The Lion, The Witch, and the audacity of This Bitch. People pulling out cameras and filming movies is obviously disrespectful. I think most people would be upset about people whipping out a camera...
The Lion, The Witch, and the audacity of This Bitch.
People pulling out cameras and filming movies is obviously disrespectful. I think most people would be upset about people whipping out a camera and filming some powerful monologue at the end of a movie but maybe I'm just old or something. It sucks that people paying premium prices have to deal with this stuff, I think the best way to deal with this is to catch the movies a few weeks after release when recording this stuff is not going to be hot footage for social media.
At least I'm patient enough to wait for that time and also have a decent setup at home to watch movies if I want to avoid the theatres altogether (which is most of the time nowadays due to pricing).
More movie theater companies just need to grow a spine and eject people. It's one of my favorite features of Alamo Drafthouse: if you're disruptive (which includes having a phone visible), they'll...
More movie theater companies just need to grow a spine and eject people. It's one of my favorite features of Alamo Drafthouse: if you're disruptive (which includes having a phone visible), they'll throw you out, ban you, and maybe make fun of you as a warning to future customers.
Shaming people in movie theaters for being disruptive is legit cinema history. It's how the first theaters in the US taught the movie-going public movie-going manners. And if you were found to be...
Shaming people in movie theaters for being disruptive is legit cinema history. It's how the first theaters in the US taught the movie-going public movie-going manners. And if you were found to be the annoying, the house spotlight would be on you in the dark theater and everyone had a free go at roasting you. So glad to hear it still exists in Alamo Drafthouse.
No, not shaming. Simply throwing them out for the same reasons people were thrown out before. Disruptive behaviour, excessive noise. Or phones out. Are you filming for distribution? No way to...
No, not shaming.
Simply throwing them out for the same reasons people were thrown out before. Disruptive behaviour, excessive noise. Or phones out. Are you filming for distribution? No way to know. Put it away or you'll be escorted out.
I feel like "shaming" is too much of an emotional word, and too vague to accurately describe what needs to be done by the employees as these venues.
Whether those people feel shame is irrelevant. If they did they wouldn't be acting like that to begin with.
I would say the issues with throwing people out (at least most theatres near me) is that they're staffed with a skeleton crew of 16-22 year olds. On top of that, you risk the patron getting more...
I would say the issues with throwing people out (at least most theatres near me) is that they're staffed with a skeleton crew of 16-22 year olds. On top of that, you risk the patron getting more irate and causing more of a scene too ruining the experience even more.
While it causes a temporary disturbance while escorting people away, I'd say the overall effect would be positive. I've been a manager, and one of the things I always taught employees was that not...
While it causes a temporary disturbance while escorting people away, I'd say the overall effect would be positive.
I've been a manager, and one of the things I always taught employees was that not all money has the same value.
Money from an antagonistic person is worth much less, since other customers seeing that bad behaviour will then avoid the establishment in the future to avoid experiencing more of the same.
Being paid for your services by 1 person causing a ruckus in bad faith means losing several other regular customers. People that will go on to tell others about the bad experience, causing others to be more likely to avoid the place too.
Whereas declining to service troublemakers means others will notice that they can expect the establishment to work at providing a pleasant service/time spent there. Including telling others about troublemakers being denied service, which also has benefits.
Proof is in the pudding. Cinemas around the world are experiencing a decline in sales.
Tickets are much more expensive than before as it is. Why would you want to pay for that if you hear your friends and family tell you about the inconsiderate and rude behaviour that was allowed to happen?
I really feel like today's adults have collectively stopped taking the adult role in society. As if the expectation to step up and step in was never placed on us as much as in earlier times.
There is a much lower chance of anyone at all speaking up against shitty behaviours today. We're all looking for that "adultier adult", rather than doing the social adulting ourselves, in a sense.
I think this is a correlation/causation issue. Cinemas are declining for several reasons that are much larger than some rowdy customers. Pandemic impacts, the rise of streaming and the decrease in...
Proof is in the pudding. Cinemas around the world are experiencing a decline in sales.
I think this is a correlation/causation issue. Cinemas are declining for several reasons that are much larger than some rowdy customers. Pandemic impacts, the rise of streaming and the decrease in time between theatre -> streaming service, TV's becoming cheaper and larger, increased ticket prices, and now strikes are happening with a looming recession over our heads.
I really feel like today's adults have collectively stopped taking the adult role in society. As if the expectation to step up and step in was never placed on us as much as in earlier times.
there's more people and that makes the world a more isolated place, paradoxically enough. You may take the time to care if you know a person and want them to not make a scene. When it's a different person every day making a different scene, you get desensitized. You're never seeing that person again and the behavior continues.
You're not teaching one person a lesson, you're becoming society's nanny. And that's a very draining title to take on while you have other worries with yourself and faimly.
You're right. I didn't think of it like that, but I fully agree. If everyone was expected to, and did speak up it wouldn't be such a huge threshold for any individual. Nor would anyone have to say...
You're right.
I didn't think of it like that, but I fully agree.
If everyone was expected to, and did speak up it wouldn't be such a huge threshold for any individual. Nor would anyone have to say or do much on their own either, I don't think. A little bit of societal pressure from a lot of people vs just 1 person.
This is an interesting point that I hadn't thought of but definitely seems to have some truth to it. I wonder if longer life expectancy has anything to do with that? The last few generations grew...
I really feel like today's adults have collectively stopped taking the adult role in society. As if the expectation to step up and step in was never placed on us as much as in earlier times.
This is an interesting point that I hadn't thought of but definitely seems to have some truth to it. I wonder if longer life expectancy has anything to do with that? The last few generations grew up with the elders not ever really dying, and with that had less opportunities for stepping up in the leadership roles in their careers and communities. Maybe with that the societal etiquette took a downturn because as the generations grew older they never really had to fill those roles? I don't have anything to back that up, just pure conjecture.
The lack of social policing is noticeable in the US. Right now I’m riding the BART train in SF and trying to read a book I had just bought from my favorite queer bookstore, but some dude is...
The lack of social policing is noticeable in the US.
Right now I’m riding the BART train in SF and trying to read a book I had just bought from my favorite queer bookstore, but some dude is blasting his music on a portable speaker. It’s incredibly rude. The other week, I saw a bucket of half-eaten melted ice cream left on a BART seat: the motion of the train had jostled it many times, and its melted contents covered several seats and smeared a large section of the floor.
In a functioning society, people would stand up for what’s right and proper. But we fear retaliation.
I remember when I first moved to Amsterdam, an elderly man berated me for riding my bicycle on the sidewalk. There, the public transit was clean and the passengers were civil. But things too are changing there. Toward the end of my time there, a man named Bas van Wijk was shot and killed on a beautiful summer day at a picnic at a park. A criminal demanded his friend’s watch; Bas stood up for his friend.
Edit: good grief, blasting music dude brought his own tambourine and maracas to arrhythmically bang/shake along.
I used to be poorly paid and indifferent, being stuck working retail to pay for expenses in college. (Well, maybe less indifferent, since I had a reputation for being proactive and getting things...
I used to be poorly paid and indifferent, being stuck working retail to pay for expenses in college. (Well, maybe less indifferent, since I had a reputation for being proactive and getting things done, but definitely resentful toward customers.) Most of us would have loved to have been able to inform customers they were no longer welcome for their awful behavior, and for the company to back us up on it.
Having fewer customers, with a minimum expectation of conduct on their part, is one of the few things that would have a dramatic improvement on morale in customer facing jobs. Even if pay drastically went up, retail is still an awful environment.
I've long had a policy of only doing weekday matinees to avoid other theatergoers, but even that's not enough anymore. The last thing I saw during release was Furious 7. It was a nearly-empty...
I've long had a policy of only doing weekday matinees to avoid other theatergoers, but even that's not enough anymore.
The last thing I saw during release was Furious 7. It was a nearly-empty theater on a scorching day and I had perfect seats. As the movie starts, an older dude walks in and sits directly in front of me, like this, and proceeds to spend the whole movie with his phone held high, reading emails. I think he was just trying to beat the heat.
I was apoplectic because I can't keep any kind of perspective on these things, and so I've never gone back to a theater. A smaller screen in a controlled environment is so much better that it doesn't feel like a compromise.
It's the lack of self awareness that surprises me in situations like that. Sit towards the back where nobody behind you is bothered by the phone, and everyone wins.
It's the lack of self awareness that surprises me in situations like that. Sit towards the back where nobody behind you is bothered by the phone, and everyone wins.
i said similar things here a couple weeks ago and people responded that i was just a redditor saying typical reddit talking points.
At least I'm patient enough to wait for that time and also have a decent setup at home to watch movies if I want to avoid the theatres altogether (which is most of the time nowadays due to pricing).
i said similar things here a couple weeks ago and people responded that i was just a redditor saying typical reddit talking points.
You and the other deleted comment have mentioned this but the only people who have said anything about me being another redditor is you two. Maybe you saw the same similar post to mine or...
You and the other deleted comment have mentioned this but the only people who have said anything about me being another redditor is you two. Maybe you saw the same similar post to mine or something? My post is a day old and no one else has mentioned anything like that so I'm not quite sure what either of you are talking about.
good to hear. i was the other deleted [removed, actually] comment, so i thought i'd test why it was removed by posting the same sentiments in a slightly different way.
good to hear. i was the other deleted [removed, actually] comment, so i thought i'd test why it was removed by posting the same sentiments in a slightly different way.
Sadly, people today are addicted to their device no matter where they're at. There is no more social etiquette...in fact, the new norm is to have phones out 😂
Sadly, people today are addicted to their device no matter where they're at. There is no more social etiquette...in fact, the new norm is to have phones out 😂
I understand the sentiment but it almost seems that your comment is excusing the behavior as, "that's just how it is now." Completely avoiding the phone issue, the core of the problem is a rising...
I understand the sentiment but it almost seems that your comment is excusing the behavior as, "that's just how it is now." Completely avoiding the phone issue, the core of the problem is a rising disregard for others - in general. I don't know when it happened in the US but I see it online in videos all the time and have personally witnessed it the few times I've been back to the states. I left ten years ago and it wasn't like this then but now it seems like it's everywhere. I don't know how everyone in the US feels about it but it's honestly really scary to me and makes how free I feel just walking around overseas a testament to the constant paranoia of the other in the US. Karens and their male equivalents, public freakouts, priveleged meltdowns, agressive policing, agressive everything, everyone is running around with both a victim mentality and a take no shit attitude. I really am at a loss to even begin to think what's causing all this or maybe it's just not as bad as I percieve it to be, I'm hardly in the States after all.
There was an incident here a few weeks ago at a movie theater popular with American expats. A family brought a two year old to the Spider Man movie, a grossly inapropriate age for such a movie. The toddler was making a fuss, of course, and disturbing the movie goers. A family next to them said something and the offending family replied that it was the two-year old's birthday so suck it up. Sensing this wouldn't go anywhere good the guy took his wife and three kids and got a refund. Something is majorly wrong when it's okay for a fmaily to bring a todler to a film where he disrupts everyone and then doubly a man feels that asking the offending family to behave in a civilized manner by taking the toddler to the lobby while he calms down to be not worth the risk of escalation so they are forced to leave. You should have seen the arguments this sparked on the American Facebook group for our city
I feel like I'm just ranting now
Going back the the issue with cell phones, I've been watching The Handmaiden's Tale and noticed last night that in the near-future-theocratic-traditional-values-environmentalist society of Gilead, no one ever uses a cell phone. Then it struck me as odd that most major religions don't outright prohibit the devices these days because they're so addictive. I used to be an enthusiast of the technology, buying the latest and greatest, loading custom roms and software. I remember telling people how much I loved smartphone technology, cringe. These days I'm starting to feel more and more like the platforms are seriously dangerous. I still use them and consume social media but now I've limited it to during breaks at work or maybe once or twice at home on the weekends, for the most part the phone goes in my bedroom when I get home and stays there. The really scary part was hwo much I would think of or crave having my phone when I first started this
You have a lot of different statements in your post, so I'm not going to delve into all of them, or too deeply for that matter, but I have to (hopefully politely) disagree with your assessment on...
You have a lot of different statements in your post, so I'm not going to delve into all of them, or too deeply for that matter, but I have to (hopefully politely) disagree with your assessment on a few fundamental levels.
Karens and their male equivalents, public freakouts, priveleged meltdowns, agressive policing, agressive everything, everyone is running around with both a victim mentality and a take no shit attitude.
I am not regularly seeing any of this in the U.S. when I walk through downtown streets, go shopping, or go to restaurants. I think social media, news organizations, and television is rage-baiting us for engagement regularly. These are the exactly types of posts that boost engagement, but the downside is they make us unhappy. If you browse something like reddit now, you're going to see the publicfreakout sub pop up frequently.
Yes, people are sometimes jerks. Yes, I would agree with you that it may be more common now than it used to be, but it's in no way the only thing going on. How do we even confirm if it's actually more common? We talk about it more now, we take pictures or videos of it and we dwell on it more now. When I was a kid if someone was a jerk to me you walked away if you could and tried to move on with your life. As an adult, if I am friendly when I am out in the world, if I smile, make eye contact and gauge the person's reaction to that before I approach or speak to them, then I am generally received well. If I take no social cues into account and just approach random people asking random questions or for random things, then sometimes I get someone who doesn't want to talk to me. And why wouldn't I? Often I don't want to talk to people I don't know either.
Going back the the issue with cell phones, I've been watching The Handmaiden's Tale and noticed last night that in the near-future-theocratic-traditional-values-environmentalist society of Gilead, no one ever uses a cell phone. Then it struck me as odd that most major religions don't outright prohibit the devices these days because they're so addictive.
This is simply because the book was written around 1985, and like most content pre-cell phone, the plot depends on the lack of instant communication. Many plots going back hundreds of years revolve around a lack of information & lack of communication. Cell phones, and the internet sort of disrupt that.
I think you might be right on the first part or that it’s at least regional. Like I said in my post, I haven’t lived int he US for a decade so most of my exposure is online and when I do go back...
I think you might be right on the first part or that it’s at least regional. Like I said in my post, I haven’t lived int he US for a decade so most of my exposure is online and when I do go back it’s often to major cities that are not exactly the bastions of civilization that other parts of the US probably are.
To your second comment, I will have to completely disagree. The show‘s first season was based heavily on the book but the following seasons are a full departure. The world is replete with green technology and electric autos and life shown in Canada includes all modern conveniences that you’d expect from a contemporary story - to include cell phones. The fact that Gillead has none of this is a deliberate narrative, not simply because the book was written decades ago. It makes me ask the question if some of the policies of the authoritarian state are perhaps worthwhile despite the overall reprehensible nature of the government as a whole
Hate to go back to that low hanging fruit, but: 2016 started rolling the boulder, and the boulder crashed around the time of the pandemic. We were isolated for a while, but we're seeing the...
I don't know when it happened in the US but I see it online in videos all the time and have personally witnessed it the few times I've been back to the states.
Hate to go back to that low hanging fruit, but: 2016 started rolling the boulder, and the boulder crashed around the time of the pandemic. We were isolated for a while, but we're seeing the results now that people are going outside again.
I feel it's an inevitable result of societal unrest and growing populations (along with growing poverty) to have people stop caring for the community. The long term problems to solve are seemingly unrelated to the actual issues, but the answer lies in giving back some security in society.
Your microcosm of an anecdote likely came about because getting proper babysitting for a two year old (so, born during the pandemic) is expensive and getting out of the house for what may have been the first time since the kid was born reaching a boiling point. No time to care about others when your own mind is a wreck and your finances or environment don't allow for a day off. That can be solved by the theatre staff, but it's the equivalent of stomping on a roach and leaving the spilled ice cream on the floor.
There was an age when I laughed at boomers going "phone bad" on their phones on social media—just because some kids use their phones. Of course that's still hypocrisy at best, and as some...
There was an age when I laughed at boomers going "phone bad" on their phones on social media—just because some kids use their phones. Of course that's still hypocrisy at best, and as some anti-intellectualist circles show, insanity at worst...
But people who genuinely seem addicted to their phones to the point they can't sit through a movie in a theater really work hard to give these nutters ammunition.
Ultimately, though, I still don't think it's the phones' fault. These are networked portable computers. I have outsourced dysfunctional parts of my brain to my phone. It's a fantastic crutch. I'm dependent. Yet, I still wouldn't whip out my phone at a theater.
In a hypothetical where I'm at a theater, my memory is even worse, and I do feel the need to make notes on my phone etc., I think I'd still use AMOLED black mode etc. etc. to try my best to just... not be rude.
These people aren't merely dependent, they're jerks. I think the problem is no one firmly shows them out, or could. They'd make a fuss and lie on social media. There have literally been no negative consequences for jerk behavior for a long time.
As a counterpoint, to me this reads as "some people in some places sucked so lets pretend it's everywhere". I can only speak anecdotally, but I haven't seen this behavior in any movie i've seen? I...
As a counterpoint, to me this reads as "some people in some places sucked so lets pretend it's everywhere".
I can only speak anecdotally, but I haven't seen this behavior in any movie i've seen? I think once in the last 10 years I had someone sitting in front of me who just had their phone out the whole movie texting, and other than that it's been basically the usual experience (the occasional obnoxious kid or adult but hardly as described in the article).
Obviously this is just my experience, but it's not like i'm going to any special theater (they are mostly in hotels, but that just means a lot of tourists as well).
It makes sense, really. How many succesful plane flights are heard about? We only hear about the plane crashes or near crashes. Maybe it's also a regional thing or even a specific movie theater...
It makes sense, really. How many succesful plane flights are heard about? We only hear about the plane crashes or near crashes.
Maybe it's also a regional thing or even a specific movie theater thing?
My anectodal experiences basically mirror yours. I've been to the movies the most in my life since Regal Unlimited was released and I've never encountered any kind of shenanigans once the movie started. There were a time when a group of high schoolers were messing around like typical high schoolers during the previews but calmed down when the movie started. Then another time there was an old man who I believe was hard of hearing trying to explain a scene to his confused elderly wife. Out of the last nearly 200 trips those were the only two potential "annoyances" I ran into (and honestly the old man was kind of endearing in his endeavor to explain it to her).
The 2 main theaters we go to are both hometown/small town movie theaters where ushers routinely come in during the movie and walk around.
While I agree that the WSJ article is a bit overblown (to be fair, every op-ed in the WSJ reads as a “get off my lawn” piece), if we’re going with anecdotal evidence, since the start of the...
While I agree that the WSJ article is a bit overblown (to be fair, every op-ed in the WSJ reads as a “get off my lawn” piece), if we’re going with anecdotal evidence, since the start of the pandemic, I haven’t been to a movie in theaters where there wasn’t at least one person with their phone out the entire time (texting, scrolling social media, browsing the internet, etc.). At least most people I’ve seen do this have the “decency” to turn their brightness down to minimum (although at least once someone was watching YouTube with the screen brightness on full tilt). What I’ve found much worse is that, again anecdotally, I’ve noticed people talking at normal or above-normal levels throughout the film. I’ve had to sush people before over this, and generally it’s been responded to well.
I think that there is an appreciable increase in rudeness (or at least inconsiderateness) among moviegoers post-pandemic. I’d ascribe it to a few things - the first being of course that the pandemic caused a massive cultural regression and people are less considerate about their surroundings in general. But more specifically as to theaters, I think that as we all become accustomed to watching movies at home, we develop bad habits (unfocused watching, co-watching with our phones, chatting throughout the film) and we take those habits with us to the theater.
I love going to the movies, but not because I get to share the experience with a crowd (my favorite movie theater experiences have always been in empty theaters with me and my friends). I don’t think we’ll ever return to a pre-pandemic era of movie watching. I recently saw a European movie theater (I think it was in the Netherlands?) that was converting their theater seats into little cubicles (like on international flights) with a lay-flat seat and amenities like chargers and shelves. I think that’s one of the best attempts at adaptation I’ve seen from a movie theater. But really, when you start thinking about value, theaters aren’t keeping up with the latest in home AV tech. I think they’re dinosaurs that won’t make it another decade - especially if Hollywood doesn’t start producing really compelling films.
Yeah I'm in the same boat. I go to the theater about once a week, and I only see this kind of thing very rarely. I'm sure that the theaters you go to and the types of movies you see effect this. I...
Yeah I'm in the same boat. I go to the theater about once a week, and I only see this kind of thing very rarely. I'm sure that the theaters you go to and the types of movies you see effect this. I think this kind of comes into play for my personal experience, but I'm not sure. Maybe like 50% of the movies I see are at rep houses, which could explain something, but I dunno, I go to a lot of normal movies at normal theaters too.
When people talk about it like this is something they expect to see at the theater, it seems off to me. It's totally not fair for me to act like everyone else is blowing it out of proportion, but I'm pretty sure I go to the theater more than most people, so it just seems wrong that I see so little of it. Maybe it's more of a regional thing or something?
The behavior of the general public is the #1 reason I haven't stepped foot into a theater since pre-COVID. I don't know what the solution to this problem is. Asking low-wage theater workers to...
The behavior of the general public is the #1 reason I haven't stepped foot into a theater since pre-COVID. I don't know what the solution to this problem is. Asking low-wage theater workers to start altercations with people who obviously don't give a shit about anyone else probably isn't going to fly (we saw how well that went with mask mandates). Will theaters have to start hiring actual security guards with scary-looking vests to intimidate people into compliance? Or is this just the way it's going to be?
If these theater owners want to stay in business, they should add a couple of intimidating security guards to their staff roster and start enforcing courteous behavior minimum standards. It might...
If these theater owners want to stay in business, they should add a couple of intimidating security guards to their staff roster and start enforcing courteous behavior minimum standards. It might not be enough, but it might help. What they are doing now is not going to work.
I'm right here with you, and I don't know if there is a solution either. I fundamentally question if the marketplace even wants a solution. I honestly feel like I've lost the theater as someone...
I'm right here with you, and I don't know if there is a solution either. I fundamentally question if the marketplace even wants a solution. I honestly feel like I've lost the theater as someone who used to enjoy it. I have been recently, I went to see The Mario Movie with my 5 year old. The audience was fine. Our seats were so large and far apart, and we sat closer to the screen so no ones phones bothered us, but the center channel was cranked so loud that it literally hurt my ears. The screen was so bright that my eyes never adjusted. It was still not an enjoyable experience.
I don't really have a solution, and frankly, if letting kids use their phones puts asses in the seats for cinemas, then I'm okay with that. If the majority of the audience wants to participate in this way, then so be it. Honestly, there's something to it, we can all enjoy it when the active engagement is with a midnight screening of The Rocky Horror Picture Show.
Yeah, agreed. I'm not trying to stop "progress", but if that's what the new theater experience is, I'm fine with not partaking. Or going exclusively to a place like Alamo Drafthouse which actually...
if letting kids use their phones puts asses in the seats for cinemas, then I'm okay with that. If the majority of the audience wants to participate in this way, then so be it.
Yeah, agreed. I'm not trying to stop "progress", but if that's what the new theater experience is, I'm fine with not partaking. Or going exclusively to a place like Alamo Drafthouse which actually has and openly enforces their policies.
Maybe having separate screenings would help?
I'm not sure... people are selfish. The people using their phones might be annoyed with the presence of other people using their phones, and decide to go to the non-phone screening because they feel superior, or couldn't get seats to the other screening, or whatever reason. We're talking about people who already disregard the actual rules of the theater (no phone) and don't give a crap about anyone else. Why would they obey a new system?
I'm sure the market would love a solution that puts asses in seats. It might be a regional thing, a theater thing or a staff thing. The only "problems" I can remember having in a movie theater...
I'm sure the market would love a solution that puts asses in seats.
It might be a regional thing, a theater thing or a staff thing. The only "problems" I can remember having in a movie theater (people throwing popcorn, a drink go sailing into the front row, etc) was in an old $1 move theater in a poorer part of town. Coincidently, ushers never came in and checked during a movie. Every other theater I've been to has never had a single issue. I can't answer if it was the crowd that the price point brought in, the location or a lack of consequences.
I feel you on the extra loud channels. There is 1 screen in particular in our 12 screen cinema that gives me such a horrible headache due to the volume. It was so loud it was that action scenes on that screen were drowning out dialogue in the surrounding screens. I've learned to either avoid that screen or sit as far back as possible if its unavoidable. I did mention it a few times to the manager and it got better for maybe 3-6 months.
Unfortunately, I don't think separate screenings would accomplish anything. Few people will self-label themselves for the "asshole screening" where phones and disruptions would be permitted.
This is an issue I've encountered anytime I attend a chain theater. I also regularly attend smaller, local theaters and this issue is non-existent. For anyone with access to local theaters you'll...
This is an issue I've encountered anytime I attend a chain theater. I also regularly attend smaller, local theaters and this issue is non-existent.
For anyone with access to local theaters you'll almost certainly find the experience of watching a film to be superior and you'll likely be supporting a local business. I realize that not everyone has access to theaters like that, but if you do and you're complaining about chain theaters, consider trying some of the smaller ones around you.
If you’re on iOS I recommend this shortcut. Install it and choose “Show in share sheet.” Now whenever you hit a paywalled article you can tap the share button in Safari and run the shortcut to...
If you’re on iOS I recommend this shortcut. Install it and choose “Show in share sheet.” Now whenever you hit a paywalled article you can tap the share button in Safari and run the shortcut to fetch the Archive.is scrape of that URL.
If you’re using a desktop browser, the Bypass Paywalls Clean add-on is what you’re looking for. Additionally, everyone (yes, everyone) should be running uBlock Origin. Its default settings are fantastic but you can add third-party lists like this one that specifically target paywalls too.
The Lion, The Witch, and the audacity of This Bitch.
People pulling out cameras and filming movies is obviously disrespectful. I think most people would be upset about people whipping out a camera and filming some powerful monologue at the end of a movie but maybe I'm just old or something. It sucks that people paying premium prices have to deal with this stuff, I think the best way to deal with this is to catch the movies a few weeks after release when recording this stuff is not going to be hot footage for social media.
At least I'm patient enough to wait for that time and also have a decent setup at home to watch movies if I want to avoid the theatres altogether (which is most of the time nowadays due to pricing).
More movie theater companies just need to grow a spine and eject people. It's one of my favorite features of Alamo Drafthouse: if you're disruptive (which includes having a phone visible), they'll throw you out, ban you, and maybe make fun of you as a warning to future customers.
Shaming people in movie theaters for being disruptive is legit cinema history. It's how the first theaters in the US taught the movie-going public movie-going manners. And if you were found to be the annoying, the house spotlight would be on you in the dark theater and everyone had a free go at roasting you. So glad to hear it still exists in Alamo Drafthouse.
No, not shaming.
Simply throwing them out for the same reasons people were thrown out before. Disruptive behaviour, excessive noise. Or phones out. Are you filming for distribution? No way to know. Put it away or you'll be escorted out.
I feel like "shaming" is too much of an emotional word, and too vague to accurately describe what needs to be done by the employees as these venues.
Whether those people feel shame is irrelevant. If they did they wouldn't be acting like that to begin with.
I would say the issues with throwing people out (at least most theatres near me) is that they're staffed with a skeleton crew of 16-22 year olds. On top of that, you risk the patron getting more irate and causing more of a scene too ruining the experience even more.
While it causes a temporary disturbance while escorting people away, I'd say the overall effect would be positive.
I've been a manager, and one of the things I always taught employees was that not all money has the same value.
Money from an antagonistic person is worth much less, since other customers seeing that bad behaviour will then avoid the establishment in the future to avoid experiencing more of the same.
Being paid for your services by 1 person causing a ruckus in bad faith means losing several other regular customers. People that will go on to tell others about the bad experience, causing others to be more likely to avoid the place too.
Whereas declining to service troublemakers means others will notice that they can expect the establishment to work at providing a pleasant service/time spent there. Including telling others about troublemakers being denied service, which also has benefits.
Proof is in the pudding. Cinemas around the world are experiencing a decline in sales.
Tickets are much more expensive than before as it is. Why would you want to pay for that if you hear your friends and family tell you about the inconsiderate and rude behaviour that was allowed to happen?
I really feel like today's adults have collectively stopped taking the adult role in society. As if the expectation to step up and step in was never placed on us as much as in earlier times.
There is a much lower chance of anyone at all speaking up against shitty behaviours today. We're all looking for that "adultier adult", rather than doing the social adulting ourselves, in a sense.
I think this is a correlation/causation issue. Cinemas are declining for several reasons that are much larger than some rowdy customers. Pandemic impacts, the rise of streaming and the decrease in time between theatre -> streaming service, TV's becoming cheaper and larger, increased ticket prices, and now strikes are happening with a looming recession over our heads.
there's more people and that makes the world a more isolated place, paradoxically enough. You may take the time to care if you know a person and want them to not make a scene. When it's a different person every day making a different scene, you get desensitized. You're never seeing that person again and the behavior continues.
You're not teaching one person a lesson, you're becoming society's nanny. And that's a very draining title to take on while you have other worries with yourself and faimly.
You're right.
I didn't think of it like that, but I fully agree.
If everyone was expected to, and did speak up it wouldn't be such a huge threshold for any individual. Nor would anyone have to say or do much on their own either, I don't think. A little bit of societal pressure from a lot of people vs just 1 person.
This is an interesting point that I hadn't thought of but definitely seems to have some truth to it. I wonder if longer life expectancy has anything to do with that? The last few generations grew up with the elders not ever really dying, and with that had less opportunities for stepping up in the leadership roles in their careers and communities. Maybe with that the societal etiquette took a downturn because as the generations grew older they never really had to fill those roles? I don't have anything to back that up, just pure conjecture.
The lack of social policing is noticeable in the US.
Right now I’m riding the BART train in SF and trying to read a book I had just bought from my favorite queer bookstore, but some dude is blasting his music on a portable speaker. It’s incredibly rude. The other week, I saw a bucket of half-eaten melted ice cream left on a BART seat: the motion of the train had jostled it many times, and its melted contents covered several seats and smeared a large section of the floor.
In a functioning society, people would stand up for what’s right and proper. But we fear retaliation.
I remember when I first moved to Amsterdam, an elderly man berated me for riding my bicycle on the sidewalk. There, the public transit was clean and the passengers were civil. But things too are changing there. Toward the end of my time there, a man named Bas van Wijk was shot and killed on a beautiful summer day at a picnic at a park. A criminal demanded his friend’s watch; Bas stood up for his friend.
Edit: good grief, blasting music dude brought his own tambourine and maracas to arrhythmically bang/shake along.
I could help but laugh out loud at your edit. While terrible for you, it's a really funny situation to imagine!
This relates to how Tildes is run. Good analysis.
The story goes that the Alamo banned Madonna for texting. I imagine those employees can still feel that rush.
It’s not just growing a spine. You’d have to also hire staff that isn’t poorly paid and indifferent.
I used to be poorly paid and indifferent, being stuck working retail to pay for expenses in college. (Well, maybe less indifferent, since I had a reputation for being proactive and getting things done, but definitely resentful toward customers.) Most of us would have loved to have been able to inform customers they were no longer welcome for their awful behavior, and for the company to back us up on it.
Having fewer customers, with a minimum expectation of conduct on their part, is one of the few things that would have a dramatic improvement on morale in customer facing jobs. Even if pay drastically went up, retail is still an awful environment.
I've long had a policy of only doing weekday matinees to avoid other theatergoers, but even that's not enough anymore.
The last thing I saw during release was Furious 7. It was a nearly-empty theater on a scorching day and I had perfect seats. As the movie starts, an older dude walks in and sits directly in front of me, like this, and proceeds to spend the whole movie with his phone held high, reading emails. I think he was just trying to beat the heat.
I was apoplectic because I can't keep any kind of perspective on these things, and so I've never gone back to a theater. A smaller screen in a controlled environment is so much better that it doesn't feel like a compromise.
It's the lack of self awareness that surprises me in situations like that. Sit towards the back where nobody behind you is bothered by the phone, and everyone wins.
i said similar things here a couple weeks ago and people responded that i was just a redditor saying typical reddit talking points.
You and the other deleted comment have mentioned this but the only people who have said anything about me being another redditor is you two. Maybe you saw the same similar post to mine or something? My post is a day old and no one else has mentioned anything like that so I'm not quite sure what either of you are talking about.
good to hear. i was the other deleted [removed, actually] comment, so i thought i'd test why it was removed by posting the same sentiments in a slightly different way.
Sadly, people today are addicted to their device no matter where they're at. There is no more social etiquette...in fact, the new norm is to have phones out 😂
I understand the sentiment but it almost seems that your comment is excusing the behavior as, "that's just how it is now." Completely avoiding the phone issue, the core of the problem is a rising disregard for others - in general. I don't know when it happened in the US but I see it online in videos all the time and have personally witnessed it the few times I've been back to the states. I left ten years ago and it wasn't like this then but now it seems like it's everywhere. I don't know how everyone in the US feels about it but it's honestly really scary to me and makes how free I feel just walking around overseas a testament to the constant paranoia of the other in the US. Karens and their male equivalents, public freakouts, priveleged meltdowns, agressive policing, agressive everything, everyone is running around with both a victim mentality and a take no shit attitude. I really am at a loss to even begin to think what's causing all this or maybe it's just not as bad as I percieve it to be, I'm hardly in the States after all.
There was an incident here a few weeks ago at a movie theater popular with American expats. A family brought a two year old to the Spider Man movie, a grossly inapropriate age for such a movie. The toddler was making a fuss, of course, and disturbing the movie goers. A family next to them said something and the offending family replied that it was the two-year old's birthday so suck it up. Sensing this wouldn't go anywhere good the guy took his wife and three kids and got a refund. Something is majorly wrong when it's okay for a fmaily to bring a todler to a film where he disrupts everyone and then doubly a man feels that asking the offending family to behave in a civilized manner by taking the toddler to the lobby while he calms down to be not worth the risk of escalation so they are forced to leave. You should have seen the arguments this sparked on the American Facebook group for our city
I feel like I'm just ranting now
Going back the the issue with cell phones, I've been watching The Handmaiden's Tale and noticed last night that in the near-future-theocratic-traditional-values-environmentalist society of Gilead, no one ever uses a cell phone. Then it struck me as odd that most major religions don't outright prohibit the devices these days because they're so addictive. I used to be an enthusiast of the technology, buying the latest and greatest, loading custom roms and software. I remember telling people how much I loved smartphone technology, cringe. These days I'm starting to feel more and more like the platforms are seriously dangerous. I still use them and consume social media but now I've limited it to during breaks at work or maybe once or twice at home on the weekends, for the most part the phone goes in my bedroom when I get home and stays there. The really scary part was hwo much I would think of or crave having my phone when I first started this
rant over
You have a lot of different statements in your post, so I'm not going to delve into all of them, or too deeply for that matter, but I have to (hopefully politely) disagree with your assessment on a few fundamental levels.
I am not regularly seeing any of this in the U.S. when I walk through downtown streets, go shopping, or go to restaurants. I think social media, news organizations, and television is rage-baiting us for engagement regularly. These are the exactly types of posts that boost engagement, but the downside is they make us unhappy. If you browse something like reddit now, you're going to see the publicfreakout sub pop up frequently.
Yes, people are sometimes jerks. Yes, I would agree with you that it may be more common now than it used to be, but it's in no way the only thing going on. How do we even confirm if it's actually more common? We talk about it more now, we take pictures or videos of it and we dwell on it more now. When I was a kid if someone was a jerk to me you walked away if you could and tried to move on with your life. As an adult, if I am friendly when I am out in the world, if I smile, make eye contact and gauge the person's reaction to that before I approach or speak to them, then I am generally received well. If I take no social cues into account and just approach random people asking random questions or for random things, then sometimes I get someone who doesn't want to talk to me. And why wouldn't I? Often I don't want to talk to people I don't know either.
This is simply because the book was written around 1985, and like most content pre-cell phone, the plot depends on the lack of instant communication. Many plots going back hundreds of years revolve around a lack of information & lack of communication. Cell phones, and the internet sort of disrupt that.
I think you might be right on the first part or that it’s at least regional. Like I said in my post, I haven’t lived int he US for a decade so most of my exposure is online and when I do go back it’s often to major cities that are not exactly the bastions of civilization that other parts of the US probably are.
To your second comment, I will have to completely disagree. The show‘s first season was based heavily on the book but the following seasons are a full departure. The world is replete with green technology and electric autos and life shown in Canada includes all modern conveniences that you’d expect from a contemporary story - to include cell phones. The fact that Gillead has none of this is a deliberate narrative, not simply because the book was written decades ago. It makes me ask the question if some of the policies of the authoritarian state are perhaps worthwhile despite the overall reprehensible nature of the government as a whole
Hate to go back to that low hanging fruit, but: 2016 started rolling the boulder, and the boulder crashed around the time of the pandemic. We were isolated for a while, but we're seeing the results now that people are going outside again.
I feel it's an inevitable result of societal unrest and growing populations (along with growing poverty) to have people stop caring for the community. The long term problems to solve are seemingly unrelated to the actual issues, but the answer lies in giving back some security in society.
Your microcosm of an anecdote likely came about because getting proper babysitting for a two year old (so, born during the pandemic) is expensive and getting out of the house for what may have been the first time since the kid was born reaching a boiling point. No time to care about others when your own mind is a wreck and your finances or environment don't allow for a day off. That can be solved by the theatre staff, but it's the equivalent of stomping on a roach and leaving the spilled ice cream on the floor.
There was an age when I laughed at boomers going "phone bad" on their phones on social media—just because some kids use their phones. Of course that's still hypocrisy at best, and as some anti-intellectualist circles show, insanity at worst...
But people who genuinely seem addicted to their phones to the point they can't sit through a movie in a theater really work hard to give these nutters ammunition.
Ultimately, though, I still don't think it's the phones' fault. These are networked portable computers. I have outsourced dysfunctional parts of my brain to my phone. It's a fantastic crutch. I'm dependent. Yet, I still wouldn't whip out my phone at a theater.
In a hypothetical where I'm at a theater, my memory is even worse, and I do feel the need to make notes on my phone etc., I think I'd still use AMOLED black mode etc. etc. to try my best to just... not be rude.
These people aren't merely dependent, they're jerks. I think the problem is no one firmly shows them out, or could. They'd make a fuss and lie on social media. There have literally been no negative consequences for jerk behavior for a long time.
As a counterpoint, to me this reads as "some people in some places sucked so lets pretend it's everywhere".
I can only speak anecdotally, but I haven't seen this behavior in any movie i've seen? I think once in the last 10 years I had someone sitting in front of me who just had their phone out the whole movie texting, and other than that it's been basically the usual experience (the occasional obnoxious kid or adult but hardly as described in the article).
Obviously this is just my experience, but it's not like i'm going to any special theater (they are mostly in hotels, but that just means a lot of tourists as well).
It makes sense, really. How many succesful plane flights are heard about? We only hear about the plane crashes or near crashes.
Maybe it's also a regional thing or even a specific movie theater thing?
My anectodal experiences basically mirror yours. I've been to the movies the most in my life since Regal Unlimited was released and I've never encountered any kind of shenanigans once the movie started. There were a time when a group of high schoolers were messing around like typical high schoolers during the previews but calmed down when the movie started. Then another time there was an old man who I believe was hard of hearing trying to explain a scene to his confused elderly wife. Out of the last nearly 200 trips those were the only two potential "annoyances" I ran into (and honestly the old man was kind of endearing in his endeavor to explain it to her).
The 2 main theaters we go to are both hometown/small town movie theaters where ushers routinely come in during the movie and walk around.
While I agree that the WSJ article is a bit overblown (to be fair, every op-ed in the WSJ reads as a “get off my lawn” piece), if we’re going with anecdotal evidence, since the start of the pandemic, I haven’t been to a movie in theaters where there wasn’t at least one person with their phone out the entire time (texting, scrolling social media, browsing the internet, etc.). At least most people I’ve seen do this have the “decency” to turn their brightness down to minimum (although at least once someone was watching YouTube with the screen brightness on full tilt). What I’ve found much worse is that, again anecdotally, I’ve noticed people talking at normal or above-normal levels throughout the film. I’ve had to sush people before over this, and generally it’s been responded to well.
I think that there is an appreciable increase in rudeness (or at least inconsiderateness) among moviegoers post-pandemic. I’d ascribe it to a few things - the first being of course that the pandemic caused a massive cultural regression and people are less considerate about their surroundings in general. But more specifically as to theaters, I think that as we all become accustomed to watching movies at home, we develop bad habits (unfocused watching, co-watching with our phones, chatting throughout the film) and we take those habits with us to the theater.
I love going to the movies, but not because I get to share the experience with a crowd (my favorite movie theater experiences have always been in empty theaters with me and my friends). I don’t think we’ll ever return to a pre-pandemic era of movie watching. I recently saw a European movie theater (I think it was in the Netherlands?) that was converting their theater seats into little cubicles (like on international flights) with a lay-flat seat and amenities like chargers and shelves. I think that’s one of the best attempts at adaptation I’ve seen from a movie theater. But really, when you start thinking about value, theaters aren’t keeping up with the latest in home AV tech. I think they’re dinosaurs that won’t make it another decade - especially if Hollywood doesn’t start producing really compelling films.
Yeah I'm in the same boat. I go to the theater about once a week, and I only see this kind of thing very rarely. I'm sure that the theaters you go to and the types of movies you see effect this. I think this kind of comes into play for my personal experience, but I'm not sure. Maybe like 50% of the movies I see are at rep houses, which could explain something, but I dunno, I go to a lot of normal movies at normal theaters too.
When people talk about it like this is something they expect to see at the theater, it seems off to me. It's totally not fair for me to act like everyone else is blowing it out of proportion, but I'm pretty sure I go to the theater more than most people, so it just seems wrong that I see so little of it. Maybe it's more of a regional thing or something?
I agree. My experience is anecdotal as well, but I have no change to the movie going experience from pre-covid to now.
The behavior of the general public is the #1 reason I haven't stepped foot into a theater since pre-COVID. I don't know what the solution to this problem is. Asking low-wage theater workers to start altercations with people who obviously don't give a shit about anyone else probably isn't going to fly (we saw how well that went with mask mandates). Will theaters have to start hiring actual security guards with scary-looking vests to intimidate people into compliance? Or is this just the way it's going to be?
If these theater owners want to stay in business, they should add a couple of intimidating security guards to their staff roster and start enforcing courteous behavior minimum standards. It might not be enough, but it might help. What they are doing now is not going to work.
I'm right here with you, and I don't know if there is a solution either. I fundamentally question if the marketplace even wants a solution. I honestly feel like I've lost the theater as someone who used to enjoy it. I have been recently, I went to see The Mario Movie with my 5 year old. The audience was fine. Our seats were so large and far apart, and we sat closer to the screen so no ones phones bothered us, but the center channel was cranked so loud that it literally hurt my ears. The screen was so bright that my eyes never adjusted. It was still not an enjoyable experience.
I don't really have a solution, and frankly, if letting kids use their phones puts asses in the seats for cinemas, then I'm okay with that. If the majority of the audience wants to participate in this way, then so be it. Honestly, there's something to it, we can all enjoy it when the active engagement is with a midnight screening of The Rocky Horror Picture Show.
Maybe having separate screenings would help?
Yeah, agreed. I'm not trying to stop "progress", but if that's what the new theater experience is, I'm fine with not partaking. Or going exclusively to a place like Alamo Drafthouse which actually has and openly enforces their policies.
I'm not sure... people are selfish. The people using their phones might be annoyed with the presence of other people using their phones, and decide to go to the non-phone screening because they feel superior, or couldn't get seats to the other screening, or whatever reason. We're talking about people who already disregard the actual rules of the theater (no phone) and don't give a crap about anyone else. Why would they obey a new system?
I'm sure the market would love a solution that puts asses in seats.
It might be a regional thing, a theater thing or a staff thing. The only "problems" I can remember having in a movie theater (people throwing popcorn, a drink go sailing into the front row, etc) was in an old $1 move theater in a poorer part of town. Coincidently, ushers never came in and checked during a movie. Every other theater I've been to has never had a single issue. I can't answer if it was the crowd that the price point brought in, the location or a lack of consequences.
I feel you on the extra loud channels. There is 1 screen in particular in our 12 screen cinema that gives me such a horrible headache due to the volume. It was so loud it was that action scenes on that screen were drowning out dialogue in the surrounding screens. I've learned to either avoid that screen or sit as far back as possible if its unavoidable. I did mention it a few times to the manager and it got better for maybe 3-6 months.
Unfortunately, I don't think separate screenings would accomplish anything. Few people will self-label themselves for the "asshole screening" where phones and disruptions would be permitted.
This is an issue I've encountered anytime I attend a chain theater. I also regularly attend smaller, local theaters and this issue is non-existent.
For anyone with access to local theaters you'll almost certainly find the experience of watching a film to be superior and you'll likely be supporting a local business. I realize that not everyone has access to theaters like that, but if you do and you're complaining about chain theaters, consider trying some of the smaller ones around you.
Anybody got a paywall free one? 12 foot ladder didn’t work for me
https://archive.is/vadYb
If you’re on iOS I recommend this shortcut. Install it and choose “Show in share sheet.” Now whenever you hit a paywalled article you can tap the share button in Safari and run the shortcut to fetch the Archive.is scrape of that URL.
If you’re using a desktop browser, the Bypass Paywalls Clean add-on is what you’re looking for. Additionally, everyone (yes, everyone) should be running uBlock Origin. Its default settings are fantastic but you can add third-party lists like this one that specifically target paywalls too.
i really appreciate it, thanks!
Can you expand on what you mean by this?
So NYT no longer working via 12ft means "bought out" with no other actual proof of it?
Then maybe state such in the original comment, not simply say it's bought out like it's a fact. Not appreciated here, this isn't reddit.
That’s a real disappointment. It used to work for almost everything :’(