15 votes

Weekly thread for news/updates/discussion of George Floyd protests, racial injustice, and policing policy - week of July 20

This thread is posted weekly - please try to post relevant content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Especially significant updates may warrant a separate topic, but most should be posted here.

42 comments

  1. [2]
    Autoxidation
    Link
    If you haven't seen the beating of the Navy veteran by the unmarked federal police yet, here's an article about it (paywall): A Navy vet asked federal officers in Portland to remember their oaths....

    If you haven't seen the beating of the Navy veteran by the unmarked federal police yet, here's an article about it (paywall): A Navy vet asked federal officers in Portland to remember their oaths. Then they broke his hand.

    Here it is on video: https://twitter.com/PDXzane/status/1284726088187310080

    16 votes
    1. spit-evil-olive-tips
      Link Parent
      Clip from a video interview with him Seems like a thoroughly chill, humble dude.

      Clip from a video interview with him

      I want to use my 15 minutes to put out a message to my fellow vets

      I also want to use my 15 minutes to try to refocus this whole discussion back to Black Lives Matter, as opposed to an old white guy who got beat up, because I don't think I'm worth the attention, to be perfectly frank

      Seems like a thoroughly chill, humble dude.

      9 votes
  2. [7]
    moonbathers
    Link
    The way everything is going, I've been wondering what to do if the Republicans hang onto power after November/January. With these secret police being used now, I wonder how much more they're going...

    The way everything is going, I've been wondering what to do if the Republicans hang onto power after November/January. With these secret police being used now, I wonder how much more they're going to escalate their crackdown against everyone who isn't them and whether I should get out while I can (once the pandemic has run its course) or stay and fight.

    11 votes
    1. [2]
      pvik
      Link Parent
      I am not an American, but currently reside in the US. I was working towards moving to Canada in 2016, and had started paperwork for PR there (The immigration to Canada I think is a lot more...

      I am not an American, but currently reside in the US.

      I was working towards moving to Canada in 2016, and had started paperwork for PR there (The immigration to Canada I think is a lot more straight-forward than what I have been dealing with in the US. Being able to speak french adds some points if applying to Qubec, too)

      However, I ended up meeting my current SO towards the end of 2016 and I ended up putting those plans on hold. I am glad I met her, however looks like things keep getting worse in this country, when you think it couldn't any more.

      As a non-white person, I am feeling less welcome here every passing day. A few days back I had to take our dog to the Vet (dummy got into the trash). Due to Covid, I dropped our dog at the Vet and was waiting in my car, about 20 mins of me sitting in my car listening to music and replying to some work emails, a cop pulls up behind me, and asks me what I was doing there, checks my license and registration, goes into the Vet's office to verify I was telling the truth and then just leaves. Funny thing, there were 2 or 3 other people waiting in their cars too, who were not questioned. Over the last decade or so of living here, I think I have just gotten used to these kind of incidents, but over the recent years, I have definitely become more aware of it.

      My SO and I have briefly talked about considering moving to Canada in the last few weeks. However, have not had a serious discussion about it yet. Probably in the coming weeks.

      14 votes
      1. moonbathers
        Link Parent
        I'm sorry you had to deal with that. I'm white and have a good job, so I'm pretty high on the privilege scale, but I'm still scared about the way things are going. I've been thinking about going...

        I'm sorry you had to deal with that. I'm white and have a good job, so I'm pretty high on the privilege scale, but I'm still scared about the way things are going. I've been thinking about going to Canada once the border reopens too.

        8 votes
    2. [2]
      vektor
      Link Parent
      What does the US constitution say about that? Did the founding fathers consider the possibility of a president overstaying his welcome? (NB: I'm far removed from the situation, being german) I'm...

      What does the US constitution say about that? Did the founding fathers consider the possibility of a president overstaying his welcome?

      (NB: I'm far removed from the situation, being german) I'm about tired of his shit, so my idea of how to deal with the asshat is a few days of general strikes once he declines to concede (or declares he will not leave office). If that does not change his mind (or change enough minds in the govt to drag him out kicking and screaming), then... oh boy. I mean, I hate to draw parallels to my own country here, but... Any Means Necessary. Literally. Anything is better than a fascist leading the most powerful army of the world. And if you guys want to avoid having to resort to that, you better get ready to organize that strike, like, about now. Because looking at the way the George Floyd protests fade from public view already, you're going to have to act quick. Get everyone out there literally next day. If you can't manage to get everyone striking at once, elites will have an opportunity to intimidate people into not striking.

      But who am I to listen to, I haven't led a peaceful revolution yet.

      4 votes
      1. moonbathers
        Link Parent
        Legally, the presidency transfers at noon on January 20th the year after an election year to whoever won the election, but the legality of things doesn't comfort me at all. There are a few...

        What does the US constitution say about that? Did the founding fathers consider the possibility of a president overstaying his welcome?

        Legally, the presidency transfers at noon on January 20th the year after an election year to whoever won the election, but the legality of things doesn't comfort me at all. There are a few different ways that Republicans could cheat and still legally win the election, and regardless of whether Trump stays in power legally or not, if he's still there after the 20th I worry for the future of the country. I think a general strike would be one of our best options too but I don't know if even that would be enough to get the Republicans to back down. The response to protesting and rioting against police brutality has been more police brutality and I have to imagine they'd spend a long, long time trying to starve out anyone who was striking.

        I've read that 20-26 million have participated in the recent police brutality protests. Assuming all of those people are part of the labor force (they're not), that'd be between 12% and 15% of the workforce striking, which I have to imagine would cripple things. But that would require a sustained, weeks-long commitment and I just don't think that sort of momentum is there right now. As much of a powder keg as things currently are, it doesn't seem to have been enough to get people to push back beyond nightly demonstrations and I'm not sure what it would take to start protests on the level that bring a government down.

        9 votes
    3. [2]
      Kuromantis
      Link Parent
      (Catastrophizing alert) Honestly, the left might need to using the second amendment as the founders intended and embrace a second civil war. Problem is, the last time there were only state...

      “The great strength of the totalitarian (or in this case, so far, illiberal, but who knows) state is that it forces those who fear it to imitate it.”

      -Adolf Hitler

      (Catastrophizing alert)

      Honestly, the left might need to using the second amendment as the founders intended and embrace a second civil war. Problem is, the last time there were only state militias, now there is 'the blob' (and the police), so if people are somehow convinced, it will IMO look way more like the bolshevik revolution, and look at all the area they lost (Poland, Finland, the Baltic states, all reconquere) and the circumstances they rose in, all the blood shed (with the technology of the time) and most obviously, how the Soviet Union weren't a lot, if any better than the Russian empire.

      This woman has a more optimistic take, but it seems most of what she talks about is stuff that happened in middle eastern countries, not the US, so I'm not convinced. This video takes a more 'pragmatic' (i.e realpolitik-ish) view of 'the powers that be', but that obviously leaves no room for any actual growth of liberty.

      1. moonbathers
        Link Parent
        I'm not an expert on this sort of thing but I don't think an armed revolution is the answer. As you note, the new government that comes out of it usually isn't much better than the old one. Arming...

        I'm not an expert on this sort of thing but I don't think an armed revolution is the answer. As you note, the new government that comes out of it usually isn't much better than the old one. Arming yourself comes up in every discussion about this on reddit and I understand why people want to, but I personally cannot for a number of reasons. I think vandalism and breaking stuff might be required, but I don't think a French Revolution-style uprising would go well for anyone. I don't think protesting in the vein of how MLK has been whitewashed is enough either, though. It needs to be sustained and hit the powers that be where it hurts (striking, damaging supply lines, etc).

        4 votes
  3. [4]
    spit-evil-olive-tips
    Link
    A 15 year old Michigan girl is in juvenile detention for not doing her homework (discussed here in last week's weekly thread by @patience_limited and @kfwyre) She had a hearing today...and the...

    A 15 year old Michigan girl is in juvenile detention for not doing her homework (discussed here in last week's weekly thread by @patience_limited and @kfwyre)

    She had a hearing today...and the same judge who originally had her locked up denied her motion for release

    Grace was a high school sophomore in Birmingham Public Schools when she was charged with assault and theft last year, for incidents in which she bit her mother’s finger and pulled her hair and stole another student’s cellphone.

    She was placed on probation in mid-April and, among other requirements, was to complete her schoolwork. Grace, who has ADHD and receives special education services, struggled with the transition to online learning and fell behind when Groves High School stopped in-person learning because of COVID-19. Her probation officer filed a violation against her on May 5, two weeks into the probation.

    The school-to-prison pipeline in action. Charged with assault and theft, put on probation, then sent to juvenile detention for violating the probation.

    On May 14, Brennan found Grace guilty of violating probation for “failure to submit any schoolwork and getting up for school.” She ordered her detained, concluding Grace was a “threat to (the) community” based on the prior charges of assault and theft.

    "Threat to the community", based on...pulling her mother's hair, and stealing another student's cellphone.

    Grace was placed in secure detention at Children’s Village, in suburban Detroit, for about three weeks and then transferred to a residential treatment program within the facility.

    "Children's Village" is a somewhat disturbingly Orwellian name for a juvenile jail.

    The decision to detain Grace came while the state was operating under an order from Gov. Gretchen Whitmer to eliminate any form of detention or residential placement unless a young person posed a “substantial and immediate safety risk to others.”

    This detention was already absurd...but to do it during the pandemic, when there's an explicit order from the governor to avoid locking people up unless absolutely necessary?

    The one tiny possible ray of good news:

    The Michigan Supreme Court’s oversight agency has opened a review of the procedures in the cases.

    In what I'm sure is a complete coincidence (from the original article):

    Grace is Black in a predominantly white community

    And the judge, seen in this latest article, is white.

    9 votes
    1. [2]
      vektor
      Link Parent
      Yeah, normal societies take that name to refer to group homes or foster homes. Granted, the kid is probably no saint. But to incarcerate a kid acting out like that is to admit defeat. "We can not...

      "Children's Village" is a somewhat disturbingly Orwellian name for a juvenile jail.

      Yeah, normal societies take that name to refer to group homes or foster homes.

      Granted, the kid is probably no saint. But to incarcerate a kid acting out like that is to admit defeat. "We can not raise this kid to be a well-adjusted adult, so we will resort to protecting society from them." The correct course of action would be to treat what issues are apparent and investigate to find out whether there are undetected issues. ADHD kid steals someone's phone? Possible bullying comes to mind, as an ADHD patient makes for an opportune target.

      7 votes
      1. Gaywallet
        Link Parent
        It really shows how much the system looks to punish rather than solve. It's not about how to prevent this from happening in the future (or even better yet in the first place) it's about punishing...

        It really shows how much the system looks to punish rather than solve.

        It's not about how to prevent this from happening in the future (or even better yet in the first place) it's about punishing her for what she did.

        What good is locking someone up before they even finish school over relatively minor infractions? Shit if I went to prison for some of the stuff I did while a teenager- yikes...

        5 votes
    2. kfwyre
      Link Parent
      Over two months apart. And not just any two months, these past two months, which have felt for the world like entire years unto themselves. Heartbreaking.

      After the hearing, Grace and her mother, Charisse, embraced for more than a minute, the first time they have had physical contact since May 14 because of COVID-19 restrictions. They sobbed audibly through their masks before leaving the courtroom separately.

      Over two months apart. And not just any two months, these past two months, which have felt for the world like entire years unto themselves. Heartbreaking.

      6 votes
  4. [2]
    Deimos
    Link
    Bellingcat published a long article about the situation in Portland today: What You Need To Know About The Battle of Portland

    Bellingcat published a long article about the situation in Portland today: What You Need To Know About The Battle of Portland

    7 votes
    1. vektor
      Link Parent
      -.- There should be a way to sue the pants off of someone who lies in office like this. He's using that lie to curtail civil liberties. Now, I don't know about you, but a lie is as good an excuse...

      "Two more violent anarchists were arrested, and one was found to be carrying what appears to be a pipe bomb."

      This is certainly very sneaky. By stating it “appears” to be a pipe bomb the statement avoids addressing the fact that no actual pipe bomb has ever been found and no one has been charged for possession of one.

      -.-

      There should be a way to sue the pants off of someone who lies in office like this. He's using that lie to curtail civil liberties. Now, I don't know about you, but a lie is as good an excuse as none at all. How about he apply that law and order mentality to himself, and protect the most important US law and orderly walk to prison?

      8 votes
  5. FishFingus
    Link
    They also tear-gassed Portland's mayor, Ted Wheeler, after he'd been speaking for a few hours at the protests.

    They also tear-gassed Portland's mayor, Ted Wheeler, after he'd been speaking for a few hours at the protests.

    7 votes
    1. spit-evil-olive-tips
      Link Parent
      Two more Seattle PD officers appear to break election law by using non-residential address to vote Under WA state law, this is a violation of RCW 29A.84.130 which is a class C felony, carrying a...

      Two more Seattle PD officers appear to break election law by using non-residential address to vote

      Under WA state law, this is a violation of RCW 29A.84.130 which is a class C felony, carrying a maximum punishment of 5 years in jail and $10,000 fine.

      From 2018: Texas woman with four children gets eight years in jail for voter fraud

      A separate case, from 2020: A Texas appeals court on Thursday upheld a five-year prison sentence for a woman who was convicted of illegally voting even though she didn’t know she was ineligible when she went to the polls in 2016.

      Yet another example of police having a completely different set of laws apply to them than to "normal" citizens. I will eat my hat if any of these officers serves even a single day of jail time.

      3 votes
  6. [17]
    MonkeyPants
    Link
    Videos Show How Federal Officers Escalated Violence in Portland This was posted briefly to hackernews. The comments are disheartening.

    Videos Show How Federal Officers Escalated Violence in Portland

    In just over a week, the chaotic scenes in Portland grabbed the nation’s attention and raised questions about whether the U.S. government is exceeding its authority and violating civil rights. The officers came because of an executive order signed by President Trump in late June to protect federal property from destruction. “If we didn’t take a stand in Portland, you know, we’ve arrested many of these leaders. If we didn’t take that stand, right now you would have a problem like — they were going to lose Portland.”

    The protests against racism and police brutality, which started in May, had largely been peaceful and were held across Portland. But after federal officers arrived in the city on July 4, demonstrations became centered around this U.S. District courthouse and this building housing federal agencies. Both are property of the U.S. government. The buildings have clearly been vandalized, and the Department of Homeland Security has a mandate to protect them. That’s usually done by officers from the Federal Protective Service. But on the ground in Portland, we have seen a new task force, including U.S. Marshals, BORTAC, a unit of Customs and Border Protection, and a special response team from ICE, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency.

    According to a government memo leaked to The Times, these units are insufficiently trained to perform crowd control. But that hasn’t stopped them from trying. Night after night, videos show these officers emerging from the two federal buildings as protesters draw near. Hundreds of videos reviewed by The Times show that although protesters were antagonistic, officers often responded with disproportionate force. They blanketed streets with tear gas. “Are you OK?” They struck protesters with batons, and used flash bangs, pepper balls and other less-lethal munitions to clear the streets.

    Their actions often appeared to escalate rather than de-escalate matters. And in some instances, they attacked when there was no apparent threat. On July 11, protester Donavan La Bella was at the federal courthouse when an officer appears to have fired at his head in retaliation for tossing a spent tear gas canister. La Bella’s mother told local media he suffered skull fractures and needed surgery. Later that night when field medics sought officers’ help for a wounded protester, they were aggressively cleared away. On July 18, a Navy veteran was batoned and pepper-sprayed in another unprovoked attack. His right hand was broken, and he needs surgery. Sometimes members of the press were hit. Photographer Mathieu Lewis Rolland, told The Times that a volley of 10 projectiles were fired into his back. In the middle of all this, protesters were detained in ways that alarmed civil rights advocates and former Homeland Security officials.

    On July 15, several federal officers were filmed driving in unmarked vehicles in the blocks around the courthouse. Federal officers wouldn’t identify themselves but patches on the right and left sides of their uniforms match those used by members of BORTAC, the tactical unit from Customs and Border Protection. They drove the protester away in an unmarked car. D.H.S. says federal officers have made 43 arrests since July 4. Agents do have the authority to make arrests if they believe that a federal crime has been committed, like damaging federal property or attacking officers.

    In recent days, the controversy mobilized a larger and more diverse crowd of protesters. A so-called wall of moms led marches through Portland’s streets and to the federal courthouse where officers cleared them away. The federal presence has also inflamed tensions. Some demonstrators damaged paneling on the courthouse and tried to set them alight. Others threw water bottles and fired fireworks toward the building. On Wednesday, July 22, Portland’s mayor joined the protests and was caught in a cloud of tear gas. “This is a egregious overreaction on the part of the federal officers. This is not a de-escalation strategy. This is flat-out urban warfare.”

    At around the same time, a Customs and Border Protection plane was spotted circling overhead. C.B.P. officials told The Times it was sending a live video feed of the crowd to law enforcement on the ground. Protesters and local officials say this is all a case of federal overreach. Oregon’s attorney general has sued the federal government to stop arresting people. The president has doubled down, promising to send more federal officers to cities governed by his political rivals. “Because we’re not going to let New York and Chicago and Philadelphia, Detroit and Baltimore, and all of these — Oakland is a mess — we’re not going to let this happen in our country. All run by liberal Democrats.” The results could look like a national police force acting under presidential orders, able to ignore local demands and arrest residents. In Portland, it has been a recipe for chaos.

    This was posted briefly to hackernews. The comments are disheartening.

    4 votes
    1. [16]
      skybrian
      Link Parent
      It seems pretty clear that both sides are escalating. Of course the federal officers don't have to be there (that's Trump's fault entirely), but the protestors could also hold a rally somewhere...

      It seems pretty clear that both sides are escalating. Of course the federal officers don't have to be there (that's Trump's fault entirely), but the protestors could also hold a rally somewhere else in Portland, if they wanted to. They are choosing this. People going to the courthouse are looking for a confrontation, because they want one. I guess, having been provoked, they think of it as their duty?

      1 vote
      1. [9]
        MonkeyPants
        Link Parent
        Trump is deliberately being tone deaf. The government is responding to protests against police brutality with disproportionate force. The only way for the public to demand change is either at the...

        Trump is deliberately being tone deaf. The government is responding to protests against police brutality with disproportionate force.

        The only way for the public to demand change is either at the polls or through peaceful protest. The only remedy to US wide police brutality would be federal in nature. If you are in Portland, where else would you protest?

        I know protests haven't exactly been peaceful. But they are largely peaceful. Let's say there are a few bad apples. Sometimes they get handed over by protestors. Sometimes they get arrested by police. The fundamental issue is there is no mechanism to remove the bad apples that obviously exist on the police force.

        The government basically has two options, the first is to change they way police brutality is investigated and prosecuted, the second is to suppress the protests. Except the second option is making things worse. I don't see this ending well.

        Obviously that is what Trump wants, to distract from his disastrous COVID response. It's interesting that he is both distracting us with police brutality at the same time he is actually taking COVID seriously for the first time in six months.

        3 votes
        1. [6]
          skybrian
          Link Parent
          I think you've gotten it backwards. If there are problems in the Portland police department (and let's assume there are) then confronting federal officers is a distraction from that. It's taking...

          The only remedy to US wide police brutality would be federal in nature.

          I think you've gotten it backwards. If there are problems in the Portland police department (and let's assume there are) then confronting federal officers is a distraction from that. It's taking the focus off the Portland police.

          2 votes
          1. [5]
            MonkeyPants
            Link Parent
            The Portland protests are national in nature. Let's assume there are problems with every American police force, as well as federal officers. That there is no independent review of police violence....

            The Portland protests are national in nature. Let's assume there are problems with every American police force, as well as federal officers. That there is no independent review of police violence. That there is not even mandated reporting of police shootings. That there is unnecessary police brutality. That there is a system where police rarely face consequences. If you make that assumption, then is confronting federal officers a distraction?

            As to if that first original assumption is true, you have to ask yourself. Nationally, have American police been attacking American press, medics, non-violent protestors and handcuffed people under arrest? If you know so, how would you feel if Chinese police started using non lethal means to violently attack the press, medics and non-violent protestors? What would the reaction be if a Chinese law enforcement officer deliberately launched a smoke grenade at the face of an American press person who was lawfully following all orders except perhaps the order to disperse?

            2 votes
            1. [4]
              skybrian
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              Although there are many things that could be done by the federal government to encourage change at the local level, I don't think there is anything inherently federal about it. Communities can...

              Although there are many things that could be done by the federal government to encourage change at the local level, I don't think there is anything inherently federal about it. Communities can make local changes to how law enforcement is done, based on what makes sense for that community. Other communities can learn from them.

              Turning this into a general confrontation seems pretty far removed from either justice or problem-solving. It's more along the lines of the justifications people make for unfocused lashing out in anger or going to war.

              1 vote
              1. [3]
                MonkeyPants
                Link Parent
                If the problem is federal (prevalent across 95%+ of the country) why shouldn't the solution be mandated federally? Clearly there is not much political will to upset the powerful police union at a...

                If the problem is federal (prevalent across 95%+ of the country) why shouldn't the solution be mandated federally?

                Clearly there is not much political will to upset the powerful police union at a local level.

                1. [2]
                  skybrian
                  Link Parent
                  One advantage of acting locally is that you don't have to wait until next year to get started, at least in places with Democrat-controlled governments. Starting local has worked pretty well for...

                  One advantage of acting locally is that you don't have to wait until next year to get started, at least in places with Democrat-controlled governments. Starting local has worked pretty well for many other issues.

                  It's still pretty difficult, but going through Congress is unlikely to make anything easier?

                  But next year, the best tactics might be different.

                  3 votes
                  1. MonkeyPants
                    Link Parent
                    Yes

                    Yes

                    Obama-era consent decrees are still underway in about 20 cities, making them the dominant police reform effort in the nation.

                    2 votes
        2. [2]
          Kuromantis
          Link Parent
          Really? Ain't seen it.

          he is actually taking COVID seriously for the first time in six months.

          Really? Ain't seen it.

          1. MonkeyPants
            Link Parent
            Well, he is now in favor of masks. And admitted the problem isn't magically going away. Now that I type it all out, it does sound incredibly lame.

            Well, he is now in favor of masks. And admitted the problem isn't magically going away. Now that I type it all out, it does sound incredibly lame.

            4 votes
      2. [6]
        Gaywallet
        Link Parent
        Just protest somewhere else??? They are protesting where it actually matters. I can hold a protest inside my home, but if no one can see it, what's the point? They are protesting precisely where...

        Just protest somewhere else??? They are protesting where it actually matters. I can hold a protest inside my home, but if no one can see it, what's the point?

        They are protesting precisely where they need to be protesting and the location of their protest has absolutely nothing to do with the Portland police's desire to beat up anyone who they want to beat up or are told to beat up.

        Both sides absolutely are not escalating, one side is escalating (the police, if it wasn't insanely obvious at this point) and the other is doing their best to prevent the unnecessary and unwarranted injury, maiming, and death of their own. They shouldn't have to be worried for their life when they are peacefully protesting.

        3 votes
        1. [5]
          skybrian
          Link Parent
          There are many ways to get media attention, confronting federal officers is only one way of doing that, and it distracts from problems with local police. If your problems are with local police,...

          There are many ways to get media attention, confronting federal officers is only one way of doing that, and it distracts from problems with local police. If your problems are with local police, it's going off-topic.

          1. [4]
            Gaywallet
            Link Parent
            Many people have problems with the entire establishment of police - federal, local, or any other form of policing. Furthermore the simple fact that the local government was willing to accept...

            Many people have problems with the entire establishment of police - federal, local, or any other form of policing. Furthermore the simple fact that the local government was willing to accept federal officers in order to support their local policing makes drawing any distinction pointless.

            4 votes
            1. [3]
              skybrian
              Link Parent
              Yes, people do think that, but when they do, they are escalating the conflict, which is only helpful if you're looking for conflict. It's sort of like deciding that government is the problem, all...

              Yes, people do think that, but when they do, they are escalating the conflict, which is only helpful if you're looking for conflict. It's sort of like deciding that government is the problem, all government bureaucrats are bad, and lashing in out in anger at any government official you see.

              Both justice and problem-solving require making distinctions. You need to break things down and gain consensus for smaller steps that are solvable.

              2 votes
              1. [2]
                Gaywallet
                Link Parent
                They are absolutely not escalating the conflict, the government is by using chemical warfare and brutal tactics to beat peaceful civilians into submission rather than peacefully listening to them...

                they are escalating the conflict

                They are absolutely not escalating the conflict, the government is by using chemical warfare and brutal tactics to beat peaceful civilians into submission rather than peacefully listening to them and trying to come to a reasonable solution.

                You need to break things down and gain consensus for smaller steps that are solvable.

                Absolutely, and breaking bones is not working towards consensus. There is bad faith on the side of the police and government right now and it's entirely unfair to blame civilians for the shitty actions of the government or for responding to said shitty actions when said actions involve maiming and killing civilians for no good reason.

                2 votes
                1. skybrian
                  Link Parent
                  It very much depends on the situation. I don't at all blame bystanders who get caught up in a conflict. Also, when people are holding a peaceful rally and the police show up (as is likely), things...

                  It very much depends on the situation. I don't at all blame bystanders who get caught up in a conflict. Also, when people are holding a peaceful rally and the police show up (as is likely), things can escalate pretty quickly if it's handled the wrong way.

                  But then, when you have federal officers defending a courthouse, and people are going there every night to try to get past their defenses, it seems pretty clear that the protesters are helping to create a conflict in that location. This isn't to say the Trump isn't also escalating, but if one side stays away then there's no conflict.

                  This is what I mean by drawing distinctions. Though, I'm still talking in the abstract. With more specifics, we can make more distinctions.

                  1 vote
  7. Omnicrola
    Link
    Derek Chauvin has been charged with 9 counts of felony tax evasion

    Derek Chauvin has been charged with 9 counts of felony tax evasion

    The Washington County prosecutor's office announced Wednesday that Chauvin and his wife, Kellie May Chauvin, face charges of underreporting their joint income from 2014 through 2019 by $464,433, including more than $95,000 that Derek Chauvin earned from off-duty security work.

    3 votes
  8. Kuromantis
    Link
    The Atlantic starts covering the Portland detainments/abductions/????????¿????¿?¿?? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH-: Nothing can justify the attack on Portland President Trump is cobbling together...

    The Atlantic starts covering the Portland detainments/abductions/????????¿????¿?¿?? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH-:

    Nothing can justify the attack on Portland

    President Trump is cobbling together something the United States has never had before—a national police force, used to quell protests.

    For decades, conservative activists and leaders have warned that “jackbooted thugs” from the federal government were going to come to take away Americans’ civil rights with no due process and no recourse. Now they’re here—but they’re deployed by a staunchly right-wing president with strong conservative support.

    In Portland, Oregon, federal agents in military fatigues have for several days been patrolling the streets amid ongoing protests about police brutality. These forces, employed by the Department of Homeland Security, have snatched people off the streets of the city, refused to identify themselves, and detained people without charges. Ostensibly, they are present to protect federal buildings from protesters. In practice, they seem to be acting on a much wider mandate, either to suppress protests or (more cynically) to provoke confrontation on behalf of a flailing White House that sees it as electorally beneficial.

    Federal officials have insisted these forces are necessary to stop “anarchy” (President Trump’s word). But local officials, including the mayor of Portland and Governor Kate Brown, have criticized their presence and asked, in vain, for them to leave, saying they are causing more trouble than they prevent. (As the local press notes, the idea that the city is consumed by chaos is ridiculous, though there has been some vandalism.)

    2 votes
  9. ReapersGale
    Link
    Australia’s Coon cheese to change name in effort to help ‘eliminate racism' Seen a bunch of folk up in arms about this one which even from a logical standpoint is fucking stupid; A majority...

    Australia’s Coon cheese to change name in effort to help ‘eliminate racism'

    Seen a bunch of folk up in arms about this one which even from a logical standpoint is fucking stupid; A majority Canadian owned company is taking an American's name off of it's product and some are trying to push an "Anti-Australian" narrative.

    2 votes
  10. skybrian
    Link
    Oakland protesters set fire to courthouse, smash windows

    Oakland protesters set fire to courthouse, smash windows

    A protest in Oakland, California, in support of racial justice and police reform turned violent when a small group of demonstrators wearing helmets and goggles and carrying large signs that doubled as shields set fire to a courthouse, vandalized a police station and shot fireworks at officers, authorities said.

    About 700 demonstrators participated in what started as a peaceful march Saturday night but then some broke from the larger group and smashed windows, spray-painted graffiti and pointed lasers at officers, said Officer Johnna Watson, an Oakland Police Department spokesperson.

    Several fires were set in the downtown area, including one at the Alameda County Superior Courthouse that was quickly contained. Demonstrators hurled rocks, ceramic paint-filled balls and frozen water bottles through windows at the courthouse, federal building and police building in a raucous night that was unlike peaceful marches that have taken place in the city in recent weeks, Watson said.

    “This was different,” Watson said. “This group of protesters had specific intentions to participate in one way or another — whether that’s carrying backpacks in with clearly very heavy items, and the smaller group would actually be engaged in doing the damage — there is a nexus with all of the attendees.”

    Police made several arrests but did not provide details. There were no immediate reports of injuries to protesters or officers or immediate cost estimates of the vandalism, Watson said.