for each person and as fellow people we need to be kind to each other while navigating this, taking correction with grace and giving correction with grace. No one knows what is happening in another person's head and kind and forgiving communication is the smoothest way to bring everyone up to speed.

    Just a simple "I prefer to be called this" with a reply of "oh I didn't know, thanks for telling me" goes a long way, but it is difficult sometimes to know who it is Safe to say something like that to, since the current zeitgeist is not as accepting of the basic humanity of people on the gender dysphoric spectrum.

    I hope this is helpful, because honestly empathy comes from understanding, which if it isn't your lived experience requires imagining what it would be like. I like Balen's mirror example, since it brings in the constant outside influences pressuring against inner feeling.

    2 votes
    1. [2]
      teaearlgraycold
      Link Parent
      I think I've gotten a similar understanding. Rather than make another "I'm not trans, but..." top-level comment I hope you don't mind if I tag onto yours. There are some great trans YouTubers that...

      I think I've gotten a similar understanding. Rather than make another "I'm not trans, but..." top-level comment I hope you don't mind if I tag onto yours. There are some great trans YouTubers that make amazing videos on lots of topics, but also cover their trans experiences in videos.

      Here's one: I Emailed My Doctor 133 Times: The Crisis In the British Healthcare System
      Another: Identity: A Trans Coming Out Story
      A lot over here, too: https://www.youtube.com/@ContraPoints/videos

      3 votes
      1. stardustmz
        Link Parent
        Ooo thanks. I love learning about others perspectives from their own words.

        Ooo thanks. I love learning about others perspectives from their own words.

        1 vote
  15. Deimos
    Link
    I've locked this thread. The OP has already gotten a lot of good responses, and I've been told that this kind of thread can be pretty tiring for trans people to engage with (and I think future...
    • Exemplary

    I've locked this thread. The OP has already gotten a lot of good responses, and I've been told that this kind of thread can be pretty tiring for trans people to engage with (and I think future ones similar to this might actually be best to move outside of ~lgbt). So I don't want it to potentially go on for days—@grumble I'm sure you can probably message some of the users that responded helpfully to you if you feel like you have some more questions for them.

    10 votes