Good on GamersNexus to keep doing videos like this. I know some people think they're just drama farming but I honestly think Steve does care intensely about calling out unethical stuff like this...
Good on GamersNexus to keep doing videos like this. I know some people think they're just drama farming but I honestly think Steve does care intensely about calling out unethical stuff like this in the gaming and hardware industry. I know it basically torched his professional and personal relationship with LTT when he did that crusade against them last year, so I'm sure its not always fun to make content like this.
It's also hilariously sad that companies have pushed the "own nothing and like it" motto so hard with subscriptions to everything under the sun that they think they can even get away with this bullshit for things like PCs. Our economy is so deeply screwed when young people are encouraged to rent a fucking COMPUTER if they can't buy one.
Edit: The ad-spots that Steve features in the video are disgusting, I can't believe that these "influencers" can sleep at night the way they're manipulating actual children.
This video got me to sign up for their Patreon. I've been toying with the idea ever since they ran the EK investigation, but this sealed the deal. It's the mental disconnect between getting the...
This video got me to sign up for their Patreon. I've been toying with the idea ever since they ran the EK investigation, but this sealed the deal.
The ad-spots that Steve features in the video are disgusting, I can't believe that these "influencers" can sleep at night the way they're manipulating actual children.
It's the mental disconnect between getting the money from NZXT into your bank account and not seeing the harm done. It's this nebulous link between action and consequence where a lot of good people do bad things.
The ad that said "Just pay for one month and win a Fortnite competition to buy it outright" reminded me of the scams kids would play on each other to get coveted Pokemon cards.
The ad that said "Just pay for one month and win a Fortnite competition to buy it outright" reminded me of the scams kids would play on each other to get coveted Pokemon cards.
Yeah, for some reason it became normal for adults to produce content aimed at children without any further checks and balances. Creators like Logan Paul and MrBeast are very aware of the fact that...
Yeah, for some reason it became normal for adults to produce content aimed at children without any further checks and balances. Creators like Logan Paul and MrBeast are very aware of the fact that the majority of their audience is literal children and optimize their content and the stuff they sell in that direction, and it's just incredibly slimey.
The person who said "pay for a month and win a Fortnite competition" should really take a step back and check themselves. Is that really what you want to do with life?
It’s shocking that anyone would want to do business with Logan Paul after his incident with the suicide victim. It’s a matter of not personally interacting with someone devoid of empathy. He may...
It’s shocking that anyone would want to do business with Logan Paul after his incident with the suicide victim. It’s a matter of not personally interacting with someone devoid of empathy. He may legitimately have antisocial personality disorder. There’s a video where he kicks his own dog off a moving boat for content.
He should not even be a participant in Mr Beast’s videos where he gathers 100 YouTubers. But then MrBeast goes and starts product lines with him.
Paul is so far down the content rabbit hole that anything that gets him clicks (equals fame equals money) is good. I expect one of the harshest mid-life crises possible for that guy, but then...
Paul is so far down the content rabbit hole that anything that gets him clicks (equals fame equals money) is good. I expect one of the harshest mid-life crises possible for that guy, but then again, reality tv has existed for a long time and this is basically its replacement, except it's with real people. There is a whole (very large group) of twitch streamers and youtubers who do basically nothing of value except entertain or chat with people all day.
Then there is the growing genre of investigator youtubers (chiefly Coffeezilla right now, and iDubbbz a long time ago) who go around exposing slimey practices and part of me wonders (probably hopes) if the audience of Beast, Paul and the like grow up and want a more realistic perspective on what they do. The more realistic side knows that whoever grows up on content like this not going to be critically questioning much.
Pure conjecture, but I suspect the misleading or false marketing on NZXT's own webpages was calculated to sufficiently convince most social media advertisers selected for this scheme. For claims...
I can't believe that these "influencers" can sleep at night the way they're manipulating actual children.
It's the mental disconnect between getting the money from NZXT into your bank account and not seeing the harm done.
Pure conjecture, but I suspect the misleading or false marketing on NZXT's own webpages was calculated to sufficiently convince most social media advertisers selected for this scheme.
For claims like "no contract" or "no strings" however, I can't imagine anything other than willful negligence.
It'll depend on the negotiation of the influencer with the advertiser, but usually the influencer writes the ad read and mentions some points or even specific quotes like "no strings" and "no...
It'll depend on the negotiation of the influencer with the advertiser, but usually the influencer writes the ad read and mentions some points or even specific quotes like "no strings" and "no contract" in their ad read as given to them by the advertiser. That's why you saw that pattern among a lot of different influencers.
I feel like this makes for an interesting legal question, honestly. If you’re a company engaging in false marketing/advertising, you’re liable. But what if you’re just spreading the content based...
I feel like this makes for an interesting legal question, honestly.
If you’re a company engaging in false marketing/advertising, you’re liable. But what if you’re just spreading the content based on some remuneration scheme, and someone else wrote it? Are you, the influencer, liable?
There are things that influencers can be liable for themselves even if they're told to do it (such as not disclosing that something is an ad/sponsorship in jurisdictions that require that), but...
There are things that influencers can be liable for themselves even if they're told to do it (such as not disclosing that something is an ad/sponsorship in jurisdictions that require that), but I'm not sure how much of the content of the ad they're responsible for. Probably varies a lot based on the governing law, but I'd love to hear a lawyer's take!
Subscription/BNPL proliferation is where we're seeing the most 'real' economic growth (in the sense that they are actually taking in a lot more money) that isn't looting an existing company,...
It's also hilariously sad that companies have pushed the "own nothing and like it" motto so hard with subscriptions to everything under the sun that they think they can even get away with this bullshit for things like PCs. Our economy is so deeply screwed when young people are encouraged to rent a fucking COMPUTER if they can't buy one.
Subscription/BNPL proliferation is where we're seeing the most 'real' economic growth (in the sense that they are actually taking in a lot more money) that isn't looting an existing company, speculation, or an outright scam. Kinda makes me nervous, honestly. Shades of 2006.
Wholeheartedly agree. Them and PeopleMakeGames do some of the best investigative journalism I've seen in recent years. Glad there are people out there shedding light on scummy practices.
Good on GamersNexus to keep doing videos like this.
Wholeheartedly agree. Them and PeopleMakeGames do some of the best investigative journalism I've seen in recent years. Glad there are people out there shedding light on scummy practices.
My buddy just built a new computer with a bunch of NZXT components in it, but after this I will definitely be recommending everyone who asks me for advice on parts to avoid them entirely from now...
In this video, we investigate NZXT's "Flex" rental PC program and its pre-built rental PCs, including the NZXT Player One, Player One Prime, Player Two, Player Two Prime, Player Three, and Player Three Prime PCs, which regularly bait-and-switch the components under the same name, misrepresent or straight-up lie in marketing, brandish objectively and provably false FPS benchmark numbers, and leverage oppressive terms of service. NZXT jacks up prices and manipulatively calls them a "sale," it has you waive your rights to death or injury claims in relation to its service, and it rips off uninformed consumers beyond anything we've ever seen before.
My buddy just built a new computer with a bunch of NZXT components in it, but after this I will definitely be recommending everyone who asks me for advice on parts to avoid them entirely from now on. This is genuinely scummy and potentially even fraudulent behavior by them.
cc: @creesch, since I know you're big into PC building too and will probably be as shocked by this as I was.
I was always kind of skeptical of them based on just how popular they were among most PC enthusiasts but when my water cooler failed, I figured I'd give one of their coolers a shot. Well, 31 days...
I was always kind of skeptical of them based on just how popular they were among most PC enthusiasts but when my water cooler failed, I figured I'd give one of their coolers a shot. Well, 31 days in, exactly one day after the return period, the pump failed entirely. Obviously with a critical component like this you can't just wait for a replacement, so I purchased an Arctic cooler from a local shop and contacted NZXT for a refund. After about three weeks! of back and forth and escalations, they ultimately refused and would only agree to replace the cooler. Felt really scummy and this all makes sense now.
Now I have an extra cooler I wouldn't even want to give away to somebody. I've thought of Frankensteining it into some other PCs around the house but I guess it'll probably just sit around as an emergency part.
I’m really happy with my Arctic LF2 AIO and my single interaction with customer service for a small issue. Would also recommend them over NZXT even before this fiasco.
I’m really happy with my Arctic LF2 AIO and my single interaction with customer service for a small issue. Would also recommend them over NZXT even before this fiasco.
Well I was an idiot who had a 240mm AIO from Arctic running perfectly fine for six years in an old gaming PC turned homelab server. And also had friends recommend Arctic. But I went with the shit...
Well I was an idiot who had a 240mm AIO from Arctic running perfectly fine for six years in an old gaming PC turned homelab server. And also had friends recommend Arctic. But I went with the shit brand instead like a dummy lol. Guess I'm not totally immune to influencers and mob mentality :/
On the bright side, my temps are 5-10 degrees cooler than the Kraken and other than a little noise at startup, practically whisper quiet.
I recently rebuilt my PC with some of their parts as well. This video makes me regret giving them any money at all. As for their rental program, I can't believe it's even legal. It really does...
I recently rebuilt my PC with some of their parts as well. This video makes me regret giving them any money at all.
As for their rental program, I can't believe it's even legal. It really does prey upon people who aren't well off financially.
GN is killing it, like always. Steve comes off as having a bit of a holier-than-thou attitude, which maybe rubs some folks the wrong way, but he's right. He's earned that attitude. I love how much...
GN is killing it, like always. Steve comes off as having a bit of a holier-than-thou attitude, which maybe rubs some folks the wrong way, but he's right. He's earned that attitude. I love how much they highlight the little piddly deceptions that companies nonchalantly slip into their marketing copy, because that shit infuriates me and most people just roll their eyes when I complain about it lol
Even though I don't game as much as I used to, and I don't have the time to keep up with the latest in tech hardware or the attention span to watch GN's 3-4 half-hour videos every week, I still buy a couple t-shirts from them every year to support their mission. Every consumer industry needs a Gamers Nexus.
Tech Jesus is up there with 2018 iDubbbz, Coffeezilla, FriendlyJordies and Karl Jobst as someone you'd hope doesn't make a video about you. He has uncovered so much shady shit that I'm surprised...
Tech Jesus is up there with 2018 iDubbbz, Coffeezilla, FriendlyJordies and Karl Jobst as someone you'd hope doesn't make a video about you.
He has uncovered so much shady shit that I'm surprised he hasn't been nominated for a Pulitzer Prize yet.
If I understand this correctly, it's similar to "buying" a smartphone from a network provider that has an "upgrade" program. I believe it's Verizon that will let you pay a monthly fee for your...
If I understand this correctly, it's similar to "buying" a smartphone from a network provider that has an "upgrade" program. I believe it's Verizon that will let you pay a monthly fee for your phone (~$20/mo iirc?) and you can upgrade on some regular interval (1 or 2 years?) and continue paying that monthly fee throughout.
I don't immediately find that scummy, unless the terms aren't spelled out in an easy to understand way (which it sounds like NZXT is not doing).
But worse rental programs have existed for ages. I looked up a gaming computer on Rent a Center, and in my area it's $41.99 per week. Yes, this is rent-to-own, but it would take 85 payments which is absolutely absurd.
Verizon doesn't bait and switch the phone model on you after you agree to the contract. Verizon doesn't suddenly start charging you more money mid contract with no warning. Verizon doesn't have...
Verizon doesn't bait and switch the phone model on you after you agree to the contract. Verizon doesn't suddenly start charging you more money mid contract with no warning. Verizon doesn't have extremely predatory terms where you end up paying $15,000 more than the phone is worth. Verizon doesn't have legally unenforceable clauses in their contracts that attempt to negate all their liability for damages, or your right to compensation if they "accidentally" over or double charge you.
Just because other scummy rental programs exist, that doesn't make this one any less scummy. And unlike those other scummy rental programs, NZXT was once a reputable component manufacturer so you would expect better of them, but that's clearly no longer the case.
I would doubt this. Most contracts I've actually read have some unenforceable clauses about taking away your rights to something.
Verizon doesn't have legally unenforceable clauses in their contracts that attempt to negate all their liability for damages, or your right to compensation if they "accidentally" over or double charge you.
I would doubt this. Most contracts I've actually read have some unenforceable clauses about taking away your rights to something.
My "favourite" pastime is reading contracts/TOS/EULAs from US tech companies, but applying what I know about EU/DE Consumer protection law. Sometimes I feel like all that'll be left after a judge...
My "favourite" pastime is reading contracts/TOS/EULAs from US tech companies, but applying what I know about EU/DE Consumer protection law. Sometimes I feel like all that'll be left after a judge went over it would be the definitions.
The consumer protection laws are an underrated benefit of moving from the US to Germany. I didn't know anything about them before I moved here, but damn are they better than back home. The...
The consumer protection laws are an underrated benefit of moving from the US to Germany. I didn't know anything about them before I moved here, but damn are they better than back home. The employee rights are even better, but I knew about those to some extent beforehand.
I am trying to move from the US to France, and those consumer protection laws are part of the reason. Just seeing all tech products have a warranty for 1 year, but 2 years in the EU opened my eyes...
I am trying to move from the US to France, and those consumer protection laws are part of the reason. Just seeing all tech products have a warranty for 1 year, but 2 years in the EU opened my eyes to how good it can be. I often joke with my parents "You may not have heard of it, but we have this thing called consumer protection laws in Europe". It's pretty amazing how much better everything is when companies don't get to do whatever they want.
They may well have some garbage in their contracts, but the 60-day clause in NZXT's contract is definitely not a common thing to find in contracts like this. It's pretty egregious even for this...
They may well have some garbage in their contracts, but the 60-day clause in NZXT's contract is definitely not a common thing to find in contracts like this. It's pretty egregious even for this stuff, and it's not even clear that it's unenforceable (though I hope it would be).
I would recommend paying attention to the charts about how badly this compares with even super predatory rent-to-own schemes or loans, as well as the portion where their lawyer goes through the...
I would recommend paying attention to the charts about how badly this compares with even super predatory rent-to-own schemes or loans, as well as the portion where their lawyer goes through the predatory clauses in the agreement. The changing specs of the offerings is also a key difference from the types of smartphone payment plans you're talking about -- you can guarantee that if you sign up for the plan with a specific phone model, it'll be the same hardware as if you signed up for that same model any other day.
This video dives into NZXT's response to our deep-dive investigation of what we think is a predatory, evil scam for rental computers. NZXT's "Flex" subscription computer program is untenable not just in cost, but in additional requirements. Further, its advertising is now admitted as being incorrect by NZXT itself. We respond to the company's statement, which it took several days to write, calling consumers "confused."
Good on GamersNexus to keep doing videos like this. I know some people think they're just drama farming but I honestly think Steve does care intensely about calling out unethical stuff like this in the gaming and hardware industry. I know it basically torched his professional and personal relationship with LTT when he did that crusade against them last year, so I'm sure its not always fun to make content like this.
It's also hilariously sad that companies have pushed the "own nothing and like it" motto so hard with subscriptions to everything under the sun that they think they can even get away with this bullshit for things like PCs. Our economy is so deeply screwed when young people are encouraged to rent a fucking COMPUTER if they can't buy one.
Edit: The ad-spots that Steve features in the video are disgusting, I can't believe that these "influencers" can sleep at night the way they're manipulating actual children.
This video got me to sign up for their Patreon. I've been toying with the idea ever since they ran the EK investigation, but this sealed the deal.
It's the mental disconnect between getting the money from NZXT into your bank account and not seeing the harm done. It's this nebulous link between action and consequence where a lot of good people do bad things.
The ad that said "Just pay for one month and win a Fortnite competition to buy it outright" reminded me of the scams kids would play on each other to get coveted Pokemon cards.
Yeah, for some reason it became normal for adults to produce content aimed at children without any further checks and balances. Creators like Logan Paul and MrBeast are very aware of the fact that the majority of their audience is literal children and optimize their content and the stuff they sell in that direction, and it's just incredibly slimey.
The person who said "pay for a month and win a Fortnite competition" should really take a step back and check themselves. Is that really what you want to do with life?
It’s shocking that anyone would want to do business with Logan Paul after his incident with the suicide victim. It’s a matter of not personally interacting with someone devoid of empathy. He may legitimately have antisocial personality disorder. There’s a video where he kicks his own dog off a moving boat for content.
He should not even be a participant in Mr Beast’s videos where he gathers 100 YouTubers. But then MrBeast goes and starts product lines with him.
Paul is so far down the content rabbit hole that anything that gets him clicks (equals fame equals money) is good. I expect one of the harshest mid-life crises possible for that guy, but then again, reality tv has existed for a long time and this is basically its replacement, except it's with real people. There is a whole (very large group) of twitch streamers and youtubers who do basically nothing of value except entertain or chat with people all day.
Then there is the growing genre of investigator youtubers (chiefly Coffeezilla right now, and iDubbbz a long time ago) who go around exposing slimey practices and part of me wonders (probably hopes) if the audience of Beast, Paul and the like grow up and want a more realistic perspective on what they do. The more realistic side knows that whoever grows up on content like this not going to be critically questioning much.
I just charged my rich friends like $50 for a holo Charizard. Some may say that was a scam; I just called it business.
Pure conjecture, but I suspect the misleading or false marketing on NZXT's own webpages was calculated to sufficiently convince most social media advertisers selected for this scheme.
For claims like "no contract" or "no strings" however, I can't imagine anything other than willful negligence.
It'll depend on the negotiation of the influencer with the advertiser, but usually the influencer writes the ad read and mentions some points or even specific quotes like "no strings" and "no contract" in their ad read as given to them by the advertiser. That's why you saw that pattern among a lot of different influencers.
I feel like this makes for an interesting legal question, honestly.
If you’re a company engaging in false marketing/advertising, you’re liable. But what if you’re just spreading the content based on some remuneration scheme, and someone else wrote it? Are you, the influencer, liable?
There are things that influencers can be liable for themselves even if they're told to do it (such as not disclosing that something is an ad/sponsorship in jurisdictions that require that), but I'm not sure how much of the content of the ad they're responsible for. Probably varies a lot based on the governing law, but I'd love to hear a lawyer's take!
Subscription/BNPL proliferation is where we're seeing the most 'real' economic growth (in the sense that they are actually taking in a lot more money) that isn't looting an existing company, speculation, or an outright scam. Kinda makes me nervous, honestly. Shades of 2006.
Wholeheartedly agree. Them and PeopleMakeGames do some of the best investigative journalism I've seen in recent years. Glad there are people out there shedding light on scummy practices.
My buddy just built a new computer with a bunch of NZXT components in it, but after this I will definitely be recommending everyone who asks me for advice on parts to avoid them entirely from now on. This is genuinely scummy and potentially even fraudulent behavior by them.
cc: @creesch, since I know you're big into PC building too and will probably be as shocked by this as I was.
I was always kind of skeptical of them based on just how popular they were among most PC enthusiasts but when my water cooler failed, I figured I'd give one of their coolers a shot. Well, 31 days in, exactly one day after the return period, the pump failed entirely. Obviously with a critical component like this you can't just wait for a replacement, so I purchased an Arctic cooler from a local shop and contacted NZXT for a refund. After about three weeks! of back and forth and escalations, they ultimately refused and would only agree to replace the cooler. Felt really scummy and this all makes sense now.
Now I have an extra cooler I wouldn't even want to give away to somebody. I've thought of Frankensteining it into some other PCs around the house but I guess it'll probably just sit around as an emergency part.
I’m really happy with my Arctic LF2 AIO and my single interaction with customer service for a small issue. Would also recommend them over NZXT even before this fiasco.
Well I was an idiot who had a 240mm AIO from Arctic running perfectly fine for six years in an old gaming PC turned homelab server. And also had friends recommend Arctic. But I went with the shit brand instead like a dummy lol. Guess I'm not totally immune to influencers and mob mentality :/
On the bright side, my temps are 5-10 degrees cooler than the Kraken and other than a little noise at startup, practically whisper quiet.
I recently rebuilt my PC with some of their parts as well. This video makes me regret giving them any money at all.
As for their rental program, I can't believe it's even legal. It really does prey upon people who aren't well off financially.
GN is killing it, like always. Steve comes off as having a bit of a holier-than-thou attitude, which maybe rubs some folks the wrong way, but he's right. He's earned that attitude. I love how much they highlight the little piddly deceptions that companies nonchalantly slip into their marketing copy, because that shit infuriates me and most people just roll their eyes when I complain about it lol
Even though I don't game as much as I used to, and I don't have the time to keep up with the latest in tech hardware or the attention span to watch GN's 3-4 half-hour videos every week, I still buy a couple t-shirts from them every year to support their mission. Every consumer industry needs a Gamers Nexus.
It’s crazy. “No contract”?? It’s literally a contract! It’s not puffery at that point. It’s just a lie.
Tech Jesus is up there with 2018 iDubbbz, Coffeezilla, FriendlyJordies and Karl Jobst as someone you'd hope doesn't make a video about you.
He has uncovered so much shady shit that I'm surprised he hasn't been nominated for a Pulitzer Prize yet.
Don't forget hbomberguy in that list.
If I understand this correctly, it's similar to "buying" a smartphone from a network provider that has an "upgrade" program. I believe it's Verizon that will let you pay a monthly fee for your phone (~$20/mo iirc?) and you can upgrade on some regular interval (1 or 2 years?) and continue paying that monthly fee throughout.
I don't immediately find that scummy, unless the terms aren't spelled out in an easy to understand way (which it sounds like NZXT is not doing).
But worse rental programs have existed for ages. I looked up a gaming computer on Rent a Center, and in my area it's $41.99 per week. Yes, this is rent-to-own, but it would take 85 payments which is absolutely absurd.
Verizon doesn't bait and switch the phone model on you after you agree to the contract. Verizon doesn't suddenly start charging you more money mid contract with no warning. Verizon doesn't have extremely predatory terms where you end up paying $15,000 more than the phone is worth. Verizon doesn't have legally unenforceable clauses in their contracts that attempt to negate all their liability for damages, or your right to compensation if they "accidentally" over or double charge you.
Just because other scummy rental programs exist, that doesn't make this one any less scummy. And unlike those other scummy rental programs, NZXT was once a reputable component manufacturer so you would expect better of them, but that's clearly no longer the case.
I would doubt this. Most contracts I've actually read have some unenforceable clauses about taking away your rights to something.
My "favourite" pastime is reading contracts/TOS/EULAs from US tech companies, but applying what I know about EU/DE Consumer protection law. Sometimes I feel like all that'll be left after a judge went over it would be the definitions.
The consumer protection laws are an underrated benefit of moving from the US to Germany. I didn't know anything about them before I moved here, but damn are they better than back home. The employee rights are even better, but I knew about those to some extent beforehand.
I am trying to move from the US to France, and those consumer protection laws are part of the reason. Just seeing all tech products have a warranty for 1 year, but 2 years in the EU opened my eyes to how good it can be. I often joke with my parents "You may not have heard of it, but we have this thing called consumer protection laws in Europe". It's pretty amazing how much better everything is when companies don't get to do whatever they want.
Yeah, European countries are far from perfect in their own myriad ways but on a consumer protection front the difference is extremely stark.
They may well have some garbage in their contracts, but the 60-day clause in NZXT's contract is definitely not a common thing to find in contracts like this. It's pretty egregious even for this stuff, and it's not even clear that it's unenforceable (though I hope it would be).
I would recommend paying attention to the charts about how badly this compares with even super predatory rent-to-own schemes or loans, as well as the portion where their lawyer goes through the predatory clauses in the agreement. The changing specs of the offerings is also a key difference from the types of smartphone payment plans you're talking about -- you can guarantee that if you sign up for the plan with a specific phone model, it'll be the same hardware as if you signed up for that same model any other day.
Update video from Gamers Nexus:
NZXT Says We're "Confused"
p.s. Link to NZXT's statement and the CEO's video:
https://nzxt.com/news/nzxt-update-addressing-your-concerns-about-the-flex-subscription-program
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSp5B--HKL4
And JayzTwoCents' interview with NZXT's CEO:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qqeMWrrxMc