Executive (dys)function flavors?
@RoyalHenOil's comment in another thread got me thinking, and I feel like it might be helpful for me to hear what other Tilderinos have to share about this. I've wondered for years if I might have ADHD. Any time I've looked into it, it never seems like I check enough boxes for that to be an accurate label. But I've also gotten the impression that many psychological things like ADHD might be better understood as a spectrum (or even a region?), so lately I keep coming back to the possibility that I just have some other/related flavor of executive dysfunction. Or maybe I just haven't figured out how to "adult" properly yet for other reasons. I don't know, but it feels like being able to name the way my brain works would help things somehow.
I tried for hours to write up an explanation of my experiences, but I couldn't come up with anything that felt accurate and was a reasonable length, so the five-second version is this: The thing I keep coming across and identifying with is the "hyperfocus mode" that some people report. I enjoy this but also feel like it must have something to do with my struggles in some areas. I can prioritize tasks effectively plenty of the time, but I also can't at other times. If I used an Eisenhower matrix, things in the "important but not urgent" category would mostly be gathering dust (except for ones I happened to focus on). I don't really have any control over the "hyperfocus mode" and its target changes unpredictably.
There's an exhausting amount of nuance I could add to the above. I'd really love to hear from anyone who's had experience with any sort of divergent executive function that doesn't seem to fit into any of the currently available boxes we use to understand these things.
Addendum: I reread RoyalHenOil's comment just now and I think responding to it directly might be easier than writing out my own explanation from scratch, so I'll include that response here for anyone who feels like reading it.
Annotated comment
I'm more the hyperfocusing sort than the easily-distracted sort (I don't really experience boredom or anything resembling internal "chatter" that a lot of people with ADHD describe),
I do identify with this. I think there's some degree of "chatter" for me, though.
but it ultimately amounts to similar behavior: I have a hard time prioritizing.
I guess? Sometimes?
It feels like it should be easy to switch activities, but I just can't. It's like trying to move a paralyzed body part; you're firing all the right neurons, but nothing happens.
I'm not sure if I would describe it this way. This is definitely how it feels when trying to get out of bed if I'm really drowsy, but switching activities mostly doesn't feel like this. It can sometimes though.
When I'm focused on Task A but know I need to switch to Task B, I can't stop thinking about Task A. They're basically intrusive thoughts that aren't under my conscious control. Even if I do successfully pull myself away from Task A, I can barely do Task B because I'm still thinking about Task A — and I'm feeling frazzled the whole time.
Yeah, this is more or less true for me. It is possible for the hyperfocus to switch over to Task B eventually, but I don't feel like I have any control over that.
But if I just give [in] to the hyperfocus and devote myself to Task A until it's complete, I feel great. I'm in the zone. It's better than meditation.
So much yes. It's like the flow state I can get from practicing music, except it's easier to enter and not taxing to maintain.
My hyperfocus can be a good thing. It means that whatever Task A is, I can fully immerse myself in it and do it exceptionally well. (. . .) But I'm useless at anything that resembles multitasking because I end up obsessing over just one of the tasks (even if it's not that complex) and neglecting all the others.
Agree. Some of the best work I've done and most fun I've had has been while hyperfocusing. But when multitasking, I feel almost useless.
I did very well in school and I do very well in the workplace (so long as my supervisors make good use of me)
Same.
but my private life is a completely different matter. I have a hard time maintaining routines and establishing habits. I'm always neglecting the majority of household tasks and my personal needs; if I'm on a vacuuming kick, for example, the floor will be spotless, but everything else will be in shambles because all I can see is the floor.
Yes and no. Some routines/habits stick and others don't. I'm generally fine with chores, though most of them don't happen on a routine, they just get done when they need to get done, I guess.
One of the worst aspects of my hyperfocus is that it feeds into itself. For example, being sleep-deprived makes me far more likely to hyperfocus, and hyperfocusing makes me far more likely to experience insomnia. If I do break out of my hyperfocus tendencies, I can usually only maintain it for a week or so until, inevitably, something throws off the delicate balance.
You know, I don't think this had occurred to me, but that totally seems plausible. At the very least, I do know I end up in feedback loops where hyperfocusing on one thing leads to a new thing to hyperfocus on, so the need for variety that eventually kicks in to break me out is already satisfied by the new thing.
Humans have this little knack for categorizing every object in the knowable universe, including ourselves. They also have a knack for being terrible at it. (This comment seems random, but follow me for a moment.)
Look at vegetables as a category, or fish. Humans saw a bunch of creatures with fins and decided these were all generally the same thing. Taxonomically, the pufferfish and rainbow trout are as far separated as we are from tigers (I think, my biology isn't the greatest), and yet we look at both and go "fish".
I believe when the topic at hand concerns things like ADHD or Neurodivergency, we unfortunately do the same thing. We see behaviors or fins presented by a person and go that's a "fish" without exploring further. Perhaps you do have some flavor of an attention disorder, I couldn't say for sure, but perhaps there are other forces at play in your life which should be explored.
You say you have this "hyperfocus mode", and on other things, you put them off until they become urgent, even if they are important, yes?
Yes. Without the tendency to "over-focus", I'd probably just write this off as procrastination and a lack of self-discipline. And maybe that is all that's going on here. I just wonder because some of the things I've seen people say about ADHD and the like resonate with me.
Not at all, I immediately knew where you were going with this. I think a lot about my/our intense desire to put things in boxes and give everything a label, and I definitely worry that, due to that desire, I'm seeing signs of some kind of executive dysfunction where there aren't any. I guess part of my goal with this post was to get a reality check of sorts. I appreciate you gently pushing back on this.
This is the part that most specifically screams ADHD to me. While executive function difficulties of various kinds are not exclusive to ADHD at all, this describes a trouble controlling attention that is very classic ADHD to me. One famous ADHD researcher refers to the ADHD brain as "a racecar engine with bicycle brakes" in part to emphasize that the issue with ADHD isn't a lack of attention, but struggling to direct and control it.
If you can find an ADHD-aware therapist in your area to look into diagnosis, that's always a great option, but if that's not in the cards for you atm, I recommend Taking Charge of Adult ADHD by Barkley and ADHD 2.0 by Hallowell and Ratey. Both are solid layman's introductions by experts that don't assume you know anything already, correct common misconceptions, and provide practical advice in addition to just theoretical knowledge about what ADHD looks like. They're solid starting points for you to see if something resonates with you.
Yeah it certainly isn't a lack of attention. The fixations usually last for hours or days as long as there's nothing major to interrupt me. Sometimes the "fixation mode" lasts for weeks, though the target usually changes over time.
RE: Therapists: The mental healthcare system in my area is pretty overwhelmed, but I just found out this morning that I'm finally off the waiting list and have an appointment next week. I've been seeing various therapists for other issues for a while, but I'm hoping to have conversations about the topic of this thread with the new person.
Thanks for the book recommendations! Those look very good. Are they ones that have helped you specifically? (I can't remember if I've seen you mention having ADHD here on Tildes or not.)
One I liked for myself but is older now is You Mean I'm Not Lazy Stupid or Crazy?
If you prefer video, I can recommend some creators who do good ADHD tips/education/solutions. Whether you have ADHD or something adjacent or whatever, a lot of tools can be helpful.
My super easy one is a kitchen timer, those little digital plastic ones, and setting a minute timer and tossing it across the room.... Gotta get up. And once you're up, might as well do the thing.
That book looks good too, thanks! The creator recommendations are welcome as well. I've come across plenty of videos related to this before, but mostly never click on them because they tend to give me too much of a "do YOU have ADHD?? Are you SPECIAL and quirky???" vibe. Actual good-quality videos would be nice to see.
Sure thing. I'm coming back from a trip today (such a long day) and am shifting back from Pacific to Central time so probably tomorrow sometime? Please ping me if I forget/get distracted! It will not be a bother
No rush, trips + time changes can definitely be exhausting. Safe travels!
I already had my ADHD diagnosis when my therapist recommended those books, but yeah, they're some of the ones that were the most informative/helpful to me
Got it. I appreciate you passing them along. I'll take a look at my local library network and see if I can get my hands on them.
I think that for general purposes that can be considered more or less correct at least as far as the symptoms go. Specifically, diagnosis often looks at various traits/behaviours to see how high someone scores on them. If a combination of them scores high enough and causes impairment in daily life, that can lead to a formal diagnosis. Which in turn means that not everyone with a diagnosis will have the exact same traits. As, again, it is the combination of symptoms and the fact that the impact on daily life is also taken into account.
In addition to that there are three presentations of ADHD:
The first one is what a lot of people might know as ADD (which is officially not used anymore). While the second and third one are the ones most people are familiar with (as they are more visible) and associate with ADHD. If I had to guess it is also where your remark of not checking enough boxes might come from. Because, looking at your description of hyperfocus and having trouble with starting non urgent tasks I feel like there is a possibility that you might be dealing with the inattentive type. Of course, I am not a professional and this post isn't enough to diagnose you either way, just providing some context here.
What is more important is, are you struggling with the hyper focus and picking up tasks? While you might have wondered if you have ADHD, if it isn't really limiting you in your daily activities it is perfectly okay to leave it at that. Because the label itself, is just a label. What is more important is that a diagnosis, under ideal circumstance, would help you deal with areas where you struggle. Not just with medication, but also sessions with professionals to work on methods that allow you to deal with things in a more structured way. I have written about that in the past if you want to know a bit more.
If you are unsure if it actually is impacting you, I'd say that it wouldn't hurt to seek out a professional (though finding someone who is good can be difficult depending on where you are living in the world).
Thanks for the link to your old comment, I think I remember that thread. I'll take a look at the workbook you mentioned and see if anything resonates.
This is what I was having such a hard time articulating in the OP. I don't know. At the moment, it feels like it might be accurate to say that it's not that I can't interrupt myself and change activities if I need to; I can and do daily. But I'm not going to unless there's something that forces me to switch (e.g. a physical or social hard deadline). And there are certain very specific circumstances where the inertia is completely debilitating even when I overcome it. I have degrees in music (bachelor's in education, master's in conducting), and practicing has always been a mixed bag for me. If I get into a flow state, it's fine and progress occurs. If I don't, I fucking hate it and I'm miserable. For example, one method you commonly have to use in the practice room is simply repeating a section of music over and over again (very intentionally) until you've learned it or fixed the problem. Sometimes this is fine for me; if I can figure out a way to "loop" the section so there's little to no break in between reps, I can do reps forever. Otherwise, every time I stop myself at the end of a rep, it feels like I was riding a bike that suddenly came to a dead stop and threw me over the handlebars into the dirt. I have to pick myself back up, brush off the dirt, reset any bones I dislocated, stand the bike up, climb on, and get up to speed again. And even then it's still hard because part of my brain didn't stop when I crashed and instead continued on down the trail. It takes ages to get anywhere like this.
This isn't always how practicing works for me, but a significant portion of the time, it is. This and other mental and/or physical blocks I encounter have kept me from reaching the level of proficiency I feel I need in order to do my job, and probably played a large role in my worsening depression in recent years and my mostly-settled decision to abandon teaching music. There's a lot more to the job than being able to play your instrument(s), but that's still very important and it honestly feels like my brain is just not well-suited for the work that's required to develop that skill. If that's true, I wish I would have realized it ten years ago.
That got kind of ramble-y and zoomed in on one very specific case, but it's at least more articulate than anything I tried to write for the OP. Thanks for providing a prompt that nudged my thoughts into a somewhat more useful shape.
What you describe after this does mirror some of my own experiences. Only being able to pick up certain things when there is deadlines involved really stands out as something I recognize and something that is very typical for people with ADHD. You might not know if you are struggling specifically with ADHD it is clear enough that you are running into various things. I saw in another comment you are hoping to bring it up with a new therapist which I think is a good idea. Maybe you end up not checking enough boxes, maybe you do in which case you have some options to explore. Bringing it up really can't hurt I figure.
Several other people also have recommended other books. But, what a good therapist can bring to the table is giving you structure and (somewhat ironically) the perceived deadlines on some of the assignments in the book I linked did help me to actually do them. Something I would have struggled with if I had tackled the book alone.
I really do hope you will get the proper support from the new therapist. But if that is not the case and you do decide to get the various books recommended in this thread it might be a good idea to recruit someone near you to help with them. Basically have some to at least "enforce" deadlines.
Yep, this would definitely help. The assignments might still get done at the last minute a lot of the time, but they would actually get done. Any kind of "accountability partner" at all is useful. I rarely go out of my way to set up relationships like that, though, likely due to a fear of disappointing the other person and embarrassing myself. I think I also don't want to burden others with the responsibility of compensating for my inability to function. Which I know isn't the correct way to understand the arrangement, but it's how it feels. I'll need to get over that, I guess.
Thanks for your encouragement!
I have problems with hyperfocus, and also relate to @RoyalHenOil's comment.
I do not think I meet the criteria for either type of ADHD - I do not have issues with either restlessness or being easily distracted. Once my attention is on something I can usually focus on it, but will then often get stuck focusing on it and find it hard to context switch. The task at hand seems the most important thing in the world at the expense of everything else. The hyperfocus is great while it lasts, but then I do more than required on that task and neglect the wider picture including details like needing to eat or sleep.
Similarly to RoyalHenOil, this appeared to serve me well in education and at work, but also caused me to burn out several times. It has been a disaster in my personal life. I am not so bad at chores, but am struggling with fitting everything in. I am increasingly failing to socialise. I am persistently late for events as it was ever so important I finished up whatever I was doing beforehand.
I think this tendency is related to OCD, which I am diagnosed with, treated for, and is under control at least most of the time. The difficulty in switching focus certainly feels similar to other intrusive thoughts, and being stuck worrying about something could be classed a difficulty in changing focus. But hyperfocus itself does not fit into the classic OCD definition as far as I know.
Noticing and accepting this tendency in myself a few years ago helped with my self-hatred, and helped me plan around it, but I don't have good methods to avoid it fully.
Same (I think). This is why I've never felt like I "check enough boxes" and have continued looking for answers elsewhere.
Hmm. That's not a bad way to put it. I have my own variation of the depression/anxiety cocktail and while my intrusive thoughts aren't always very intense, I'm familiar enough with the experience that your comment made me realize that it does feel like a similar mechanism is at work in the hyperfocus case.
Thank you for sharing!
Haha yeah, I'll bet. Those tests should all come with comment boxes next to each question, because I've never met an ND person who didn't feel compelled to explain in detail why they answered the way they did.
Since you said having a name for it would help, and you already have an appointment lined up, I'd suggest getting tested for autism as well. And in the mean time, a question to ponder: how much of your life is manual (as opposed to automatic)?
Autism is another one I've wondered about from time to time, but IMO it's much less likely than something ADHD-adjacent. There's been just enough little things to make me consider it, but overall I don't think it lines up with my experience very well.
As far as manual vs. automatic, do you just mean something like "intentional choices vs. routines/habits"?