25 votes

Request: etiquette instructions for neurodiverse teens

Looking for books that target (1) teen person and (2) parents which go over with a fine tooth comb how to navigate basic social skills.

I'm looking for something with as explicit instructions as possible, such as "when someone gives you something, catch their attention, make eye contact, and speak in a loud enough voice to say thank you".

I need something with troubleshooting involved such as, what if they're not looking at me, what if the environment is loud, what if I have my mouth full, what if I've already said it and they didn't hear. I need the instructions to cover things like "what if I'm supposed to follow two conflicting rules".

Basically explaining human customs and manners to bodiless angels who do not learn from observation and whose minds are pure intellect wholly sufficient unto itself, and who need to expend energy and effort to interact with mortals on our plane and operate on our dimensions.

Basics like, how to pass through a doorway when someone is holding the door for you, how to move out of the way when someone is coming towards you on a narrow sidewalk, how to pull over a shopping cart so it doesn't block other shoppers, don't throw/toss things at people when they ask for you to pass an object. These statements have been repeatedly shared with them any number of times to no avail: they're not looking at the world in the same way at all. They're not situationally aware, they're not interested in the world.

I grew up in a world that just screams at people until they behave out of fear and forced compliance. I'm trying to find a different way. Thank you kindly for any recommendations or suggestions.

18 comments

  1. [11]
    kfwyre
    Link
    The term for what you’re looking for is “pragmatics” or “social pragmatics.” I don’t have any specific recommendations, but hopefully that will point you in the right direction for resources....

    The term for what you’re looking for is “pragmatics” or “social pragmatics.” I don’t have any specific recommendations, but hopefully that will point you in the right direction for resources.

    Check out resources aimed at speech pathologists, who often directly teach those skills to neurodiverse kids. I know a lot of speech paths use “social detective” curricula, but I think that’s aimed at younger kids rather than teens.

    19 votes
    1. [10]
      sparksbet
      Link Parent
      Eh, as someone who studied pragmatics, it would be a component of this but not the whole -- only communication-related portions of this would be pragmatics. I think politeness/social etiquette are...

      Eh, as someone who studied pragmatics, it would be a component of this but not the whole -- only communication-related portions of this would be pragmatics. I think politeness/social etiquette are terms that encompass all of the stuff OP mentioned better. That said, I only studied these things academically rather than in any sort of therapeutic context, so it's possible resources for children with social pragmatics issues also branch out into related concepts. I wish I knew of something specific to recommend.

      6 votes
      1. [7]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Edit: See comments below! The Program for the Education and Enrichment of Relational Skills (PEERS) at UCLA could be worth investigating too. Especially since it even has treatment manuals that...

        Edit: See comments below!

        After some googling around a bunch; It looks like Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) seems like it might be worth @chocobean looking into. E.g. https://www.autismspeaks.org/applied-behavior-analysis

        The Program for the Education and Enrichment of Relational Skills (PEERS) at UCLA could be worth investigating too. Especially since it even has treatment manuals that can be purchased, and tons of Role Play Videos which seem to be almost exactly what OP was looking for:
        https://www.semel.ucla.edu/peers/purchase-peers%C2%AE-manuals
        https://www.semel.ucla.edu/peers/resources/role-play-videos

        5 votes
        1. [5]
          kfwyre
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          It’s worth noting that ABA is quite controversial. This article (archive link) is a good primer. Also, separately, Autism Speaks is quite controversial. Primer here. For me the most salient...

          It’s worth noting that ABA is quite controversial. This article (archive link) is a good primer.

          Also, separately, Autism Speaks is quite controversial. Primer here. For me the most salient criticism is the following:

          In 2020, the Autistic Self Advocacy Network (ASAN) reported that of the 28 members of Autism Speaks’ Board of Directors, only one belonged to the autism community.

          9 votes
          1. [4]
            DefinitelyNotAFae
            Link Parent
            Yeah, autistic adults have expressed, both to me personally and online in autistic spaces, that they consider ABA to be abusive.

            Yeah, autistic adults have expressed, both to me personally and online in autistic spaces, that they consider ABA to be abusive.

            9 votes
            1. [3]
              cfabbro
              Link Parent
              Oh, damn! Thanks for the heads up, (and @kfwyre, @sparksbet too). Edited my above comment.

              Oh, damn! Thanks for the heads up, (and @kfwyre, @sparksbet too). Edited my above comment.

              8 votes
              1. DefinitelyNotAFae
                Link Parent
                Appreciate it! It's the sort of thing that is not obvious or common knowledge to people unfamiliar.

                Appreciate it! It's the sort of thing that is not obvious or common knowledge to people unfamiliar.

                7 votes
              2. chocobean
                Link Parent
                Man, what a fantastic community, y'all, thanks!

                Man, what a fantastic community, y'all, thanks!

                7 votes
        2. sparksbet
          Link Parent
          I don't have any personal experience with ABA, but the autistic people I know have opinions ranging from mild displeasure with its practices to accusations that it's straight-up torture, so I'd...

          I don't have any personal experience with ABA, but the autistic people I know have opinions ranging from mild displeasure with its practices to accusations that it's straight-up torture, so I'd hesitate to recommend it. The link you provide is from Autism Speaks, which is pretty widely decried by actual autistic people.

          9 votes
      2. [2]
        kfwyre
        Link Parent
        My only experience with it is second-hand via the schools I’ve worked in, but the pragmatics instruction that my neurodiverse students have had has generally been quite holistic and applied. I...

        My only experience with it is second-hand via the schools I’ve worked in, but the pragmatics instruction that my neurodiverse students have had has generally been quite holistic and applied. I mentioned curricula above, and that is used, but a lot of the instruction is specific to the individual student’s needs and experiences. For example, the speech path might ask the student about a confusing situation from their week, and then they work together to unpack it and make sense of it.

        It’s also worth noting that I’m working in a secondary setting with older students, most of whom already worked through the basics and are now encountering the more complex social landscape of teenagedom.

        I also think there’s probably an element of: “pragmatics” is what gets put on paperwork, but the actual instruction is more about broader social skills in general.

        4 votes
        1. sparksbet
          Link Parent
          Ah, that makes sense. It's more or less the opposite context from where I come from -- I worked with pragmatics as a linguist in an academic setting (and if money were no object, I'd still be...

          Ah, that makes sense. It's more or less the opposite context from where I come from -- I worked with pragmatics as a linguist in an academic setting (and if money were no object, I'd still be doing that), but there it's obviously looking at it from a very different perspective than any programs that are intended to be educational or therapeutic. I honestly didn't really know much about pragmatics being included in that kind of setting until this topic!

          4 votes
  2. [2]
    Carrie
    Link
    Hello, I don't have a book recommendation that fits your exact criteria, however I do have some insight that may be helpful. There is a high overlap of neurodivergence (ADHD and Autism,...

    Hello,

    I don't have a book recommendation that fits your exact criteria, however I do have some insight that may be helpful. There is a high overlap of neurodivergence (ADHD and Autism, specifically) and connective tissue disorders(can provide a source if wanted), so it's possible proprioception and bodily awareness is partially due to some physical issues in addition to conditioning issues. You may be able to find a physical therapist or other medical professional to help in that regard.

    In terms of books, this book helped me understand how to work with my neurodivergence instead of just constantly masking/coping. Disregard if not helpful, but thought I'd throw it out there.

    9 votes
    1. chocobean
      Link Parent
      Thank you Carrie, I've ordered one :)

      Thank you Carrie, I've ordered one :)

      2 votes
  3. [2]
    stu2b50
    Link
    Ngl I think ChatGPT or Claude or whatever would be good at this. Situations are too nuanced for someone to write a book enumerating every possible interaction.

    Ngl I think ChatGPT or Claude or whatever would be good at this. Situations are too nuanced for someone to write a book enumerating every possible interaction.

    9 votes
    1. BroiledBraniac
      Link Parent
      I am on the spectrum and use LLMs when I ask "how would a human do this?" 100% this is a great way to relieve that anxiety quickly.

      I am on the spectrum and use LLMs when I ask "how would a human do this?" 100% this is a great way to relieve that anxiety quickly.

      9 votes
  4. [2]
    first-must-burn
    Link
    I subscribe to this YouTube channel does a lot of autism education. She has a book which I have not read, but the things she covers in some of her videos feel like answers to some of your...

    I subscribe to this YouTube channel does a lot of autism education. She has a book which I have not read, but the things she covers in some of her videos feel like answers to some of your questions, so maybe either the channel or the book will help?

    Best of luck to you.

    5 votes