53 votes

Dutch parliament calls for end to dependence on US software companies

20 comments

  1. [5]
    kej
    Link
    A guy I used to work with had a series of posts on Facebook about how Trump was bringing us back to "big stick" diplomacy and how great it was going to be, and I tried to explain how our strength...

    A guy I used to work with had a series of posts on Facebook about how Trump was bringing us back to "big stick" diplomacy and how great it was going to be, and I tried to explain how our strength comes from being dependable and predictable but he was sure that pushing around our friends was going to lead to positive outcomes.

    22 votes
    1. [4]
      chocobean
      Link Parent
      Well, this Canadian is positively livid Maga Americans are having a sort of teenage country moment where they want to do what old pappy did: global domination. Just because they want to go back to...

      Well, this Canadian is positively livid

      Maga Americans are having a sort of teenage country moment where they want to do what old pappy did: global domination. Just because they want to go back to the 1800s doesn't mean others want to go with them

      20 votes
      1. [3]
        BeardyHat
        Link Parent
        I'm just hoping it all comes around to bite them in the ass. Am American and certainly will have some hardships, but I'm excited to see those who thought this was a fantastic idea suffer their own...

        I'm just hoping it all comes around to bite them in the ass.

        Am American and certainly will have some hardships, but I'm excited to see those who thought this was a fantastic idea suffer their own undoing.

        Maybe I'm being too harsh, but I have family members who are this and bitched endlessly about our Democrat leadership through the years, so I'm eager to watch as finances crumble in their twilight years, so I can throw it in their faces.

        I'm tired and have had a few beers at this point, but I'm just fucking sick of their shit. I'll probably feel less vengeful in the morning...

        19 votes
        1. kaffo
          Link Parent
          I had the exact same feeling regarding Brexit when that originally got voted in, way back in 2016. But the sad truth is the choices of the many effect everyone. Come years after the change, the UK...

          I had the exact same feeling regarding Brexit when that originally got voted in, way back in 2016. But the sad truth is the choices of the many effect everyone.
          Come years after the change, the UK is suffering and everyone I know there (family and freinds) are finding it harder and harder. It's quite sad really.
          And sometimes I hear "you know Brexit might have actually been a bad idea" and I want to say "oh really?" but... It's not really funny, it's just depressing.

          8 votes
        2. Sodliddesu
          Link Parent
          I enjoy hearing people say what he "can" and "can't" do, only to mention that he's not allowed to incite an insurrection against the government and either watch the realization roll over them or...

          I enjoy hearing people say what he "can" and "can't" do, only to mention that he's not allowed to incite an insurrection against the government and either watch the realization roll over them or watch them get angry.

          I'm by no means a survivalist but I'm about ready to set rations to meager and press on to Oregon.

          1 vote
  2. Eji1700
    Link
    I wish them luck, sincerely. I also don't expect too much. Maybe i'm overly jaded, but software, still, is evolving. The current cool trend in software is "what if error messages weren't fucking...
    • Exemplary

    I wish them luck, sincerely.

    I also don't expect too much. Maybe i'm overly jaded, but software, still, is evolving.

    The current cool trend in software is "what if error messages weren't fucking awful" or "maybe we should be writing code that lets the compiler catch more things" and that's a hilarious thing when you consider we were sending rockets up in the 60s. (vaaastly over simplifying but going from early Java/VBA to something modern like Rust/F# is a world of difference).

    We're talking an industry that's taken a multi decade dive into nulls, inheritance, and coercion and decided "uhh , oops. This is all mostly terrible and probably shouldn't be used, like ever if you can avoid it".

    Hell THE most popular language in the world is still literally a "ok i know I rushed it out but we'll make it better later" project (and the other most popular language still doesn't have decent typing....).

    And this is just a small subset of all shit that goes into these projects. I could talk all day about SQL and databasing and how weird it is that the tooling is stuck about 2 decades behind everything else, or then get into the wonders of rights management across multiple platforms, and the complete nightmare that basically all networking is, or the abomination that is bluetooth.

    This isn't to say that I don't think a serious country can't make major headway into changing how these kinds of programs are viewed and used. There's a lot of shitty inertia in the tech industry just like anywhere else, but unlike many others you can be cutting edge to out of date in 5 years and then suddenly have "wisely dodged the trend chasing" because you just couldn't get the new rollout out of meeting hell. A country starting from scratch with a "well what do we know now about good practices" approach could probably make serious contenders for a fraction of the cost and upkeep....but that doesn't change the infrastructure and protocol issues.

    So in the end i'm hopeful Europe will make serious headway in all of this, and really shake up the game and stop silicon valley standards (or lack there of) from being the only game in town, but at the same time, I think people are underestimating what a major undertaking such a thing might be. You need a critical mass of users, you need to keep your tech up to date, you need to keep it secure, you need to deal with extra government bureaucracy, and you need to decide if it's worth the cost to keep all this going if in 8 years things look better.

    14 votes
  3. [2]
    riQQ
    Link

    The Netherlands' parliament on Tuesday approved a series of motions calling on the government to reduce dependence on U.S. software companies, including by creating a cloud services platform under Dutch control.

    While such initiatives have foundered in the past due to a lack of viable European alternatives, lawmakers said changing relations with the United States under the presidency of Donald Trump have given the issue fresh urgency.

    20 votes
    1. chocobean
      Link Parent
      Archive https://archive.is/IpN9c Yes yes yes sovereign Cloud! Sovereign social media would be fantastic as well. They're specifically calling out Bezo Zuck Musk and Trum and rightfully so. Whole...

      Archive https://archive.is/IpN9c

      Yes yes yes sovereign Cloud! Sovereign social media would be fantastic as well. They're specifically calling out Bezo Zuck Musk and Trum and rightfully so. Whole nations data in the grasp of oligarchs is bad enough, but if America goes the communist route and strong arm private companies into allegiance to the state it'll be a national security risk.

      10 votes
  4. [5]
    shu
    Link
    I wish the EU would initiate/finance work on an OpenSource Smartphone OS (among a general push for OpenSource Software for governmental and civic use in the EU). That basically the worldwide...

    I wish the EU would initiate/finance work on an OpenSource Smartphone OS (among a general push for OpenSource Software for governmental and civic use in the EU).

    That basically the worldwide mobile communication is in the hands of Apple and Google - without any serious alternative - always seemed completely insane to me.

    10 votes
    1. [2]
      skybrian
      Link Parent
      It seems like something more is needed than funding. After all, Microsoft and Firefox tried and failed.

      It seems like something more is needed than funding. After all, Microsoft and Firefox tried and failed.

      3 votes
      1. shu
        Link Parent
        I'm not sure. Microsoft probably ended its mobile OS because it just wasn't successful and it didn't make sense financially to continue it. And for Mozilla it also didn't pan out, because they...

        I'm not sure. Microsoft probably ended its mobile OS because it just wasn't successful and it didn't make sense financially to continue it. And for Mozilla it also didn't pan out, because they were spread too thin and it wasn't commercially viable to continue development.

        An EU financed mobile OpenSource OS (probably also Linux based) wouldn't necessarily have to be successful and make commercial sense. It just would have to exist and be a real (european) alternative to Android/iOS.

        8 votes
    2. ewintr
      Link Parent
      I am not intimately familiar with the exact projects they fund, but NLnet does some good here. A quick search brought me to this page, for instance: https://nlnet.nl/project/mobile-nixos/...

      I am not intimately familiar with the exact projects they fund, but NLnet does some good here. A quick search brought me to this page, for instance: https://nlnet.nl/project/mobile-nixos/

      Replicant also has some projects funded by them.

      3 votes
    3. KapteinB
      Link Parent
      While not fully open source, there's a Finnish smartphone OS named Sailfish which is very good. Their attempt at a phone flopped, sadly, but the climate has changed a lot since then, so I'd love...

      While not fully open source, there's a Finnish smartphone OS named Sailfish which is very good. Their attempt at a phone flopped, sadly, but the climate has changed a lot since then, so I'd love to see them get funding for a second attempt.

      3 votes
  5. Raspcoffee
    Link
    Saw this yesterday and was pretty relieved that, despite the utter clusterfuck of our current cabinet there is a very broad consensus that digital sovereignty is, in fact, vital for a nation in...

    Saw this yesterday and was pretty relieved that, despite the utter clusterfuck of our current cabinet there is a very broad consensus that digital sovereignty is, in fact, vital for a nation in this century. I get that we don't think of digital infrastructure yet as similar to other infrastructure projects - but it has become just like that. And you don't want to be reliant on other states. Maybe other EU members to some extend if it requires cooperation among other EU-states, but that's about it.

    6 votes
  6. [6]
    RoyalHenOil
    Link
    I wonder what the process looks like for immigrating to Europe as a software developer? This is something my sister is interested in doing, and she is also quite keen to work on meaningful...

    I wonder what the process looks like for immigrating to Europe as a software developer? This is something my sister is interested in doing, and she is also quite keen to work on meaningful projects that don't just line the pockets of the billionaire class.

    4 votes
    1. [2]
      sparksbet
      Link Parent
      The specifics depend on the particular country, but the EU Blue Card is the most common way software devs and other skilled workers get legal residency in the EU (excluding Denmark and Ireland)....

      The specifics depend on the particular country, but the EU Blue Card is the most common way software devs and other skilled workers get legal residency in the EU (excluding Denmark and Ireland). You need to have a binding job offer to get a Blue Card, so the step to take before that is applying to software dev positions in the country where you want to immigrate. How easy that is to do from abroad depends a lot on how in-demand your individual skillset and expertise is. Some EU countries have job-seeking visas available if you can prove you have enough to support yourself for that time period, and that can make the process of applying and doing interviews easier.

      8 votes
      1. RoyalHenOil
        Link Parent
        Thank you for this! I have passed it on to my sister. Once her husband completes his degree in a couple years, they would like to immigrate to either Australia (where I live) or Europe, so now is...

        Thank you for this! I have passed it on to my sister. Once her husband completes his degree in a couple years, they would like to immigrate to either Australia (where I live) or Europe, so now is a good time for them to start hammering out a plan. I suspect they may have better prospects in Europe, based on the way things are going.

        3 votes
    2. [3]
      Toric
      Link Parent
      Software Developer that did exactly that here! Me and my wife moved to Germany about 6 months ago. Id say it heavily depends on her field. Im an Embedded Software Developer, and I didnt have a...

      Software Developer that did exactly that here! Me and my wife moved to Germany about 6 months ago. Id say it heavily depends on her field. Im an Embedded Software Developer, and I didnt have a huge problem landing a job. However, if your sister is in web technologies of any kind, she should be aware that the market is very heavily oversaturated in that area, and especially if she does not have very good proficiency in the local language, she will likely be passed over. The more specialized of a field she is in, the better. Keep in mind, though, my advice is probably only valid for Germany, Europe is hardly a monolith.

      Feel free to reach out if you have more questions, id be happy to help in whatever way I can.

      7 votes
      1. [2]
        RoyalHenOil
        Link Parent
        I am not in this industry at all, so I don't understand the details, but she is a senior software engineer whose experience is primarily in building cloud microservices. I'm not sure if that's the...

        I am not in this industry at all, so I don't understand the details, but she is a senior software engineer whose experience is primarily in building cloud microservices. I'm not sure if that's the sort of thing that could land her a job overseas, but the linked news article sounds like it could be relevant to someone with her skill set?

        2 votes
        1. Toric
          Link Parent
          Her being a senior definitely helps, but her field is currently a bit oversaturated here. Of course, given the subject of the article, and other decisions like it happening across the EU, that may...

          Her being a senior definitely helps, but her field is currently a bit oversaturated here. Of course, given the subject of the article, and other decisions like it happening across the EU, that may change in time.

          2 votes