If he truly will take a stab at the military spending to improve 'government efficiency', that's a pretty solid thumbs up. I just don't hope it gives him the idea to make his own fighter jets but...
If he truly will take a stab at the military spending to improve 'government efficiency', that's a pretty solid thumbs up.
I just don't hope it gives him the idea to make his own fighter jets but cheaper (like SpaceX and Tesla before it). The man is an opportunist so I wouldn't put it past him. Question in that case, is it allowed to run a business as a government official. Which would put the US more in line with say, South Korea where the government IS ran by big corp.
EDIT: It'll probably be called DefenseX since I wouldn't put it past him to have sex at the end of every company name he owns.
If he'd truly take a stab at military spending he wouldn't look at actually well performing 5th generation fighters but rather the obscene material expenditure or elsewhere. This is just...
If he'd truly take a stab at military spending he wouldn't look at actually well performing 5th generation fighters but rather the obscene material expenditure or elsewhere. This is just unnecessary FUD in a time of instability where projecting power is important again.
Right. The wasteful spending is already fucking spent lol. If we killed the F35 now, it would have all gone to waste. And this isn't sunk cost fallacy where we're trying to dig ourself out of a...
Right. The wasteful spending is already fucking spent lol. If we killed the F35 now, it would have all gone to waste. And this isn't sunk cost fallacy where we're trying to dig ourself out of a pit. We're out of the pit. Development was wrought with delays, cost overruns, and waste. But those days are over. The planes are good now. Screeching about the F-35 program is just loser-grade populist low-hanging fruit based on decade-old news headlines that idiots might still remember. It is not the path to effectively trimming our military budget.
Right. There's a lot of waste in the DoD budget, as far as I'm aware. But getting to it requires a gentler touch that looking at the latest procurement project (that is being bought at more...
Right. There's a lot of waste in the DoD budget, as far as I'm aware. But getting to it requires a gentler touch that looking at the latest procurement project (that is being bought at more expensive rates by export customers abroad, ffs) and question that.
I see two ways of saving money that the DoD doesn't automatically do all by itself already:
(1) Re-evaluating whether certain capabilities the DoD targets are actually necessary. Do you want to deter China? Probably. Do you want to be able to do it without your allies, while also being capable of roflstomping Russia? Probably not. The reality is more detailed than that, because there's shades of gray and also because a capability you don't think you need is also essential for a contingency you're not even thinking of right now. But it's not hard to argue that the US military is trying to do too much at the same time.
(2) Make internal processes leaner. Basically, if you can make sure that less red tape and paperpushing happens before you arrive at the same outcome, do it. This is so mindnumbingly boring, I'm sure Musk isn't even thinking of it. And no, you can't just gut entire processes outright because you don't like them. Somewhere, a decade or maybe a century ago, a procurement project went way over budget because this process didn't exist. Find the problem the process intends to solve, check if the cost/benefit is there, see if you can reduce the cost without reintroducing the problem.
But nahh, X-Man probably simply wants to get into the defense space, because at this point where else can he make enough money to become a billionaire? Ohh, Tesla should upgrade all the DoD's guns with coil guns. You could call them Tesla Coils. That sounds like a trillion dollar idea to me, if the US govt is corrupt enough to play ball.... wait a sec...
Yeah, unfortunately, there's really not a whole lot we can do to easily cut the military budget based on what we ask it to do. Politically, the commander in chief likes being able to park carriers...
Yeah, unfortunately, there's really not a whole lot we can do to easily cut the military budget based on what we ask it to do. Politically, the commander in chief likes being able to park carriers off the coast of multiple conflict areas at once for some good old fashioned gunship diplomacy. You can't do that and fight a war at the same time and provide assurance of defending the homeland without an absolutely massive military budget.
Like it or not, much of the political, economic, and cultural strength of the US comes from the strength of its military, and having a military that powerful comes with a huge price tag, that "get rid of the f35" won't even begin to impact significantly.
This is another point that I think often goes underappreciated, particularly within the US. I meant to at least allude to it, but it certainly deserves explicit pointing out. The US is where it is...
much of the political, economic, and cultural strength of the US comes from the strength of its military
This is another point that I think often goes underappreciated, particularly within the US. I meant to at least allude to it, but it certainly deserves explicit pointing out. The US is where it is in the world, and its people are where they are economically, not in spite of the US military, but because of it. To a substantial extent anyway.
Topologically, the diplomatic shape of the democratic world might as well be a star, with the US at the center: Many countries have very loose connections among each other, but most have close connections to the US, be it for trade, security guarantees, or what have you. That's not a coincidence.
I think part of the problem is that he's targeting people like me, whom only remember the F-35 as "that jet that's taking waaayyy too long to develop and it's predecessor is still good enough that...
I think part of the problem is that he's targeting people like me, whom only remember the F-35 as "that jet that's taking waaayyy too long to develop and it's predecessor is still good enough that the costs aren't justified," as once it fell out of the news cycle I didn't think about it until today.
It's been operational for quite some time, and is the most capable multirole combat aircraft ever built. Musk has no experience in defense whatsoever, and is just repeating things popular...
It's been operational for quite some time, and is the most capable multirole combat aircraft ever built. Musk has no experience in defense whatsoever, and is just repeating things popular (uninformed) military articles were saying five years ago.
His idea of replacing all combat aircraft with drones any time within the next 20 years is just complete fantasy, and people using Ukraine as an example of how modern combat works are completely leaving out the point that both countries are broke and at their absolutely military industrial limit. A war between the US and China would look far different than Ukraine does.
Musk is, as usual, pretending to be an expert on something he hasn't got the first clue about, and relying on his army of midwit fanboys to elevate his wild guess opinion to the standard of "fact'.
They've been in service arguably since at least 2016 and combat since 2018? They're not some secret aircraft, they have a documented performance, and a shitload of potential orders being filled by...
They've been in service arguably since at least 2016 and combat since 2018? They're not some secret aircraft, they have a documented performance, and a shitload of potential orders being filled by basically all of NATO.
This page has an extensive explanation of the parallels DOGE might have to previous groups like it. It also goes into funding, what other structures it might take, how group members might be...
This page has an extensive explanation of the parallels DOGE might have to previous groups like it. It also goes into funding, what other structures it might take, how group members might be vetted, and what DOGE will be looking into.
I wouldn’t claim to have cleared it up, I’m not sure I have it right. But also, it doesn’t seem like anyone actually knows at this point. However, I’m skeptical that Musk wants his communications...
I wouldn’t claim to have cleared it up, I’m not sure I have it right. But also, it doesn’t seem like anyone actually knows at this point.
However, I’m skeptical that Musk wants his communications to be subject to FOIA requests and government archiving laws. Much better to just be an advisor/consultant with absolutely no skin in the game, or the restrictions of an actual employee. Just throw money around and tell the government what to do.
<noise> We’re well past the point of there clearly being conflicts of interest anyway, so I don’t think the distinction makes a meaningful difference anymore. But it’s good to know nonetheless.
<noise>
We’re well past the point of there clearly being conflicts of interest anyway, so I don’t think the distinction makes a meaningful difference anymore. But it’s good to know nonetheless.
I’m sure the military is very wasteful. But I don’t trust Musk in the slightest. It’s probably reasonable to assume he’s just trying to destabilize and weaken the United States military and the...
I’m sure the military is very wasteful. But I don’t trust Musk in the slightest. It’s probably reasonable to assume he’s just trying to destabilize and weaken the United States military and the country in general. Maybe to pick up the scraps, Great Depression - style. Maybe at the instruction of a foreign power. Many of the actions of Trump and his oligarchs appear to be exactly this.
F-35 uses about 5000 pounds of fuel per hour[0], which is roughly 1000 pounds less than a typical transcontinental 737 will use[1]. Sure, a huge waste if we only had good options to both of these...
F-35 uses about 5000 pounds of fuel per hour[0], which is roughly 1000 pounds less than a typical transcontinental 737 will use[1]. Sure, a huge waste if we only had good options to both of these things (like not waging war ffs), but we do not.
If he truly will take a stab at the military spending to improve 'government efficiency', that's a pretty solid thumbs up.
I just don't hope it gives him the idea to make his own fighter jets but cheaper (like SpaceX and Tesla before it). The man is an opportunist so I wouldn't put it past him. Question in that case, is it allowed to run a business as a government official. Which would put the US more in line with say, South Korea where the government IS ran by big corp.
EDIT: It'll probably be called DefenseX since I wouldn't put it past him to have sex at the end of every company name he owns.
If he'd truly take a stab at military spending he wouldn't look at actually well performing 5th generation fighters but rather the obscene material expenditure or elsewhere. This is just unnecessary FUD in a time of instability where projecting power is important again.
Seriously the f35 is one of the few things going well finally and that’s what you want to nuke?
Right. The wasteful spending is already fucking spent lol. If we killed the F35 now, it would have all gone to waste. And this isn't sunk cost fallacy where we're trying to dig ourself out of a pit. We're out of the pit. Development was wrought with delays, cost overruns, and waste. But those days are over. The planes are good now. Screeching about the F-35 program is just loser-grade populist low-hanging fruit based on decade-old news headlines that idiots might still remember. It is not the path to effectively trimming our military budget.
Right. There's a lot of waste in the DoD budget, as far as I'm aware. But getting to it requires a gentler touch that looking at the latest procurement project (that is being bought at more expensive rates by export customers abroad, ffs) and question that.
I see two ways of saving money that the DoD doesn't automatically do all by itself already:
(1) Re-evaluating whether certain capabilities the DoD targets are actually necessary. Do you want to deter China? Probably. Do you want to be able to do it without your allies, while also being capable of roflstomping Russia? Probably not. The reality is more detailed than that, because there's shades of gray and also because a capability you don't think you need is also essential for a contingency you're not even thinking of right now. But it's not hard to argue that the US military is trying to do too much at the same time.
(2) Make internal processes leaner. Basically, if you can make sure that less red tape and paperpushing happens before you arrive at the same outcome, do it. This is so mindnumbingly boring, I'm sure Musk isn't even thinking of it. And no, you can't just gut entire processes outright because you don't like them. Somewhere, a decade or maybe a century ago, a procurement project went way over budget because this process didn't exist. Find the problem the process intends to solve, check if the cost/benefit is there, see if you can reduce the cost without reintroducing the problem.
But nahh, X-Man probably simply wants to get into the defense space, because at this point where else can he make enough money to become a billionaire? Ohh, Tesla should upgrade all the DoD's guns with coil guns. You could call them Tesla Coils. That sounds like a trillion dollar idea to me, if the US govt is corrupt enough to play ball.... wait a sec...
Yeah, unfortunately, there's really not a whole lot we can do to easily cut the military budget based on what we ask it to do. Politically, the commander in chief likes being able to park carriers off the coast of multiple conflict areas at once for some good old fashioned gunship diplomacy. You can't do that and fight a war at the same time and provide assurance of defending the homeland without an absolutely massive military budget.
Like it or not, much of the political, economic, and cultural strength of the US comes from the strength of its military, and having a military that powerful comes with a huge price tag, that "get rid of the f35" won't even begin to impact significantly.
This is another point that I think often goes underappreciated, particularly within the US. I meant to at least allude to it, but it certainly deserves explicit pointing out. The US is where it is in the world, and its people are where they are economically, not in spite of the US military, but because of it. To a substantial extent anyway.
Topologically, the diplomatic shape of the democratic world might as well be a star, with the US at the center: Many countries have very loose connections among each other, but most have close connections to the US, be it for trade, security guarantees, or what have you. That's not a coincidence.
I think part of the problem is that he's targeting people like me, whom only remember the F-35 as "that jet that's taking waaayyy too long to develop and it's predecessor is still good enough that the costs aren't justified," as once it fell out of the news cycle I didn't think about it until today.
It's been operational for quite some time, and is the most capable multirole combat aircraft ever built. Musk has no experience in defense whatsoever, and is just repeating things popular (uninformed) military articles were saying five years ago.
His idea of replacing all combat aircraft with drones any time within the next 20 years is just complete fantasy, and people using Ukraine as an example of how modern combat works are completely leaving out the point that both countries are broke and at their absolutely military industrial limit. A war between the US and China would look far different than Ukraine does.
Musk is, as usual, pretending to be an expert on something he hasn't got the first clue about, and relying on his army of midwit fanboys to elevate his wild guess opinion to the standard of "fact'.
You have reliable information about those f35s? What does “well performing” even mean?
They've been in service arguably since at least 2016 and combat since 2018? They're not some secret aircraft, they have a documented performance, and a shitload of potential orders being filled by basically all of NATO.
I was under the impression that Musk would not be a government employee, only an advisor. It’s only a subcommittee, not an actual department.
This page has an extensive explanation of the parallels DOGE might have to previous groups like it. It also goes into funding, what other structures it might take, how group members might be vetted, and what DOGE will be looking into.
gotcha, thank you for clearing that up.
I wouldn’t claim to have cleared it up, I’m not sure I have it right. But also, it doesn’t seem like anyone actually knows at this point.
However, I’m skeptical that Musk wants his communications to be subject to FOIA requests and government archiving laws. Much better to just be an advisor/consultant with absolutely no skin in the game, or the restrictions of an actual employee. Just throw money around and tell the government what to do.
We’re well past the point of there clearly being conflicts of interest anyway, so I don’t think the distinction makes a meaningful difference anymore. But it’s good to know nonetheless.
I’m sure the military is very wasteful. But I don’t trust Musk in the slightest. It’s probably reasonable to assume he’s just trying to destabilize and weaken the United States military and the country in general. Maybe to pick up the scraps, Great Depression - style. Maybe at the instruction of a foreign power. Many of the actions of Trump and his oligarchs appear to be exactly this.
Remember that bag of bushings?
I had to google it but.. yea that is outrageously expensive.
He'd probably just encourage use of tech made by businesses he's friends with, e.g. Anduril's drones
F-35 uses about 5000 pounds of fuel per hour[0], which is roughly 1000 pounds less than a typical transcontinental 737 will use[1]. Sure, a huge waste if we only had good options to both of these things (like not waging war ffs), but we do not.
[0] https://agogs.sk/en/understanding-fuel-consumption-in-modern-military-aviation-a-look-at-the-f-35/
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/17o2dib/comment/k7vpjwe/
I think they were using "fuel" as a verb there rather than actually talking about aviation fuel.
Oops!
I mean, I fully stand by my comment.
Elon Musk is wrong about the F-35 by LazerPig
Archive link: https://archive.is/9ls21
Is there a way to filter words or phrases? Either through the website or the ‘three cheers for tildes’ app.
Beyond sick of hearing about this guy…
Add
elon muskto your tag filters.Thank you so so much
Should this be in ~society ? I mean, fighter jets are planes, but they're not really transport...
I agree, ~society or ~misc would probably fit best