Last Jedi Opinions? So Solo is not doing so well in theaters

I thought Last Jedi was okay. There were some scenes I despised (Leia doing the superman through space back to the ship) and I thought the "pogs" or whatever they were were annoying and a merchandising gimmick. But I think the movie overall wasn't terrible. At least it was original and not just a reboot of Episode IV like Force Awakens was.

I haven't seen it yet but from what I've heard from heard from friends it is good. And what I read from online forums is disheartening. People hate it who haven't even watched it because they don't like the new sequels. They hate TLJ and won't give Solo a chance.

I think the real problem is people who grew up on star wars. When they watched Star Wars as children they put these movies on the highest pedestal. You can only watch a movie for the first time once and if that was more than a decade ago with the benefit of child like wonder and rose colored glasses your expectations will not be met.

Haven't seen Solo yet, but I really enjoyed TLJ. I have no idea why, but it seemed like I felt more watching it than many other Star Wars movies, which is weird considering I've been watching the original trilogy since I was 3 and love them to death. But the jump to lightspeed moment? It's a gut punch every time I see it, and I wasn't expecting that from TLJ.

More generally, it has its silly moments (like... most Star Wars movies), and boy do a lot of characters fuck up. I've seen both of those things criticized, but it was kind of refreshing for there to be big consequences for the actions of heroic characters, and the idea that a large side quest was ultimately fruitless for the characters doesn't make it pointless in the story (for me).

TLDR: TLJ was terrible enough that I won't give Disney more Star Wars money. If it's good, I'll maybe pirate it when I forget about the Sequels.

TLJ was a mess. Bad writing, pointless story, incompetent enemies, incompetent leadership.... It was visually stunning. I'll give it that. It's beautiful. But the story... Just simple things like: Why not fire at the transports first? Why not shot Poe? Where are the Y-Wings? Why not say "There is a plan"? Why is Rose in this movie? Why is the casino planet in this movie? Since when can Leia fly? (And, against common criticism of that scene: She flew in an airlock. They paid attention to that.)

Also, Luke: Do you remember the guy from the original triology, who saw some good in Darth Vader? Ad decided to redeem him? In what universe would that guy even come close to considering attacking Kylo for having some Dark in him?

Oh, and Rey Sue. Name tells you everything I dislike about her.

Also, the film retroactively ruined all spacecombat in SW with one simple thing: Lightspeed missiles are now a thing. In a universe those exist, no ship like a Stardestroyer has any business existing.

The problem with TLJ isn't that it's a bad movie (it's not), it's that it doesn't really feel like a Star Wars movie. There are many problems with the tone. Much of the humor is oddly placed and makes it feel more like a Marvel film. The bombing sequence is straight from a WWII film. Rian literally showed his creative team his favorite WWII film bombing sequences and said, make it look like that. Then there is Leia Mary Poppins, Luke's lightsaber toss, force broom kid, and more. Again, none of these elements are inherently bad, they just feel very out of place in a SW film.

I did enjoy TLJ, but I'd put it pretty far down the list if I ranked all the SW movies. I like to say it this way, the prequels were bad movies but good SW movies. The sequels are good movies but bad SW movies.

Personally, I enjoyed TLJ more than any other Star Wars thing we've had since RotJ. I think a lot of people had a hard time grappling with Luke not being this perfect saint they saw him as when they were children. It's really satisfying to me to have them explore that hint of unchained darkness in the OT that made Luke a more balanced character than the Jedi that came before him. It could have been even better if they put their foot down and really went with this anti-force or at least grey direction, but I really like what we got.

I wasn't a fan of the casino scene, but most every Star Wars film has something like that for me.

Tonally, I thought it hit the Star Wars vibe much better than TFA did. I didn't have a problem with TFA having a copy and pasted plot or whatever, but the humor and constant HEY REMEMBER THIS FROM THE OT just didn't feel right to me.

TLJ did so many things wrong - I don't care about the physics of the bombing mission (it's Star Wars, not the Expanse, after all) or the porgs (cute animals to sell toys have been a thing since the Ewoks) but the "your momma" prank call destroyed the mood from the get-go. Leia's Mary Poppins scene (and offhand way to kill off Admiral Akbar). The whole pointless casino scene. The silly space chase. I could go on. So much potential from TFA wasted. Sure some great visuals but that's table stakes these days.

I get what Rian Johnson was trying to do by "subverting your expectations" and "letting go of the past" but you have to do it right - see what Marvel did with Infinity War for example. I'm surprised Lucasfilm let this film go through with such sloppy writing and editing. And before people say I'm just another bitter old fan, my kids had the same opinion, to the point where they've refused to go and see the Solo movie as Star Wars is "over".

I actually enjoyed TLJ. I actually wished they went further with it, as it is, it's still a bit too black and white for me. And even though I did enjoy it, it was a fairly problematic film. I didn't mind the poggs, but hated the whole side mission with Finn and Rose.

I loved it. Everything I've read about Solo (spoilers), I am gonna love it too. I don't get the hate, but whatever. People are entitled to their opinions and I respect that even if I disagree with it.

I absolutely loved it. The Star Wars Stories are a heck of a lot better than the new mainline ones. Thinking about how little time Ron had to fix this and how good it is I’d love them to let him loose on his own Star Wars movie to see what he could do.

I loved Solo and word of mouth is the most powerful form of advertising. If you ask me, I think the problem was the release date and lack of marketing. I can't count how many people I told about the movie and they said, "oh that's coming out today? I didn't even know!" I have become used to going to the Star Wars films with my family around Christmas and then Bam! Right in the middle of summer.

As for the Last Jedi, it was alright.

I loved TLJ and TFA! I grew up watching episodes 4, 5, & 6 and I can’t believe we get to have more Star Wars movies today. I feel like a little kid again at every new film. Just saw Solo as well and I liked it, except for the score. It made me sad, you could tell someone on the artistic team didn’t trust the storytelling, so they tried to up the emotional stakes through the music and totally overdid it. I’d have enjoyed it a lot more if the score was different. Anyway, what I loved the most about TLJ was how it subverted my expectations and passed the torch on to the next generation. I love Rey, Finn, and Rose the most. Didn’t love the casino subplot but understood why it was there. Wanted more Finn, am hoping he’ll have more to do in the next film. I do enjoy fan service, but I’d rather have creative storytelling that hooks me in emotionally and challenges my expectations.

It's funny to me. When I came out of the movie I had an opinion that it was just okay. There were moments where I felt it was nearing something really great and doing things that were interesting with the source material. In particular it was doing what I though would be interesting in conflating the difference between Rey and Kylo and attempting to reorient the ideas of dark and light in this universe. However, this subversion was instead ultimately itself "subverted" into simply doubling down on everything already while simultaneously throwing everything set up from the first to the wind. When I took some time to unpack my thoughts and go over everything, that's when I really started to dislike it all.

I think the hate train is perhaps collapsed in on itself with the density of some dying star, but none of the criticism is unfounded; it's simply hyperbolic and a bit too vitriolic. I am not a Star Wars fan boy. I enjoyed TFA for presenting me likeable enough characters and giving off this feel of a universe which has persisted and changed over the years we've been away, and that was interesting and genuinely anticipatory for me. I looked forward to where the story would go. But TLJ did things with such a blasé, cavalier attitude that seemed to snub its nose at not only the expectations of the hardcore fanbase, but at the very characters and storylines of its predecessor. This is where the movie just loses all of its appeal for me.

There's little I can say about the specifics of the film that hasn't already been said, so I won't get into it so much. But to answer your question, I'm not sure if TLJ is to blame for Solo or not. I was never interested in it, and I wasn't even interested in Rogue One (a movie I also did not care for). I think most people had no interest in a Han Solo film because everyone understood that Harrison Ford was that character. I have a passing interest in seeing what they did with the thing, but it's only out of a morbid curiosity rather than genuine excitement. And in all honesty the only film that made me genuinely excited for the next one was TFA. You can say what you will about its flaws. I know there are many and agree with just about all of them. But it captured the ethos of Star Wars very well. TLJ did not do that. And I suppose that was evidently the point, but in my opinion it was done with no tact, skill, or genuinity in any way.

The Last Jedi didn’t feel like a Star Wars film to me, as the plot and character development seemed much less focused than previous Star Wars films, including the prequels. Instead of developing the core group introduced in The Force Awakens, they keep introducing too many new characters and too many tangent story lines. It almost feels like the script was written for a TV series or Marvel movie, where that kind of expansion is allowed for. Rogue One had the same issue. We’re introduced to an entirely new group of characters, but since so little Time is devoted to exploring those characters, they just feel disposable.

I think Solo's box office performance is more related to the release compared to those of Infinity War and Deadpool 2. Going to the movies isn't cheap - especially for the target demographic of both Infinity War and Solo. Tickets and concessions can easily be $15-$25/person, or $100 for a family of four, which is a tough ask twice (or three times) in a month. I'd wager that more people would rather see Infinity War than Solo, especially since it's 10 years in the making. Couple that with lazy marketing, what should we have expected to see?

I don't think Lucasfilm/Disney would have spent the money they did on re-shooting almost the entire movie if they didn't have faith in the long-term gains that Solo has the potential to bring. It is easily the most-fun Star Wars movie made since Disney acquired the franchise.

I enjoyed The Last Jedi, but I certainly understand the criticism it gets, but I don't think the divisive reception of the movie would have much of an effect on Solo's performance.

To me, Rey is a representation of everything that's wrong with the way SW Canon is shaping into and heading. They use her character to trivialize the force and the training required behind it to even begin to understand/use/master it. They basically mary-sue her and shoehorn her as the role of the heroine.

Her attitude really doesn't fit her role, let alone the role of the light-Jedi (or even Grey).

Doesn't help that they had Luke turn against the convictions that helped redeem even one of the most dark of Sith Lords, Vader. I get that Disney wanted to release itself from canon burden and are trying to make the movie have wide social appeal, but what they are losing is far greater than what they are gaining.

Mix that with poor release timing and you have a perfect storm for a box office dumb bomb.

The Last Jedi fails in a lot of ways – the ham-fisted social commentary, the nonsensical narrative decisions, what have you – but I personally think its greatest failure was in how little it respects the universe. I'm not a "Not My Luke" purist or anything, but the filmmakers heard the woes over how tied down TFA was by the OT and decided the best course of action was to go in the exact opposite direction. I have two major grievances:

• Luke, obviously. I'm not necessarily against the idea of how they turned him into a cynical asshole, but his actions just straight up don't make sense. Luke is supposed to be a wise Jedi master but he's so ill-disciplined and spontaneous that he'll draw arms against his nephew in his sleep? I was expecting Luke's side of the story to show some tragic misunderstanding in how Ben experienced it, or maybe Ben was lying or something, but no. He was straight up moments away from murdering Ben because he couldn't handle hist teenage angst. We don't even get any flashback scenes attempting to show the progression of how he got to that point, we just have to take Luke at his word that he saw the dark side growing in Ben and that's reason enough to draw a deadly weapon.

• The Force has no rules any more. In the OT, we watch Luke – the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy – go from nothing to lifting some rocks in three movies, and the most we see in the way of long-distance communication by way of the Force is "use the force, Luke." But even that was between Luke and Obi Wan as a Force ghost. Contrast this with the sequels, in which Rey already uses the force about as well as Anakin in RotS, and several characters can project their likeness across the galaxy. In the first six movies, even the most powerful Force users such as the Jedi counsel and the emperor all had to use holograms for this purpose. Kylo and Luke can just straight up project a perfect image of themselves on another planet. Leia, whom we've never seen use the Force before, can now pull herself out of the vacuum of space. Even some random little kid can pull a broom towards himself without even a little training. Contrast some random kid who has never received formal training to the most powerful Jedi in history receiving training from the greatest Jedi master ever. The Force has no weight any more because the barrier for entry has been shattered. There are no limits to what it can and can't do, or who can do what. The Force is whatever the script needs it to be.

TLJ is a terrible movie in its own right, but the reason it's affecting Solo ticket sales is because it betrayed people's confidence in Disney's respect for the universe. Why bother watching more Star Wars movies if Disney has no interest in making true-blue Star Wars movies?

I think the entire "modern era" has huge issues, and the cracks are starting to show in the edifice. In my opinion, there are two major sticking points:

1. No central creator to articulate a vision and push it in a new, fresh direction;
2. A franchise that relies on reminding fans of their childhood instead of offering something new.

The Force Awakens did one thing very well: introduce interesting new characters. When you look back on it, that's it's one central saving grace. It doesn't matter that the movie reset pretty much everything to a ANH status quo (Rebellion! Empire! Death Star! Dark Side bad guy! Heroic Jedi-wannabe!), it did so with a genuine sense of fun and with cool character relationships. It was just plain fun watching old favorites interact with new characters.

I consider Rogue One a glitch in the Matrix. By all accounts it was destined to be a Solo-level, middle-of-the-road Star Wars movie, which perhaps explains that Disney left Edwards enough alone that he told a personal, original story. My guess is, we won't see something akin to Rogue One any time again. Not saying it was perfect, but it was its own movie, with its own story to tell.

Then came The Last Jedi. This was the movie that was supposed to "empirize" the new trilogy. We all knew going in that TFA had relied way too much on old Star Wars tropes, so we hoped TLJ would subvert those and give us something new. In a sense, it did: it gave us meaninglessness. It gave us a script that was more concerned with outsmarting fan speculation than with telling a good, self-contained story. (Who are Rey's parents? NOBODY! Who is Snoke? NO ONE! What will Luke do with the lightsaber? THROW IT AWAY! Etc.) The biggest sin of TLJ for me was offering all these tantalizing new directions (Rey flirting with the Dark Side, the Jedi ending, Rey and Kylo Ren working together) only to end up in a very familiar spot because we don't want to rock the boat TOO much.

TLJ is the culmination of the issues I spoke about above. There's no central vision. There's just the desire to let an intellectual property shamble onward, reminding fans of their childhood.

For all the flaws of the prequels, and I'd consider them much more egregious than the new trilogy, they had a central vision with a creator driving it in new directions. Many of these new directions were flawed and the fans were turned off by them. But they were new.

I think if Solo came out before TLJ, people might have given it a fairer shake. But as it stands, we've already seen the Empire has no clothes. We're getting clued in that Star Wars isn't a story anymore: it's a series of callbacks and familiar visuals, arranged in the approximate shape of a story that won't surprise us too much.

The novelty of familiar faces is gone.

I don't see that changing with the Star Wars IX, either. As long as these movies make money, they'll stick to the formula.

its funny. I know on reddit at least people hated valerian... I loved it.

I enjoyed the film, but didn't like it if that makes sense. I would've preferred different decisions been made on the plot and characters. I wasn't disappointed with Luke or his arc as much though. I suppose in general I feel like all of their decisions could have worked, but not all did (e.g, what happened with Snoke). Felt like they bit off more than they could chew. It would had to have been an absolutely brilliant and meaningful film to succeed at what they tried. It would've been much easier to just make it a normal sequel that explored its predecessor's world.