23 votes

Why US Democrats won't build their own Joe Rogan

25 comments

  1. [20]
    WrathOfTheHydra
    Link
    The sentiment has been parroted ad nauseam, but the problem with this idea is that the left side of the aisle is not full of cultists. People refer to Joe Rogan as all powerful, but it's the...

    The sentiment has been parroted ad nauseam, but the problem with this idea is that the left side of the aisle is not full of cultists. People refer to Joe Rogan as all powerful, but it's the people that continually tune in that gives him momentum. People throw darts at Elon for being a rich pillar behind the republican party, but it's everyone that stayed on X instead of abandoning it like they should have that gave any credence to his platform. If anything, a fair amount of the left still engages with right-leaning media because they want to be informed. We don't want an echo chamber, but it means some of us fuel the fire.

    There is no scenario in the current climate we live in to which we'd find a leftist propaganda-vomit podcast that will equal the engagement of something like Joe Rogan. The left does not want a vice which is all that podcast and like-minded shows are: They're just rage fuel for viewers to froth at. The left wants problems solved. Regardless of how well it achieves that goal, that's what it wants. And no one, not even alternate-reality-Joe Rogan himself, could solve problems at a mass large enough and interesting enough and lizard-brain-scratching enough to match up.

    38 votes
    1. [12]
      pesus
      Link Parent
      I disagree, at least partially. We don't need a cult leader that relies on scapegoating and bullshit, but I still think we need a strong uniting figure of some sort. Bernie is the perfect example...

      I disagree, at least partially. We don't need a cult leader that relies on scapegoating and bullshit, but I still think we need a strong uniting figure of some sort. Bernie is the perfect example - that's the only time I've seen left wingers (and others) really rally around a single figure that really energized and inspired people. (Maybe campaign Obama was close.) Bernie was able to attract people who were disillusioned with the current political system as well, which I think is a significant portion of this country. They're not a fluke. They probably significantly outnumber people who are satisfied with the status quo.

      You don't need to lie and blame minorities like right wingers do, but you do need to provide a clear message that things can improve, will improve if you vote for ____ (insert figure here), and that there is a group of people that have been working to make your life miserable (aka the extremely wealthy), and that we will both stop said people from doing so and make sure they're held accountable for it. It doesn't have to come at the cost of having actual solutions, but those solutions need to at the very least be marketed much better, and resonate with people. This obviously won't take the exact same form as figures like Joe Rogan, but I do think we need someone to fire up and reach the millions of people who are desperate for change.

      25 votes
      1. [7]
        DefinitelyNotAFae
        Link Parent
        Much like Rogan, Bernie supporters were not super great about women. And I never felt inspired by him, still don't. He makes some good points, his supporters still suck, and I don't always agree...

        Much like Rogan, Bernie supporters were not super great about women. And I never felt inspired by him, still don't. He makes some good points, his supporters still suck, and I don't always agree with him either.

        I did by campaign Obama, but I was younger at the time and believed in the Hope. I still don't have the distaste for him that some do, I doubt anyone in the office could have done enough different that people wouldn't be disillusioned. Bartlett is imaginary and even he did some things I don't like.

        I understand your aim, and I think AOC for example has functioned in this role some. But I think Rogan is the modern update to the radio traditions of Limbaugh. Meanwhile we might listen to NPR on the left but I'm never going to worship the words out of Ira Glasses mouth. Idk, I don't want a "great man" vibe, I want community.

        5 votes
        1. [4]
          pesus
          Link Parent
          I see your points, and I do understand and empathize, but I think this sort of striving for a perfect person is ultimately doing more harm than good. I don't think there's a person on earth I...

          I see your points, and I do understand and empathize, but I think this sort of striving for a perfect person is ultimately doing more harm than good.

          Much like Rogan, Bernie supporters were not super great about women. And I never felt inspired by him, still don't. He makes some good points, his supporters still suck, and I don't always agree with him either.

          I don't think there's a person on earth I would always agree with on everything. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with some of Bernie's supporters, but you just told me I suck, for little other than some of them being "not super great" with women and disagreeing with him some of the time. Maybe you were understating your views on things, but to me this just comes off as making perfect the enemy of good, and alienating people in the process for no actual reasons other than not quite liking the vibe. I really don't mean to downplay legitimate issues with sexism or other things, but the fact of the matter is right wingers understand the need to stick together to achieve their common goals, and they do it. For whatever reasons, most of us on the left are just unable or unwilling to be pragmatic enough to actually get shit done and get a message pushed out there.

          13 votes
          1. [3]
            DefinitelyNotAFae
            Link Parent
            Mostly I just didn't feel like getting into specifics. Bernie was not in the slightest a motivational presence in my life. That might be because I'm a woman, it might be because I don't like the...

            Mostly I just didn't feel like getting into specifics. Bernie was not in the slightest a motivational presence in my life. That might be because I'm a woman, it might be because I don't like the vibes of a Rogan or a Bernie and it might be because the community around him sucked. (Even if only for me, but I don't think it was only for me.) He's the example you used, so he's the one I referenced. I don't think an 83 year old man currently ripping into the Dems is the best example of the person that could bring people together. But maybe it's just me.

            I mentioned further down that I don't want a "great man" to speak for/to us, regardless of actual gender. I want community. The community around a person is going to matter to people like me and I'm tired of really sexist spaces.

            3 votes
            1. [2]
              iquanyin
              Link Parent
              i doubt it’s because you’re a woman. i’m a woman myself and i adore bernie.

              i doubt it’s because you’re a woman. i’m a woman myself and i adore bernie.

              5 votes
              1. DefinitelyNotAFae
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                Maybe, it still may partially inform my opinion even though your experience is different. Edit: As I wrote my longer response, my gender, which is non-binary as well as a woman, is definitely a...

                Maybe, it still may partially inform my opinion even though your experience is different.
                Edit:
                As I wrote my longer response, my gender, which is non-binary as well as a woman, is definitely a big part of my experience with that community. I never was in the space, which may have felt quite comfortable to those inside the circle. From the outside, the gendered dynamic was part of the repellent

                1 vote
        2. [2]
          wycy
          Link Parent
          Genuine question, can you explain more what you mean by his community sucking, especially with examples? I've never heard any serious critique of the community beyond unfounded Bernie Bro smearing...

          Much like Rogan, Bernie supporters were not super great about women. And I never felt inspired by him, still don't. He makes some good points, his supporters still suck, and I don't always agree with him either.
          I don't like the vibes of a Rogan or a Bernie and it might be because the community around him sucked

          Genuine question, can you explain more what you mean by his community sucking, especially with examples? I've never heard any serious critique of the community beyond unfounded Bernie Bro smearing from the Hillary crowd.

          10 votes
          1. DefinitelyNotAFae
            Link Parent
            Gods it's been 8 incredibly long years. I don't think I have any of that written down anywhere which is why I'm speaking really only to my feelings. I don't really know how far into social media...

            Gods it's been 8 incredibly long years. I don't think I have any of that written down anywhere which is why I'm speaking really only to my feelings. I don't really know how far into social media "memories" I'd have to go to even look.

            There was a subset of his supporters who fit every worst "online reply guy" category - righteous, claiming rationality and logic as king which allowed them to feel both superior and comfortable being assholes on the internet. There's a thread between their behavior and the things I see from Trump supporters online, but also a thread to the leftist reply guy, to the sealion, to the "your examples aren't sufficient and you're too emotional about it." It's not an environment that's ever felt welcoming or comfortable to me, particularly as it was coming mostly from men with an intent and impact of shutting down people that disagreed.

            So I had some bad personal experiences with his supporters. I know there were some reports of sexual harassment and mistreatment of his female interns and staffers in the campaign (not by Sanders himself).

            And because I hate my peace, I looked at some news reports from 2016 and there were supporters of his harassing female reporters and sending death threats to Democratic party officials which like, is the stuff I like least about discourse in America - that anything gets you death threats or people like Tamara Keith being called a c*nt on Twitter. I don't see that being made up by Clinton's campaign, but it tracked with my personal experiences, though less severe, they were of the same vibes. I assume these are the news stories I saw then.

            It's the same shit Musk and Trump engage in and support, and while I don't think Sanders himself engaged in it, I did not ever see a space for me in that community. I was far more a Warren fan personally. And I probably agree with Sanders more today than I used to, but I don't particularlylike him. I don't think he cares whether I do either.

            And this is why I say I want community, not a Rogan-esque character, because none of the history matters now really. And yet we'll focus on whether Clinton lied 8 years ago (to NPR reporters about the tweets they got?), and whether I have enough evidence to back up my feelings of alienation from a guy who I have now thought more about today than any day since the 2016 inauguration in his mittens.

            And this is pretty much why. I don't care enough about him for this and I'm annoyed at myself for going to the trouble, but because of the community here on Tildes I did. I have never liked the discourse a subset of his supporters were loudly engaging in, and I still hate it today, no matter who does it.

            3 votes
      2. [3]
        GenuinelyCrooked
        Link Parent
        But people who do those things exist in the podcast community, and they don't have nearly the following that Joe Rogan does. The best example I can think of is Robert Evans.

        But people who do those things exist in the podcast community, and they don't have nearly the following that Joe Rogan does. The best example I can think of is Robert Evans.

        3 votes
        1. [2]
          pesus
          Link Parent
          I like him and enjoy the podcasts, but I don't think he has that much universal appeal in the same way. Behind The Bastards is too negative and singularly focused for it to have much impact. I...

          I like him and enjoy the podcasts, but I don't think he has that much universal appeal in the same way. Behind The Bastards is too negative and singularly focused for it to have much impact. I know I can't listen to it very frequently because it's just depressing.

          I don't think being a podcaster is necessary. It just needs to be someone that can reach and excite people.

          6 votes
          1. th0mcat
            Link Parent
            And dear god are the BtB guests annoying and add absolutely zero value to the podcast.

            And dear god are the BtB guests annoying and add absolutely zero value to the podcast.

            3 votes
      3. elight
        Link Parent
        Jamie Raskin. No, seriously. Not as a podcaster but as a leader. I caught myself lately thinking of him as a believable Jedediah Bartlett. Charismatic. Whip smart and he'll use it as same. And...

        Jamie Raskin.

        No, seriously.

        Not as a podcaster but as a leader. I caught myself lately thinking of him as a believable Jedediah Bartlett. Charismatic. Whip smart and he'll use it as same. And seemingly as honest and of good character as they come.

        He's more of an anti-Rogan/conspiracy promoting nutjob. And that may be exactly what we need. And why wouldn't we? Instead of someone to help us be mad, someone to help us have hope and be proud.

        3 votes
    2. [6]
      hobbes64
      Link Parent
      I mostly agree with you. I'm reminded of when there was an attempt to make talk radio for progressives (liberals?). It didn't work out. Can't remember the name. Air America or something like that....

      I mostly agree with you. I'm reminded of when there was an attempt to make talk radio for progressives (liberals?). It didn't work out. Can't remember the name. Air America or something like that.

      You mention the left wants problems solved. I think people on the right want problems solved too, but they expect the solution to be simple and want an authority figure to do it while punishing their enemies. I agree that they like to rage though. Nobody is forcing anyone to watch Fox or listen to talk radio but it's all hate and fear. You'd think all the "Christians" who consume that stuff would think about that and pause.

      I've taken it upon myself lately to discuss some things with people who voted for trump. Maybe I can deprogram them. Probably not. But I just ask them to explain why they did it. They really cannot without something very simplistic. When I point out that is wrong, they don't argue, they just give another reason that also isn't based on reality.

      BTW there must be thousands of bloggers and vloggers who have liberal ideas and topics. For example, Rebecca Watson. These are probably mostly passion projects and not a money making grift like Joe Rogan and the others. That seems to be a key feature.

      8 votes
      1. [3]
        BeardyHat
        Link Parent
        The thing to remember is that you probably have more in common with them than you don't. My parents are supporters and whenever I talk to my Mom, we both have similar concerns. Corporate power,...

        I've taken it upon myself lately to discuss some things with people who voted for trump.

        The thing to remember is that you probably have more in common with them than you don't. My parents are supporters and whenever I talk to my Mom, we both have similar concerns. Corporate power, high COL, crime, etc, etc. We agree on a lot, we just don't agree on the causes or the solutions.

        17 votes
        1. pesus
          Link Parent
          I think this is overlooked way too much. Many conservatives or people who were swayed to the right do have legitimate concerns, they just came to very wrong conclusions on the cause and solution....

          I think this is overlooked way too much. Many conservatives or people who were swayed to the right do have legitimate concerns, they just came to very wrong conclusions on the cause and solution. Ignoring these concerns or not addressing them sufficiently has really damaged us.

          16 votes
        2. vord
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          That's because, for a staggeringly huge percentage of conservatives most of the causes of social ills boil down to one of the same three things they always do: Black people are inferior Gay people...

          That's because, for a staggeringly huge percentage of conservatives most of the causes of social ills boil down to one of the same three things they always do:

          • Black people are inferior
          • Gay people are icky
          • Women are incapable

          And for economy, conservatives have the myth of meritocracy even more deeply engrained than "christian values".

          I spent the better part of 20 years trying to leverage that 'same concerns' into a path that veered from one of those, and it always ends up back in that rut.

          3 votes
      2. [2]
        ButteredToast
        Link Parent
        I’ve never listened to the show you mention but I think that one of the issues with media that tries to lean left is that it’s not done in a way that the average Joe can really relate to. This is...

        I’ve never listened to the show you mention but I think that one of the issues with media that tries to lean left is that it’s not done in a way that the average Joe can really relate to.

        This is not as much of a issue for right-leaning media, which is why it so easily snowballs a following — not only is it pulling people who are already positioned to the right, but also those who might’ve been liberal/left but not convicted about it as well as those who just never really gave their political standing any thought.

        The problem is that right-leaning media achieves this mass appeal by presenting problems and proposed solutions in an oversimplified manner that cuts out nuance and bends truth. Many of these topics are too complex or out in the weeds to be able to make them digestible for the masses while also maintaining intellectual honesty and integrity.

        4 votes
        1. ButteredToast
          Link Parent
          Thinking about it some more, the personality of the host is probably a big factor too. I think a big part of Rogan’s appeal to his audience is the “bbq’n’beer”, “just a dude” aspect of his...

          Thinking about it some more, the personality of the host is probably a big factor too. I think a big part of Rogan’s appeal to his audience is the “bbq’n’beer”, “just a dude” aspect of his persona.

          That might seem like an outdated 90s sitcom stereotype to many of us, but I believe it’s what a lot of guys, especially among blue collar, identify with.

          The left doesn’t have many prominent personalities of that sort. The closest I think I’ve seen is Walz, but he was running for VP and not a show host.

          3 votes
    3. Eji1700
      Link Parent
      I really do disagree with this sentiment. Politics in general has always been about cultists, and the left isn't immune to that in the slightest. On top of that, Musk was ABSOLUTELY the left's...

      but the problem with this idea is that the left side of the aisle is not full of cultists.

      I really do disagree with this sentiment. Politics in general has always been about cultists, and the left isn't immune to that in the slightest.

      On top of that, Musk was ABSOLUTELY the left's wonderchild until he turned on them. I have meet plenty of people who got mad at me for being a climate destroying republican for pointing out Musk really seemed like a shitty person with a pandering business model, who will now conveniently forget how ardently they defended him in the past as they turn his name into a swear word.

      Parties need to be more introspective of who they're actually dealing with. Following popular people to the point of absurdity is a human trait shared across a very wide spectrum.

      There is no scenario in the current climate we live in to which we'd find a leftist propaganda-vomit podcast that will equal the engagement of something like Joe Rogan.

      Isn't the top twitch streamer (or top politics twitch streamer) leftist with his own cult following?

      7 votes
  2. [3]
    stu2b50
    Link
    I feel like this is getting it backwards. Joe Rogan is not a Republican or conservative talk show host, at least to start. Remember when Sanders was on the show? Rogan had his audience before he...

    I feel like this is getting it backwards. Joe Rogan is not a Republican or conservative talk show host, at least to start. Remember when Sanders was on the show? Rogan had his audience before he was a political partisan.

    You’ll never get the “Joe Rogan” of the left if it starts from politics establishment or political roots. Politics is icky. The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are icky to people.

    15 votes
    1. [2]
      hobbes64
      Link Parent
      He has become a conservative talk show host. Partly because he has too much money, which can change a person a lot. Partly because the right wing is good at radicalizing young men and they...

      He has become a conservative talk show host. Partly because he has too much money, which can change a person a lot. Partly because the right wing is good at radicalizing young men and they recognize Rogan as a prime vector for this so they are likely to come on his show and flatter him or whatever. Also, Joe Rogan is not very smart but thinks he is. (He supposedly says that he isn't smart but he clearly doesn't believe this himself). He's a perfect target for Republicans/conservatives who manipulate him with easy solutions and disinfo. And bonus, he multiplies the disinformation millions of times over.

      11 votes
      1. stu2b50
        Link Parent
        Sure, but the keyword is "become". He had built his audience before that. You can't start from the goal of "I want a super popular leftwing influencer" and build backwards. That's only going to...

        Sure, but the keyword is "become". He had built his audience before that. You can't start from the goal of "I want a super popular leftwing influencer" and build backwards. That's only going to get products that feel like disingenuous mouthpieces, which won't become "super popular". Rogan grew organically, then slowly became more and partisan.

        10 votes
  3. [2]
    moocow1452
    (edited )
    Link
    This could have been an article in and of itself. Even if the Democratic donors were willing to give money to the folks who stream daily about how irresponsible they are with it and that they...

    [...] when Rogan endorsed Bernie back in 2020, he and Sanders were met with swift backlash. Instead of recognizing Rogan's massive reach and ability to connect with an audience that might not immediately be inclined to vote with the Democratic party, some progressive Sanders supporters called on the candidate to denounce Rogan's endorsement because the podcaster had made transphobic comments in the past.

    This could have been an article in and of itself. Even if the Democratic donors were willing to give money to the folks who stream daily about how irresponsible they are with it and that they should be salted to taste, even if the Democratic politicians were willing to give access to the people who podcast about how they are enabling and becoming a Diet Coke version of MAGA, you still have to deal with an audience that will eat someone alive any time they have any sort of outreach with any guest outside of the audiences comfort zone. Breadtube is known for eating their own over the littlest things, how is that going to operate at scale as a voice of a generation? Trying to appease all three of those would be like throwing Thor in with Scylla and Charybdis, any one of them being able to sink your boat any minute and then attempt to be genuine on top of that.

    10 votes
    1. puhtahtoe
      Link Parent
      This is one of the biggest problems IMO. The left has endless purity tests which are collectively impossible to meet. The right, for all their infighting, line up to kiss the ring when it matters....

      This is one of the biggest problems IMO.

      The left has endless purity tests which are collectively impossible to meet.

      The right, for all their infighting, line up to kiss the ring when it matters. We saw them nearly tearing each other apart over the House Speakership this term but come election day they were all back on the same page.